Difference between revisions of "Suggestions:Skills"

Revision as of 05:01, 27 August 2006

Suggestions

Items | Skills | Classes | Game mechanics | Miscellaneous

Skill suggestions are made here. See Suggestions for a list of other suggestion categories.

Suggestions for Shartak are not often implemented but are always welcome. Comments on and improvements to existing suggestions are appreciated. Please don't remove suggestions you don't like.

Before adding a suggestion, please take the time to view the guidelines for advice on what suggestions are feasable, and please check existing suggestions to ensure that yours (or a very similar one) has not already been made. Please add new suggestions to the bottom of the page.

Implemented suggestions are moved to Suggestions:Implemented. Bug reports should be added to the Bugs page.

Example

To use the template, enter the following at the bottom of the page, but replace emboldened text with text appropriate to your suggestion:

===Suggestion Name===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill, balance change, improvement, etc|
suggest_scope=Who or what it applies to|
suggest_description=Full description. Check spelling and be descriptive.|
suggest_time=~~~~~|
suggest_author=~~~|
suggest_comments=
<!-- COMMENT **BELOW** THIS LINE - DO NOT DELETE THIS LINE -->
Comment here
<!-- COMMENT **ABOVE** THIS LINE - DO NOT DELETE THIS LINE -->
}}

Skills

Planting/agriculture

Both outsiders and natives with this skill should be able to plant trees (mango, banana) on fertile land. By clearing away jungle, and applying an example of the fruit of the tree you wish to plant, you could sow the seed. A tree of that type would then sprout X days later. This would open up for plantation, and help feed the villages/settlements. --DKChannelboredom (2 March)

Comments

Interesting idea, perhaps only a chance that a tree will grow, and to ensure a tree grows you have to plant a certain number of fruit of the same kind on the same block. Of course, does this mean that existing trees should occasionally die off, say if they get surrounded by 8 blocks of highest density jungle and the tree block is also highest density jungle.. maybe explained as something to do with lack of sunlight reaching the tree because of the amount of jungle around it. --Simon 09:47, 2 March 2006 (GMT)

Why not treat existing trees and planted trees separately? My initial thought is that if I did not have this skill, I would still like the opportunity to gather resources from a dependable source. --Lint 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

Weapon Skills

The Warrior/Soldiers class should get weapon skills, like spear skills for the warrior and rifle skills for the soldier, make the soldiers skills make the rifle have better to hit then the natives spear but the rifle requires the searching of ammo, this makes the difference between natives and outsiders warrior classes more than the blowpipe and rifle (blowpipes do 1 less damage) EDIT: I ahnotice that the outsiders do indeed have rifle training, freshly added to the wiki I guess.-- Daylan 11:07, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

Comments

We have been doing some research(see the talk page in character classes) and it appears that warriors are no better at fighting(unless you count 10 extra hp as being really great) than any other class, correct me if I'm wrong but if there is no warrior only fighting skill what makes them warriors and not shamans w/ blowpipes(pardon the pun but they "blow") and +10hp? and if that is all they are how come soilders get extra skills? -- Daylan 02:55, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

Also, if you've got a machete and the three melee skills, there's never any point in using a blowpipe (unless you've got 1AP left and a victim with only 4HP remaining). There should be a skill that increases the chances of hitting with a blowpipe, to at least 30% - especially since you have to search for darts. Viveca Lindfors, 6 March 2006, 17:25 GMT

It should be over 30% as even at that it still makes blowpipes worse than the heavy sword(which while apparently being really rare itdoesn't mean everybody can't search and find one and 5 dam 45%[2.25 dam/ap] outclasses even 4 dam, search ammo, 2ap per shot, 80%![approaxamitly 1.6 dam/ap not counting search ap] anyday, hell the heavy sword is the uberest weapon in the game![the rifle is 5 dam, 1.5 ap/shot,60%=2dam/ap not counting searching!]) I think you should at least be able to make them have the same to hit as the rifle, It would be balanced by the fact you can only load a single dart at a time(i think),they have lower damage, but you can find darts in more places (check the regular search odds page you'll see they were found in d10 jungle!) I could see this fact alone justify the lower damage and single shot load, but not the lower to hit chance. Unless of course poison darts actually poison(has anybody checked this out?) then I see why they have a low to hit, you can dart somebody, run away then they would die trying to find you, But even if they do poison, outsiders can use them too(with a skill) so I still believe native warriors should be more effective at darting then any other class to balance the superiority of rifles.But all in all problems are solved if blowpipes get some skills to raise to hit% and the heavy sword is removed for being too uber(just cause it is rare doesn't mean we all can't/won't find it!) --Daylan 23:09, 9 March 2006 (GMT)

Maybe there can be a skill to create blowpipe darts (with poison berries or snakes)

Religious Devotion

Required to use "Holy Scriptures" --One of many doctors 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

Comments

Jungle Skills

The jungle environment has great potential to add significant dynamic to this game. These could be a set of skills to reflect this.

Jungle Lore: Player has x% chance of discovering item/artifact. Might work in conjunction with search skill.

Make/Detect Traps: Spikes, Pits etc... Not sure this is possible and what would be need to time degrade this.Nankilstlas

Some kind of "hiding" skill where you can spend AP to conceal yourself in fauna, so you can't be seen by passersby. Visually, it could take the form of "reforesting" a block to dark green, and someone who chops through would "uncover" you, perhaps getting some XP? --Jackel 19:34, 25 February 2006 (GMT)

Comments

A 'trapping' skill looks like it would be exploited by greifers (surrounding someone with traps, for example), but I like the 'Hiding' and 'Jungle Lore' ideas.--Grigoriy 02:26, 26 February 2006 (GMT)

The hiding skill shouldn't conceal you from animals or someone with the Sixth Sense, Exploration, or Jungle Lore skills, otherwise the player would be invincible.--Grigoriy 21:15, 27 February 2006 (GMT)

Agreed, hostile animals should be able to sniff out hidden players, and Sixth Sense makes sense as well. Hidden players have to remain motionless to stay hidden, using items, searching, etc, would "unhide" the person. I was also thinking how the "reforesting" aspect could be abused to create vast areas that needed to be chopped down, so maybe a player could only hide in an already dark green area, (getting a message like there is not enough foliage to suitable hide in when trying in a cleared area) limiting its effect somewhat, and creating a little extra tension when on the run from someone and trying to find an overgrown area to hide in. --Jackel 22:37, 27 February 2006 (GMT)

I like the hiding skill, maybe with different AP required depending on jungle density. Also, first hidden could make you invisible from 2 squares away, while hiding further would hide you from any adjacent square, and a third hide would keep you hidden on the same square unless they chopped. --Qberry 3/29/06

like the hiding thing as well, maybe it could work in that if you use it then you are only visible if they are in the same square as you? it would certainly keep you quite hidden anyway. -- fitzcarraldo|^T 15:42, 28 March 2006 (BST)

i think jungle skills could be great as class specific skills, so that only some of the classes can use them like perhaps explorers. Or maybe they could made to favor native classes (due their affinity for the land and what not) more so than the outsiders, thus making gameplay more interesting.--A for anarchy 04:19, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Skinning

Author	Timestamp	Type	Scope
Lint	21:48, 23 February 2006 (GMT)	Skill addition	All classes

This is a skill that does not have a pre-requisite. Upon coming across an area where a dead animal is present, the player is given an opportunity to skin the animal. The process of skinning costs 1 AP and has a chance of producing items such as Animal Hide or Animal Tooth or Animal Feathers. These items can be traded to an NPC found in villages and exchanged for Gold Coins. This skill should be available to all classes to grant them all with an equal opportunity of earning Gold.

Extend skinning to killed players? No, that's just wrong. We are civilized.
Make skinning have a pre-requisite of Exploration? Perhaps.
Make skinning always produce an item, rather than chance? No, I like a good challenge.
Perhaps it could be tied to the Meat suggestion? Possibly.

