The Shartak Wiki - User contributions [en]

Suggestions:Game mechanics

2006-03-16T15:08:51Z

Leaf: /* Game Mechanics */

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{{Suggestionsnav}}

Suggestions for Shartak are always welcome, although there's no guarantee that anything will be added. Comments on or modifications for any of the suggestions below can be added by editing this page. Please be considerate and don't just remove ideas that you don't like.

Begin a new item with a * and "sign" your suggestions using <nowiki>-- ~~~~</nowiki> so we know who to blame ;)

Bug reports should go on the [[Bugs]] page.

This is the suggestions page for game mechanics. See also the [[Suggestions]] page for other suggestions.

== Game Mechanics ==

=== Conversion ===
When an Outsider/Native dies they are reborn as a Native (don't really understand the spirit thing too well). The Outsiders then get a new class/skill, "Religious Conversion" that requires a "Holy Scripture". This allows a "Priest" to convert one native into a Outsider". The converted native would most likely start off as a Settler. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* I believe that Natives are reborn as Natives and Outsiders are reborn as Outsiders, but I could be wrong. From a game balance perspective, I am not in favor of type-swapping skills unless Natives are presented with an ability to counter or convert Outsiders as well. It does fit nicely with the theme though. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:41, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

* That would probably be the shamans job, however it may have worked for Urban Dead but I don't think it will work in this game as whichever group has the most players to begin with will, once conflicts begin to arise, dominate by switching people from the side they are on the side the priest/"whatever the natives use" side making you able to graph one groups population by looking at the graph pop=(1/2)^x. Also since there wouldn't seem to be a way, short of finding a converter player to switch you back, to go back to playing as you once did would make the amount of people on one side quickly die off (even though thats what would happen in real life, favouring the outsiders) it would be a very unfun aspect of the game. And really these are HOSTILE natives, or so it seems, why would they let some devilman outsider tell it how it is? They wouldn't, they would simply spear them and laugh! In short all the converting ideas suck, I know I wouldn't want to log on to find I'm playing for the wrong side. -- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 10:55, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

* So that means if my soldier dies, he's reborn as a native? Not only that, but to become an outsider again, first I would have to find a priest (which would be next to impossible with such a small number of players), and then he could convert me into a settler. That means I'll never be able to be a soldier again, which is a real punch in the throat for RPers. -- Grigoriy

*All valid points. I guess this wouldn't really work we have the same number of players as Urban Dead. But this would be a great way to balance out the sides later on. Say there are too many natives, you just drop more "conversion items" and balance out the sides. Too many Outsiders? Just drop the number of conversion items. Doubt it would catch on though. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 02:44, 19 February 2006 (GMT)

*Conversion doesn't have to be forced. It could require action on both sides, like a native doning a religious item and an outsider using the skill on that native. After all, conversion isn't real without true faith. The native counter to this could be similar, requiring an outsider to die holding a packet of that headshrinking powder while a shaman uses the Zombification (ala Haitian witchcraft) skill. -- frisco

*You don't change class or anything when you die. --[[User:Murk|Murk]] 12:31, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

=== Capturing villages ===
Since this is like some war between Outsiders and Natives I thought this appropriate. If all the (say) Outsiders are killed in York and there are none left, then it becomes a Native village and vice versa. Probably needs harder requirements to capture settlements though. Maybe each side could have one permanent place that can never change hands? --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:41, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
:Not sure about this - what about all the idle players within the village? They might "wake up" after a couple of weeks to find they're in enemy territory. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:00, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

:You could have it so idle players goto the nearest friendly village-- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 02:58, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

:Turf control in a limited AP browser game like this just invites lame zerging behavior. I don't like it. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:00, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

:Not villages, perhaps 3x3 square 'forts'? --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 01:10, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

:I do like the idea, but I think Jackel's observation hits a key point. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

:Agreed with Jackel and Lint and Simon. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 13:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT) Additionally:
::* Please don't impose your assumption that Shartak is at heart a "war between Outsiders and Natives" on the rest of us. That is not the only possible direction in which this game can go. For example, an Outsider village might turn out to be populated by a trading company that views the other Outsider villages as competitors whose extermination would be good for business, but it could just as easily develop into a peaceful scientific outpost, a pirate haven of drunken debauchery, or a missionary settlement devoted to finding the Natives and learning their language (gotta spread that old time religion). I believe it would be better to keep the objectives more freeform, and let the players create the course of history. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 13:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
::* On a hopefully more helpful and positive note, one could simulate/approximate capturing a village by amassing an army of suitable size, carving messages of ownership all over the territory of the village in question, killing all members of the village, and repeatedly killing the village shaman so they can't get back as easily. (Ouch. I hope no armchair megalomaniacs out there have been taking notes.) --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 13:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

