Talk:Trading hut stock reports

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Scripting

It might be possible to whip up a script to strip out this information from the pulldown menu, but for now I'm using view-selection source and replacing the HTML tags. --Lint 19:58, 3 May 2006 (BST)

Same here, I cut and paste to microsoft word and then replace (wild cards) "\<*\>" with "" and "^p" with ", ^p". But a greasemonkey script that automatically shipped the data would be much more stylin. --Tycho44 20:03, 3 May 2006 (BST)
There is such a script; see The Shartak Wiki:Community Portal#Greasemonkey scripts. — Elembis (talk) 21:55, 5 June 2006 (BST)

Formatting

I think the most useful way to display this information is to use a table with a row for each trading hut and a column for each item, like this:

Trading hut stock reports
Camp Updated Cut bTb Bul Crb Rif Man Blo Dag Ban Gem Drt GPS FAK ShS bPb Mac bCut BotWat bMac Snk HH Rum Wood gc Beer Gou Kni
Dalpok 04:25, 28 May 2006 (BST) x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Derby 04:25, 28 May 2006 (BST) x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Durham 04:25, 28 May 2006 (BST) x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Raktam 04:25, 28 May 2006 (BST)
Shipwreck 04:25, 28 May 2006 (BST) x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Wiksik 04:25, 28 May 2006 (BST) x x x x x x x x x x x x
York 04:25, 28 May 2006 (BST) x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x

(NB: finished column info, modified column titles, modified some table options. Tycho44 21:56, 2 June 2006 (BST))

(An "x" means that hut has that item. Also, I count 28 items in the game, so there are 28 item columns here). This would let people tell at a glance which items were rare, or where to find a certain item. It wouldn't let people track trader inventories over time, but I don't think that would be useful. Also, I would be glad to write a Greasemonkey script which would get a string (like "||x||x|| ||x...") from a trader's <select> tag, to make it easier for people to add to the table. — Elembis (talk) 04:25, 28 May 2006 (BST)

I think that the most useful way would be to have a separate table for each town. The time variation in the trading stock at a particular town is very important, whereas players are less likely to need to directly compare current inventories in different towns. After all, it takes several days to travel to a foreign town: (1) in that time, you could have searched thousands of dollars of equipment in a local hut, (2) if you're about to undertake a trading voyage, you're probably more concerned about whether gems or GPS units might reappear in the next couple days in that foreign town than whether GPS units are there right now, which means that the previous stock history is at least as important as the current stock. --Tycho44 06:07, 28 May 2006 (BST)
You're right, a table for each camp would work just as well. When I have time to visit a trading hut I can get the HTML I need for my script. How do you think items should be sorted? It'd be easiest and fastest to use the order in which they appear in a trader's inventory list, but I don't know whether GPS units or poison darts come first, nor where heavy swords go in the list; the order of everything else I have figured out. — Elembis (talk) 21:31, 28 May 2006 (BST)
Poison Darts before GPS units. Ignore the 28th column; if the Trading Hut ever stocks a Heavy Sword, your greasemonkey script should break and a champagne bottle should ride out on the computer's cd tray. --Tycho44 21:52, 2 June 2006 (BST)

Here's Trading Hut view source from Trader Harry. I removed most of my inventory, and censored a final value="###" that I didn't understand. The next formblock is give-gold or something. 


<form class="formblock" method="POST" action="/game.cgi"><input class="txbuttonsubmit" type="submit" value="Trade"> my <select name="uobj"><option value="09">gold coin</option>
<option value="08">gps unit</option>
<option value="06">first aid kit</option>
<option value="0I" selected="selected">bottle of water</option></select> for <select name="tobj"><option value="0R">cutlass</option>
<option value="05">rifle bullet</option>
<option value="0O">crab</option>
<option value="04">rifle</option>
<option value="0F">mango</option>
<option value="02" selected="selected">blowpipe</option>
<option value="0P">dagger</option>
<option value="0E">banana</option>
<option value="0Q">gem</option>
<option value="03">poison dart</option>
<option value="08">gps unit</option>
<option value="06">first aid kit</option>
<option value="0B">sharpening stone</option>
<option value="01">machete</option>
<option value="0I">bottle of water</option>
<option value="0C">blunt machete</option>
<option value="09">gold coin</option>
<option value="0T">knife</option>
<option value="0M">bottle of beer</option>
<option value="0D">gourd of water</option></select><input type="hidden" name="action" value="query"><input type="hidden" name="trader" value="####"></form>
<br/>


--Tycho44 21:52, 2 June 2006 (BST)

