Game design

2007-03-10T01:30:49Z

Arminius: /* Population */

{| style="margin: 0 0 1em 1em; float: right"
| __TOC__
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This an open forum to discuss '''game design'''. These are neither [[Bugs]] nor [[Suggestions]] (though they may lead to bug reports and game proposals) but rather points to consider for maintaining balance and consistency.

==Combat-centric gameplay==
Combat appears to be the most efective way to earn XP. I believe that there must be a means to reward non-combatants more than what healing and chopping vegetation provides. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 04:05, 15 March 2006 (GMT)
* Shouldn't exploring be rewarded? Isn't that why statistics on exploration are kept? --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 02:51, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
** It is, but in a fairly limited manner - chance of getting 1XP for chopping into a d10 jungle block. Of course, what with all the intrepid explorers wandering around, there don't seem to be that many of those right now. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 23:57, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
*** Even worse, the chance of getting the 1XP at all seems terrible. Chopping d10 Jungle is the Book-reading of Shartak. In my humble opinion, chopping max jungle should be closer to 33%-100% chance of 1XP, in order to result in at least as much XP as eating forbidden fruit (farming the poison berry / mango grove; about 4 XP per 12 AP). My XP comes from killing animals ... And a game-wide tally of XP earned would probably show similar overall results. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:22, 12 April 2006 (BST)
**** (Previous comment was made before the stealth game modification of 1XP chance from chopping jungle - has the chance of gaining XP now been increased to 33%??) --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:40, 15 May 2006 (BST)

And I suppose it's not just an issue of XP, but also recognizing other playing goals. In addition to kills, there should be a log for non-combat-oriented activities like healing, revival, chopping, searching, swimming. This would however require a great deal of variable recording and I'm not familiar with supporting an MMORPG to know what kind of stress that would put on the server. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 20:34, 16 April 2006 (BST)

==Slow combat==
Base accuracy for a weapon is higher than a fist, which is arguably unrealistic. One assumes that you would be less skilled with a weapon than your own hand. (I recall reading a similar comment to this, but I can't find it at the moment.) --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:52, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
*All characters appear to have a 10% chance to deal 1 damage with punching.
*Knives and Daggers appear to have a 20% chance to deal 1 damage.

:maybe it is just the punch only has a ten percent chance to actually doing damage(the text does say missed however), I know if i fought somebody who has a knife(or dagger) in RL they would do more to me than me to them, even if niether of us have any training,ex. Fists are a strange weapon and to actually do any damage with a punch(mainly only at the strongest point in your swing) you have to have some good timing.-- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 02:02, 3 March 2006 (GMT)
::I see what you're saying... how about punch 50-70% with a 20-30% chance of inflicting 1 damage after a successful hit, 0 damage otherwise (making it 10-21% but with 3 different messages - miss, hit but don't do damage, hit and do damage). --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 10:56, 4 March 2006 (GMT)
:Let me point out that this isn't really a problem. It's just something that a die-hard realist would try to press. On one hand, you can have Fists as the most accurate weapon until you get weapon skills (which will make the the first levels incredibly painful). On the other hand, you can have weapons as more accurate than fists (which allow new users to quickly become involved in the game). I don't know if I'd have the patience if it took me 70 AP to kill a parrot. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 16:12, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

==Type (faction) balance==
'''Axiom''': Outsiders and Natives should not have a complete advantage over the other. 
'''Axiom''': Outsiders and Natives should be different, but equal.

===Population===
Natives are currently outnumbered by Outsiders. --04:05, 15 March 2006 (GMT)
* The introduction of Pirates as an Outsider character class may further tip the population imbalance without a Native counterpart. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 02:49, 20 March 2006 (GMT)

Outsiders continue to greatly outnumber natives, as of September 3 2006 the margin was 65%-35% in favor of outsiders, with 719 active outsiders vs. 393 active natives. This is down from a ratio of 67%-33% several months ago. The population breakdown by town and village is not available (and not significant anyway, since at any time characters from a given town will be all over the island). The following are class-by-class breakdowns of active characters:

<div>
{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" style="background-color: #f9f9f9; border: solid 1px #ccc; border-collapse: collapse; float: left" |
|-bgcolor="#ccc"
|colspan="3" align="center"|'''970 active players (15 May 2006)'''
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Outsiders'''||'''651'''||'''67%'''
|-
|Explorers||85||9%
|-
|Soldiers||241||25%
|-
|Settlers||37||4%
|-
|Scientists||62||6%
|-
|''Total'' w/o ''Pirates''||425||44%
|-
|Pirates||226||23%
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Natives'''||'''319'''||'''33%'''
|-
|Shamans||117||12%
|-
|Warriors||121||12%
|-
|Villagers||43||4%
|-
|Scouts||38||4%
|}

{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" style="background-color: #f9f9f9; border: solid 1px #ccc; border-collapse: collapse; float: left; margin-left: 1em" |
|-bgcolor="#ccc"
|colspan="3" align="center"|'''1037 active players (21 June 2006)'''
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Outsiders'''||'''695'''||'''67%'''
|-
|Explorers||71||7%
|-
|Soldiers||240||23%
|-
|Settlers||46||4%
|-
|Scientists||65||6%
|-
|''Total'' w/o ''Pirates'':||422||41%
|-
|Pirates||273||26%
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Natives'''||'''342'''||'''33%'''
|-
|Shamans||128||12%
|-
|Warriors||129||12%
|-
|Villagers||39||4%
|-
|Scouts||46||4%
|}

{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" style="background-color: #f9f9f9; border: solid 1px #ccc; border-collapse: collapse; float: left; margin-left: 1em" |
|-bgcolor="#ccc"
|colspan="3" align="center"|'''1112 active players (3 September 2006)'''
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Outsiders'''||'''719'''||'''65%'''
|-
|Explorers||87||8%
|-
|Soldiers||244||22%
|-
|Settlers||43||4%
|-
|Scientists||67||6%
|-
|''Total'' w/o ''Pirates'':||441||40%
|-
|Pirates||278||25%
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Natives'''||'''393'''||'''35%'''
|-
|Shamans||131||12%
|-
|Warriors||163||15%
|-
|Villagers||46||4%
|-
|Scouts||53||5%
|}

{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" style="background-color: #f9f9f9; border: solid 1px #ccc; border-collapse: collapse; float: left; margin-left: 1em" |
|-bgcolor="#ccc"
|colspan="3" align="center"|'''1121 active players (22 January 2007)'''
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Outsiders'''||'''755'''||'''67%'''
|-
|Explorers||91||8%
|-
|Soldiers||259||23%
|-
|Settlers||51||5%
|-
|Scientists||52||5%
|-
|''Total'' w/o ''Pirates'':||453||40%
|-
|Pirates||302||27%
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Natives'''||'''366'''||'''33%'''
|-
|Shamans||107||10%
|-
|Warriors||150||13%
|-
|Villagers||61||5%
|-
|Scouts||48||4%
|}

{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" style="background-color: #f9f9f9; border: solid 1px #ccc; border-collapse: collapse; float: left; margin-left: 1em" |
|-bgcolor="#ccc"
|colspan="3" align="center"|'''1148 active players (10 March 2007)'''
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Outsiders'''||'''778'''||'''68%'''
|-
|Explorers||96||8%
|-
|Soldiers||245||21%
|-
|Settlers||59||5%
|-
|Scientists||55||5%
|-
|''Total'' w/o ''Pirates'':||455||40%
|-
|Pirates||323||28%
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Natives'''||'''370'''||'''32%'''
|-
|Shamans||113||10%
|-
|Warriors||151||13%
|-
|Villagers||59||5%
|-
|Scouts||47||4%
|}
 

Notes:
*<s>Outsiders have a huge advantage with 5 HP bottles of water vs 1 HP gourds of water.</s> Fixed.
*<s>Outsider soldiers have a big advantage over warriors, since the blowpipe is worthless.</s> Fixed.
*Outsider camps are coastal (easy to find driftwood, hard to get lost). Outsiders have the cool and valuable GPS units, while wiki-less natives get terribly lost in the jungle -- that doesn't make sense. Natives should innately know their way home as an advantage to counterbalance their geographic location and loss of GPS. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 07:49, 27 May 2006 (BST) (revised 01:46, 22 June 2006 (UTC))
*Outsiders have a large advantage over natives by sheer force of numbers, though this is mitigated by pirates being a somewhat separate group from the non-pirate outsiders.
*On both sides the largest class is the soldier class. On the outsider side this is not out of line with the storyline of the game, as early colonial efforts were often heavily military-based, but it is somewhat out of line with the native side.
*There is an inordinate number of native shamans and pirates. The pirates can be explained easily enough (a fleet of pirate ships crashed and they saw the chance to loot the island), but why would 37% of natives be shamans?
::(I'm not bothered by this, Shartak is so stuffed with wailing spirits that attuned natives make sense. The name of the class cannot and should not define or constrain the role that the player wants to play - there are some shamans who explore, others who trade, some who kill outsiders and some who kill their own tribe. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 07:49, 27 May 2006 (BST))
*Settlers and villagers remain the smallest groups, despite having the great Scavenging skill available to them. If this lack of settlers/villagers is seen as a problem, one thing to do could be to boost their starting inventory and change their description on the sign up page to something more exciting (it currently says "just your average outsider/native")
*'''January 2007 update''': Population percentages and totals have remained remarkably static over the past 8 months. Native underpopulation remains a problem, and [http://forum.shartak.com/index.php/topic,83.msg1860.html#msg1860 pirate overpopulation remains a problem](?).