=== Unique skills ===
I think that each class should start off with one unique skill that the others may never aquire. That way it stops all the classes from becoming too generic. For example Settlers could have a "farming" skill, Soldiers could have a "bravery" skill, etc. Or mabey they could just have a attribute like Soldiers have an extra 10% chance of striking the target, Warriors have an extra 10% chance of finding animals, Settlers have an extra 10% chance of finding an item, Scouts have a 3% chance of recovering 1 HP per AP spent, etc. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 02:34, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
:I am in favor of this (if it is not in effect currently). We'd have to work out the details to make sure each class is getting their fair share, but something that encourages players to try other classes or team up with other players using different classes for a better playing experience sounds good to me. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
:I am in favor of each class being able to acquire (but not necessarily starting off with) a unique skill or attribute that the others may never acquire. Sounds to me like the kind of thing that would be unlocked as one's reward for a rite of passage, rather than granted as a right of birth. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 12:53, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

=== Pet System ===
I will combine aspects of the '''Animal''' and '''Pirate''' suggestions and propose a pet system that allows you to tame one of the animals on the island. First, you have to weaken the animal. Then you throw a sphere device at it and shout "SHARTAK SPHERE! GO!" for 1 AP. There's a slight chance that you have captured and tamed the animal. The more powerful the animal, the less success chance. You earn no XP for taming an animal. Players can only have 1 pet at a time. They can release a pet whenever they want. If the owner dies, the pet runs away. Pets have fixed HP, attack, and accuracy based on the type of animal they are (ie. they do not level up or heal, just to keep it simple to design). They follow the player around and only attack when the player attacks. It would be nice if they attacked while you were not playing, but auto-defense mechanisms are unnecessary. Enemy animals randomly determine whether they are attacking the owner or the pet. Other players will have an option for targeting the owner or pet. There is no XP gained for attacking or killing a pet to deter any attempts at farming pet killing (I can't believe we even have to consider preventing such a thing). For added flavor, owners can name their pets. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
:ROTFL. Sounds a bit like Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh (don't worry, I'm not a fan, I have kids that were!). Perhaps instead of spheres, you could keep the monkeys on a leash, heal a tiger or elephant to make it less likely to attack you, tame deer by feeding them, etc. Some animals like the wild boar would have to be pretty difficult to tame. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:14, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
:I was with you right up until you got to the "sphere device" bit, and I rejoined you afterwards. ;) The rest of your suggestion otherwise seems to be pretty well thought out. Personally, I'd prefer to attempt to tame the animal into becoming a pet purely by offering it food, rather than "weakening" it by other means. Especially since food is scarce enough that offering it to an animal would be a real sacrifice and therefore an interesting decision for the player to make. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:49, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
::I will confess that I had a lot of fun with the references. The problem I have with using an existing item to tame a pet is how to implement it. The player can't click on the fruit, because that will just heal themselves. And I think it is unecessary to redesign fruits like First Aid Kits and Medical Herbs, just so they can feed it to an animal. And a database check to see if the player possesses a fruit before providing a "tame" command seems awkward. Perhaps there is just one item called "animal bait" (from the Trade Hut most likely). It works much like a FAK or Herb, but can only be applied to animals (though there will be a "Yourself" option by default for those players that decide they enjoy the taste). Animals will then have a value called "tame count" in the database. For each successful feeding, this number is incremented. When a specific number is reached, the monster is successfully tamed. If a monster is killed, the number is reset to 0. Acquiring a pet should not reduce the population of animals on the island (ie. one should respawn to take its place). Furthermore, those with '''Animal Affinity''' should have a better taming success rate. (This is another attempt to give Villagers and Settlers a little boost.) --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 17:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
:::This idea, while somewhat interesting, is not very realitic. The animals of the island are wild. In reality, tigers, elephants, deer, "WILD boars" etc can only be made LESS WILD by extensive and careful training and handling when they are young, not be tamable by any means, certainly not enough to follow a person around and fight on their behalf. Maybe it would be possible with parrots and monkeys, but if Simon is going to implement changes, I'd rather see some of the more believable ones first. I do agree with Lint that it would give more value to '''Animal Affinity'''. Animal attacks, even from a tiger or elephant (which would realistically be very dangerous) are hardly to be feared, making this skill currently seem pretty useless.

=== Profile Effect Items ===
These are useless baubles that take up 1 unit of a player's inventory space, but if anyone views their profile they will see that the players possesses the item. Using the item won't accomplish anything and merely produce flavor text. However, if a player is in the presence of another player, using the item would show it off. As with all items, there's no way to trade them with other players. We can have eyepatches and peglegs. We can have tribal masks and warpaint. Maybe some clans would require a certain dress code. Maybe they need 30 pieces of flair. I think it provides an outlet for the less serious gamers. Problems: Serious gamers might be plagued with finding such items and dropping them, wasting (in their opinion) AP and Page Hits. Also, arguing over what items fit with the theme of Shartak will be a headache-inducing process. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* I like this suggestion. How about finding the pieces of the masks and making your own - combine the baubles with mini-quests? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:18, 8 March 2006 (GMT)
:For example, to make the sacred warrior mask of Raktam, you must find 5 parrot feathers, a tiger tooth, some berries and a piece of driftwood that can be carved into the appropriate shape with a knife or dagger. Once you have all those items, you get a "create mask" option which then removes the required items and the mask appears in your inventory (and profile).
::Having the database check to see if they have all the ingredients seems a bit unwieldly. After every action or inventory use it might have to run the check to verify that they are alive, still have the items, etc. I'd just settle for having them take the items to a specific NPC. But yes, a mixing quest would be fun. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 18:02, 8 March 2006 (GMT)

