Talk:Suggestions

Slith has proposed the adoption of a suggestion template, much like that which is used on the Urban Dead wiki. I have taken a little liberty with the design and have modified it slightly to have borders and include the author's name. I propose that this template be worked on for a week and then formally adopted. --Lint 05:21, 24 March 2006 (GMT)

• Well, it's over a week and no one seems to object. I'll be setting up the suggestion pages with example template usage. --Lint 23:10, 5 April 2006 (BST)

Lets use a suggestion template

Lets use a suggestion template

Like the one from Urbandead, Because honestly this page is very messy

Suggestion Name

Author	Timestamp	Type	Scope
Slith	18:24, 19 March 2006 (GMT)	Skill, balance change, improvement, etc	Who or what it applies to

Full description. Check spelling and be descriptive.

Comments

• Comments here

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Style Guidelines

Perhaps a little formatting is needed for this page. Where do we append the new suggestions on this page? I've seen them stacked on top and I've seen them placed at the bottom. I've been placing them at the bottom. In theory that gives the users an opportunity to scan the list to see if something similarly listed is already there. --Lint 06:28, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

Also, replies. Should we use the indentations from colons (:) or the bulleted lists (*). I'm sort of leaning towards bulleted lists, but they make it difficult to form multiple paragraphs and require all the replies to be directly one line below the other which is horrible to read when editing. The colons are nice, especially with all the freedom they provide, but it becomes a bit difficult to see who is replying to what. --Lint 06:28, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

Maybe we should break it up into pages by suggestion type, like a skills page, item page, ect. and if people have a big suggestion they could go into a large suggestion page(for suggesting a skill and item).-- Daylan 00:45, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

I think that we all have slightly different interpretations of what suggestions fall under what sections. It would probably be more straight-forward to just list suggestions chronologically and move the old suggestions to Suggestions/Archives (or something like that) and implemented suggestions to Suggestions/Implemented (or something like that). --Lint 02:18, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

I think it'd be easier to keep good suggestions on the same page, move implemented ones off to another page and things that are considered by most people to be a bad idea can get pushed to a different page to be ignored, revisited later, or whatever. --Simon 09:38, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

I guess Dr. J broke the page up by suggestion type this morning. --Berry 16:14, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

Sorry, I'd missed this page and discussion somehow. --Dr. J 16:19, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

I can understand the different type of suggestions implied by Items, Skills, and Classes. However, Game Mechanics and Other, I'm no so clear on. Are these two categories really separate? --Lint 17:39, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

Perhaps just merge Game Mechanics and Other under a single "Other" page. It doesn't seem to be too bad like this, although we probably need an "Implemented" page still for things like Writing. --Simon 17:41, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

We could still have a good suggestion page, just move the good suggestions after a couple of days and move the bad ones to an archive page.-- Daylan 21:34, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

Another section?

The suggestions pages (particularly game mechanics) is getting quite long. It wouldn't be a bad idea to create another section to handle the very old. I noticed that someone created some pages to archive old suggestions. Could we use those?--Wulla-mullung 17:22, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

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Exorcism

Author	Timestamp	Type	Scope
Wifey	04:12, 6 May 2006 (BST)	Skill, requires Sixth Sense	Shamans, possibly others

As my shaman character tries to appease an evil spirit verbally, begging it in vain to leave his poor village alone, I find myself wondering why he cannot, as his village shaman had before him, placate the spirits and protect himself and others from them. Now, the way I roleplay the character, it makes perfect sense; he is not yet truly a shaman, but training in the shamanic arts as one of the Raktam shaman's apprentices.

I'm actually considering two or three ideas here, but, to save space, I'm suggesting it as one. Please give me your thoughts on both, and which one you prefer. For both of these ideas for skills, I'm thinking Shaman-only. I don't like restricting things to only one side, but shamans are the only ones for whom it really seems to make sense. Perhaps the addition of a Priest or Missionary class for outsiders would change this?

The first idea, Exorcism, is an active ability. When a spirit is present in your "block," you can Exorcise them for 1 AP, shunting them out of it 1 square in a random direction (if inside a building, simply out of it). Now, moving them one square away is hardly a block from further spiritual attacks, so perhaps this could also keep spirits from entering the block for a certain time period? I'm thinking perhaps 24 hours. Not a terrible restraint. Still, it keeps them out for a while. This would probably look good on a Missionary/Priest.