Comments

Good idea, perhaps natives don't have a pre-requisite, but outsiders need exploration? *cough* --Grigoriy 02:12, 26 February 2006 (GMT)
- While that may be a more realistic way to handle it - since natives would conceivably be more experienced with such matters - I think that changing the skill tree for such a minor skill would upset the general sense of game balance between the two sides. --Lint 02:43, 26 February 2006 (GMT)

Animal Spirit

(native only) Upon gaining this skill, an animal type is associated with the player. Any attacks by the player on that animal result in negative xp, but the animal is less likely to attack the player. Additionally, if the player dons the skin of the animal (perhaps via the Skinning skill) then a bonus is given to the player, such as faster movement, hit bonus, damage bonus. Bonus could be dependant on animal. Upon player death, there is a chance the player's animal spirit will change. --frisco

Comments

Suggestions like this usually make me cringe. Can't really explain why. Could you elaborate, though, on the bonuses gained?--Wifey 17:06, 3 May 2006 (BST)

Build Training

(Outsiders only) They gain the ability to build walls around the outsider settlements. There would be different levels like reinforced, light, massive, etc. Whoever can attack them and destroy them. Maybe there would be a skill for building gates? --One of many doctors 03:33, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

Comments

Natives should be able to make walls too - think King Kong, plus if there are native ruins on this island, then they must still have some decent construction knowledge lingering around. However, Outsiders should have an "Advanced" skill that allows for stronger walls. --Frisco 04:41, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

Yes, any human should be able to build, and they should ONLY be able to build in certain areas, so as not to have some group lay claim to a section of the island with key resources (assuming there are some). Also, it should take a LOT of AP. --Jackel 00:18, 2 March 2006 (GMT)

If this is implemented, would there be holes/platforms to fire from? If so, there would need to be an alteration in rifles and blowguns, as those can be fired from said platforms, or they can be fired at defenders on said platforms. Initially, at least, it would be probably be best if the stockades acted like UD barricades. Those inside can't fire without going outside, but are safe until those outside break down the barricades. --Black Joe 12:41, 11 July 2006 (GMT)

Trap Laying

(Native only) They can place one time use traps that dmg outsiders only. This skill can only be used in the jungle. Maybe a skill to be able to detect traps? --One of many doctors 03:36, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

Comments

Again i'm thinking Outsiders could make traps too - some of them must have been hunters in the Old Country - but perhaps an Advanced skill for natives, leading to higher success rate, since they are more used to the environment. This skill seems dangerous, though, possibly leading to clans just laying traps in every single square of jungle, making it ridiculous for the other side. Perhaps a trap can only be made in certain jungle types, and only lasts until the jungle changes in level (either growing up naturally or down by the same character type chopping it). --Frisco 04:53, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

This was already proposed in the "jungle skills" section. I agree, it seem too easy to abuse by griefers.--Jackel 00:18, 2 March 2006 (GMT)

Comment Cartography

Applies to Natives & Outsiders, most likely best applied only to the classes, scouts & explorers. I am thinking that it would be great to get more out of the map. This skill would allow those who have it to be able to add a limited number of short comments to their maps. These comments could work as references so as to be able to use the map to help find points of interest at some other time. I could see this probably difficult to implement, but perhaps it could work in that one could click in a quadrant on the map which would reload the page and allow you to add a text comment / description to a form. This text comment on a save would place a reference number on that quadrant of the map and the text would be listed to the right or below the map with accompanying reference number. -- fitzcarraldo|^T 17:05, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

Comments

This is a great idea, I am not an explorer/scout but I am all for class-specific skills, that are in character, because as of right now there aren't too many differences(which I'm guessing will change.-- Daylan00:37, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

I think this is a great idea too, and very much the way a real cartogragher would operate, making small notations as they explored and surveyed.--Jackel 00:49, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

I've been spoiled by the GPS and haven't really found myself lost enough to need this skill. However, with the random revival change I can imagine that getting lost in the jungle is becoming frequently more common for new players. I had a difficult time accepting the point-and-click location feature. I'm not sure how that could be handled simply. I also considered allowing the player to input X and Y coordinates directly, but that seemed out of character for Natives. One possibility that I settled on was a simple "Add Location" button on map.cgi to document the current location. It would change that map.cgi square to a different color and prompt the player to input a description. Ten location points with unique colors and descriptions will be listed under the map to serve as a key. You could either make this listing a queue (pushing out the oldest entries) or locked at 10 until one of the locations are deleted by the player. --Lint 09:01, 11 May 2006 (BST)

Revive skill

Applies to doctors and shamans, a skill to revive spirits, would require Sixth sense (obviously). It is simple enough premis: a skill that revives dead players similar to the regular shamans instead of requiring them to go to town shamans, the revive players aren't as skilled at the craft so the revived players would have only 80% of there hp when revived by other players. --Daylan 00:43, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

Comments

Does raise a risk of multi-abuse, but I agree that player shamen should have this ability. Maybe it requires a special powder or item in order to do?--Jackel 00:49, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
I am trying to think of some cost right now but can't decide. I do know that the xp gain rate should be comparable to fighting(and healing when there are more players) so players will want to be a revive player. --Daylan 01:41, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
I don't like the idea of Doctors getting the ability to revive the dead, but that's definitely within the rights of a shaman. Sixth Sense as a requirement, and you must be standing in the same area as a spirit. Give either a 100% chance to work and a relatively high AP cost (10?) or a lower chance to work and lower AP cost. Blam. There you go. Player shamans can now do their part.--Wifey 07:18, 28 March 2006 (BST)
Haven't been around in a bit..... anyways I was just thinking that it seems mighty easy to get levels by "camping" the "enemy" shamen and getting hordes of xp and tonnes of native/outsider kills this seems like an exploit of the current system of revives. If a player aided revive method is put into place the main shamans should be removed, or you can only be revived by your home shaman by the call shaman(or whatever it is called) button to prevent this xp farming. I thought of this because my level 3 pirate has got all his xp from doing this and it is mighty easy and with the Ubermap and stuff it is even easyer to do, though pirates will need a way to get revived by there own.....lol I just realized I put doctor instead of scientist doctor=scientist - Daylan 02:51, 4 April 2006 (BST)

Polymorph

Requires Animal Spirit. Allows character to take the form of an animal. Perhaps one skill per animal, and each transform requires the use of an (AP expensive) animal mask. Upon transforming, people around you cannot tell it is you. If you die as an animal, you turn back to human, having lost half the HP the animal lost. To allow polymorph for outsiders, maybe a skill like "Ancient Reading" with the presumption that this allows them to read the right glyphs in the ruins would give them the ability to learn this skill. --Frisco 03:52, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

Comments

I like the idea of having some kind of weird supernatural kind of skill for the natives... But, I think that if you get killed while in animal form, you should be dead and have to seek the assistance of a shaman. Because all the natives would do when logging out is morph into an elephant. That's a boat load of HP for someone to whittle down and kill, only to have the human pop out and have to be hacked away at. Granted, nobody will KNOW outright that the person has assumed the guise of an animal. Would you propose that if someone "kills" the animal form they get the XP bonus of killing an animal? -- Schmeckel 06:09, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
Special masks that turn you into animals? They'd need to be quite hard to make, maybe special wood from a certain type of tree, a bit of the animal and something to stick it together. It'd have to be harder to get the ones for better animals. MorkaisChosen 12:19, 11 March 2006 (GMT)

Will o' the Wisp

Author	Timestamp	Type	Scope
Lint	07:53, 25 March 2006 (GMT)	Skill addition	Spirits (all classes)

Will o' the Wisp (can't think of another name) is a potentially simple skill to give a little more incentive to play as a spirit for a bit. It is a sub-skill of Ghostly whisper. If a player possesses this skill, then as a spirit they will have an option to "Wisp" for 30 AP. Wisping operates on a similar mechanic as the Flare guns and Feeding groans in Urban Dead. Any players posessing Sixth Sense within a 5x5 range of the spirit will be informed: A faint flicker of light catches your eye (x blocks east/west), (y blocks north/south). (timestamp).

This skill also has the potential to stack. More spirits on the same square will produce a brighter effect. Possibly in base 5. Ranging from faint flicker, slight illumination, to brilliant flash.

Fixes that I made last minute: reduced the Wisp range and upped the Wisp cost in an attempt to reduce spamming, also making Sixth Sense a prerequisite for recognizing Wisps as it would otherwise nerf the skill to a degree.

Comments

I like it. The AP cost might be a bit on the high side, but there may be other alternatives to reduce spamming. --Simon 10:44, 25 March 2006 (GMT)
What's the point of it? Or is there something I'm missing? I mean, is it just to light up for kicks? Wll o' the Wisps in folklore always attempted to lead travellers into dangerous parts of bogs, where they would find their doom. Since that isn't really an option (and since people, noticing this, would just stop paying attention to them), is there any practical use for this? Still neat, if there isn't, but better if there is.--Wifey 07:25, 28 March 2006 (BST)
- As a Shaman with Sixth Sense, I've only come across 1 spirit. I sought a means to encourage the realm of the living and the dead to interact more. It is admitedly mostly aimed towards flavor and roleplaying than mechanics. The most practical application would be to attract people to revive points (in the possibility that they are created). In retrospect, I now see that this suggestion overlaps with the Haunting Scream description to a fair degree. --Lint 08:33, 28 March 2006 (BST)

Does it overlap? I haven't seen a Haunting Scream in action, yet. I'm all for flavor and RP skills, I just doubt that people woud bother with them too often without some mechanical benefit, which would be a shame. I'll admit, though, that I hadn't thought of attracting shamans to get yourself revived.--Wifey 06:48, 29 March 2006 (BST)

Construction

construction points, would be implemented and would act like exp, but players earn it by setting up camp, ex: 5exp everytime a player sets up his/her cabin, costs 10ap to set up, to keep from spamming and getting free exp.

constructionallow players to build 1(one) single hut per GAME that is collapsable, non collapsable, players out in the jungle would have to cut down the jungle to re-construct the hut

this would give players a reason to stay out in the jungle,

simply what it says, first off, we could/should have different buildings because i find it annoying to have to look around at the same picture not knowing where the trading post is. im implying that new icons be put in for huts, like the pirate ship, have different pictures, ex: there is an armory hut, it's icon would be a hut with a silver tip/ sword on the roof and etc...