* I just hope that this idea motivates players to try new things ("I'm going to join a clan that wears such-and-such a mask and attack the others! Yarr!") and not feel that the game is just about collecting items ("Well, I got all the masks. I guess I'm done with the game."). --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 18:02, 8 March 2006 (GMT)

*Maybe the different masks have different effects, from some simple ones (attracting/scaring animals, making them less likely to attack or easier to hit) to the downright blatavt video game reference that turns you into a huge brown rocky guy who can punch boulders apart. OK, maybe not the second one. [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 20:53, 9 March 2006 (GMT)
:I think that's something to be worked on in a separate suggestion. The point of this suggestion is to make useless "fancy hats" that neither add or take away from the established gameplay. However, in the eyes of certain players, they may be invaluable because of how they can incorperate such items into their goals and roleplaying. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:52, 9 March 2006 (GMT)

=== Unique Item Hunt ===
''Capture the Flag''-ish minigame. Somewhere on the island is a single conch shell item. It can be found by searching anywhere. It takes 1 inventory space and appears when anyone views their profile. When the conch holder is in the presence of other players, flavor text is added to the area description to inform the others that the conch holder is in the area. If the person in possession of the conch drops it, dies, or is idle for more than 5 days, the conch returns to the system. The person who holds the conch the longest gets recognized in the statistics. Killing the conch holder earns special bonus XP. Adept conch holder killers may also be recognized in the statistics. Problems: Someone with multiple characters could take advantage of having the conch on one character and reap the XP and fame with another. There will be a point where a race condition will occur and might result in multiple conches and a broken game. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* This kind of thing has been on my ideas list, although this is much more detailed version than the one-liner I had. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:05, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

=== Know you foes ===
As a native, I get killed a lot by outsiders, but I just can't strike back when I come back to life, as nothing allows me to identify my agressors amongst the outsiders I meet. I expected some basic language skill to give me access to clickable outsiders profiles, but it doesn't. So. I don't like much the fact that, in this game, the only alternative you have is "attack random outsiders" or "attack none". I'd like to be able to protect myself without being too unfair to peaceful outsiders (and being part of some snowball effect).

This would be partly solved by some profile access (allowing to check people's amount of human kills), or some limited displayed info on the present players (it would make -almost- sense for natives to automatically carry visible scalps or shrunken head of their victims, but I'm not sure how to justify the kills display in the case of outsiders, despite of the fact white men were actually quite fond of indian scalps at some time). Another useful tool would be some urban-dead-like contact list.

Of course, ideally (but absurdly) the most useful stat to be able to see would be the number of kills of people without human kills at the moment of their death, but... -- Leaf

Suggestions:Items

2006-03-10T09:07:10Z

Leaf: /* Items */

{| cellpadding=10 align=right
| __TOC__
|}

{{Suggestionsnav}}

Suggestions for Shartak are always welcome, although there's no guarantee that anything will be added. Comments on or modifications for any of the suggestions below can be added by editing this page. Please be considerate and don't just remove ideas that you don't like.

Begin a new item with a * and "sign" your suggestions using <nowiki>-- ~~~~</nowiki> so we know who to blame ;)

Bug reports should go on the [[Bugs]] page.

This is the suggestions page for [[Items]]. See also the [[Suggestions]] page for other suggestions.

== Items ==

=== Spear ===
It could be the native warriors main weapon, give it a base damage of 3, same to hit as machete but it wouldn't cut through jungle -- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 11:02, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
:A spear for stabbing or a spear for throwing (i.e single use) ? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:49, 25 February 2006 (GMT)

=== Head-shrinking powder ===
This could be either a melee or area weapon used by natives.

''Comments''
* What are the effects of it? Causes X HP of damage? Loss of AP? Loss of XP? Instant death? - [[User:Snarf|Snarf]]

=== Meat ===
Heals 2 HP. Used by both outsiders and tribals. It appears in your inventory when you kill a beastie. [[User:Bungalow Bill|Bungalow Bill]]

''Comments''
* But you can only carry 200 pounds of meat back to your wagon. <nowiki></oregontrail></nowiki> --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:15, 13 February 2006 (GMT)
* Or you have to cook it, taking one AP and possibly a fire-lighting skill (who wants to eat raw monkey?).[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 20:12, 20 February 2006 (GMT)
** Maybe you don't have to cook it but you get less HP and possibly lose HP to food poisoning. [DarkFerret]
* Or, to make it more, hm, tribal, you could need to bring it back to specific places in the village where it could be (instantaneously) cooked and used as a replenished "health pool" any player could use. You would still have the occasional berries to eat in the forest, but real meal would occure at a settlement. It would also provide a more efficient healing system (as currently, you roughly get to spend 50 AP to recover 4 or 5 HP, which makes death the most efficient way to restore your HP). -- Leaf
**''There is a large pot of stew cooking, it appears to be half full.''
''You eat some and feel better. After a few spoonfuls you find your friend's pocket watch.'' [DarkFerret]

=== Radio beacon/receiver ===
A radio beacon/receiver for outsiders to pinpoint specific locations of interest.