:Thank you for doing the legwork of gathering this data and presenting it in table form.
:However, I must disagree with the basic premise of this suggestion. An assumption has been made here that because there are fewer Natives than Outsiders that Natives are somehow "losing" and Outsiders are somehow "winning". Rather in the actual game Outsiders and Natives rarely interact at all; the majority of interaction is within those two groups, not between them, often involving only characters of the same camp. Factions, alliances, enemies and role playing contacts occur almost exclusively among Outsiders or Natives, rarely crossing that line. There are, admittedly, a few individuals who simply kill any member of the "other" group on sight. But they are shooting blindly, without real knowledge of who they are attacking.
:The cause of this imbalance, IMHO, is more about real life biases than anything in game. The vast majority of films, books and other media set in the early colonial era is told from the viewpoint of Europeans entering the New World. Players bring with them that baggage, and may therefore find it difficult to imagine themselves as a Native. No changes within this game are going to change that bias, and anything to bulk up the Natives for that purpose will simply discourage those who want to play Outsiders.
:There is another game in which folks have wailed and cried over the low population of Zombies relative to the number of Survivors. The designer and folks on the Suggestions page have taken the tack of buffing Zombies with new skills, abilities and means of earning XP, leading to Zombies who can do everything but play frisbee and dance the polka. This has not changed the proportion of Zombie characters in the game one whit, but has instead led to some very, very dismal times for the Survivor characters. Why has it not worked? Because there was no problem in the first place: players were simply taking and playing the role they wanted to play. Doing so is the whole point of an RPG.
:It's not the job of a Suggestion page or a game designer to tell players which role they should want to play. The goal should just be to provide the game mechanic tools and character gen choices necessary to fulfill whatever role the players might envision (as appropriate to the setting), without any significant imbalance among those choices.--[[User:Nosimplehiway|Nosimplehiway]] 15:45, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

::It really has nothing to with 'winning' or 'losing' (whatever those terms mean here), it has to do with the problem of relative lack of activity in native settlements, historically in the game and continuing presently, which weakens and limits the game, it seriously stifles the game and its growth and success. Understand that we were/are speaking here out of genuine concern for the game, not as a couple of sore native-players pouting about us only making up 32% of the game population, or some such thing. One major reason people have not chosen to make native "alts" (your argument of why the great majority would make their "main account" an outsider is solid) is the knowledge of many of the very real inferiorities built into the game (unintentionally) against the native faction, which discouraged people from playing as them, or induced them to idle out their native accounts. And lack of any cool advantages to playing natives. Historically there was every reason ''not'' to play as a native. The historical inferiorities built into the game for natives has mostly been corrected over the months, but more can be done to balance things, and there should be some more incentive to play a native than there presently is, in my opinion. This will encourage more people, when they are making another account, to consider making it a native. Pirate overpopulation remains a serious problem too (see forum thread linked to above for the 'why'). [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 01:30, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

===Actions exclusive to character type===
Actions that Natives by default can perform, that Outsiders by default cannot:
*Can determine the difference between "Tasty" and "Poisonous" berries.
*Can use Blowpipe and poison darts
*Can use Healing Herbs
*Can understand other Natives

Actions that Outsiders by default can perform, that Natives by default cannot:
*Can use a GPS unit
*Can use Rifles and bullets
*Can use First Aid Kits
*Can understand other Outsiders

==Class balance==
'''Axiom''': No class should have a complete advantage over the other.

===Soldiers and warriors===
According to the [[Talk:Character Classes|chart]], Soldiers have a slight advantage over other classes in regards to skills. Add to that their high HP, gives them even more of an edge. The only disadvantage they face is the process of searching and reloading ammunition. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:52, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
:Assuming that chart is accurate, the soldier isn't even the most advantageous class among his own group! The scientist has more total skills available then a soldier, and if you give more preference to being able to shoot a gun, then it is important to note how low search rates are, and that ammunition is even more rare. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:27, 3 March 2006 (GMT)
::The chart isn't complete. I did make some assumptions in possible skills based on what we know about the skill trees, but I don't think that it was wholly inaccurate to do so. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 00:40, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

===Shamans===
Shamans supposedly don't start with any items and have the lowest HP.
*Counterpoint: Shamans and their outsider counterpart, Scientists, are among some of the highest ranking characters at the moment. Something is obviously working. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:52, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
:What shamen may lack in starting inventory they more than make up for in overall skill potential (seemingly the most of any class). What good is starting with a banana or a few extra bullets by comparison? --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:27, 3 March 2006 (GMT)
::Say What now? Which skill is exclusively shaman? I've seen none.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 14:58, 8 May 2006 (BST)
:::At the time of writing, the shaman class seemed to have access to skill trees that other classes did not. Those comments are no longer accurate. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 19:03, 8 May 2006 (BST)
::::It is possible that Scientist and Shaman have a slightly higher find rate for items -- there is not nearly enough data to know if something like that is the case. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:45, 15 May 2006 (BST)

===Population===
According to the statistics, there is a lack of interest in Villagers and Settlers. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:52, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
:I agree, at this point there doesn't seem to be any overiding appeal for these classes, which logically should be the most abundant, at least with regards to villagers. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:27, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

There are currently two more Villagers than Scouts. Settlers currently remain the lowest. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:44, 8 May 2006 (BST)
:The introduction of Scavenging makes the Villager and Settler extremely powerful. Currently the Scout and Explorer appear weakest (their higher max AP pool isn't noted on the character class page, and also they might have a lower chance of 'forgetting' without cartography...). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 05:48, 8 May 2006 (BST)
::That possible cartography-related ability is interesting. Never considered that. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 07:15, 8 May 2006 (BST)

===Mechanics===
Are there any game mechanics (besides HP, starting inventory, and available skills) that are influenced by your character class? Should there be? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:52, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
*Inventory size
*Base accuracy
*Base damage
*Search odds
*AP limit

*I have 3 characters and i have more higher search odds with the scientist (3 heavy swords) than the others .. i don't know if it's only a matter of luck or not..--[[User:JonesDye|JonesDye]] 10:08, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

It has since been revealed that Scouts may possess more AP than the other classes. (See [[Requests for information]] for more) --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:44, 8 May 2006 (BST)

== Gameplay balance (XP-gaining paths) ==

'''Interactivity Axiom:''' Generally speaking, player-player interaction improves a game, and should be encouraged.

'''Diversity Axiom:''' Generally speaking, having players engaging in a wide range of activities improves a game, and should be encouraged.

'''Diversity in XP-Gaining Corollary:''' There should be multiple distinct paths to gaining XP.

Three Fundamental Axioms of Gaining XP:

'''DANGER AXIOM:''' Ways of earning XP that are '''dangerous''' and '''risky''' should be more lucrative than ways that are '''safe'''. (Dangerous: chance of death; risky: variable gains, a chance of little gain.)
*A. Danger is often actualized as loss of AP through death or wounds, and accurate economic analysis must account for these additional costs.
*B. Variable (risky) returns are not as valuable as a guaranteed return with the same mean value -- compare the stock market to treasury bills.
*C. Rewarding dangerous playing styles typically increases interactivity and diversity.

'''COMPLEXITY AXIOM:''' Ways of earning XP that are '''complex''' and '''challenging''' should be more lucrative than ways that are '''simple'''.
*A. The richness of complexity and challenge attracts more players to a game.
*B. A long learning curve keeps players interested.
*C. Complexity typically increases interactivity and diversity.

'''COHERENCY AXIOM:''' Ways of earning XP that are '''absorbing''' and '''realistic''' should be more lucrative than ways that are '''irrational'''. (Realistic: here means plausible and self-coherent – vampires that fear sunlight and crosses are fine, vampires that fear grassland and snakes are not.)
*A. A game with a rich and engaging atmosphere keeps players more interested than a game that is arbitrary and incomprehensible.

In other words, if we observe paths to XP that are Safe, Simple, and Unrealistic, these paths should provide less XP per AP than other paths that are Dangerous, Complex, and Absorbing.

