Category talk:Clans

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Options for clan implementation - please discuss and/or vote.

To vote for one of the ideas, simply add #*# ~~~ to the Votes line. To make a comment on an idea, add it to the discussion section. To add another idea, stick it at the end of the list.

  1. Clans could be a free text field and to join a clan you simply enter the correct text into the box in your profile.
    • Leadership to be decided internally amongst the clan members.
    • Votes:
      1. Daylan
  2. Make a skill that must be acquired before you can setup a new clan e.g. Clan Leadership
    • Anyone without the skill will be presented with a drop-down list of existing clans that they can join.
    • Anyone with the skill can either join an existing clan (just as a member) or can start a new clan.
    • Clan leader can exclude characters from the clan (or remove the exclusion)
    • Votes:
      1. Simon
      2. Lint
      3. One of many doctors
      4. danheretic 20:35, 18 February 2006 (GMT)
      5. Grigoriy 20:47, 25 February 2006 (GMT)
      6. Gandhi 11:34, 9 March 2006 (GMT)
      7. BananaBear 00:37, 12 March 2006 (GMT)
      8. Mad Robert 14:51, 27 March 2006 (BST)
      9. Deschain 22:04, 27 March 2006 (BST)
      10. Wifey 06:23, 28 March 2006 (BST)
      11. Oulatek
      12. Anothertwilight 06:27, 8 May 2006 (BST)
      13. Wifey 14:54, 8 May 2006 (BST) (I'd rather see it simply called "Leadership," though)
  3. Anyone can create a new clan similar to option 1.
    • First member automatically gains leadership status
    • There would be specific options available to the clan leader such as exclusions, as per option 2.
    • Votes:
      1. Bungalow Bill
      2. VTBassMatt 16:30, 17 April 2006 (BST)
      3. Condi

Further Discussion

Option 1

  • The free text field is probably the easiest clan method to design and use (it's incredibly straight-forward). But in my experience with Urban Dead, there are people joining that you don't necessarily want in your clan. And there are supposedly people claiming to be in a clan and doing unclanly things. Still the simplicity of the design makes it appealing. --Lint 21:17, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

Option 2

  • The skill option sounds like a nice alternative because it establishes someone that is experienced with the game as a leader and someone their recruits can rely on for guidance. Alternatively, you could present the ability to create a clan as a semi-rare item or a quest prize. This method would put a sizeable limit to the amount of clans (as not everyone is initially capable of making a clan) to possibly make it more manageable for the server. --Lint 21:17, 16 February 2006 (GMT)
  • Continually expelling people may become a burden for the leader - there should be an option to make a clan unlisted from the menu. In order for an unlisted clan to grow, invites would be issued out by viewing the profile pages of others and clicking a 'Invite' button. And I guess, ultimately continually expelling invites may be a burden on a player - there should be an option to unlist themselves if they prefer being alone. --Lint 21:17, 16 February 2006 (GMT)
    • Rather than unlisting yourself from receiving invites, the invites could just be on a separate page linked from your profile and if you chose to ignore them then that's up to you. Doing it this way I could add a 'decline all' button to click once in a while. --Simon 21:51, 16 February 2006 (GMT)
  • An issue with Urban Dead skills & XP is that once you've bought all the skills available, there's not much to strive for. I'm all for semi-"fluff" skills which would be purchased by those with a serious interest in RP within the game, and this seems like a candidate for that type of skill, since it doesn't confer an in-game bonus. --danheretic 20:38, 18 February 2006 (GMT)
  • I misread the details of option 2 and thought it required _members_ to have a pre-requisite skill (not just leaders). On that note, however, would people be interested in being able to set pre-requisites for clan membership (Outsiders only, Warriors and Soldiers, anyone with the Triage skill, only level 10 and above, etc.)? It would cut down on having to expel members by filtering applicants - some clans could be open to all, but others could be sufficiently restricitve that it would attract only certain players. --anothertwilight 20:38, 18 February 2006 (GMT)
  • Invites could be initiated by either the clan leader or the player, and the invites could go away after a certain period of time, so a player/leader can choose how to handle it and not worry about a collection of endless invites piling up. Accepting a member could take a low amount of XP from the leader, simulating that larger groups require more experience to manage (and giving us something to, eventually, spend all our excess XP on). Take a small amount from the person being invited if you want to discourage abuse of the system (possibly more necessary since this is becoming a somewhat complex, and therefore more compute-intensive, procedure). And to add to Simon's programming tasks, clans could also come in a couple other styles set by the clan leader - either a member is free to leave at any time or a member can only be expelled by the leader. This simulates some groups which are rather difficult to leave, such as ones that require tattoos over most of your body or other permanent characteristics that others will notice. Will there be any benefits to being in a clan, or is it solely for rp? --frisco
  • The ability to start clans should be open only to players above a certain level, like Headshot in UD, but not as high as level 10. I think this would mainly serve to curb the number of clans being formed. Another way to work this would be to only recognize clans with membership above a certain number, such as 5 active players.--Gandhi 23:44, 8 March 2006 (GMT)