''Comments''
* What's wrong with using the GPS co-ordinates of a specific location? - [[User:Snarf|Snarf]]
*Perhaps a way to have GPS waypoints or markers IN one own's GPS? --[[User:Wcervantes|Wcervantes]] 19:39, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

=== Holy Scriptures ===
Used to convert Natives into Ousiders. Requires "Religious Devotion". Most likely found around Outsider settlements --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
*Nobody wants to have a class change againt their will. -Grigoriy
*Noone wants to die against their will either, but it does happen ;-) Might be irritating, but also might be quite interesting. It would have to be possible both ways of course, natives to outsiders and outsiders to natives. Perhaps the outsiders can convert natives to outsiders with holy scriptures using the religious devotion skill and natives can convert outsiders to natives with a bottle of beer using the seduction skill! ;-) --[[User:Murk|Murk]] 12:28, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

=== GPS Unit (Redesign) ===
This is a suggestion to change the gps unit into an object that presumably fits better with the game setting. We currently have no other modern item available for use (anachronism - VOCABULARY WORD!). Perhaps we should use a sextant? And rather than reveal the position all of the time, it requires a 1 AP use in non-dense, non-enclosed area. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 21:48, 23 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* Yes, GPS units are indeed ''malapropos'' (another vocabulary word :D)--[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 00:33, 27 February 2006 (GMT)
* Y'know, the "GPS Unit" item has stuck out like a sore thumb to me too. I'd be very much in favor of a lower-tech replacement, if only because it makes the game more timeless. But what tools ''did'' explorers of earlier eras use to measure latitude and longitude while traveling by land, anyway? And how accurate were they? Alternatively phrased: if you were trapped on a desert island without a GPS Unit, how would you estimate where you were? Lint's suggestion for a lower-tech replacement item, requiring AP and suitable terrain conditions for proper use, appeals to me. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:03, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
* I've done some research into this and as Lint said, a sextant is what was used. Unfortunately though, a sextant doesn't do both longitude and latitude very quickly, you need charts/tables and several hours. See http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/longitude/secrets.html for info. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 14:55, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
** Ahh; yeah, I had just been checking out http://www.lewis-clark.org/content/content-article.asp?ArticleID=1268 myself. If I'm reading it right, it sounds like the bulk of the hours of calculation involved were due to being at sea and having to figure out what time zone you're in first as part of the equation. (Both pages mention a "chronometer" which was finally invented to try to solve that problem.) On land, though -- and especially on an island of Shartak's size -- you pretty much know where you are, and you're not likely to be crossing time zones. A quote from the Lewis & Clark page: "If time can be fixed along any meridian of longitude, then longitudinal distance can be determined by comparing time at that meridian with local time, usually based on the point at which the sun reaches its zenith." So. I wonder if we could fudge a bit with this sextant business by assuming that everyone on the island is able to determine what time it is on Shartak -- after all, we do get timestamped event messages! ;) -- and therefore we can apply that bit of knowledge to help determine longitude, overcoming the sextant's weakness. That could even go in the FAQ. I'm not really all that scientifically inclined, so please do feel welcome to correct me if if my thoughts are way off base. In closing, I still like Lint's ideas about making it cost AP and require suitable terrain. The former would represent the investment of time in setting up the equipment and doing the calculations. The latter would give players a reason to clear a square of jungle. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 16:07, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
*** That all sounds good. I think there is a skill in there as well - I don't suppose a sextant is as accurate as GPS, so why not have it not produce the same result all of the time? Someone with the "Skillful Sextant Supervisor" skill gets more accurate results. --[[User:Dr. J|Dr. J]] 16:17, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
** The AP cost of a sextant or other device could easily be added to the GPS unit by requiring that you 'use gps' to get the reading rather than it being on all the time. Whilst redesigning the GPS unit, how about thinking of something for natives to find out where they are - obviously not as accurate as a sextant, but something to guide them around or to specific locations. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 16:30, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
*** Just consider it a redesigned sextant that some mythical character dropped around the island and call it "Professor Inglewood's Speedy Sextant And Nano Tables" or some other such nonesense and leave it working the same, just with a different name. As for natives, maybe they could see/read totems at different points in the jungle, indicating where resources/towns are. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 17:06, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