SKILLS:

hut maitenance

can change hut 1(one) time into another kind of hut ex: armory hut, extra chance of finding wpns etc

- cupboard accesible inventory in hut that players can "lock" and recieve a "key" item, other players could break open the "lock" for x amount of AP
bed players in hut are shown the "get into bed" option which heals 2 hp every hour they arent logged in
- fluffy bed heals and extra 1-2 hp
running water

if the hut is within x amount of squares to water, they can refill gourds and bottles (i think someone suggested we keep empty bottles, this would require that to be implemented)

fire-pit players can cook meat (as suggested, only used if implemented)
craftmanshipplayers can see the hut's creator, ex: Richard's Hut, if skill isnt aquired, players see the hut as "dishevelled hut" or "ragged hut" etc.
hut upgrade 1 hut is given one extra ring of squares
- hut upgrade 2 hut is given extra floor
  - hut upgrade 3 hut second floor is enlarged, door locks are given
    - hut upgrade 4 hut is given a basement

the use of hut upgrades is to help people hide, when upgrade 3 is given, and locks are attained, players can "lock" their houses up, requiring a devastating amount of AP to open, suggesting around 60-70 AP

house trap 1 spike trap, inflicts 1 wound
- house trap 2 heavy spike trap, 1 wound and 3 dmg
house trap 3 blast trap, 7 hp
- house trap 4 heavy blast trap 14 hp

traps are triggered upon breaking into a house, players can attain a new skill:

lockpick breaking in only costs 30 AP

with this skill, traps are disabled

animal cage

if animal trapping were implemented, then this would keep them from running away when u died,

- animal care animal care section of the house, determining your pet's status ex:

Richard clicks the button "give pet food" mr whiskers smiles and gobbles it up. it could also just be flavor text, and a way to get rid of meat.

attack animal

player buys skill animal now acts like trap, player types in names of people allowed to be in house, anyone not on the list is attacked by animal, animal is treated as "wild" to intruders, as per, it will follow them several blocks away from the house before returning, and can be killed, but is also agressive no matter what breed. ex: mr.parrot attack john doe for 2 dammage and returns home.

- rabidity animal is now "rabid" and has a 20% chance of "infecting" (wound) the intruding player

other tidings can be added, ex:

taxidermy players can pick up dead bodies and mount them in their house ex:

in the second story of richard's hut is a grey elephant head, mounted on oak

my finale,

garden allows players to plant a tree/ bush 1 square away from their house, planting requires, 5 of the said fruit and the plants disappear when the hut is packed up, players also have the ability to "kill" the plant and re-grow a different one.
- green thumb allows players to garden for only 3 fruits
- verdant thumb allows players to change to growths around their house, ex: a house surrounded by dirt can be changed to light undergrouwth or heavy forest
- spade allows player to dig a "cellar" 1-3 squares away from house to "hide" or store items.

skill also allows players to loacte any tunnels within 5X5 of the checked area. players can only check within a 3X3 area around the house

house experience does not raise everytime a skill is bought, but the price is set at 100-200 (your choice)

"comments Below"

Sounds like it would be a good idea if the island was bigger but otherwise a 3x3 would be gigantic if everyone had one--Slith 21:40, 29 March 2006 (BST)

not really, but the huts are still the same single square size on the outside, it is the inside that changes. --Richard Rose

I think it would be better to implement this skill while implementing clans - i.e. having clan camps. One way to implement this would be to establish camp/ a hut automatically when a certain number of players from a given clan stand on a single square. This would reward organization and prevent individual players from spamming. In addition, I think that having all those additions as skills is unnessacary. I just adds uneeded complexity. Again, clan based operation seems to be the best way to do this.--Gandhi 00:47, 31 March 2006 (BST)

Plunder

Author	Timestamp	Type	Scope
Wifey	07:15, 30 March 2006 (BST)	Skill	Pirates

So. Pirates have been added, at long last. We all love pirates. They're swarthy, greedy people. Like mobsters, only with eyepatches, bandanas, peg legs, parrots, and the clap. There's something lacking in the pirates on Shartak, though. To get a better idea of this, let's look at the check list.

[x] 1. Pirate ship

[x] 2. Swarthy attitude

[x] 3. Pirate lingo

[x] 4. Murder

[ ] 5. Plunder

Aha! So we've identified the problem: a distinct lack of plunder. For this reason, I've come up with the idea for a plunderin' skill. Now, when you kill some poor sap, you take one coin out of his inventory per level--his level, that is. This keeps it a little balanced, in that you won't be taking away the life savings of some poor little level 1 when you kil him. Unless he happens to have only 1 coin, but that's neither here nor there. Now, of course, if you kill a level 5 who only has 4 coins, you'll only get those 4 coins. If he has 6 coins, however, you'll only get 5 of them.

Is it overpowering pirates to give them this class-restricted skill? Not really. I mean, despite being a combat class, they can't really get any good with rifles. Pretty much all of their kills are made with a cutlass. And what's the real usage of the gold coins? Typically, to buy ammunition. Obviously, the pirates won't be using it on that, as they're terrible shots. They'll just buy themselves some medical supplies, some back-up weapons, and hoard the rest. I can't say I know that many players who hold onto the coins, anyways, though I'm sure there must be some. Still, they generally tend to be spent pretty quickly. Really, I just think that this could lend pirates a little more depth; sure, they're fellow outsiders, but can you trust them? How quickly will they cut your throat for you wallet?

So... Thoughts? Agreement? Death threats?

Comments

Keep/Change (Yarr) I agree that this fits with theme and perhaps rightfully rewards Pirates in that they do not have a Trader NPC at the shipwreck (at least that was the case when I left it several days ago). And I'm glad that this is being presented as a purchasable skill (I believe?) rather than an inherent one.
I do generally follow one of the basic tenets of UD - "Don't ~~Tread On Me~~ Mess With My Inventory!" But gold appears to have become fairly plentiful with the Trader NPC; having more gold than your current level is a fairly easy feat and losing gold won't lead to an entirely unpleasant gaming experience. However, I would like a few more mechanics set in place to minimize the avenues to zerging, griefing, and general abuse that this suggestion would open up.
The only simple amendment I can think of may be to give Plunder a percent chance of success. Perhaps allowing for degrees of advanced plundering skills. --Lint 20:07, 30 March 2006 (BST)
- RE: A very good point. Very good points from both of you. I had thought of a % chance when I was originally writing the suggestion, but I realized that the nwe'd be dealing with an X% chance to get Y% of the other player's coins, and I thought it might be a little more work on the server than necessary. I thought, perhaps a chence of getting only 1 coin, but that seemed just silly. Perhaps we could limit the pirate to only 1 plunder per day (or maybe a few more, if people feel that 1 is too few)? For example, if you killed John Smith the level 1 Explorer and took 1 coin from him, then killed Mr. Moneybags the level 16 with more coins than you can shake a stick at, you would get no coins from him. If you were to wait a day, though, and kill Mr. Moneybags then, you would get 16 coins--and no more from anyone else for the rest of the day. Additionally, you would not be able ot get money from the same person twice in a row. So if, after killing Mr. Moneybags and taking half of his coins, you killed him the next day, you would get none. You might as well have gone for poor little John Smith. That eliminates griefing, and all it would need to do is keep track of the ID of the last person you killed, checking it the next time you kill someone 24+ hours later..--Wifey 23:29, 30 March 2006 (BST)
i agree with both of them, and with you, id love to see this flavor added, and the trader NPC at the pirate camp has yet to be found, so they would have to go to another village to use it. the closest village (where my pirate is) is dalpok, which, is, as you know native. this hostility would mean pirates would REALLY have to work to hoard medical supplies and weapons, thusly this would be well balanced. i also want to discuss the % success rate. as pirates are VERY good at "plundering" the % chance success rate should start at a reasonably high %, such as 50% and above. as putting it any lower would simply be ridiculous. there could be several level ups to raise the % but if there are no advanced levels then i suggest putting the starting % at around 75%. --Richard Rose

Plunder could be made a search skill (concievably the second skill in the plunder grouping). Rather than having it be merely equivalent to scavenging the plunder skill could only be used in villages (it wouldn't matter if they were native or outsider villages). Scavenging could similarly be changed to a jungle-only skill. Repeatedly plundering a square would deplete it much like chopping down a square of jungle, and squares would replenish over time much the same way. Whether this affects the search odds for other players is open to debate. I'd hate for the pirate class to be burning every other class in the game by plundering all the villages to the point nobody could find a rifle.
The odds of finding a broken item should increase while plundering. The more refined the item the greater the chance it would be broken when a pirate plunders it (GPS, first aid kits, rifles, dart guns and any other delicate manufactured items to come being more likely to be broken). It would give people on the island something to do other than filling out the map and hunting game. Since we could then expect groups of pirates moving from village to village it would also increase player interaction (violently or otherwise). Having a wider range of broken items could necessitate a repair skill for players or a similar service that could be provided by a trader adding another level to the game's economy. -Tyler Whitney