Thanks. Here's the script. — Elembis (talk) 07:02, 3 June 2006 (BST)
A couple of minor glitches have been smoothed out. Anyone who downloaded the script before the time of this message's posting should install it again to ensure that they have the correct version. — Elembis (talk) 07:41, 3 June 2006 (BST)

The new world of Trading

Ideally, our stock reports would show the exact quantities in the trader's inventory whenever possible. It is important to know not just what items are in stock, but whether the items are double-short (he'll buy from you at 2x price), short (he'll buy at normal price but only sells at 2x), normal price, long (he'll buy for less but sells at normal), or double-long (he'll buy and sell at reduced price). Although an 'x' in a column is better than nothing, the table should probably easily allow for a quantity notation and/or codes for short and long inventory quantities. For example, most outsider towns have machetes double-long (selling at about $24), whereas the pirate trader machetes are double-short (he buys at $200). --Tycho44 06:07, 28 May 2006 (BST)

Proposed Table Format:

Trading hut stock reports
Camp Updated Cut bTb Bul Crb Rif Man Blo Dag Ban Gem Drt GPS FAK ShS bPb Mac bCut BotWat bMac Snk HH Rum Wood gc Beer Gou Kni
Camp Updated Cut bTb Bul Crb Rif Man Blo Dag Ban Gem Drt GPS FAK ShS bPb Mac bCut BotWat bMac Snk HH Rum Wood gc Beer Gou Kni
Dalpok 05:57, 5 June 2006 (BST) 3++ 14 0 0 N N N N N N L 0 0 N S N S 0 6++ 0 2+ 0 0 N 0 S N

Legend

  • x = In Stock, quantities unknown
  • N = In Stock, normal stock prices
  • L = Long Stock, cheaper prices
  • S = Short Stock, twice normal price
  • 14 = exactly 14 in stock
  • 3++ = at least 3 in stock
  • 0 = Out of Stock

Comments

This information is indeed important, but I recommend that we use a style that accomodates the color-free space/x style (which is quite easy to use, since the Greasemonkey script does it all) and can be extended from there. With that in mind, the changes I would make to your style recommendations would be to:

  1. Represent empty stocks with empty cells instead of zeros, making it easier to visually differentiate stocked items from unstocked ones.
  2. Signify long/short/normal prices with background colors only (which may be your intention): long with #dfd, normal with #ffd, short with #fdd, and unknown with no special background color at all. These colors are easier on the eyes and still easy to tell apart, and they distinguish between "normal prices (I checked)" and "unknown prices (I didn't check)", which the current color scheme doesn't do. Submitters shouldn't be required to check the prices of every item.
  3. Use just one plus for "at least x in stock".

Here's what my table would look like (with the "Camp" column removed):

Trading hut stock reports
Updated Cut bTb Bul Crb Rif Man Blo Dag Ban Gem Drt GPS FAK ShS bPb Mac bCut BotWat bMac Snk HH Rum Wood gc Beer Gou Kni
05:57, 5 June 2006 (BST) 3+ 14 x x x x x x x x x x x 6+ 2+ x x x

— Elembis (talk) 08:05, 5 June 2006 (BST)

What about using different colors for each of:
  • out of stock (Greasemonkey) (eg red)
  • in stock, levels unknown (Greasemonkey) (eg grey)
  • in stock, long (eg grey or blue or whatever)
  • in stock, normal (eg green)
  • in stock, short (eg yellow)

A problem with your arrangement is that I don't understand whether a empty grey cell is unverified, no information, normal stock, or typo: From a human factors perspective, trader-out-of-stock cells should scream death and destruction, short-stock cells should signal caution, and normal cells should have a safe color. In my opinion, the long color should warn in its own way, because long-stock items are especially worthless to carry to the trader. (A greasemonkey script could accomodate colors -- the only thing the Script can't do is check actual item counts, short stock, and long stock, all those should have a grey ("no info") color.)

Trading hut stock reports
Updated Cut bTb Bul Crb Rif Man Blo Dag Ban Gem Drt GPS FAK ShS bPb Mac bCut BotWat bMac Snk HH Rum Wood gc Beer Gou Kni
05:57, 5 June 2006 (BST) 3+ 14 x x x x x x x x x x x 6+ 2+ x x x

The use of color words instead of hex codes is a minor point, but when editing the page it is hard to figure out which of #fdd and #dfd and #ddf to use, whereas LemonChiffon is descriptive. On the Urban Dead wiki, some of the Suburb Danger Reports and Zombie Weather Maps appeared to get more traffic (and got much more accurate entries from new contributors) when we switched over to color words instead of hex codes.