=== Refillable containers ===
Does it really make sense that after drinking something, you automatically discard the container it had been in? I propose a modification to the inventory system so bottles/gourds work similar to rifles and blowguns--they can be refilled if they are empty. Obviously, you can't just carry around spare water like you can ammo, so to refill a water container, you have to be in water. This would clearly make areas near water more popular, which I don't think is a bad thing, or without precedent. Furthermore, this could lead to new and interesting directions, such as other liquids that could be carried around, causing various effects. Off the top of my head:
* drinking too much "ocean" water will make you sick (reducing your hit % temporarily)
* a "create mysterious serum" skill the shaman/scientist can eventually learn that (along with certain ingredients) lets them create a "buff" potion.
* special healing water springs that have double the recuperative effect
This would also address one of the concerns I've had regarding healing skills. To my knowledge, there is no place in Shartak where you are more likely to consistantly find healing kits/herbs, etc. its all fairly random. By comparision, UD has certain buildings where you can only find certain items (i.e. hospitals = first aid kits). IMO, its currently too difficult/AP consuming to heal. Without a way to consistantly find/create healing items, it's not likely there will be "healers" willing to use their hard-to-find healing items on anyone else. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 22:14, 25 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
::Have you found the hut in Dalpok with all the drying herbs hanging up? Says something about a shaman being busy, I seem to have a reasonable success rate at finding healing herbs there. Not sure if there are more around. --[[User:Snarf|Snarf]] 22:17, 25 February 2006 (GMT)
:::No, I hadn't noticed such a hut(s), I've assumed they were all pretty much the same. If certain huts are more likely to contain certain items, I've another suggestion--'''label them'''. Any opinion on my primary suggestion of refillable containers? --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 22:31, 25 February 2006 (GMT)
::::I can confirm that huts may look identical on the outside, but their inside descriptions can differ significantly. Fortunately, anyone with the right tool can carve a message on a hut's outer walls, such as "Empty Inside" or "Shaman's Hut". --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:24, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
::Refillable containers? Give the user the choice to discard the container? Sure, sounds cool to me. About the water supply: I agree that ocean water (water right off the beach) would be bound to be salty and unpotable in a real-world scenario. According to the [[Locations]] page, there's a river off the south side of the mountain, which would seem to be the only known terrestrial fresh water source on the whole island. Hmm, a thought: If we were to have refillable containers, then might one also expect there to be wells in or around the villages? --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:24, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
:::There is at least one more (much shorter) river near Derby. I'll bet there is a lake or two somewhere as well. Wells are probably not a bad idea. --[[User:Dr. J|Dr. J]] 15:05, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

=== Remove uber sword of doom(aka heavy sword) ===
I don't even have a heavy sword yet but I can already tell(from the item page) that it makes a lot of things utterly useless.Just for reference the heavy sword is(when maxed attack skills) 45% hit, 5dam= '''2.25dam/ap'''. What does it make useless, well let me begin.<br>

1.Rifle skills- reason: the ap you spent getting the xp for those skills was better used searching for a heavy sword.<br>

2.Rifle- reason: the dam/ap for the rifle is lower than a the heavy sword '''before''' factoring in the search for ammo part. The math: the rifle is 5 dam,60% hit,1.5 ap/shot( 3ap per 2 shots i think)= (5*.6)/1.5 =3/1.5 = '''2ap/dam NOT FACTORING IN SEARCHING FOR AMMO'''.

3. The blowpipe- reason: the blowpipe sucks as it is, the machete makes it pointless(unless they actually poison) and the heavy sword just makes it absolute garbage(even if they poisoned). The math: 4 dam, 20% hit, 2ap/shot(assuming you have to reload after every shot i don't use the blowpipe so I wouldn't know)= (4*.2)/2=.8/2= '''.4 dam/ap NOT FACTORING IN SEARCHING FOR AMMO'''.

Conclusion- I realize there are problems with the blowpipe but as far as I can tell with the rifle there are none. The knowledge of there even being a heavy sword is enough to discourage those that would take rifles training as a skill. The sword is just too powerful to balance in game as the only way to balance it would be to add another item that is just as crazy powerful, making it rare does nothing to the balance as people can still find it and it makes those few ,whom the RNG loves, ridiculosly overpowered. If the RNG loves somebody they should get multipul hits in a row not the ability to destroy everybody who can't/doesn't want to waste the ap to gain that ability. And after all just because it is rare doesn't mean we all can't find it, I know eventually we would all find one and there would be no variaty whatsoever in battle. Take urban dead for example they balanced the shotguns,pistols, and fireaxe evenly so there is no superior choice its about how you want to play. With the heavy sword it makes all other items pale in comparison BEFORE search rates are keyed into calculations, in urban dead it is AFTER that they are about even. This suggestion to remove something doesn't punish anybody because as of right now we do not know where to find the heavy sword, the only ones were stumbled across randomly so nobody would really have "wasted" the ap to find it(unless they have but I know after reading a bit I didn't for the fun reducing factor everybody having one would bring). Also don't bring up things about how I don't know how it works ingame because unless it takes 6ap to attack the math shows it is unbalanced. Please Simon fix this unbalanced weapon by removing it, not by making everything else oh so much better. ANybody who is with me sign in the comments please.