'''Broader Applicability of these Axioms:''' Note that these axioms are stated for earning XP, but they apply equally to earning Gold Coins, appearing on a high score list, or achieving any other victory conditions.

Shartak Communist Party

2007-02-18T00:15:31Z

Arminius: to make my own link work, dont construe this as me aiding the Reds! ;

#REDIRECT [[The Shartak Communist Party]]

Shartak Anti-Communists

2007-02-18T00:14:12Z

Arminius: Shartak anti-Communist league formed! We stand for freedom and hate communists.

Formed in reaction to recent communist activity on Shartak, and unapologetically dedicated to ridding Shartak of the Red Disease.

Our efforts include countering the propaganda of the communist extremists of the SCP ([[Shartak Communist Party]]) across the island, and keeping an eye on their ultra-leftist allies in the AoS ([[Anarchists of Shartak]]), and also countering the military actions of communist terrorists such as "[[User:Che|Che]]".

Currently offering 20-gold-coins rewards for anyone who kills a communist, collectible at any branch of the Bank. (must provide Underworld proof). "I kill communists for fun, but for 20 gold coins, I'd carve him up real nice".

Live Free or Die.

http://www.shartak.com/clanview.cgi?id=141

===News===
16th February 07 - Organisation formed.

Game design

2007-01-22T13:42:17Z

Arminius: /* Population */ class totals updated, and a brief note

{| style="margin: 0 0 1em 1em; float: right"
| __TOC__
|}
This an open forum to discuss '''game design'''. These are neither [[Bugs]] nor [[Suggestions]] (though they may lead to bug reports and game proposals) but rather points to consider for maintaining balance and consistency.

==Combat-centric gameplay==
Combat appears to be the most efective way to earn XP. I believe that there must be a means to reward non-combatants more than what healing and chopping vegetation provides. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 04:05, 15 March 2006 (GMT)
* Shouldn't exploring be rewarded? Isn't that why statistics on exploration are kept? --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 02:51, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
** It is, but in a fairly limited manner - chance of getting 1XP for chopping into a d10 jungle block. Of course, what with all the intrepid explorers wandering around, there don't seem to be that many of those right now. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 23:57, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
*** Even worse, the chance of getting the 1XP at all seems terrible. Chopping d10 Jungle is the Book-reading of Shartak. In my humble opinion, chopping max jungle should be closer to 33%-100% chance of 1XP, in order to result in at least as much XP as eating forbidden fruit (farming the poison berry / mango grove; about 4 XP per 12 AP). My XP comes from killing animals ... And a game-wide tally of XP earned would probably show similar overall results. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:22, 12 April 2006 (BST)
**** (Previous comment was made before the stealth game modification of 1XP chance from chopping jungle - has the chance of gaining XP now been increased to 33%??) --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:40, 15 May 2006 (BST)

And I suppose it's not just an issue of XP, but also recognizing other playing goals. In addition to kills, there should be a log for non-combat-oriented activities like healing, revival, chopping, searching, swimming. This would however require a great deal of variable recording and I'm not familiar with supporting an MMORPG to know what kind of stress that would put on the server. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 20:34, 16 April 2006 (BST)

==Slow combat==
Base accuracy for a weapon is higher than a fist, which is arguably unrealistic. One assumes that you would be less skilled with a weapon than your own hand. (I recall reading a similar comment to this, but I can't find it at the moment.) --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:52, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
*All characters appear to have a 10% chance to deal 1 damage with punching.
*Knives and Daggers appear to have a 20% chance to deal 1 damage.

:maybe it is just the punch only has a ten percent chance to actually doing damage(the text does say missed however), I know if i fought somebody who has a knife(or dagger) in RL they would do more to me than me to them, even if niether of us have any training,ex. Fists are a strange weapon and to actually do any damage with a punch(mainly only at the strongest point in your swing) you have to have some good timing.-- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 02:02, 3 March 2006 (GMT)
::I see what you're saying... how about punch 50-70% with a 20-30% chance of inflicting 1 damage after a successful hit, 0 damage otherwise (making it 10-21% but with 3 different messages - miss, hit but don't do damage, hit and do damage). --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 10:56, 4 March 2006 (GMT)
:Let me point out that this isn't really a problem. It's just something that a die-hard realist would try to press. On one hand, you can have Fists as the most accurate weapon until you get weapon skills (which will make the the first levels incredibly painful). On the other hand, you can have weapons as more accurate than fists (which allow new users to quickly become involved in the game). I don't know if I'd have the patience if it took me 70 AP to kill a parrot. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 16:12, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

==Type (faction) balance==
'''Axiom''': Outsiders and Natives should not have a complete advantage over the other. 
'''Axiom''': Outsiders and Natives should be different, but equal.

===Population===
Natives are currently outnumbered by Outsiders. --04:05, 15 March 2006 (GMT)
* The introduction of Pirates as an Outsider character class may further tip the population imbalance without a Native counterpart. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 02:49, 20 March 2006 (GMT)

Outsiders continue to greatly outnumber natives, as of September 3 2006 the margin was 65%-35% in favor of outsiders, with 719 active outsiders vs. 393 active natives. This is down from a ratio of 67%-33% several months ago. The population breakdown by town and village is not available (and not significant anyway, since at any time characters from a given town will be all over the island). The following are class-by-class breakdowns of active characters:

<div>
{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" style="background-color: #f9f9f9; border: solid 1px #ccc; border-collapse: collapse; float: left" |
|-bgcolor="#ccc"
|colspan="3" align="center"|'''970 active players (15 May 2006)'''
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Outsiders'''||'''651'''||'''67%'''
|-
|Explorers||85||9%
|-
|Soldiers||241||25%
|-
|Settlers||37||4%
|-
|Scientists||62||6%
|-
|''Total'' w/o ''Pirates''||425||44%
|-
|Pirates||226||23%
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Natives'''||'''319'''||'''33%'''
|-
|Shamans||117||12%
|-
|Warriors||121||12%
|-
|Villagers||43||4%
|-
|Scouts||38||4%
|}

{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" style="background-color: #f9f9f9; border: solid 1px #ccc; border-collapse: collapse; float: left; margin-left: 1em" |
|-bgcolor="#ccc"
|colspan="3" align="center"|'''1037 active players (21 June 2006)'''
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Outsiders'''||'''695'''||'''67%'''
|-
|Explorers||71||7%
|-
|Soldiers||240||23%
|-
|Settlers||46||4%
|-
|Scientists||65||6%
|-
|''Total'' w/o ''Pirates'':||422||41%
|-
|Pirates||273||26%
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Natives'''||'''342'''||'''33%'''
|-
|Shamans||128||12%
|-
|Warriors||129||12%
|-
|Villagers||39||4%
|-
|Scouts||46||4%
|}

{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" style="background-color: #f9f9f9; border: solid 1px #ccc; border-collapse: collapse; float: left; margin-left: 1em" |
|-bgcolor="#ccc"
|colspan="3" align="center"|'''1112 active players (3 September 2006)'''
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Outsiders'''||'''719'''||'''65%'''
|-
|Explorers||87||8%
|-
|Soldiers||244||22%
|-
|Settlers||43||4%
|-
|Scientists||67||6%
|-
|''Total'' w/o ''Pirates'':||441||40%
|-
|Pirates||278||25%
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Natives'''||'''393'''||'''35%'''
|-
|Shamans||131||12%
|-
|Warriors||163||15%
|-
|Villagers||46||4%
|-
|Scouts||53||5%
|}

{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" style="background-color: #f9f9f9; border: solid 1px #ccc; border-collapse: collapse; float: left; margin-left: 1em" |
|-bgcolor="#ccc"
|colspan="3" align="center"|'''1121 active players (22 January 2007)'''
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Outsiders'''||'''755'''||'''67%'''
|-
|Explorers||91||8%
|-
|Soldiers||259||23%
|-
|Settlers||51||5%
|-
|Scientists||52||5%
|-
|''Total'' w/o ''Pirates'':||453||40%
|-
|Pirates||302||27%
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Natives'''||'''366'''||'''33%'''
|-
|Shamans||107||10%
|-
|Warriors||150||13%
|-
|Villagers||61||5%
|-
|Scouts||48||4%
|}
 

Notes:
*<s>Outsiders have a huge advantage with 5 HP bottles of water vs 1 HP gourds of water.</s> Fixed.
*<s>Outsider soldiers have a big advantage over warriors, since the blowpipe is worthless.</s> Fixed.
*Outsider camps are coastal (easy to find driftwood, hard to get lost). Outsiders have the cool and valuable GPS units, while wiki-less natives get terribly lost in the jungle -- that doesn't make sense. Natives should innately know their way home as an advantage to counterbalance their geographic location and loss of GPS. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 07:49, 27 May 2006 (BST) (revised 01:46, 22 June 2006 (UTC))
*Outsiders have a large advantage over natives by sheer force of numbers, though this is mitigated by pirates being a somewhat separate group from the non-pirate outsiders.
*On both sides the largest class is the soldier class. On the outsider side this is not out of line with the storyline of the game, as early colonial efforts were often heavily military-based, but it is somewhat out of line with the native side.
*There is an inordinate number of native shamans and pirates. The pirates can be explained easily enough (a fleet of pirate ships crashed and they saw the chance to loot the island), but why would 37% of natives be shamans?
::(I'm not bothered by this, Shartak is so stuffed with wailing spirits that attuned natives make sense. The name of the class cannot and should not define or constrain the role that the player wants to play - there are some shamans who explore, others who trade, some who kill outsiders and some who kill their own tribe. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 07:49, 27 May 2006 (BST))
*Settlers and villagers remain the smallest groups, despite having the great Scavenging skill available to them. If this lack of settlers/villagers is seen as a problem, one thing to do could be to boost their starting inventory and change their description on the sign up page to something more exciting (it currently says "just your average outsider/native")
*'''January 2007 update''': Population percentages and totals have remained remarkably static over the past 8 months. Native underpopulation remains a problem, and [http://forum.shartak.com/index.php/topic,83.msg1860.html#msg1860 pirate overpopulation remains a problem](?).