With the new "stuff breaks/crit hit" along with traders gold has a major use, instead of searching for that cutlass(or machete both break) you can go trade your hard earned gold coins for a weapon, why stop at just coins? pirates could get this skill and should just take away 1 random item (any item) plus a few gold coins, as we all know pirates didn't just take gold they took anything of value. Though level ones should be completly immune to this and the maximum value of the item you take(based on how many gold coins it takes to trade for the item) should be equal to there level, or some other method all I know is items should get stolen along with coins, you can only get killed once (as of right now) before going back to a village so it doesn't do too much, I mean 1 item? even if it was my machete(whom I call Mary) I wouldn't mind, sure my ghost would scream and haunt the bastard who took her away from me that would just add a new level of fun to the game. As a native(with a pirate alt) I support this skill, though it would entail a new top ten richest in the statistics page so the pirates would know who to hunt.... mwahaha -Daylan 03:09, 4 April 2006 (BST)
- Now there's an interesting idea. Perhaps, though, there should then be a hierarchy of items in the eyes of a pirate? For instance, you take 1 item (which might be a gold coin) and one gold coin on the side. The gold coins on the side would increase with one's level. What would the item be, though? Probably first would be a gem. They're shiny and valuable--a pirate's favorite words (aside from "Arrrr!")! Next? A gold coin. Not enough coins? Probably a cutlass or machete. None of those? Rifle. No? Rifle bullet, then. None of those, either? Probably go with a first aid kit. Ah, but those are out, too? Bottle of water. And so on down the list. Bottle of water -> bottle of rum -> gourd of water/banana/berries -> knife/dagger. I doubt a pirate would bother with a blowgun or darts, nor would he yearn for his enemies' driftwood. Once again, just throwing an idea out, though.--Wifey 06:28, 4 April 2006 (BST)
  - To a Pirate, Rum would be more interesting than Water...MorkaisChosen 11:40, 28 May 2006 (BST)
- I think plundering items crosses into making this skill much to powerful. It lessens the need for the Pirate class to spend AP searching. They may lose a cutlass or two choppping another player to bits, but then they earn a machete in the kill and can continue on their way. Gold coins can be argued to be powerful, but the lack of a Trader at the shipwreck means they have to make their way to other Villages in order to spend them. After some further thinking, I feel that there should be a plundering cap of 10 coins regardless of level (otherwise it would be unfair to classes with class-specific skills that make them a higher level than others). And it is random chance after the kill produces no coins or some coins or all coins. If the player doesn't have enough coins, the Pirate plunders what he can and is given extra flavor text to reward them on their evil little victory. "Yo ho ho! You have taken all (Player)'s booty." --Lint 07:00, 4 April 2006 (BST)

Plunder sounds nice. How about this formula: a pirate's chance of plundering someone equals 4 times the pirate's level minus 2 times the victim's level and always returns the lesser of half the victim's level in gold (rounded down) or all the victim's gold. In other words, if a level 10 pirate plunders a level 1 scientist with 10 gold, the pirate has a 38% chance of getting 0 gold, and if a level 10 pirate plunders a level 13 warrior with 2 gold, the pirate has a 14% chance of getting 2 gold. This simulates higher level non-pirates being more adept at hiding coin purses on their body, and prevents griefing on newbies. I agree with above comments that plunder should be a one time immediate event upon killing a character, based on a percentage chance, and limited to gold - anything else makes the skill too complex and/or powerful. --Frisco 13:39, 4 April 2006 (BST)
I wouldn't support this unless pirates could be plundered from, too, which kind of defeats the point. It's not like pirates are a weak class; the shipwreck has a trader now, and they start with 65 HP. I really like being able to count on having a static inventory while I'm logged out, and I think "Yarr, a pirate has killed you and plundered 1 gold coin" would get old very fast. I think it'd be quite cool if pirates were healed by 1 HP more for drinking beer or rum, but taking gold from their kills is too much. — Elembis (talk) 16:42, 28 May 2006 (BST)
Yarr and Keep. I say this is a good addition. I believe all the classes should have some skill specific to them. I have a pirate and a scientist, and neither of them have anywhere special go to in terms of skills, thus making the distinction of them being scientists and pirates useless. Especially the scientist... 10 gold coins? What the? --Rip Purr 10:53, 30 May 2006 (BST)
Would it damage game balance much to have the pirate gain gold as described, but without taking gold from the victim? That way we have the benefits of the skill, without the annoyance of losing your gold. And it wouldnt be an easier way to get money than searching in huts, so it shouldnt unbalance the game too much. --Gitboy 17:26, 3 July 2006
I like the idea of plunder, and given that pirates don’t have class specific skill it would only be fitting to have it as our first. Rather then trying to create overly complicated system for plunder we should just follow in the tradition of final fantasy more specifically making plunder into a 3 level skill much in the vain of steal (a small chance of taking a random item from opponent’s inventory (maybe 5%)) rob (a greater of chance than the above (10%)) and finally mug (the same chance rating as “rob” with the addition of damage if successful(something like 2 or 3).--A for anarchy 04:13, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Diagnosis

Author	Timestamp	Type	Scope
Lint	18:21, 6 April 2006 (BST)	Skill addition, class-specific	Shaman and Scientist

This is an attempt to create additional variety within the classes. Diagnosis would be a sub-skill of Triage available only to the Shaman and Scientist classes. It behaves much like Triage does, but it would detect Shark Bites and other possible future maladies and status ailments. Shark Bite victims could be identified with an asterisk next to their name.
I believe that this skill's net benefits will be minimal. It would fit with the theme of the class, while not over-powering them. I also believe that since this is a sub-skill, that there should be additional class-specific skills for Shamans and Scientist.

Comments

If Triage truly only does reveal one person's HP then the skill tree should be expanded for Advanced Triage as well. Where Advanced Triage would display the HP of everyone in the current area - rather than just the most wounded. --Lint 01:55, 29 April 2006 (BST)
Corrected usage of Doctor. I hope that this skill can still be considered in-character for Scientists. --Lint 23:11, 11 May 2006 (BST)

Alchemy

Author	Timestamp	Type	Scope
One of many doctors	23:24, 8 April 2006 (BST)	Skill addition, class-specific	Scientists

Allows Scientists to convert seemingly useless items (such as driftwood) into valuables such as a gold coin. Another possibility is crabs into gems (don't ask). This would, of course, cost about 25 AP per use. This would give Scientists a key role in the game because they would be needed to convert intems.

Comments

While I like the basic idea of this, it should be limited a little. That said, I don't know how one would appropriately limit its use. Perhaps you could turn a bottle of rum into a more refreshing bottle of water? How, precisely, would you envision the implementation of this?--Wifey 01:18, 10 April 2006 (BST)
I like it! It gives us something unique to do as scientists! Would you make it so you turn a specific useless item into a specific useful item, or what?MorkaisChosen 15:24, 10 April 2006 (BST)
- I imagine that eventually every class will have atleast one unique skill to separate it from the others and give a reason for choosing that class. --One of many doctors 01:30, 11 April 2006 (BST)
I could accept this if it was presented differently. As it stands, it sort of conflicts with my expectation that the Natives are the more mystically-inclined and the Outsiders are more advanced technologically. I just don't envision men and women of science practicing alchemy. I have no objection to the scientist manufacturing items, but not in this manner. --Lint 03:37, 11 April 2006 (BST)

Spirit Substantiation

Author	Timestamp	Type	Scope
Frisco	16:40, 14 April 2006 (BST)	Skill	Sprits (all classes)

The spirit has learned to partially substantiate its form, becoming more physical, and can now float on the winds to move at double the normal rate (i.e. .5 AP per move), but only in the direction that the wind is blowing. Note that this requires the game element of wind, which can either be a uni-directional constant (e.g. always blows west) or changes over time (perhaps dependant on location?). If wind direction changes, the game's user interface will need a mechanism to display wind direction, either via game.cgi or added to map.html.

This could be the first in a series of new spirit skills. I see the aforementioned Will o' the Wisp being under this tree, as well as another skill to move .3 AP per move but still only in the direction of the wind. Perhaps some poltergeist type skills can be added as well - allow dead pirates to plunder, any spirit to write messages, any spirit to still map out the area, etc, etc.