'''Comments'''

*The math looks sound. And I agree that having everyone run around with Heavy Swords would make for a plain game. However, I don't see why it needs to be removed completely. Is there anything we can do to the sword mechanics to make it more even with the existing weapons? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:04, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
*I agree. The machete with maxed out melee skils is arguably better than any other weapon, and the heavy sword makes that look like a butter knife. Yank it or make it so rare it would be like winning the lottery twice. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 01:49, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

=== Ranged weapons ===

I never used a rifle, but the blowpipe feels quite useless at the moment indeed (unless it poisons). I was wondering if a ranged aspect could be added to those weapons to make up for their poor hp/ap ratio and their ammo requirement (and their lack of poison?). In practice, that would mean that once the rifle (or the blowpipe (I wonder if it poisons)) is selected from the attack drop-down menu, the target drop-down menu would include the entities from the surrounding squares. That would allow for some slightly safer attacks, especially in difficult terrain, or for around four minutes of triumph for having attacked someone from the distance (and poisonned him?), before being machetted to death anyway. That is: not much, but the satisfying feeling to have used a special weapon, with its own pros. -- Leaf

Suggestions

2006-02-25T10:59:58Z

Leaf: /* Meat */

Suggestions for Shartak are always welcome, although there's no guarantee that anything will be added. Comments on or modifications for any of the suggestions below can be added by editing this page. Please be considerate and don't just remove ideas that you don't like.

Begin a new item with a * and "sign" your suggestions using <nowiki>-- ~~~~</nowiki> so we know who to blame ;)

Bug reports should go on the [[Bugs]] page.

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== Skills ==

=== Weapon Skills ===
The Warrior/Soldiers class should get weapon skills, like spear skills for the warrior and rifle skills for the soldier, make the soldiers skills make the rifle have better to hit then the natives spear but the rifle requires the searching of ammo, this makes the difference between natives and outsiders warrior classes more than the blowpipe and rifle (blowpipes do 1 less damage) EDIT: I notice that the outsiders do indeed have rifle training, freshly added to the wiki I guess.-- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 11:07, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

=== Tracking ===
Anyone with the Tracking skill should be able to track where people have gone, either generic "A native passed by here recently" or more specific "Average Joe left heading north 2 days ago".

''Comments''
* Should probably be a timelimit so you don't see "Average Joe left heading north 90 days ago". - [[User:Snarf|Snarf]]

=== Religious Devotion ===
Required to use "Holy Scriptures" --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

=== Jungle Skills ===
The jungle environment has great potential to add significant dynamic to this game. These could be a set of skills to reflect this.
: Jungle Lore: Player has x% chance of discovering item/artifact. Might work in conjunction with search skill.
: Make/Detect Traps: Spikes, Pits etc... Not sure this is possible and what would be need to time degrade this.[[User:Nankilstlas|Nankilstlas]]

=== Skinning ===
This is a skill that does not have a pre-requisite. Upon coming across an area where a dead animal is present, the player is given an opportunity to skin the animal. The process of skinning costs 1 AP and has a chance of producing items such as '''Animal Hide''' or '''Animal Tooth''' or '''Animal Feathers'''. These items can be traded to an NPC found in villages and exchanged for Gold Coins. This skill should be available to all classes to grant them all with an equal opportunity of earning Gold. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 21:48, 23 February 2006 (GMT)
* Extend skinning to killed players? No, that's just wrong. We are civilized. *puffs pipe* - Lint
* Make skinning have a pre-requisite of '''Exploration'''? Perhaps. *puffs pipe* - Lint
* Make skinning always produce an item, rather than chance? No, I like a good challenge. *puffs pipe* - Lint
* Perhaps it could be tied to the Meat suggestion? *shrugs* *puffs pipe* - Lint

=== Animal Spirit ===
(native only) Upon gaining this skill, an animal type is associated with the player. Any attacks by the player on that animal result in negative xp, but the animal is less likely to attack the player. Additionally, if the player dons the skin of the animal (perhaps via the Skinning skill) then a bonus is given to the player, such as faster movement, hit bonus, damage bonus. Bonus could be dependant on animal. Upon player death, there is a chance the player's animal spirit will change. --frisco

== Items ==

=== Spear ===
It could be the native warriors main weapon, give it a base damage of 3, same to hit as machete but it wouldn't cut through jungle -- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 11:02, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

=== Head-shrinking powder ===
This could be either a melee or area weapon used by natives.

''Comments''
* What are the effects of it? Causes X HP of damage? Loss of AP? Loss of XP? Instant death? - [[User:Snarf|Snarf]]

=== Meat ===
Heals 2 HP. Used by both outsiders and tribals. It appears in your inventory when you kill a beastie. [[User:Bungalow Bill|Bungalow Bill]]
* But you can only carry 200 pounds of meat back to your wagon. <nowiki></oregontrail></nowiki> --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:15, 13 February 2006 (GMT)
* Or you have to cook it, taking one AP and possibly a fire-lighting skill (who wants to eat raw monkey?).[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 20:12, 20 February 2006 (GMT)
* Or, to make it more, hm, tribal, you could need to bring it back to specific places in the village where it could be (instantaneously) cooked and used as a replenished "health pool" any player could use. You would still have the occasional berries to eat in the forest, but real meal would occure at a settlement. It would also provide a more efficient healing system (as currently, you roughly get to spend 50 AP to recover 4 or 5 HP, which makes death the most efficient way to restore your HP). -- Leaf

=== Radio beacon/receiver ===
A radio beacon/receiver for outsiders to pinpoint specific locations of interest.