===Actions exclusive to character type===
Actions that Natives by default can perform, that Outsiders by default cannot:
*Can determine the difference between "Tasty" and "Poisonous" berries.
*Can use Blowpipe and poison darts
*Can use Healing Herbs
*Can understand other Natives

Actions that Outsiders by default can perform, that Natives by default cannot:
*Can use a GPS unit
*Can use Rifles and bullets
*Can use First Aid Kits
*Can understand other Outsiders

==Class balance==
'''Axiom''': No class should have a complete advantage over the other.

===Soldiers and warriors===
According to the [[Talk:Character Classes|chart]], Soldiers have a slight advantage over other classes in regards to skills. Add to that their high HP, gives them even more of an edge. The only disadvantage they face is the process of searching and reloading ammunition. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:52, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
:Assuming that chart is accurate, the soldier isn't even the most advantageous class among his own group! The scientist has more total skills available then a soldier, and if you give more preference to being able to shoot a gun, then it is important to note how low search rates are, and that ammunition is even more rare. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:27, 3 March 2006 (GMT)
::The chart isn't complete. I did make some assumptions in possible skills based on what we know about the skill trees, but I don't think that it was wholly inaccurate to do so. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 00:40, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

===Shamans===
Shamans supposedly don't start with any items and have the lowest HP.
*Counterpoint: Shamans and their outsider counterpart, Scientists, are among some of the highest ranking characters at the moment. Something is obviously working. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:52, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
:What shamen may lack in starting inventory they more than make up for in overall skill potential (seemingly the most of any class). What good is starting with a banana or a few extra bullets by comparison? --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:27, 3 March 2006 (GMT)
::Say What now? Which skill is exclusively shaman? I've seen none.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 14:58, 8 May 2006 (BST)
:::At the time of writing, the shaman class seemed to have access to skill trees that other classes did not. Those comments are no longer accurate. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 19:03, 8 May 2006 (BST)
::::It is possible that Scientist and Shaman have a slightly higher find rate for items -- there is not nearly enough data to know if something like that is the case. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:45, 15 May 2006 (BST)

===Population===
According to the statistics, there is a lack of interest in Villagers and Settlers. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:52, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
:I agree, at this point there doesn't seem to be any overiding appeal for these classes, which logically should be the most abundant, at least with regards to villagers. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:27, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

There are currently two more Villagers than Scouts. Settlers currently remain the lowest. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:44, 8 May 2006 (BST)
:The introduction of Scavenging makes the Villager and Settler extremely powerful. Currently the Scout and Explorer appear weakest (their higher max AP pool isn't noted on the character class page, and also they might have a lower chance of 'forgetting' without cartography...). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 05:48, 8 May 2006 (BST)
::That possible cartography-related ability is interesting. Never considered that. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 07:15, 8 May 2006 (BST)

===Mechanics===
Are there any game mechanics (besides HP, starting inventory, and available skills) that are influenced by your character class? Should there be? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:52, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
*Inventory size
*Base accuracy
*Base damage
*Search odds
*AP limit

*I have 3 characters and i have more higher search odds with the scientist (3 heavy swords) than the others .. i don't know if it's only a matter of luck or not..--[[User:JonesDye|JonesDye]] 10:08, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

It has since been revealed that Scouts may possess more AP than the other classes. (See [[Requests for information]] for more) --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:44, 8 May 2006 (BST)

== Gameplay balance (XP-gaining paths) ==

'''Interactivity Axiom:''' Generally speaking, player-player interaction improves a game, and should be encouraged.

'''Diversity Axiom:''' Generally speaking, having players engaging in a wide range of activities improves a game, and should be encouraged.

'''Diversity in XP-Gaining Corollary:''' There should be multiple distinct paths to gaining XP.

Three Fundamental Axioms of Gaining XP:

'''DANGER AXIOM:''' Ways of earning XP that are '''dangerous''' and '''risky''' should be more lucrative than ways that are '''safe'''. (Dangerous: chance of death; risky: variable gains, a chance of little gain.)
*A. Danger is often actualized as loss of AP through death or wounds, and accurate economic analysis must account for these additional costs.
*B. Variable (risky) returns are not as valuable as a guaranteed return with the same mean value -- compare the stock market to treasury bills.
*C. Rewarding dangerous playing styles typically increases interactivity and diversity.

'''COMPLEXITY AXIOM:''' Ways of earning XP that are '''complex''' and '''challenging''' should be more lucrative than ways that are '''simple'''.
*A. The richness of complexity and challenge attracts more players to a game.
*B. A long learning curve keeps players interested.
*C. Complexity typically increases interactivity and diversity.

'''COHERENCY AXIOM:''' Ways of earning XP that are '''absorbing''' and '''realistic''' should be more lucrative than ways that are '''irrational'''. (Realistic: here means plausible and self-coherent – vampires that fear sunlight and crosses are fine, vampires that fear grassland and snakes are not.)
*A. A game with a rich and engaging atmosphere keeps players more interested than a game that is arbitrary and incomprehensible.

In other words, if we observe paths to XP that are Safe, Simple, and Unrealistic, these paths should provide less XP per AP than other paths that are Dangerous, Complex, and Absorbing.

'''Broader Applicability of these Axioms:''' Note that these axioms are stated for earning XP, but they apply equally to earning Gold Coins, appearing on a high score list, or achieving any other victory conditions.

Game design

2006-09-03T02:03:02Z

Arminius: /* Population */ updated class totals

{| style="margin: 0 0 1em 1em; float: right"
| __TOC__
|}
This an open forum to discuss '''game design'''. These are neither [[Bugs]] nor [[Suggestions]] (though they may lead to bug reports and game proposals) but rather points to consider for maintaining balance and consistency.

==Combat-centric gameplay==
Combat appears to be the most efective way to earn XP. I believe that there must be a means to reward non-combatants more than what healing and chopping vegetation provides. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 04:05, 15 March 2006 (GMT)
* Shouldn't exploring be rewarded? Isn't that why statistics on exploration are kept? --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 02:51, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
** It is, but in a fairly limited manner - chance of getting 1XP for chopping into a d10 jungle block. Of course, what with all the intrepid explorers wandering around, there don't seem to be that many of those right now. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 23:57, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
*** Even worse, the chance of getting the 1XP at all seems terrible. Chopping d10 Jungle is the Book-reading of Shartak. In my humble opinion, chopping max jungle should be closer to 33%-100% chance of 1XP, in order to result in at least as much XP as eating forbidden fruit (farming the poison berry / mango grove; about 4 XP per 12 AP). My XP comes from killing animals ... And a game-wide tally of XP earned would probably show similar overall results. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:22, 12 April 2006 (BST)
**** (Previous comment was made before the stealth game modification of 1XP chance from chopping jungle - has the chance of gaining XP now been increased to 33%??) --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:40, 15 May 2006 (BST)

And I suppose it's not just an issue of XP, but also recognizing other playing goals. In addition to kills, there should be a log for non-combat-oriented activities like healing, revival, chopping, searching, swimming. This would however require a great deal of variable recording and I'm not familiar with supporting an MMORPG to know what kind of stress that would put on the server. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 20:34, 16 April 2006 (BST)

==Slow combat==
Base accuracy for a weapon is higher than a fist, which is arguably unrealistic. One assumes that you would be less skilled with a weapon than your own hand. (I recall reading a similar comment to this, but I can't find it at the moment.) --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:52, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
*All characters appear to have a 10% chance to deal 1 damage with punching.
*Knives and Daggers appear to have a 20% chance to deal 1 damage.