The second idea doesn't really have a name yet. I'm thinking, perhaps, Placation. For now, let's pretend that's the name. Placation is a passive ability. It does not restrict the movement of spirits, but, rather, restricts what they can do in your presence. When a shaman (for this feels like it would be more in line with the Shaman class than Exorcism) learns this, spirits are no longer capable of wailing and screaming in his presence. Rather, while in the same "block" as the shaman, they get the same message that they used to get when trying to scream and wail in a village; that the present shaman is blocking it. They could still stay in the area, and they could speak via Ghostly Whisper, but they cannot Scream or Wail.

So. Thoughts? eally, this is less of a suggestion and more of a proto-suggestion. A quick jotting down of my thoughts on this, so that, through discussion, it can form into a defined suggestion. Hence my placing it in the Discussion page.

Comments
I like Exorcism, particularly since i was writing up my own "Spirit Turning" suggestion. I'd change it by having the skill push a spirit 1-5 squares away in a random direction, but with no time limit - seems that would be a lot of overhead to keep track of, and as a spirit AP spent moving is a bit valuable. Perhaps also add a percentage chance for success, or a heavier AP requirement to use the skill. I don't like Placation being a passive skill - the end result is an island on which screaming and wailing are useless. Maybe better if placation only worked in certain areas, like villages. Scientists should be able to use both skills - a full anthropological study of native lore has resulted in the scientist's knowledge of such matters. --Frisco 17:45, 6 May 2006 (BST)

I thought about the "multiply it by 10,000" rule for placation, but, to be honest... Not all natives are shamans. As a matter of fact, only 35% are. I would see no problem with an "only villages" restriction on it, though. Regarding Exorcism, I also had thought about pushing spirits out multiple squares. Then I thought, "What about when they're inside buildings? How do you handle it then?" I also thought of it randomly teleporting them to an entirely random spot within 50 squares of one's place on the map (and doing away with the warding bit of it). Re-reading Kate Elliot's Crown of Stars series, I had another idea: placing wards against spirits (evil or otherwise) on huts. It would, of course, only block them from entering the warded hut, and the ward wold have to be temporary. That idea is still very early in its formative stages, though.--Wifey 18:08, 6 May 2006 (BST)

I'm uneasy with so much power being given just to the Shamans because the Outsiders are suffering just as badly. I like this ward proposal because it allows for all types and classes to have access to the ability. If these are physical tokens placed on huts (like signposts, destroyable) it would be advantageous for the hometown to maintain wards and it would be advantageous for invanding armies to tear these down so they can have a spirit foothold as well. Placing a ward on an enterable village building or shipwreck compartment could simply prevent spirits from entering and eject spirits currently inside. The ruins and whatnot can remain ward-less. --Re:Placate/Exorcism: I think Placate could be acceptable if it only reduced the chance of damage slightly to the Shaman, not eliminate it completely. Without access to GPS, I think spirits get lost easily in the jungle so I can see a forceful banishing Exorcism being extremely powerful forcing them to ultimately give up and Contact a Shaman. It would require a percent chance and high AP cost to balance out. I'd be more easy with these being Shaman-exclusive powers if the Scientists or Outsiders in general got a skill boost as well. --Lint 20:09, 6 May 2006 (BST)

Would wards need be any different than regular writing, just done by people with the ward-writing skill? This way there's a pre-existing mechanism for them to exist and to be removed - Simon need only add a flag that a given text blob is a ward, and a checkbox added for those with the skill. Write anything anywhere and for +1AP it is also a ward. Others (maybe only spirits or others with the skill?) who read the ward should also see some indication that it is a ward. --Frisco 01:40, 7 May 2006 (BST)

Er... I actually wasn't thinking of a ward being a physical item. Rather, I thought a hut would be warded through shamanic rites and rituals. Thus, it would still be a skill. I don't think more than one class per side (as obviously both sides need some measure of defense) should have access to such protection, though; certainly, warding a hut will protect everyone inside, but we don't want to let everyone ward huts. That just means that, no matter what, all huts (and the ship, and anything else wardable) will end up warded all the time. By limiting it to only Shamans on the native side, and either some missionary class or scientists (ugh. Scientists wouldn't perform shamanic rituals; they're scientists. They'll study them, but not perform), the skill will be harder to abuse and spirits will still be playable.--Wifey 02:08, 7 May 2006 (BST)