''Comments''
* What's wrong with using the GPS co-ordinates of a specific location? - [[User:Snarf|Snarf]]
*Perhaps a way to have GPS waypoints or markers IN one own's GPS? --[[User:Wcervantes|Wcervantes]] 19:39, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

=== Holy Scriptures ===
Used to convert Natives into Ousiders. Requires "Religious Devotion". Most likely found around Outsider settlements --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)
*Nobody wants to have a class change againt their will. -Grigoriy

=== GPS Unit (Redesign) ===
This is a suggestion to change the gps unit into an object that presumably fits better with the game setting. We currently have no other modern item available for use (anachronism - VOCABULARY WORD!). Perhaps we should use a sextant? And rather than reveal the position all of the time, it requires a 1 AP use in non-dense, non-enclosed area. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 21:48, 23 February 2006 (GMT)

== Other ==

=== Supplies in settlements ===
Could there perhaps be some kind of a more reliable way to get things in villages, apart from randomly finding them? Coming across abandoned items in jungles, evaquated police departments and such makes sense, but going on an epic quest for a machete under someone's carpet in an active village just seems a bit out of place.

So, if it's not too much of a hassle, which it most likely is, I suggest there to perhaps be put some kind of trader characters in settlements, who could exchange all kindsa things for random junk you've found lying around in other places, or maybe you could get these fellas to make items for you free of charge, which you could go and pick up after a period of time?

..probably too complicated for something that's rather useless. Oh well. --[[User:Ismo Kuikka|Ismo Kuikka]]

:There's a trading post in one of the huts in Dalpok, can't get anything there though. Perhaps a sign of things to come? --[[User:Snarf|Snarf]] 10:33, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

=== Tunnels ===
Tunnels underneath the island lead to interesting places.
:How do you know they don't exist? :) [[User:Dr._J|Dr. J]]

=== Treasure to capture ===
"Capture the flag" type objective, in this case the flags are treasure from each village. Bonus points in the form of XP or gold coins to be awarded to the holder of the treasure at certain intervals.

=== Writing on the tree (or sand) ===
Should be able to write stuff in the sand on the beaches and carve short messages into trees in the jungle. To avoid "carve-wars" the only way to get rid of messages on trees could be to chop the jungle down and wait for it to grow again before you can write a new message. -- [[User:Snarf|Snarf]] 22:32, 27 January 2006 (GMT)
:FYI, currently working on this. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 23:16, 20 February 2006 (GMT)

=== Informational messages ===
You should be able to see what other people have done since your past turn. Much like the skill above, except for most actions that take place. Such as '[09:34]Joe used a medkit on Roger' or '[05:23]Dan Attacked a Boar and missed'. If this is implemented, there should be a menu that you can use to toggle certain bits of information, to reduce or stop spam. [[User:Durja|Durja]] 18:14, 6 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
:I don't want to see when people miss attacks, that's just too much information (unless it's me that they're attacking!) - [[User:Snarf|Snarf]]
:Would be useful to see when kills are made in the same location eg. Dan killed a boar or Joe killed Roger - [[User:Snarf|Snarf]]
:How about making a list of "informational messages" that might be required? - [[User:Snarf|Snarf]]
:* PlayerX killed PlayerY.
:* PlayerX killed animal.
:* PlayerY died from eating some poisonous berries. (self-inflicted death)

== Classes ==

=== Priest ===
Starts off with a "Holy Scripture" and the "Religious Devotion Skill". --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

None of the other classes start with a skill. I think they should just have access to the skill, and maybe stuff like scientists don't (I'm not saying all scientists are unreligious, just that there probably aren't any THAT religious!). [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 11:06, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

=== Scientist (Rename) ===
This is a suggestion to change the name of the Scientist class to Professor. From Tarzan to Gilligan's Island, the science-type in has been regarded as Professor rather than Scientist. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 21:48, 23 February 2006 (GMT)

== Game Mechanics ==

=== Conversion ===
When an Outsider/Native dies they are reborn as a Native (don't really understand the spirit thing too well). The Outsiders then get a new class/skill, "Religious Conversion" that requires a "Holy Scripture". This allows a "Priest" to convert one native into a Outsider". The converted native would most likely start off as a Settler. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)
* I believe that Natives are reborn as Natives and Outsiders are reborn as Outsiders, but I could be wrong. From a game balance perspective, I am not in favor of type-swapping skills unless Natives are presented with an ability to counter or convert Outsiders as well. It does fit nicely with the theme though. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:41, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

* That would probably be the shamans job, however it may have worked for Urban Dead but I don't think it will work in this game as whichever group has the most players to begin with will, once conflicts begin to arise, dominate by switching people from the side they are on the side the priest/"whatever the natives use" side making you able to graph one groups population by looking at the graph pop=(1/2)^x. Also since there wouldn't seem to be a way, short of finding a converter player to switch you back, to go back to playing as you once did would make the amount of people on one side quickly die off (even though thats what would happen in real life, favouring the outsiders) it would be a very unfun aspect of the game. And really these are HOSTILE natives, or so it seems, why would they let some devilman outsider tell it how it is? They wouldn't, they would simply spear them and laugh! In short all the converting ideas suck, I know I wouldn't want to log on to find I'm playing for the wrong side. -- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 10:55, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