:maybe it is just the punch only has a ten percent chance to actually doing damage(the text does say missed however), I know if i fought somebody who has a knife(or dagger) in RL they would do more to me than me to them, even if niether of us have any training,ex. Fists are a strange weapon and to actually do any damage with a punch(mainly only at the strongest point in your swing) you have to have some good timing.-- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 02:02, 3 March 2006 (GMT)
::I see what you're saying... how about punch 50-70% with a 20-30% chance of inflicting 1 damage after a successful hit, 0 damage otherwise (making it 10-21% but with 3 different messages - miss, hit but don't do damage, hit and do damage). --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 10:56, 4 March 2006 (GMT)
:Let me point out that this isn't really a problem. It's just something that a die-hard realist would try to press. On one hand, you can have Fists as the most accurate weapon until you get weapon skills (which will make the the first levels incredibly painful). On the other hand, you can have weapons as more accurate than fists (which allow new users to quickly become involved in the game). I don't know if I'd have the patience if it took me 70 AP to kill a parrot. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 16:12, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

==Type (faction) balance==
'''Axiom''': Outsiders and Natives should not have a complete advantage over the other. 
'''Axiom''': Outsiders and Natives should be different, but equal.

===Population===
Natives are currently outnumbered by Outsiders. --04:05, 15 March 2006 (GMT)
* The introduction of Pirates as an Outsider character class may further tip the population imbalance without a Native counterpart. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 02:49, 20 March 2006 (GMT)

Outsiders continue to greatly outnumber natives, as of September 3 2006 the margin was 65%-35% in favor of outsiders, with 719 active outsiders vs. 393 active natives. This is down from a ratio of 67%-33% several months ago. The population breakdown by town and village is not available (and not significant anyway, since at any time characters from a given town will be all over the island). The following are class-by-class breakdowns of active characters:

<div>
{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" style="background-color: #f9f9f9; border: solid 1px #ccc; border-collapse: collapse; float: left" |
|-bgcolor="#ccc"
|colspan="3" align="center"|'''970 active players (15 May 2006)'''
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Outsiders'''||'''651'''||'''67%'''
|-
|Explorers||85||9%
|-
|Soldiers||241||25%
|-
|Settlers||37||4%
|-
|Scientists||62||6%
|-
|''Total'' w/o ''Pirates''||425||44%
|-
|Pirates||226||23%
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Natives'''||'''319'''||'''33%'''
|-
|Shamans||117||12%
|-
|Warriors||121||12%
|-
|Villagers||43||4%
|-
|Scouts||38||4%
|}

{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" style="background-color: #f9f9f9; border: solid 1px #ccc; border-collapse: collapse; float: left; margin-left: 1em" |
|-bgcolor="#ccc"
|colspan="3" align="center"|'''1037 active players (21 June 2006)'''
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Outsiders'''||'''695'''||'''67%'''
|-
|Explorers||71||7%
|-
|Soldiers||240||23%
|-
|Settlers||46||4%
|-
|Scientists||65||6%
|-
|''Total'' w/o ''Pirates'':||422||41%
|-
|Pirates||273||26%
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Natives'''||'''342'''||'''33%'''
|-
|Shamans||128||12%
|-
|Warriors||129||12%
|-
|Villagers||39||4%
|-
|Scouts||46||4%
|}

{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" style="background-color: #f9f9f9; border: solid 1px #ccc; border-collapse: collapse; float: left; margin-left: 1em" |
|-bgcolor="#ccc"
|colspan="3" align="center"|'''1112 active players (3 September 2006)'''
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Outsiders'''||'''719'''||'''65%'''
|-
|Explorers||87||8%
|-
|Soldiers||244||22%
|-
|Settlers||43||4%
|-
|Scientists||67||6%
|-
|''Total'' w/o ''Pirates'':||441||40%
|-
|Pirates||278||25%
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Natives'''||'''393'''||'''35%'''
|-
|Shamans||131||12%
|-
|Warriors||163||15%
|-
|Villagers||46||4%
|-
|Scouts||53||5%
|}
 

Notes:
*<s>Outsiders have a huge advantage with 5 HP bottles of water vs 1 HP gourds of water.</s> Fixed.
*<s>Outsider soldiers have a big advantage over warriors, since the blowpipe is worthless.</s> Fixed.
*Outsider camps are coastal (easy to find driftwood, hard to get lost). Outsiders have the cool and valuable GPS units, while wiki-less natives get terribly lost in the jungle -- that doesn't make sense. Natives should innately know their way home as an advantage to counterbalance their geographic location and loss of GPS. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 07:49, 27 May 2006 (BST) (revised 01:46, 22 June 2006 (UTC))
*Outsiders have a large advantage over natives by sheer force of numbers, though this is mitigated by pirates being a somewhat separate group from the non-pirate outsiders.
*On both sides the largest class is the soldier class. On the outsider side this is not out of line with the storyline of the game, as early colonial efforts were often heavily military-based, but it is somewhat out of line with the native side.
*There is an inordinate number of native shamans and pirates. The pirates can be explained easily enough (a fleet of pirate ships crashed and they saw the chance to loot the island), but why would 37% of natives be shamans?
::(I'm not bothered by this, Shartak is so stuffed with wailing spirits that attuned natives make sense. The name of the class cannot and should not define or constrain the role that the player wants to play - there are some shamans who explore, others who trade, some who kill outsiders and some who kill their own tribe. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 07:49, 27 May 2006 (BST))
*Settlers and villagers remain the smallest groups, despite having the great Scavenging skill available to them. If this lack of settlers/villagers is seen as a problem, one thing to do could be to boost their starting inventory and change their description on the sign up page to something more exciting (it currently says "just your average outsider/native")

===Actions exclusive to character type===
Actions that Natives by default can perform, that Outsiders by default cannot:
*Can determine the difference between "Tasty" and "Poisonous" berries.
*Can use Blowpipe and poison darts
*Can use Healing Herbs
*Can understand other Natives

Actions that Outsiders by default can perform, that Natives by default cannot:
*Can use a GPS unit
*Can use Rifles and bullets
*Can use First Aid Kits
*Can understand other Outsiders

==Class balance==
'''Axiom''': No class should have a complete advantage over the other.

===Soldiers and warriors===
According to the [[Talk:Character Classes|chart]], Soldiers have a slight advantage over other classes in regards to skills. Add to that their high HP, gives them even more of an edge. The only disadvantage they face is the process of searching and reloading ammunition. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:52, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
:Assuming that chart is accurate, the soldier isn't even the most advantageous class among his own group! The scientist has more total skills available then a soldier, and if you give more preference to being able to shoot a gun, then it is important to note how low search rates are, and that ammunition is even more rare. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:27, 3 March 2006 (GMT)
::The chart isn't complete. I did make some assumptions in possible skills based on what we know about the skill trees, but I don't think that it was wholly inaccurate to do so. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 00:40, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

===Shamans===
Shamans supposedly don't start with any items and have the lowest HP.
*Counterpoint: Shamans and their outsider counterpart, Scientists, are among some of the highest ranking characters at the moment. Something is obviously working. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:52, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
:What shamen may lack in starting inventory they more than make up for in overall skill potential (seemingly the most of any class). What good is starting with a banana or a few extra bullets by comparison? --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:27, 3 March 2006 (GMT)
::Say What now? Which skill is exclusively shaman? I've seen none.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 14:58, 8 May 2006 (BST)
:::At the time of writing, the shaman class seemed to have access to skill trees that other classes did not. Those comments are no longer accurate. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 19:03, 8 May 2006 (BST)
::::It is possible that Scientist and Shaman have a slightly higher find rate for items -- there is not nearly enough data to know if something like that is the case. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:45, 15 May 2006 (BST)

===Population===
According to the statistics, there is a lack of interest in Villagers and Settlers. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:52, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
:I agree, at this point there doesn't seem to be any overiding appeal for these classes, which logically should be the most abundant, at least with regards to villagers. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:27, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

There are currently two more Villagers than Scouts. Settlers currently remain the lowest. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:44, 8 May 2006 (BST)
:The introduction of Scavenging makes the Villager and Settler extremely powerful. Currently the Scout and Explorer appear weakest (their higher max AP pool isn't noted on the character class page, and also they might have a lower chance of 'forgetting' without cartography...). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 05:48, 8 May 2006 (BST)
::That possible cartography-related ability is interesting. Never considered that. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 07:15, 8 May 2006 (BST)

===Mechanics===
Are there any game mechanics (besides HP, starting inventory, and available skills) that are influenced by your character class? Should there be? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:52, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
*Inventory size
*Base accuracy
*Base damage
*Search odds
*AP limit

*I have 3 characters and i have more higher search odds with the scientist (3 heavy swords) than the others .. i don't know if it's only a matter of luck or not..--[[User:JonesDye|JonesDye]] 10:08, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

It has since been revealed that Scouts may possess more AP than the other classes. (See [[Requests for information]] for more) --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:44, 8 May 2006 (BST)

== Gameplay balance (XP-gaining paths) ==

'''Interactivity Axiom:''' Generally speaking, player-player interaction improves a game, and should be encouraged.