Scientists i picture are more like Hopkins' Professor Van Helsing in Coppola's Dracula or Sutherland's Dr. Cid in Final Fantasy - willing to devote scientific study to the supernatural and use the skills/knowledge gained therein. IIRC Van Helsing's the one who drew wards on the ground outside Dracula's castle, but it's been a while since i saw the flick. I like wards following the writing paradigm as this adds less change to the game and keeps the ward system fluid. --Frisco 23:20, 9 May 2006 (BST)

Come on, people! I need to hear a bit more feedback than this.--Wifey 18:17, 9 May 2006 (BST)

I think of exorcism as more of a protection type skill. As Banshee Wailing becomes more prevalent in towns across Shartak, shamans should be able to hone into the spirit world to ward off evil spirits. I think of this skill as similar to barricading a building - the more a shaman blesses a building, the longer it takes for a spirit to penetrate the force and enter the building. Another way to implement this would be for shamans to bless people, making it harder for banshee wailing to affect them. I don't like the term exorcism, because that implies on evil spirit possessing a living body, which has yet to happen on Shartak. A skill like "Blessing" or "Prayer" I think is more appropriate thematically. --Gandhi 02:41, 17 May 2006 (BST)

Exactly how I imagined warding. A sort of prayer ritual.--Wifey 02:58, 17 May 2006 (BST) Edit: How would you like that to be implemented, if you had your way? That is to say, would yu like it to last a certain amount of time (perhaps a small amount of stackable time, thus requiring a lot of AP to keep it for a long period of time)? Would you like it to actually function as a barricade, in that the spirit can wear it down somehow?--Wifey 03:24, 17 May 2006 (BST) Edit(2): This question is for everyone, mind you. I want more opinions, so we can come to a decision.--Wifey 03:50, 17 May 2006 (BST)

So then, wards are temporary (active for some sort of limited time), used outside of hut/ship comparments (which requires a pulldown menu when there are multiple targets in an area), and exclusive to shamans. Some new questions are: Can they fail? - I think there should be a success rate, Can they stack? - I don't think it's neccessary, Costs AP? - More than 1 AP surely, Earns XP? - I don't think it needs to, Required item? - An interesting opportunity to make useless items useful (maybe poisonous snakes and gourds of water), Friendly spirits? - Rather than ejecting spirits, I feel the wards should act like the shaman chanting and prevent only screaming. (I am adverse to adding new classes [although a Priest/Missionary might be a better counterpart to Shamans than Scientists] and would like to see Scientists granted the ability to perform the warding rituals [perhaps their wards last for a shorter period of time or are more succeptible to failure] provided they have a prerequisite understanding of shaman mysticism [a Research skill or just Native Knowledge]? There might also be a need for a cursing countermeasure available to spirits which have a low chance of breaking a ward.) --Lint 21:56, 27 May 2006 (BST)

How about something like this? --Simon 22:38, 27 May 2006 (BST)

• Wards are some kind of item that either prevents spirits moving into the same square or else prevents them from wailing etc (i.e doesn't hurt friendly spirits but stops evil spirits making a nuisance of themselves).
• Maybe forces them outside if used inside a hut or ship cabin as well but doesn't.
• The item can only be made (from a prerequisite item perhaps?) by a shaman with a special skill and plenty of AP
• Item can be used by any native, or any outsider with native knowledge
• Once used, the item is effective for a period of between a day and a week (to be decided) after which it loses it power - either that or there's some way for a spirit to destroy it (probably achieved similar to moving through densest jungle without a machete - click to move, fail to push through, stay where you are)

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Placement of Suggestions

I think that Template:Suggestions_header should be changed to indicate whether to add new suggestions to the top or the bottom of the page. As it is people are mixing it up randomly, with some new ones ending up at the top and others at the bottom. Perhaps change it to say, "Please add new suggestions to the (top/bottom) of the page. To use the template, enter the following, but replace emboldened text with text appropriate to your suggestion:" Which way is it supposed to be, and can someone fix that? --Buttercup 03:57, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Bottom is the custom that I learnt or picked up somewhere. Agree with your suggestion to amend the template --Johan Crichton 04:07, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing that. --Buttercup 16:38, 18 April 2008 (UTC)