Option 3

  • If you don't like any of the public clans or want to start one with a bunch of friends that just started, you're kind of stuck in option 2. This third option takes the best of both worlds - straight-forward and ingame leadership. I see a downside in how all the "good" clan names are easily taken and held by semi-active players. I've played a game where this method was used to establish temporary parties, but the disposable nature conflicts with my beliefs as to what a clan should be. --Lint 21:17, 16 February 2006 (GMT)
  • This method definitely works in some games, possibly with the addition of a level restriction on making a clan. Obviously, that wouldn't want to be too high, especially if it's implemented for joining clans: that would be one of the best ways for a newbie (like me!) to learn the game and get help... MorkaisChosen 11:17, 17 February 2006 (GMT)
  • As someone that has experienced creating and maintaining a flickr group, I don't see how the process is any different from what is described in option 3. To avoid confusion, perhaps we should merge the votes of option 4 and option 3? --Lint 03:32, 23 February 2006 (GMT)
    • MERGED --Lint 06:38, 19 April 2006 (BST)

Condi's notes:

  • Clans to be based on a system similar to Flickr groups.
    • Anyone can create a clan. There are three types: Open (anyone can join), Invite (you must be invited to join) and Apply (you can request membership).
    • The type of clan is chosen by the person who sets it up.
    • The person who sets up the group is leader and has admin rights (expulsion etc) but can also grant these to other clan members.

Questions

  • Do clans consist of Natives and Outsiders? Or only one type?
    • Simon: Doesn't matter as far as coding is concerned. It would make sense to only have one or the other in a clan, except that you could recruit 'spies' from the other type.
  • Would it prove too much of a burden on the server if we were able to view an automatically generated clan roster repeatedly through the day?
    • Simon: Perhaps when we reach Urban Dead numbers of players. If it's too much, I could always generate static copies a couple of times daily.
  • Will alliances and enemies be something that we can manage ingame, or is that better suited for the wiki?
    • Simon: Probably better suited to the wiki.
  • Would it be possible to assign titles / ranks to members, or is this something else that should be maintained on the wiki?
    • Simon: I might be persuaded to add titles or ranks in-game. It would probably make sense to have them there since I don't know that everyone uses the wiki.
  • Would it be possible to assign leadership powers (accept, expel) to members that are not the leader? The benefits of this would enable a clan to continue to live if a leader is not active for a length of time. (Of course, they may be better off making another clan if it is for a large amount of time.)
    • Simon: This has been thought of although not documented here. I should be able to add some kind of joint leadership system if required.
  • Will there be a limit to the clan size? (I.E. a minimum size to be recognized) --One of many doctors 22:59, 16 February 2006 (GMT)
    • Simon: Umm, how about a size of 2. A leader and a follower.
      • You mean that a Clan with less than two members can't be listed here? Darn. :(--AlexanderRM 23:20, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Comments

  • Roleplaying point only - I can see the name 'clan' for Natives. Could we not go with 'Guild' or something for Outsiders? Dunno if this even has any bearing on the above discussion. --Meatiershower 04:36, 19 February 2006 (GMT)
  • I don't think we should call them guilds unless they really are guilds. And, since there are no merchant and trademsan PCs, I can't see why we'd have trade guilds. Much better to use a generic term like Group, and let each individual group determine by what term they should be known.--Wifey 06:20, 28 March 2006 (BST)
  • Condi Suggestion: Either...
    • Joining a clan is purely a RP activity OR
    • Perhaps you could designate a 'clan area' of the map (perhaps 10x10 squares where an XP gained are doubled. This would create a home base for the clan. Perhaps the clan could have naming rights over the squares too)
  • Um... isn't the whole point of a clan to organize players? They serve more then just a RP purpose. --One of many doctors 00:41, 26 February 2006 (GMT)
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