'''Diversity Axiom:''' Generally speaking, having players engaging in a wide range of activities improves a game, and should be encouraged.

'''Diversity in XP-Gaining Corollary:''' There should be multiple distinct paths to gaining XP.

Three Fundamental Axioms of Gaining XP:

'''DANGER AXIOM:''' Ways of earning XP that are '''dangerous''' and '''risky''' should be more lucrative than ways that are '''safe'''. (Dangerous: chance of death; risky: variable gains, a chance of little gain.)
*A. Danger is often actualized as loss of AP through death or wounds, and accurate economic analysis must account for these additional costs.
*B. Variable (risky) returns are not as valuable as a guaranteed return with the same mean value -- compare the stock market to treasury bills.
*C. Rewarding dangerous playing styles typically increases interactivity and diversity.

'''COMPLEXITY AXIOM:''' Ways of earning XP that are '''complex''' and '''challenging''' should be more lucrative than ways that are '''simple'''.
*A. The richness of complexity and challenge attracts more players to a game.
*B. A long learning curve keeps players interested.
*C. Complexity typically increases interactivity and diversity.

'''COHERENCY AXIOM:''' Ways of earning XP that are '''absorbing''' and '''realistic''' should be more lucrative than ways that are '''irrational'''. (Realistic: here means plausible and self-coherent – vampires that fear sunlight and crosses are fine, vampires that fear grassland and snakes are not.)
*A. A game with a rich and engaging atmosphere keeps players more interested than a game that is arbitrary and incomprehensible.

In other words, if we observe paths to XP that are Safe, Simple, and Unrealistic, these paths should provide less XP per AP than other paths that are Dangerous, Complex, and Absorbing.

'''Broader Applicability of these Axioms:''' Note that these axioms are stated for earning XP, but they apply equally to earning Gold Coins, appearing on a high score list, or achieving any other victory conditions.

Suggestions:Miscellaneous

2006-08-27T00:48:41Z

Arminius: /* Breakable weapons */

{{Suggestions header|page_type=Miscellaneous}}

== Miscellaneous ==

=== Tunnels ===
Tunnels underneath the island lead to interesting places.

''Comments''
:How do you know they don't exist? :) [[User:Dr._J|Dr. J]]
::Tunnels underneath the island '''lead to interesting places.''' --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:43, 8 June 2006 (BST)
----

=== Treasure to capture ===
"Capture the flag" type objective, in this case the flags are treasure from each village. Bonus points in the form of XP or gold coins to be awarded to the holder of the treasure at certain intervals.

''Comments''
:I would like to modify this slightly Mystery Suggester. Please see the '''[[Suggestions:Game_mechanics#Unique_Item_Hunt|Unique Item Hunt]]''' suggestion. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
----

=== Player VS Player Interaction ===
I would propoese a to hit % penalty for attacking members of same Home location. I believe this will promote exploration and perhaps offer a measure of protection of newly "birthed" population. As a recent victim of death by the hands of a warrior from my own villiage this has a bit of appeal to me ;). - [[User:Nankilstlas|Nan]]

''Comments''
:Instead of a hit % penalty, what about reducing or eliminating XP earned for such attacks? It would be similar to the ZvZ penalty used in UrbanDead, and its easier to rationalize not getting as much experience fighting one of your own than to rationalize that its harder to hit your own people for some reason. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 19:52, 27 February 2006 (GMT)

:The to hit penalty and the lack of XP should be combined to discourage intravillage conflicts but only on nonclan members(so clans from the same village can fight with each other to simulate a power struggle for leadership), extend this to shamans as well, as its not often the village shaman gets killed by an out-of-towner. --[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 00:27, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

:I don't like this idea--especially with the inclusion of pirates in the game. It makes sense for pirates to trun on each other now and then, or to turn to pillaging from one of the outsider towns. All of a sudden, for our good RPing we get a reduced chance to hit and no XP?--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:30, 29 March 2006 (BST)

:I have suggested a full non player vs player implementation at [[Suggestions:Game_mechanics#PvP_Protection]]. --[[User:Iamtas|Iamtas]] 10:10, 13 April 2006 (BST)

:Players already get less XP for attacking someone from their own camp, and no kill bonus (if I remember correctly). You would still gain a bit of experience from fighting with your own, just not quite as much as when it's a life or death situation against someone hostile. Do we really need this suggestion to be implemented? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:28, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
----

=== Spirit Movement ===

A couple thoughts on this topic.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 02:29, 6 March 2006 (GMT)

*My character has the "trekking" skill, but as a spirit, actually moves '''slower''' (1 AP per square) than when he's alive! Spirits should move '''at least''' as fast as someone skilled at traversing terrain.
::Perhaps spirits have less impetus than live characters --[[User:Dr. J|Dr. J]] 18:55, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

*Spirits move effortlessly through the thickest jungle, water, swamp--as it should be. Why should mountains be an impediment?
:Perhaps there's some kind of mineral in the mountain that prevents the spirit from passing through it.. could be mined later on to spirit-proof huts or something (clutching at straws here, can you tell) ?
:They also can't move through the deepest water, but that is the boundary of the game I'm guessing.

So what's the suggestion here? Perhaps this belongs in the Talk page instead? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 17:51, 27 May 2006 (BST)

:Is the suggestion that spirits can move for 0.5AP instead of 1AP regardless of terrain? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:29, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

::Fast-moving spirits don't make sense to me. Zipping across Shartak by dying doesn't seem right (unless you're contacting the home shaman). I prefer the idea of a spirit that is somewhat "bound" to their site of death. A high fixed movement cost per square (1AP or 2AP) creates this binding effect. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 05:19, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:The main problem with this suggestion is that it lets spirits travel faster than everyone but explorers (since heavy jungle sometimes gets in a trekker's way), meaning that if you're dead and have somewhere to be, it's better to float across the island than walk across it. This means fewer visible people in the jungle and fewer player interactions overall. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 05:01, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

----

===Player Titles===

To supplement the explored/killed statistics, give players rank titles based on percentiles. For example, if Jack is in the bottom 10% of explorers and the 30th percentile of hunters, his profile would show him as "Greenhorn Jack the Good Shot", if Sheila is in the top 10% killers and middle 50 explorer, she would be "The Adventurous Sheila, Grandmaster Hunter", and [[User:Murk|Murk]] would simply be "Demigod Murk". The titles would be determined once a day like the stats, only apply to active players, and only take active players into consideration when determining percentile. This will help statistics be more relevant to all players, as once time goes on and new players start, the top 100 may be quite a distant goal. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 04:15, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
:I like it. It adds flavor to the game. I also agree that this system should be based on dynamic percentiles to allow for new players to compete with some of the more established ranking players. A static listing would be incredibly difficult for newcomers to break into. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:12, 11 March 2006 (GMT)

*This could be done in a similar manner to the rogue elephants and ferocious tigers that we have now. Several questions need to be answered first.
:* A title for every player or just those in the weekly top A% of whatever chart?
:* Just to be displayed in the profile or in the location description as well e.g. Here you can see [http://www.shartak.com/profile.cgi?id=1850 Fatninja], the hunter, and [http://www.shartak.com/profile.cgi?id=6 Leaky Bocks].
:* What kind of statistics would need to be kept for this to work?
::* areas explored for the explorer titles - not a problem, we have the top 20 explorers this week already, it can be expanded to include however many players are required to make it work since it's just a case of manipulating the raw data differently.
::* animal kills for the hunter titles? specific types of animals killed e.g "Bob the parrot killer", "Fred the big game hunter", "Bert the murderer" (pkills) rather than just all animals killed?
::* something for some other kind of title, trading perhaps? "Tycho the master salesperson" for example ;)
:* Of the above, the explorer titles are the easiest to do. Kills will need some adjusting because there are no database timestamps on kills at the moment, just raw quantities as seen on the [http://www.shartak.com/statkills.html kill statistics] page..
:--[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:43, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

:: A title for every character, with the top A% appearing in the location description and profile pages, and everyone else only appearing in the profile page - this lets everyone know where they stand and keeps the location page less cluttered. For statistics, some records for healers and wailers should be kept in addition to trading, like HP healed (modified by recipient's travelling/trading/killing stats), number of times screamed/shrieked/wailed (balanced for severity of attack), number of trades (modified by number of towns trades were done in and rarity of item). Kills in particular to the animal that has been killed would be more distinctive and flavourful - should it also be in particular to the town (or clan??) for pkills, making "the Butcher of York" an official title?