* So that means if my soldier dies, he's reborn as a native? Not only that, but to become an outsider again, first I would have to find a priest (which would be next to impossible with such a small number of players), and then he could convert me into a settler. That means I'll never be able to be a soldier again, which is a real punch in the throat for RPers. -- Grigoriy

*All valid points. I guess this wouldn't really work we have the same number of players as Urban Dead. But this would be a great way to balance out the sides later on. Say there are too many natives, you just drop more "conversion items" and balance out the sides. Too many Outsiders? Just drop the number of conversion items. Doubt it would catch on though. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 02:44, 19 February 2006 (GMT)

*Conversion doesn't have to be forced. It could require action on both sides, like a native doning a religious item and an outsider using the skill on that native. After all, conversion isn't real without true faith. The native counter to this could be similar, requiring an outsider to die holding a packet of that headshrinking powder while a shaman uses the Zombification (ala Haitian witchcraft) skill. -- frisco

Requests for information

2006-02-25T10:46:56Z

Leaf: /* Items */

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== About the wiki ==

=== Editing ===

Q. This wiki thing is odd and filled with odd people! I am frightened!

A. That's not a question! But never fear, the wiki is a great tool that only gets better with more participation and information. Here is the [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents Mediawiki Handbook] for detailed information on how things work. The [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing Help:Editing] section is a handy reference for beginners.

=== Signature ===

Q. Typing all that code to sign my posts is tiresome. Is there a better way to do this?

A. At the top of the edit field, you'll see a series of icons. The second to last icon resembles a partial signature. Simply click on this icon and it will generate the code to sign your posts.

=== Clan pages ===

Q. How do I list my uber l33t clan page like the others?

A. Edit your clan page and add "<nowiki>[[Category:Clans]]</nowiki>" (no quotes). If you also want to be listed as a specific type of clan, also add "<nowiki>[[Category:Clans for Outsiders]]</nowiki>" or "<nowiki>[[Category:Clans for Natives]]</nowiki>" or "<nowiki>[[Category:Clans for both]]</nowiki>".

For example, an Outsider-only clan would have: <nowiki>[[Category:Clans]] [[Category:Clans for Outsiders]]</nowiki>.

Q. How do I make the information box that appears on clan pages?

A. At the moment there is not a way to do this besides copying the code they use and pasting it in your clan page. Make sure you properly edit it to display your own information.

== Your vital statistics ==

=== Hit points (HP) ===

Q. I've only just started playing. How do you recover your HP?

A. Food and drink are your friend! You can find food and water by searching, and also the odd med-kit and healing herbs. Watch out for berries, some will restore you and others take it out if you! More information on recovery items are noted on the [[Items]] page.

=== Action points (AP)===

Q. How does AP replenish?

A. You get an extra AP every 20 minutes, up to a maximum of 75. It is reputably possible to have negative AP if you perform an action that takes alot of AP.

=== Experience (XP) ===

Q. How do you gain experience?

A. All sorts of ways, but most notably by killing animals, or people! Chopping down the jungle seems to also yield amount of XP. More information on methods of earning experience points are noted on the [[XP Gains]] page.

=== Gold ===

Q. What is gold good for?

A. Hmm.. good question. Also mentioned on [[Items#Gold_Coins|the items page]] as you get more gold by searching and finding gold coins.

== Life and death ==

===Character deaths===

Q. What happens when you die? --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:26, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

A. You are dead, and you can still walk around, as a spirit. You cannot talk, but some of the skills can help with that. You retain your items but cannot use them. If you go to a shaman he will bring you back to life, or you can use 50 AP to have your spirit moved home (e.g. York, Derby, Dalpok) and revived instantly.

=== NPC's (Non Player Characters) deaths ===
Q: The 'statistics on kills' page shows each group has killed a shaman 8 times. As I understand, there is only 1 shaman in each town/village. What are the consequences of this? Unable to be revived until one respawns? -[[User:Jackel|Jackel]]

A.

=== Animal Respawning ===

Q. Does anyone suspects how this works? I killed a Wild Boar and a Tiger, in the same spot, and two hours later, they were alive again. I don't know if because of a bug, or because they simply can revive? Has anyone encountered the same?--[[User:Wcervantes|Wcervantes]] 19:19, 21 February 2006 (GMT)

A. This was a [http://wiki.shartak.com/index.php/Bugs#Consistent_Animal_Spawning bug]. --[[User:Murk|Murk]] 16:13, 24 February 2006 (GMT)

==Items==

Q. Can items that you are carrying be destroyed or damaged? Specifically, can a machete ever be broken or become dull with use requiring sharpening? Is there any reason to carry around more than one machete? -[[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 01:59, 24 February 2006 (GMT)

Q. I would like to ask for everyones help in finding more about the elusive heavy sword, like what density of jungle did you find them in, is there a hut underneath the jungle or was it a jungle square with a hut? Or if you actually find them in the jungle? THe info on them right now is shaky. Im currently going on a search-a-thon but help is greatly appreciated.

Q. Do poison darts poison ?