View source for Talk:Identify Friend or Foe

|I think the premise behind friend or foe is a good one, and suggest the Scavengers use it. Unfortunately to the Scavengers everyone are foe, so it wouldn't much matter would it? I didn't have any gold till this came along, and now people are paying me to slay them. '''-Armadox the Butcher,Leader of the Scavengers. Warlord of the First Blood.'''|

I have to confess that I'm kind of wary of user-related templates and categories as they have a tendency to get out of hand. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 02:43, 3 June 2006 (BST)

I find the functional logic behind this initiave highly flawed. I could take a player down to 1 HP, then leave him be, and still be considered "friendly". Furthermore, I could retaliate from a player of another group attacking me, and be permanently branded hostile. Killing another player of a rival group should not permanently label that player as hostile forever, as it doesn't take into account his current behavior or those circumstances. Finally, its much easier to barefist punch a player to reveal this same info, as it has a low chance of actually hitting, and causes nominal damage. Gold is not (yet) such a worthless commodity to give to players out of hand simply to discover if they've ever killed. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 05:02, 3 June 2006 (BST)

::In my opinion, the fundamental purpose of giving gold is to be able to get the character's ID number, which allows you to read their profile. I agree that the wording of the initiative is flawed -- what you do with the information that you gain should be entirely at your discretion. If you are Baron von Friendly, and the native profile says "Hakhak's purpose in life is to slay his nemesis, the tyrannical Baron von Friendly" then of course you should be allowed to attack Hakhak, even if he has no faction kills. (In the other direction, Jackel's criticism is misguided: nowhere does the IFF initiative obligate you to ATTACK anyone or label them hostile. Give 1 gold, find out that it's the Butcher_of_Your_Camp_Here, so what, give him some more gold and a pat on the back if you want, that's always your privilege.) ... The important part is taking the step of spending 1 gold and 1 AP to examine a target. That's a huge step away from gratuitous cross-class violence, and few players (if any) are going to waste resources pursuing Identify Friend or Foe tactics steps 1 and 2, only to indiscriminantly kill targets that don't have friendly-faction kills. So in my opinion the IFF initiative should emphasize the gc-spending process, and allow players to make their own judgements based on the clan and description as well as the number of PKs. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 08:19, 8 June 2006 (BST)
:::Misguided how? As written, the IFF clearly defines a policy of discovering a player's kill history, and using it to identify that player as hostile or not hostile to a particular group, with the expectation that so-identified "hostile" players are free (not necessarily obligated) to be attacked and that "non-hostile" players should be left alone. I disagree with Tycho44, I actually think the '''how''' of IFF (i.e. how a player's kill history is revealed) is '''less important''' to the '''why''', which is the use of IFF as a means of establishing the "attackability" of an encountered player. My primary concern is that a player's kill history is a flawed expectation of how they will treat all other players of that group, and I think my examples speak for themselves.  --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 18:58, 8 June 2006 (BST) 
:Yeah, i've been using the highly refined 'IFF Bitchslap' technique to identify natives I'm meant to be co-operating with, and have only caused a few bruised egos.  I like the thinking behind the gold-giving idea, but those little shiny coins dont come free.  Although I agree with some of Jackel's criticisms, being able to view somebody's profile is a huge advantage; for a start, that little bit that says 'Clan membership: WickSick Headhunters', or 'Outsiders Killed: 58' is a pretty good guide, and besides, what sort of freak goes around knocking people down to 1AP and then leaving them? (apart from me on UD, but thats just funny. Shartak doesn't have infectious bite and feeding groan, so most of the comedy value and suspense would be lost in this situation)  --Gitboy 11:21, 3June 2006 (BST)

::The Pseudo-IFF Punch is a frequently used alternative to IFF give1gold, and certainly preferable to the IFF Machete that my "friends" seem to use. As a participant in the IFF, I'm announcing that I find it well worth it to spend a gold piece here and there to avoid causing harm to friendlies on the other side. I hope that enough participants will join IFF to keep gold flowing both ways. Anyone can earn 15 gold coins in a single day using the Medical/Herbal Hut and the Trading Hut. If you are fastidious about wasting a Med Kit to repair any harm that you cause with your Punches, you're probably just as well using Give-1-Gold. Each Med Kit is worth 2+ gold. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 08:19, 8 June 2006 (BST)

I've noticed that the option of giving nothing is now available under the selection for giving gold.  This makes it possible to identify a person without losing gold.  Therefore, the IFF no longer serves a purpose. --[[User:Gandhi|Gandhi]] 22:49, 6 June 2006 (BST)

:I would argue that the IFF still serves a purpose, since you still need to go through th rigmarole of not giving them a gold goin; this just makes it a lot cheaper to do so.  The IFF project now has my full support, cheapskate that I am :)  -- Gitboy 10:15, 7 June 2006

::I will support it if the language is changed.  Since it's no longer necessary to give a gold coin, say so on the IFF page.  I'd rather have no IFF than a bunch of new comers to the Island giving away all their booty.  I would change it to say that one should use the Give: -Nothing- option to identify a person. --[[User:Gandhi|Gandhi]] 16:43, 7 June 2006 (BST)

:::I've tried giving nothing to an outsider, and all I got is a message like "The outsider doesn't appear very impressed by your generosity!" That is, I didn't ID them, so it may still be necessary to give gold (meaning the "--Nothing--" entry is to prevent accidental giving). At least giving nothing didn't (seem to) use any AP. &mdash; [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 17:28, 7 June 2006 (BST)

::::Yeah, I just got that as well.  Dammit.  Maybe we should lobby Simon?  Still it's not as if a handful of gold coins is particularly easy to come by; just search the medical hut for a bit, then sell the kits/herbs.  Or you could just stand in the middle of a settlement (of the other class) and  see how many people IFF you... --Gitboy 19:42, 7 June 2006

:1. If we have "a bunch of new comers to the Island giving away all their booty", then what we need is an "Identify How to Play Shartak" initiative. One day in a Resource Hut and a few AP in the Trading Hut earns more gold coins than you'll be able to use in a week of IFF. Just how many different locations containing enemies are you trying to identify, anyway, and for what purpose? Give 1 gold only IDs the top member in a stack of foreigners. 
:2. Or just add a phrase to the wiki page like: "Naturally, supporters of the IFF initiative consider themselves relatively wealthy inhabitants of the island -- rich in their generosity, if not also rich in coinage..." Join the IFF at your own expense, or not, that's your choice. 
:3. Standing in the middle of a settlement of the other class is currently a one-way ticket to the Shaman. That's part of the point of the IFF initiative -- to stop the indiscriminate slaughter that characterizes all 7 camps of today's Shartak. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 08:19, 8 June 2006 (BST)

::Perhaps more to the point, there are not 7 camps, in the sense of cohesive groups who work together. The vast majority of players seem to work for themselves only, or perhaps a clan. Aside from the split between native and outsider, which is largely a function of language, and the fact that a certain kind of character is usually created to originate from the Shipwreck, the various camps do not exist as distinct political enemies. I think the IFF accomplishes only two things: it reminds newbies to check to see if someone is generally violent or not, and creates some goodwill among players as gold gets handed back and forth. It would be MUCH more useful if the ID page showed numbers of kills by both camp and clan. Or, perhaps if the profile page had an actual list of links to the folks the character has killed... allowing those viewing the profile to make their own judgments.--[[User:Nosimplehiway|Nosimplehiway]]--[[User:Nosimplehiway|Nosimplehiway]] 14:02, 28 November 2006 (UTC)