:: Weekly tabulating of titles will make them very transient. Perhaps once a title is acquired it is kept so long as you're halfway to that title each successive week (not affecting others gaining the same title if they're in the appropriate rankings)? --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 15:42, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

::I thought a little bit about this after I made that early comment. It becomes fairly hard for a newbie to compete with the existing stat leaders regardless if the awards were static or scaling. I think the best way to handle this is a two-tiered approach, one that rewards players for accomplishing static minor goals and one that rewards players for being the highest rank. The latter is already accomplished through the statistics, but the former has not been addressed. Most of what follows is inspired by a [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Talk:Suggestions&diff=prev&oldid=173904 draft suggestion] on the Urban Dead wiki and my experience with Nexus War. I see these award descriptions appearing only on the profile pages to cut down on clutter. Each degree of award is assigned at some arbitrary number. Perhaps 10, 100, 500 (with more titles developed as the game progresses). When a player achieves a target number, an award flag is raised. Every 24 hour period, the server will compute the rankings and append a prefix or suffix to the player's existing award.
::* Area explored - Wanderer, Traveller, Adventurer
:::Bonus prefixes for top-ranking explorers: Top 1% - Worldly, Top 5% - Experienced, Top 20% - (e.g., Worldly Adventurer)
::* Hasn't killed anyone - Pacifist
::* Killed animals - Herder, Hunter, Slayer
:::Bonus prefixes to state which type of animal the player has killed the most (e.g., Wild Boar Herder, Elephant Hunter, Special Slayer)
::* Killed opposing side - Killer, Fighter, Conqueror
::* Killed same side - Turncoat, Backstabber, Traitor
:::Bonus prefixes for top-ranking killers: Top 1% - Bloodthirsty, Top 5% - Fierce, Top 20% - Brutal (e.g., Bloodthirsty Conqueror, Bloodthirsty Traitor, Bloodthirsty Wild Boar Slayer).

----

===Inventory Limit===

I think I would like to have an indication of how much of my inventory limit is being used up. :D --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:12, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
* The inventory is somewhat flexible in size (+/- 2) so wouldn't be completely foolproof if represented as "(x/y)" appended to the inventory header, I could do something like a small bit of text just below the header like "You can carry lots more" "You can carry more things" "You can't carry much more" "You might be able to carry a couple more things" "You can't carry anything else". The question is though, is it just you that wants this feature? If so, you might be able to do something clever with greasemonkey. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:02, 14 April 2006 (BST)
* Ah. In that case, a greasemonkey script would be fine. I imagine it would require a little list of all the inventory item names and then a size value assigned to each. Then parse through the list and do simple addition and display the result. I might try my hand at it, but I don't promise anything. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 20:13, 14 April 2006 (BST)
**"is it just you that wants this feature?" Hmm, I assumed everyone would want this feature. Perhaps "your inventory is getting full" and "your inventory is full" would be sufficient warning, but inventory size info seems valuable. Also, the Trader won't give me a rifle for my bananas (you can't carry more) even though I'm giving away much more than I'm getting -- the trading mechanism appears to check for overload based on carrying both the given and received items. Perhaps a feature... but he's the guy who owns an entire hut, you'd think he'd be willing to carry both during the transaction rather than requiring me to shoulder the burden. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 09:10, 29 April 2006 (BST)
***<Bump.> Also, why not "(x/y)" appended to the inventory header? If the game code can figure out whether or not the inventory is full, it seems that the player could be able to figure out the same info. Even a simple load indication "(x)" would work fine, if the worry is that total inventory capacity 70-74 depends on quirky variable info rather than being static based on class. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:36, 15 May 2006 (BST) Besides which, seems like most everyone has an inventory limit of 71 now. (2 for blowpipes or rifles, 0 for gold coins.) --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:31, 20 May 2006 (BST)
*See the last list item at [[The_Shartak_Wiki:Community_Portal#Greasemonkey_scripts]]. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 07:51, 28 May 2006 (BST)
* Still needed/wanted or is the greasemonkey script sufficient? Would this change if, for example, backpacks or some other means of carrying extra items was implemented? Inventory size: 23/90 --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:46, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
** It would be nice to have an official inventory counter mechanic as I believe the script is based on a handful of assumptions (inventory size for all classes is 71, gold coins are weightless, ranged weapons have weight of 2 units) and will require testing and updating whenever a new item is added. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 19:01, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
* Ok, this has been added...
<nowiki>36 / 70</nowiki>
but the invsize style is set to display:none by default - override it to get it to display alongside the inventory header. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 21:34, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
----

===In-game Rankings===

I was noticing recently that one of my characters seemed to have killed a lot of parrots lately. I realizing that such information is tracked on the game stats page, but not necessarily everyone looks at it, and I thought it might be fun to have something in-game to acknowledge the player who has killed the most creatures of each type. Maybe a line is added to the player's description page, or the color of their name is different, or a mysterious "crown of the fallen parrots" appears in their inventory--no real impact, just bragging rights. It should be easy enough to implement, and might add a little intrigue.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 01:03, 16 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* See the player titles suggestion further up! --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:46, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
----

=== Wiki: table CSS ===

It would be nice if there were a class set up in the wiki's CSS file so that we could make attractive tables (see my ugly, hackish one on [[Tips and tricks]]). I tried to edit [[WikiMedia:Common.css]] but it's edit-locked. --[[User:Vtbassmatt|VTBassMatt]] 16:14, 23 March 2006 (GMT)
* I don't know that WikiMedia:Common.css is the right thing to edit - That link takes me off to an external site! --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 18:09, 23 March 2006 (GMT)
** What the heck! Ha, sorry. Now I can't find the page on either this wiki or the WikiMedia page. Weird. Well anyhow, it would be nice to have a useful table class. Thanks, Simon.
*** What kind of table class? Do you mean something to give a particular title bar, and row colours? Similar to the one on the front page. Got an example of what you'd put in the css file? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:58, 3 April 2006 (BST)
**** Colors aren't too important, I was more concerned with borders. Something simple like:
table.bordered, table.bordered td {
border: 1px solid black;

----

=== Pets ===

''Discussion of Pets has been moved to the existing [[Suggestions:Game mechanics#Pet System|Pet System]] suggestion.''
----

===ruins===
the ruins in the game are mostly for show, and that can be aggravating at times, as i would love to "explore" ruins more if there was something there. i am suggesting several things such as:
*unique, ruin only monsters
*special items found only in ruins
*if quests are implemented, a quest location

this is a very vague suggestion, but i feel that alot of the ruins on the map are just too bland. i camped out at ruins with my character "Richard Rose" and i stayed there for a week (in real time) because there was nothing better to do. and nothing and i mean NOTHING passed by, no game, no fruit trees, no players. it was completely desolate, and i am just suggesting several "interesting" components for ruins.

'''Comments:'''
*I have to agree that last I checked, the Ruins seemed like a total bust. Fifty searches yielded worse than the typical Jungle average. No events triggered, no creatures, no spirits, no variable flavor descriptions.
:* "As the wind blows through the ruined arch, you hear the spirit voices of the ancestors" (gain 1 XP).
:* "You find a bundle of parrot feathers tied to a leather strap. The spirit magic of this amulet has long since faded away." (junk item that could be implemented with magic/spirits later).
:* "Ghosts of the ancient dead chill your soul" (lose 2 HP, gain 2 XP).
:* "Sliding the heavy iron lid to one side, you discover [[The Conch|The Conch(tm)]]!"
:...And so on. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:56, 15 May 2006 (BST)
----

===Wind===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game Element Addition|
suggest_scope=Everyone|
suggest_description=
Add the concept of wind to the game. Could be either constant (always from the west) or random over time, possibly even dependant on the side of the island you're on. For now, including a changing wind speed (10mph to 30mph) may be overly complex. Wind can affect spirit movement, pigeon delivery times, fire movement, etc.|
suggest_time=16:54, 14 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Frisco|Frisco]]|
suggest_comments=

* Working this out technically might be a bit much, but I would like to see similar environmental variables on the island. It would increase the variety in the game and provide a creative amount of unpredictability while not being outlandish. Perhaps there can be a similar effect for the water current and tide as well. I can't wait until there are hurricane-strength winds that whip around everyone unless they're safe inside the mountain tunnels. Mwahaha. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 20:08, 14 April 2006 (BST)
:* A tornado/hurricane would be possible, scattering players and npcs that it runs over into adjacent squares. It would have to move every 30-60 minutes and theoretically could move players halfway across the island if it happened to throw them into the same square that it then moved into next. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 16:20, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Animal Levelling===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=balance change|
suggest_scope=NPC Animals|
suggest_description=Each time an animal kills a PC, the animal should have its stats increase: increased HP (possibly also reset to max), more damaging attacks, better chance of hitting, faster movements, possibly a more aggresive nature? There probably aren't that many animals out there that have actually killed more than one or two humans before being killed themselves, but this would increase that chance, leading to the natural formation of the mythical beasts that have been mentioned in other suggestions. And if it doesn't happen naturally, i'm sure it wouldn't be too long before animal cultists start sacrificing themselves to animals in order to create their gods.