Comments

Nice idea, what would happen to moving against the wind? Would that then require 2AP and 1 AP to move at 90 degrees to the wind direction :) --Simon 17:33, 14 April 2006 (BST)
- I was thinking of substantiation as being a conceptual (not a user toggle switch, something the game system automatically determines) on/off capability of the ghost, so the ghost could have no form and thus no penalty for moving into the wind, then take form and move with the wind. But that's mostly because i don't like the idea of skills that negatively affect a character. I definitely think wind should adversely affect other things, like pigeons taking longer to deliver if the recipient is upwind. It's all more math for you! --Frisco 17:49, 14 April 2006 (BST)

Marksmanship

Author	Timestamp	Type	Scope
Arminius	05:34, 13 May 2006 (BST)	Skill modification and new skill	Anyone who uses a ranged weapon

A few problems that I see with regard to rifle use: 1) Non-soldiers' extremely low maximum rifle accuracy making rifles useless to non-soldiers, 2) Loading rifles takes up a tremendous amount of AP since it costs one AP to load one bullet, leading to a very low damage-to-total-AP-spent ratio, 3) A closely related problem to #2 is the fact that people are carrying around 20 or 30 rifles/blowpipes, which is ridiculous and unrealistic, and a by-product of the AP cost to load. I dont know if the following idea for a solution to both of these problems can realisitically be implemented, but here goes: Change the Advanced Rifle Training skill to make loading rifle bullets cost 0 AP (advanced training would thus mean the abiliy to load rifles very easily and quickly, as opposed to untrained people who take much longer. We are in the time period when it took a long time to load rifles after all). Institute a new skill called Marksmanship in the firearms skill tree, which gives +__% rifle accuracy (I would say +30%). Let marksmanship be a skill that can be acquired by anyone, while rifle training and advanced rifle training remain soldier-exlcusive. If Marksmanship gives +30%, it will improve non-soldiers' maximum accuracy from 20% to 50%, knocking out problem #1 above. Soldiers with the entire proposed rifle skill tree would have max accuracy of 70% and would not have to waste an AP to load, knocking out problem #2. Natives would get the same changes for blowpipe note: It might be better to have two skills, Marksmanship and Expert Marksmaship, each giving +15% accuracy, and possibly make these two a seperate skill tree. If they were in the rifle training tree, they would have to come after the two rifle training skills, but non-soldiers cannot get rifle training, so it would look awkward.

NOTE: Revised proposal and statistical analysis of current vs. proposed damage-to-AP ratios, click here

Comments

From a gameplay point of view, i don't see that guns/blowpipes need to be any stronger. It's already possible to take someone out in one go, why the need to kill quicker? The proposed change means with one gun and a full load of bullets, one soldier in one day causes an average of 75 * .7 * 4 = 210 HP damage - that's 2.4 pirates with stamina, or 4.2 beginner shamans. It would make the game a lot less fun to be able to die that much quicker and that much more often. Maybe i wouldn't object as much if these old school guns were also subject to backfiring, causing them to blow up in the owner's hands and resulting in owner HP loss and gun destruction (similar to machete/cutlass blade snapping). By the way, elsewhere there's been debate on the timeperiod of the game since we also have GPS units. --Frisco 20:00, 13 May 2006 (BST)

You are calculating combat damage-to-AP ratio, the proposed modification of the advanced rifle training skill would not affect combat-damage-to-AP ratio very much (it would affect it not at all for people with lots of rifles), it would only affect the rifle's currently very low total overall damage-inflicted-to-AP-spent ratio. (With 28 fully-loaded rifles a soldier can already kill two 85-HP pirates in only 56 AP.) The rifle's total-damage-to-AP ratio today is 0.48 by my calculation, the machete's is 1.35. With the proposed changes, the maximum total-damage-to-AP ratio for a rifle-wielding soldier would be 0.7 (still far lower than machete). Non-soldiers max rifle total damage-to-AP ratio would improve from 0.16 (weaker than a level 0 character with a blunt machete) to 0.4. I like your suggestion of rifles possibly blowing up too, Simon should definitely consider that. Arminius 20:28, 13 May 2006 (BST)

I'm not sure how I feel about the skill yet, but I will correct you, Frisco, in that the GPS unit is not an adequate argument about the game's time period. Simon has already said that he doesn't like the name "GPS Unit" because it is anachronistic, and was considering another one.--Wifey 01:03, 14 May 2006 (BST)

I don't quite see why rebuilding the skill tree is necessary. You could accomplish the same thing by introducing two new skills - one for accuracy which builds upon the existing accuracy skills and one for reloading. Make the first accuracy skill available to all classes (adjusting to 30%), but restrict the secondary accuracy skills to Warriors and Soldiers. But even then, I'm not completely sold on the fact that these skills are necessary. I have no problem with my non-Soldier not depending on a rifle. If I wanted to use a rifle, I can easily make a Soldier character. And while reducing reloading cost might bring rifles and blowpipes more evenly with machetes, increasing the damage or introducing the ranged attack suggestion might solve the problem without providing free lunches. --Lint 02:31, 15 May 2006 (BST)

Yes of course it's fine to make them new skills. I suggested it in the way I did because learning to load quickly would fall under rifle training I would say, and we already have the two rifle-training skills in the game. One of the accuracy-improving skills would fall under Marskmanship (or marskmanship/expert marksmanship). How they are added to the game is almost immaterial, the point is to let soldiers be able to acquire a skill which gets rid of their need to waste more than half their daily AP loading their 20 rifles, and get rid of the need to carry 20+ rifles in the first place. I dont see how a skill allowing for a 0 AP cost to load is a "free lunch" at all, it just reduces the price of a ridiculously high-priced lunch, i.e. 1 AP to load 1 bullet/dart (plus I feel it improves the realism of the game, in part by eliminating the need to carry around 25 rifles or blowpipes). The point of the Marksmanship skill (available to all) is not to put non-soldiers on the par with soldiers in firearms capability at all, but to make rifles non-worthless to everyone else. Currently non-soldiers are literally far better off punching enemies than using a rifle when it comes to damage-inflicted-per-AP-spent, which is just ridiculous. Arminius 03:37, 15 May 2006 (BST)

I do like the idea of making rifle and blowpipe usage more accessible to other character classes. But I continue to have a difficult time accepting the 0 AP reload cost. Currently there is no action in the game that costs 0 AP besides rejecting a trade, speaking in empty area, healing someone at full health, and dropping an item (all non-actions). Would 0.5 AP would be an acceptable change? But before it is considered, there must be other alternatives before lowering AP cost to make the ranged weapons more balanced. --Lint 22:27, 27 May 2006 (BST)

How about this-- modify advanced rifle training skill so that instead of "Gain another 20% on firearms attacks", it says "lets soldiers load and fire faster" (0.5 AP to load and to fire with that skill), in other words a rifle version of trekking. This would cut down on the excessive AP costs of rifle usage and be an interesting skill to balance rifles rather than another "add 20% accuracy" or something like that. Then two new skills, Marksmanship (+10% accuracy), Expert Marskmanship (+20% accuracy), both of which would be available to all character classes. I would envision the two marskmanship skills as the first two skills in the firearms tree (the only two available to non-soldiers), and then the rifle training skills would come afterwards. -Arminius 20:00, 30 May 2006 (BST)

UPDATE: To see a revised version of my suggestion Click Here. I worked out the current and proposed damage-to-AP ratios, and I invite everyone to take a look. It is far too long and complicated to copy here, so I wrote it up elsewhere. -Arminius 01:44, 2 June 2006 (BST)

As discussed elsewhere, carrying loaded rifles as backup allows you to lock in the kill bonus on a much wider range of (remaining-AP/remaining-victim-HP) situations. Since the kill bonus is more than a third of total XP for combat, this throws the naive XP=damage comparisons way out of whack. Anecdotally at least, my Soldier has clearly done better than my other characters in jungle XP-harvesting, because kill-steals and dying while asleep are so common. So while the Rifle (and especially the Blowpipe) needs help, I think that nearly doubling combat-time damage to 2x 50% 5 damage for 1 AP (5.0) instead of 1x 60% 5 damage (3.0) is not an ideal way to proceed. I support Free Reload or Rapid Reload as a Soldier-Only Skill. I also think that an all-available accuracy upgrade for Rifle/Blowpipe (to at least better than Machete) would be great. For example: Base 20% (+General Accuracy +15%) (+Soldier-only Accuracy +15%) (+Soldier-only Accuracy +15%). Or maybe Base 10% (+General Accuracy +25%) (+Soldier-only Accuracy +25%) (+Soldier-only Rapid Reload), and increase Rifle Bullet base damage to 6. Two shots per AP just seems too big a jump to me; imho implementing true range (firing from adjacent square and/or without provoking return melee attacks) is a better way to proceed. --Tycho44 03:56, 2 June 2006 (BST)

Yes the blowpipe needs help even more than the rifle. That limited-AP poisoning skill, along with these proposed boosts to accuracy, would even things out there. I also like the idea of making ranged weapons truly ranged, but that seems difficult to implement and perhaps impractical (for one thing we cant see the names of people on adjacent squares). If any version of QBerry's "auto attack" is ever implemented for players, though it seems unlikely with so much opposition, the "range" of the ranged weapon could come into play by not allowing a person without ranged weapons/ammo to back. This was discussed on the forums in the "Aggressive Animals" thread. Arminius 06:01, 2 June 2006 (BST)