Trading hut stock reports
Updated Cut bTb Bul Crb Rif Man Blo Dag Ban Gem Drt GPS FAK ShS bPb Mac bCut BotWat bMac Snk HH Rum Wood gc Beer Gou Kni
05:57, 5 June 2006 (BST) 3+ 14 x x x x x x x x x x x 6+ 2+ x x x
This is just another suggestion; I'd be happy to see more proposals. My main point is that the chart should communicate that "empty cell = very bad" -- or very good, if you're bringing in the goods -- "completely out of stock" is not a neutral event. --Tycho44 01:23, 6 June 2006 (BST)
Color words are fine by me. I think an empty stock should be signified with a "0" instead of a space so that every empty grey cell (i.e., default formatting and content) means "stock unknown, price unknown" (i.e., default knowledge); changing the Greasemonkey script will be a cinch. Also, I'd use MistyRose as the background color for empty stocks instead of Pink, since I find the latter distractingly bold and the former still easy to see. (And keep in mind that #f9f9f9 should be the background color for the entire table, for consistency's sake, unless we have a good reason to use something else. With #f9f9f9 as the default color, PaleGreen works better than Honeydew, even if it does stand out a bit too much.) All in all, here's what I'd like to see:
Trading hut stock reports
Updated Cut bTb Bul Crb Rif Man Blo Dag Ban Gem Drt GPS FAK ShS bPb Mac bCut BotWat bMac Snk HH Rum Wood gc Beer Gou Kni
05:57, 5 June 2006 (BST) 3+ 14 0 0 x x x x x x x 0 0 x x x 1+ 0 6+ 0 2+ 0 0 x 0 x x
— Elembis (talk) 06:37, 6 June 2006 (BST)
  • Affirmed, I'm correcting typos on column span (28) and Snake (0 = mistyrose) and Dart (L is long):
Trading hut stock reports
Updated Cut bTb Bul Crb Rif Man Blo Dag Ban Gem Drt GPS FAK ShS bPb Mac bCut BotW bMac Snk HH Rum Wood gc Beer Gou Kni
05:57, 5 June 2006 (BST) 3+ 14 0 0 x x x x x x 99+ 0 0 x x 99+ 1+ 0 6+ 0 2+ 0 0 x 0 x x
05:57, 5 June 2006 (BST) 3+ 14 0 0 x x x x x x 99+ 0 0 x x 99+ 1+ 0 6+ 0 2+ 0 0 x 0 x x

Since "BotWat" is longer than 3% on my monitor, I'd be glad to see BotW or BWat or BW or BH2O or Bh2o (and GH2O) or most anything 2-4 letters long. I think that 99+ for Long is low, but you didn't seem to like the L and S for long and short. I wouldn't mind using "OUT" and "LONG" for 0 and 99+, but using only numbers (and 'x') has aesthetic appeal as well. --Tycho44 21:01, 7 June 2006 (BST)

The script will soon be updated to use "0" instead of " " for empty stocks. — Elembis (talk) 03:14, 8 June 2006 (BST)

Preparing for the new column order

Trader lists are now sorted by item ID, so the Greasemonkey script needs to be changed, and columns on this article need to be rearranged. See User:Elembis/Sandbox#Item IDs for a list of known IDs; the script will be updated once IDs for blunt cutlasses and bottles of rum are known. — Elembis (talk) 07:18, 9 June 2006 (BST)

  • I put the IDs for blunt cutlasses and bottles of rum into your Sandbox. --Tycho44 07:27, 9 June 2006 (BST)


Arbitrageur Warnings

Native hut trader refused to double-short blunt machetes upon my initial purchase. Perhaps we now have to wait a few clicks (or a day) to persuade him that they're scarce... Tycho44 00:19, 17 June 2006 (BST)

Abbriviations?

Could someone maybe put what the item abbreviations stand for on the page? It might make it easier for other newbs like me to read the charts.--Henry Jones Jr. 05:53, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Several Issues

1: Has this project died? There has been only one change to the discussion page since 2006!

2: I second the idea of having an abbreviation key. Some of the acronyms are pretty self explanatory, but others are very much not.

3: Unless I'm very mistaken, there are quite a few more items now then when these reports were last edited. This might require a change in format.

4: Is anyone even paying attention? --Desperado99 20:50, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi! Welcome to the Wiki. To answer your questions in order:

1. Essentially, yes. Most of the people who used to do this have left the game. 2. I agree. 3. Yes, it's been so long, there have been a number of things implemented. 4. Yes, we are. However, the player base's attention has shifted away from statistics and more toward role-playing and simulation. Thus, there's just not as much interest in this. If you're interested in reviving it, feel free to do so. It might encourage others to do the same.--Black Joe 23:18, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

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