NB about Free Reload: Incidentally, Free Reload obviously solves the "realism problem" by allowing a Soldier to carry only one Rifle and a huge pile of Bullets, with no increase in Soldier combat-time damage-per-AP (still 3.0 max avg per AP) nor Soldier field-capacity damage-per-inventoryfull (still 72 shots) since 2 Bullets loose take up as much space as a Loaded Rifle. People who think that 0AP reload is imbalancing have been smoking too much of the dried herbs. As for realism of 0AP reload, the Soldier's "1AP to fire" accounts for time necessary to both reload and fire. I can discuss and reject 160 exchanges with the Trader and or attempt to heal a signpost in the same amount of time. The real-time form submission and IP hit creates a perceptible time-increment. --Tycho44 03:56, 2 June 2006 (BST)

After thinking about this, it seems to me that the best thing to do is as follows: No new skill, instead simply a change in the game mechanics so that all players take 0 AP to "load" by deafult. The AP cost to fire would thereby represent the time to load and fire, as Tycho44 said above. (Load was in quotation marks there because the load button in-game would thus really represent selecting the bullet to use, the actual action of loading would be included in the 1 AP to fire). This would eliminate the 30 rifles problem straight away (and for all character classes), it would not increase the combat damage-to-AP ratio at all, and it would be an interesting way to increase the damage-to-total-AP-spent ratio (which we need) without having to add any new skill. As for the accuracy boosts, those can be worked out later (non-soldiers need a boost in that department we all agree, perhaps soldiers merit a slight one), but 0 AP to "load" is definitely a sound change to make, I see no argument against it. Arminius 23:11, 3 June 2006 (BST)

The reason why I keep pressing for alternatives is because I never saw this as a solution in other browser-based games. Shouldn't the route be to increase the damage dealt to reduce the impact of the reload cost? --Lint 18:52, 14 June 2006 (BST)

My earlier arguments notwithstanding, I strongly oppose universal 0AP reload. A 0AP reload for everyone simply destroys the reloading game mechanism in its entirety, making the 2-bullet chamber of the rifle identical to the 1-dart chamber of the blowpipe identical to the 70-bullet drum of a hypothetical gatling gun. The blowpipe is distinguished by its Poison damage, which can in turn be offset by a Reload Penalty, if we keep that game mechanic. Keeping the reload mechanic enhances the separate-but-equal factions. In my humble and uninformed speculation, tweak up the accuracy on ranged weapons (say 20% base / 35% marksmanship-universal / 50% warrior-only / 65% advanced-warrior-only) and things will work fine. --Tycho44 23:54, 17 June 2006 (BST)

Hut Construction (Simplified)

Author	Timestamp	Type	Scope
Rip Purr	12:05, 3 June 2006 (BST)	Skill, item, action	Every player

This is a bit similar to the Construction suggestion, but much more simplified. I agree that we should be able to set up little camps, to have bases away from bases. I'll explain the flavour aspect after I've explained the mechanics.
A skill can be purchased called, "Construction", which allows you to erect a hut on land that has been chopped down to 0 density. The hut would have a bit of AP weight to build, say 10ap cost so that full constuction on a 10 dense jungle sq would have a total of 20ap. The hut that you build is at first a regular empty hut. Once you have bought the second skill in the set, "Stock Hut" (or something like that), the hut becomes a mini trade-post, stocking no more than 5 types of items at any one point. The first 5 items are randomized, and then as people trade, they change. Thus, it's a mixed bag of what you could get. These artificially erected huts can be sacked and destroyed. Keep in mind I'm not a coder, so if you know what I'm describing is difficult, but know how to do something similar, please say so.
Flavour: This gives people the feeling of being able to set up their own little base camp for their own clan, without making a whole new village. The fact that each hut can only stock a small number of items, and also that it can be destoryed, means things don't get out of hand and make the original villages defunct. Each hut can also be plauged with low-demand items like crabs or mangoes, making the idea even for grifers, natives, enemies, outsiders and pirates.

Comments
Building a hut could also require a certain number of driftwood pieces. --Rip Purr 12:08, 3 June 2006 (BST)

Ability to create minor base camps away from settlements is good (but for what practical purpose?), but the idea that the island would be flooded with "huts" all over, with the same icon and name as huts in settlements, I dont like that. This is supposed to a wild myseterious island, having huts all over would hurt that ambiance I think (Lower-tech base camps of some sort would not hurt it though.) If hut construction is implemented it would have to be very costly to avoid littering the entire map with them that's for sure. The other thing is, We have to be clear about what the purpose of these base camps would be, what practical benfit would they have. Would they have defense value? Could the builder elect to keep people out unless they are members of clan X or unless they are natives or unless they are Derbyites, etc? Arminius 00:59, 4 June 2006 (BST)

I agree wholeheartedly with your points. It is indeed important to make it difficult to build huts. As I mentioned, the huts would have very small capabilities as a trade point, thus making them a tactical advantage in a seige. Allow me to explain; My clan wants to lay seige to Dalpok. We erect a small camp near the village and stock our huts with bullets through trading. Then we load up, attack, come back to our makeshift camp and take the bullets from our huts. As for the wild, mysterious island element, you're right, but is it not normal for humans to tame and civilise the jungle? And vice versa for humans to destroy one another's homes? With this new skill(s) we can simulate seiges and sackings, but still keep our 7 original villages/bases. I don't think you could exclude people from entering your hut. It's the luck of the draw, and if enemies infiltrate, too bad. makes it all the more exciting. I also agree that making a hut should be very costly, but that's up to Simon as to how he'd like to implement such a cost. Finally, the only variation I can see might be to make huts not a mini trade post, but maybe a small storage area of say 15 slots, to keep bullets or med kits from the main towns...? --Rip Purr 02:30, 4 June 2006 (BST)

Here are my thoughts on the matter:

To encourage clustering of huts (instead of unsightly and unrealistic random scattering), hut-builders should be required to chop the hut's eventual square and all surrounding squares (that don't have huts on them) to d0. After all, construction requires some space. This would encourage players to build next to existing huts, since every adjacent hut is a square that doesn't need chopping.
For realism's sake, driftwood shouldn't be required to build or repair a hut, because it'd be silly to make a player in the middle of a huge jungle travel all the way to the beach to find wood. Jungle wood could be introduced as an item, but I think it's better to require AP alone.
Hut health could be managed by giving each new hut 5 HP (Hut Points =)) and removing 1 HP every 24 hours (obliterating any hut that reaches 0 HP). A hut would require 50 AP to construct (in addition to AP for chopping the surrounding jungle) and 10 AP to repair by 1 HP. Repairs wouldn't require cleared jungle; once a hut is built, jungle growth outside doesn't matter.
Special features for huts, such as trade and storage abilities, should be put on hold until buildable huts are already in the game. Not only do huts provide shelter from animals, they hide players inside from anyone not willing to spend a few AP to move to the hut and enter it, so additional features shouldn't be necessary to make hut-building worthwhile.

— Elembis (talk) 04:52, 4 June 2006 (BST)

Spirit Transfer

Author	Timestamp	Type	Scope
Stcfg	11:37, 3 June 2006 (BST)	Skill, action	Warriors, Shamans

This suggerstion was inspired by polymorph. Warriors and Shamans can get a new skill that allows them to transfer their spirits into the bodies of a dead animal nearby. Animals won't be able to speak, use items, search, or use any human skills. The player will have the Hp and attack power of the type of animal you possessed. Other players on the map will see you as just another animal, not as a native. Transferring spirits will result in the death of their human form (if it is not already dead) but grants them access to the animal's innate abilities. Eg. Alligators can attack twice but have decreased movement through land, Monkeys can search and use some simple items, Parrots move faster throught all terrain. When the body of the animal possessed dies the player will be in spirit form but wont have a corpse. It will also be possible to leave the animal's body at any time but the trauma would be the same as having the body killed by an outside force. In order to not break the game, certain special animals can not be possessed ( like that giant squid )

Comments

I would like to suggest a skill for being able to detect possessed animals but that is for another day. --Stcfg 11:40, 3 June 2006 (BST)

Hunting Prowess

Author	Timestamp	Type	Scope
VTBassMatt	13:17, 9 June 2006 (BST)	Skill	Tracking skill tree

It would be interesting for serious trackers to be constantly aware of recent tracks without spending AP. I propose adding this skill after Expert Tracking—it doesn't have to be called Hunting Prowess but that seemed like a fitting name. Players with this skill would still have to use the 'Look for tracks' button to see anything but the most recent tracks. One possible limitation is to apply this only to animal tracks, but I definitely intended to include player tracks as well.

Comments

Tracking is currently a bit weak. On the other hand, I don't mind seeing quite a few mild/weak skills, because some players are already looking for more ways to spend XP. Certainly Tracking should top out at stronger than 1AP per attempt. My suggestion was Master Tracking above Expert Tracking to reduce time to 0.5AP per attempt. I agree that it would be neat to have the skill Hunting Prowess as a 0AP ability for only the single most recent track, but I think this skill would be a prime candidate to limit to Explorer/Scout-only. (Sorry!) 1. Tracking perfectly fits the Explorer/Scout class archetype, 2. Shartak needs better class differentiation, 3. Explorer/Scout is a bit weak, 4. Explorer/Scout currently has no dedicated skills. --Tycho44 08:19, 15 June 2006 (BST)

Emergency medicine

Author	Timestamp	Type	Scope
Black Joe	08:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)	Skill	Scientist

At the moment, scientists have no significant advantages. They start with 10 gold coins which, while it's nothing to sneeze at, doesn't really fit with their name. Perhaps they could learn a skill that allowed them to heal without the use of a first aid kit. First aid would be a prerequisite. However, the skill would not allow them to heal as many HP as using an FAK would. For example, they might only heal 2-5 HP. This would allow scientists to wander in the jungle for long periods of time without resupplying, giving them a real advantage over other classes. However, using an FAK would still heal more and allow more XP per AP, so FAK's would not become obsolete. Would this be difficult to code?

Comments
Comment here

Give explorers/scouts their own tracking skill

Author	Timestamp	Type	Scope
Elembis	22:29, 18 July 2006 (UTC)	Skill	Explorers and scouts

While trailblazing has given explorers and scouts an edge over other players, they need more if they are to compete with the soldier, warrior and pirate classes for the attention of new players. I suggest that tracking mastery be combined into expert tracking, which will be restricted to explorers and scouts. Any non-explorers/scouts with one or both of those skills would be refunded enough XP for their next skill (or two, if they have both) so they aren't punished. (The refund would occur after the skills were restricted and actively taken away from any non-explorers/scouts with them. This would let their levels and next-skill costs drop before the next-skill XP awards were given so that extra XP would not be accidentally awarded.) Full disclosure: I don't have any tracking skills, and I'm not sure how advanced tracking and expert tracking differ at the moment, but I think a good 1.5 AP tracking skill for everyone and an excellent 0.5 AP tracking skill for explorers and scouts will give those two classes a notable advantage in what should be one of their fortes.

Comments

Shouldn't this be added to the "Hunting prowess" skill entry? http://wiki.shartak.com/index.php/Suggestions:Skills#Hunting_Prowess Black Joe 7:00, 19 July 2006

Yep. Tracking mastery is kind of handy, but I still think that it should be a universal skill, and that hunting prowess should be the scout/explorer-only skill. Hunting prowess, at the top of the tracking tree, would cause scouts to receive basic tracking information passively (for 0 AP) at every step. Oooo, neat. --Tycho44 17:30, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Tracking automatically for every move would add too much load on the server as the game becomes more popular. --Simon 00:11, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Melee buffs for intoxicated pirates

Author	Timestamp	Type	Scope
Elembis	06:24, 22 July 2006 (UTC)	Skill	Pirates under the influence

Pirates are traditionally portrayed as rum-guzzling brawlers, so it would be fitting to encourage pirate players to drink (and drink to excess). I think imbibing a beer or rum should give a pirate a 1 HP damage bonus for all melee attacks in their next 5 AP. A machete (or cutlass) hits 2.25 times in 5 AP, on average, for a skilled user, so drinking for 1 AP would translate to around 2.25 HP of damage beyond what a machete would normally do. This is comparable to the combat damage dealt by blowpipes (2.4 HP/AP) and rifles (3 HP/AP).

Multiple drinks would extend the duration of the effect but not its intensity. To encourage actual drunkenness instead of casual beer-sipping, a drink taken by a pirate with beer already in their gut could give 7 more buffed AP instead of 5, which is effectively 6 AP (and 2.7 HP of damage) when you consider that 1 drunken AP must be wasted on taking another drink. The skill could be called brawling or drunken fist (which is the literal Chinese title of the classic Jackie Chan movie Drunken Master) and would be placed with stamina under body building (to keep melee skills together and to avoid starting another tree).

I'm proposing this cautiously because pirates are already tougher and more popular than any other class. However, considering that beer and rum are harder to find and more expensive than darts and bullets (and should probably be even more expensive if this skill is implemented), I don't think this skill would make pirates stronger than warriors and soldiers, and it would improve both the diversity of the classes and the depth of the game's theme.

Comments

RE: Beer and Rum becoming more expensive if the skill is implemented- I completely agree, and the increase in price would also represent supplies of booze at the pirate camp running out, which I guess would then lead to outsiders trading beer and rum with the pirates, and adding another dimension to gameplay- Peg-Hand Grimm

Nice idea. In general I like the idea of making items have some specific use rather than generic AP-insreasers. But how about making it a gamble to take a drink instead of a definite combat-booster. If a pirate were to drink a bottle of rum, his next 5 or 10 AP would either give him +1 damage for every hit (with "flavor text" to let him know he is getting a boost, e.g. "In a drunken rage you inflict more damage on your target"), or it would make him too disoriented and out of it to do anything, and every time he attacks it would give him flavor text telling him he is too uncoordinated to attack, and he stumbles around unable to do anything (he would stay in place, not respond to comannds to attack but waste an AP anyway) till the intoxication wears off in 5 or 10 AP. Arminius 00:16, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
- The goal is simply to encourage pirates to drink in combat. A chance of uncoordinated failure would be realistic, but it would also make things a little more complicated, so I'd let Simon make that decision if he decides to implement this suggestion. The effect of my original suggestion would be about the same (for fully skilled pirates) if drunk pirates had a damage bonus of +2 (instead of +1) and 10% less accuracy. — Elembis (talk) 05:01, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

This doesn't make sense to me. When your drunk, your hand eye coordination GETS WORSE, not better! The only way I could see the idea working is if accuracy decreased as damage increased. Rewarding pirates for getting sloshed makes about as much sense as drunk driving. Another way to implement this would be to temporarily increase HP with rum ingestion, as this is at least slightly similar to the actual affects of alcohol (kind of like drunken boxing.) Otherwise, I don't see this working. Gandhi 04:20, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
- The idea is to encourage pirates to drink like a pirate would (and in the situations a pirate would), even if doing so is a bad idea in real life. I'd be fine with lowering accuracy even while damage is increased, so long as the overall effect is the same, but that may be an unnecessary complication (my suggestion doesn't increase accuracy, only damage). Your point (that drinking impairs in real life) is a good one, but I think this is a case where the game would be more fun if it diverged slightly from real life. — Elembis (talk) 05:01, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Technical “spell” skills

Author	Timestamp	Type	Scope
A for anarchy	09:33, 22 July 2006 (UTC)	Skill	Scientist/Shaman

I would like to see the introduction of “tech spells” to the “magician class” of Shartak (scientist/shaman) much like the blue magic of final fantasy XII which rather than doing out right damage produces technical effects like haste, poison or blind. An illustration of this would be giving the shaman class an AP cost skill (let’s call it curse) that produces the same effect as wounded/bleeding (1HP loss per action) on their opponent. But given the nature of such spells the percentage chance of success should be inversely proportional to the strength of the spell or have their effects tuned down, so to retain fairness. As side note I like to see this skill given to NPC shamans to discourage people from attacking them.

Comments
"curse" might be confused with what the ancestors spirits do to zergers. This causes actions to cost more AP than normal. I would imagine that this would be a shaman only skill as scientists don't have magical powers! --Simon 22:35, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

i agree with the statement that scientist don't and shouldn't have magic powers, so how about this instead; give them "tech" skills but have them named within a scientific context, for instance the above "wounding" spell could be named "drug" or "poison" instead of say "curse" or whatever. --A for anarchy 04:01, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Haggle

Author	Timestamp	Type	Scope
Aco	20:20 EST 28/07/2006	Skill	Everyone

You can haggle with the traders and get stuff cheaper. When they are pissed off at you (for being there too long) the prices would become normal.

Comments
Comment here

FAK/Healing Herb Manufacturing Skills

Author	Timestamp	Type	Scope
Black Joe	14:28 31 July 2006 (GMT)	Skill	Scientists and Shamans

Perhaps the most in-demand items are healing herbs and first aid kits. They can only be used once, but they're used quite freely. This means that a lot of people must spend a lot of time searching medical huts for FAKs (for the duration of this suggestion, assume that FAK refers to both first aid kits and healing herbs). Meanwhile, we have two classes that don't have much of an advantage: the scientist and the shaman. Perhaps these two classes could learn a skill allowing them to produce their culture's version of the FAK. This would make these classes useful while also increasing the supply of FAKs. Additionally, these two classes are the most likely to know how to do this.

As for how the skill would work, I would recommend having a "Make FAK" button. They would then have a chance of successfully producing an FAK. These FAKs could then either be used (providing a source of XP besides killing things) or could be sold to the trader (since FAKs are always in demand). This would encourage the development of a "healer" class in Shartak, while also giving shamans and scientists useful special skills. I suppose scientists/shamans could be required to find raw materials before manufacturing, but that would just force people to continue the rather tedious and hit-or-miss tactic of farming huts/jungles.

Comments

Oppose. I agree that shamans and scientists should be best at healing and should have useful special skills, but I don't like this specific suggestion (as well-thought-out as it is) for two reasons: First, I think the jungle should be inhospitable, and turning shamans and scientists into herb farms and kit factories (yes, I'm exaggerating) would work against that. Second, I think the ability to make items is a complication that should be avoided if we can accomplish the same goal in other ways, which we can. I recommend three of the suggestions for shaman/scientist healing on Talk:Game design: (1) give shamans access to first aid and scientists access to natural medicine, (2) let shamans/scientists see the health of all wounded players on their side, not just the most wounded one, and (3) let shamans/scientists see whether players on their side are suffering from shark bites or poison. (I'd actually make 3 apply to all players, not just those on the player's side, because it wouldn't really be advantageous in combat to notice shark bites and the effects of poison.) 2 and 3 could be smoothly combined into one "Diagnosis" skill that would give these two classes a useful (if minor) healing edge over the others. — Elembis (talk) 06:10, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
- First, let me thank you for responding. I appreciate any and all input. I've taken some time to think about your objections and prepare my responses. May I propose an alteration? Perhaps, instead of my original suggestion, this "Make FAK" button would (as far as the programming is concerned) serve as a second "search area" button, but one that only produces FAK's, and has a significantly higher chance of producing one than a regular search. Additionally, it would only function in areas where an FAK can be found, as that is where the scientist/shaman would find the raw materials in the first place. This would be similar to UD's "shopping" and "bargain hunting" skills, in that it lets you search for a specific item and gives a boost to the probability of success. Additionally, it would only work in certain areas, like the shopping skill. The difference would be that it only produce FAK's. This would ensure that FAK's aren't simply produced out of mid-air (which is rather unrealistic, now that I think about it) while also giving scientists and shamans a dedicated and valuable healing-related skill. Black Joe 10:44, 1 August 2006 (GMT) Edited: 16:44, 1 August 2006 (GMT)
- How about having the skill function in a similar manner to the "Manufacture Syringe" skill on UD, thus powering-down the effect by requiring that the healer be in a Medical Hut and use multiple AP? --Less Than Lethal 17:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
  - I haven't played UD since that was added; that being said, it certainly sounds good to me. Requiring that the healer be in the medical hut was essentially what I had in mind when I proposed it only work for certain locations. As for requiring multiple AP, I suppose that would have the same long-term effect as searching, while simultaneously being less tedious for the healer. Tell me, would this always produce an FAK or would it just offer a chance of doing so? I certainly like the sound of this suggestion. Black Joe 18:03, 1 August 2006 (GMT)
    - What we have now, then, is a skill which would essentially give scientists better search odds for kits in medical huts (and likewise for shamans). Limiting this skill to players in villages is a step in the right direction, and giving it the form of greater search odds makes some sense, too: healers would look especially hard for healing items. But I'm still not persuaded, mainly because the skill's effects seem inconsistent to me. If healers have better search odds (in effect) for healing items, shouldn't fighters have better search odds for weapons and ammunition, and likewise for pirates finding rum and gold? The implications of the original idea could become very messy in practice. Also, wouldn't a pirate bleeding from a shark bite with just 10 HP remaining look even harder for a kit than a healer merely stocking up on supplies? The goal is allow healers to spend more time in the field and less in the hut, but I think we still lack a solution which makes sense. Here's a more realistic and less far-reaching idea which might work: shamans and scientists are given a skill which lets them heal 5 extra HP with a kit or herb if they're healing someone else. Anyone who's ever tried to remove a bullet from their back, bandage their gaping head wound, set their broken bone, or frantically stop their own bleeding will attest to the fact that medical care is most effective when someone else is administering it. This would let scientists use fewer kits in the field without making them better at healing themselves (which I think would be too useful). As a result, they wouldn't need to spend as much time in medical huts, which I think is the whole idea. — Elembis (talk) 00:28, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

This should be indented, since it's a response to Elembis's post. However, it would be rather crowded if I did that, so here you go. With that out of the way, on to business. You're correct that part of the reason for this suggestion is to reduce the amount of time spent in healing huts. It's also intended to boost the supply of FAK's. Your suggestion would somewhat reduce the demand, which would have essentially the same effect.

As for the inconsistency, that's part of why I suggested calling it "Make FAK." If you've ever spent the night in a healing hut while wounded, you know that SOMEBODY is going to heal you up while you're gone. However, the way I see it, they aren't going to use everything in that kit. Cutlass wounds require different treatment than poison dart wounds, for instance. That means there's going to be a lot of unused medical material around. Realistically speaking, there's probably also going to be some medical supplies that aren't part of a kit. By calling it "make FAK," you can get a message saying, "Using spare supplies, you cobble together a first aid kit." Now, the shaman is slightly different but the result is the same. The medical hut message says there are many herbs hanging up to dry. The shaman could get a message saying, "After looking through the herbs in the hut, you find a healing herb that is ready for use."

Also, I don't want you to think I'm ignoring your suggestion about the extra five HP healing. I definitely agree that it's more realistic to have a healer be better at healing others than themselves. I'd be happy to see it as one of the skills (maybe split that into a seperate discussion?). However, I'm not sure that's enough of a bonus by itself to tempt people to play the rather underplayed scientist class. Warriors and soldiers have extremely helpful skill; I think the other classes should as well. And as always, I appreciate your input, Elembis and LtL. Black Joe 6:11 2 August 2006

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-RE: Beer and Rum becoming more expensive if the skill is implemented- I completely agree, and the increase in price would also represent supplies of booze at the pirate camp running out, which I guess would then lead to outsiders trading beer and rum with the pirates, and adding another dimension to gameplay- [[User:Peg-Hand Grimm|Peg-Hand Grimm]]
+*RE: Beer and Rum becoming more expensive if the skill is implemented- I completely agree, and the increase in price would also represent supplies of booze at the pirate camp running out, which I guess would then lead to outsiders trading beer and rum with the pirates, and adding another dimension to gameplay- [[User:Peg-Hand Grimm|Peg-Hand Grimm]]
-Nice idea. In general I like the idea of making items have some specific use rather than generic AP-insreasers. But how about making it a gamble to take a drink instead of a definite combat-booster. If a pirate were to drink a bottle of rum, his next 5 or 10 AP would either give him +1 damage for every hit (with "flavor text" to let him know he is getting a boost, e.g. "In a drunken rage you inflict more damage on your target"), or it would make him too disoriented and out of it to do anything, and every time he attacks it would give him flavor text telling him he is too uncoordinated to attack, and he stumbles around unable to do anything (he would stay in place, not respond to comannds to attack but waste an AP anyway) till the intoxication wears off in 5 or 10 AP. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:16, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
+*Nice idea. In general I like the idea of making items have some specific use rather than generic AP-insreasers. But how about making it a gamble to take a drink instead of a definite combat-booster. If a pirate were to drink a bottle of rum, his next 5 or 10 AP would either give him +1 damage for every hit (with "flavor text" to let him know he is getting a boost, e.g. "In a drunken rage you inflict more damage on your target"), or it would make him too disoriented and out of it to do anything, and every time he attacks it would give him flavor text telling him he is too uncoordinated to attack, and he stumbles around unable to do anything (he would stay in place, not respond to comannds to attack but waste an AP anyway) till the intoxication wears off in 5 or 10 AP. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:16, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
+**The goal is simply to encourage pirates to drink in combat. A chance of uncoordinated failure would be realistic, but it would also make things a little more complicated, so I'd let Simon make that decision if he decides to implement this suggestion. The effect of my original suggestion would be about the same (for fully skilled pirates) if drunk pirates had a damage bonus of +2 (instead of +1) and 10% less accuracy. &mdash; [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 05:01, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
-This doesn't make sense to me.  When your drunk, your hand eye coordination GETS WORSE, not better!  The only way I could see the idea working is if accuracy decreased as damage increased.  Rewarding pirates for getting sloshed makes about as much sense as drunk driving.  Another way to implement this would be to temporarily increase HP with rum ingestion, as this is at least slightly similar to the actual affects of alcohol (kind of like drunken boxing.)  Otherwise, I don't see this working. [[User:Gandhi|Gandhi]] 04:20, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
+*This doesn't make sense to me.  When your drunk, your hand eye coordination GETS WORSE, not better!  The only way I could see the idea working is if accuracy decreased as damage increased.  Rewarding pirates for getting sloshed makes about as much sense as drunk driving.  Another way to implement this would be to temporarily increase HP with rum ingestion, as this is at least slightly similar to the actual affects of alcohol (kind of like drunken boxing.)  Otherwise, I don't see this working. [[User:Gandhi|Gandhi]] 04:20, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
+**The idea is to encourage pirates to drink like a pirate would (and in the situations a pirate would), even if doing so is a bad idea in real life. I'd be fine with lowering accuracy even while damage is increased, so long as the overall effect is the same, but that may be an unnecessary complication (my suggestion doesn't increase accuracy, only damage). Your point (that drinking impairs in real life) is a good one, but I think this is a case where the game would be more fun if it diverged slightly from real life. &mdash; [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 05:01, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
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Difference between revisions of "Suggestions:Skills"

Revision as of 05:01, 27 August 2006

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Skills

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Alchemy

Spirit Substantiation

Marksmanship

Hut Construction (Simplified)

Spirit Transfer

Hunting Prowess

Emergency medicine

Give explorers/scouts their own tracking skill

Melee buffs for intoxicated pirates

Technical “spell” skills

Haggle

FAK/Healing Herb Manufacturing Skills

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