Characters with the animal affinity skill should be able to identify stronger creatures:
:"Also here is a man-eating tiger"
:"Also here is an extremely large man-eating alligator"
:"Also here is an extremely large man-eating elephant that is barreling towards you"
:"Also here is an extremely large man-eating parrot that is barreling towards you with claws the size of cutlasses"
|
suggest_time=20:26, 13 May 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Frisco|Frisco]]|
suggest_comments=

... That's a mite scary. I don't know how this would affect server load, but that would be my only complaint here.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:06, 14 May 2006 (BST)
* Sounds neat. Will there be a leveling cap? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:45, 15 May 2006 (BST)
** Probably should be a cap, though a rather high one. Time limitations would prevent animals from growing too powerful before someone takes them out, but a dedicated group of cultists could go crazy creating an invicible creature. Or perhaps once an animal reaches a certain level, it gets named (a monkey might be "King Kong" at high enough stats), and this one creature per animal type can continue advancing while all others are capped at that level (can't have more than one King Kong running around). —unsigned by [[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 02:38, May 15, 2006 (BST)
* Awesome. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44, Cultist of the Man-Eating Parrot]] 22:57, 15 May 2006 (BST)
* So let me get this straight - if an animal kills a PC, they gain hp, and accuracy of their attack, and possibly damage as well. say hp + 2, accuracy + 10%, damage + 1, up to a certain level (accuracy can only go up to 100% of course). Easy enough so far. If they get killed, they reset to the normal hp/accuracy/damage and start afresh as a normal level animal? I must say, I quite like this idea. If this is correct, then there's no server load issue. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 09:33, 28 May 2006 (BST)
** This sounds very good. I recommend that you let each animal reach 100% accuracy and cap damage at ''base damage + 5'' (a 9x100% elephant would be plenty lethal enough, I think). PC deaths to animals are probably rare enough that you could be more generous with HP bonuses: increase an animal's current HP and max HP by ''base health / 3 + 1'' for each of its kills. You could cap max HP (after five increases?), but I wouldn't. An animal should be restored to base health if its HP bonus wouldn't get it there (so an elephant, with a 20+1 HP bonus, would go from 32 HP to 60 and have 81 max HP, or go from 42 to 63 and still have 81 max HP). In theory, after five kills you could see an elephant with 165 HP that dealt 9 damage at 100% accuracy, but only if it got those kills without being harmed at all. Such a beast would be incredibly intimidating, but also incredibly rare. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 22:25, 28 May 2006 (BST)
:::What about new players? They go into the forest for the first time, log out, log in only to discover that "an extremely large man-eating parrot that is barreling towards you with claws the size of cutlasses" has killed them in two moves. Nobody naturally gets stronger by dying and this would only prevent low level characters from leveling up.--[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:13, 29 May 2006 (BST)
::::The idea is that there wouldn't be that many of these, because they'd be rather difficult to make even a ''little'' better, anyways.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 15:49, 29 May 2006 (BST)
::::: Simon has it right. hp + 5 (or +10%), accuracy + 10%, damage + 1, with only a few upgrades possible. Or, for example, promote to level 1 after 1 kill, level 2 after 2 more kills (3 total), level 3 after 3 (6) kills, and so on. If a max-upgraded parrot is only as strong as a level 0 tiger, this is nowhere near "kill-in-two-moves" monstrosity. This would add excitement and flavor to the game without any downside. I doubt any animal in Shartak has more than two kills. As the 300-hp Squid shows, any attention-getting animal will get torn to bits by PCs. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 23:14, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
* Implemented, but with slightly less elaborate titles (and the maths isn't quite the same either)! --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:48, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

}}

===UDTool type Firefox plugin===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Plugin|
suggest_scope=All players with Firefox|
suggest_description=I don't have any coding skills, but I'm sure many of you out there do. Currently there is no way to add people to a contact list, thus making it difficult to recoginse people. Could someone please develop a UDTool style plugin (like that seen in Urban Dead) that allows you to add player's names and assign them to groups with user defined colours? Basically just port the UDTool over to Shartak users, so when you're in a hut or square with others, you can see people you've encoutnered with a llittle bit of text to pop up at your cursor telling you why they're important to you (like the 'notes' feature in the UDTool).|
suggest_time=08:18, 27 May 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Rip Purr|Rip Purr]]|
suggest_comments=

* This has partially been implemented in-game, we now have contact lists that identify people from the opposing side as well. That's not to say that an UDTool type plugin isn't required though. Perhaps this isn't the best place to put this suggestion though, but somewhere for the real greasemonkey wizards to see it? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 20:50, 12 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Hide Skills===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Technical|
suggest_scope=Everyone|
suggest_description=I think it would be useful to be able to have a "Hide Skills" button which hides what skills you possess from those viewing your profile, I know many people wouldn't care but it would be useful for players whose skills don't fit with the way they roleplay. Besides who can tell how good a shot someone is simply by looking at them?|
suggest_time=08:18, 31 May 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Kripcat|Kripcat]]|
suggest_comments=

* ''Comment removed'' --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 20:06, 6 June 2006 (BST)
** Well, hiding (as a skill) seems different from "hiding your list of skills"... although perhaps that would be a way to boost characters with Sixth Sense, who know how good a shot you are simply by looking at you. I like the effects of having fully revealed skills. Realistically, your home town should hardly be public knowledge, nor the date of your last demise, nor your killer, and so on. Perhaps a "Disguise" skill would give you access to a button that shields your character info (such as level) while you sleep (at a small AP cost). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 21:51, 1 June 2006 (BST)
*** It makes sense. No more can I look at the victim's skills t osee how well they'll be able to track me if Ifail to kill them. ;) --[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 23:50, 1 June 2006 (BST)
***That is another bonus to be sure, might add a little ''tang'' to your game. [[User:Kripcat|Kripcat]] 07:28, 6 June 2006 (BST)
***The problem with doing anything "while you sleep" is that it's hard to know whether you're actually not playing, or just taking a very long time between clicks. Idleness is triggered after 7 days of not doing anything, although I'm not sure if simply loading the main game page is considered to be doing something, I'd have to check. I suppose "asleep" is either something you activate on your last go and the next time you reload the page, you're awake again, or else when you haven't done anything for an arbitrary length of time (say 3 hours). --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:18, 9 June 2006 (BST)
****There's no issue with ''player-activated'' sleep conditions. Clicking a button ("Disguise Self 4AP" or however many AP you want it to cost) activates the Disguise. Player skills are then concealed. They remain Disguised forever until they click anything, at which point they leave the state. The state never activates automatically (in 3 hours or 7 days), because you have to pay to activate it. There are no mechanical complexities. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 23:03, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Jungle Regrowth===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type= Alteration|
suggest_scope= The regrowth of the Jungle Terrain type|
suggest_description= As I understand the growth of the Jungle terrain is currently random. At any time a square of jungle can grow anywhere on the map, except for Water and Beach terrain, and when it happens to grow on a square which already contains Jungle it increases the density of that jungle by one. Now to me, this appears to conflict with one of the driving emotions of Shartak, the battle between civilisation and 'the wilds'. At the moment a player can spend a week's AP expanding the settlement's borders only to find that jungle has randomly cropped up in the middle of the settlement. This is highly demoralising and also leads to strange patches of jungle in the middle of no where. I prepose that new Jungle Terrain is formed in the following manner:

*Whenever a square of Jungle with a density above D2 or above is touching a square of D0 terrain it has a 1% chance every hour of "seeding" each D0 square with Jungle. By seeding I mean, the D0 square would become Jungle terrain with a density half that of the square that seeded it.

*Each square of Jungle (with the exception of D10) has a 7.5% chance of "growing" into the density level 1 above its current.

This would mean that roads would be harder to maintain, as they would have to be recut every 4 days or so, but settlements would be easier to maintain and expand as a dedicated weeder or two could slowly push back the borders of the settlement. I know nothing of coding so it may be a coding nightmare and the numbers may need to be tweaked, but I feel that this makes the Jungle more the second enemy that it is in all those Jungle Warfare fiction novels rather than an annoying and unrealistic random occurrence.

'''Edit''': On second thought it may just be easier to create a "coding requirment" that new Jungle Terrain appear within 3 squares of an already positioned Jungle Square. [[User:Kripcat|Kripcat]] 08:24, 6 June 2006 (BST) |
suggest_time=08:18, 6 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Kripcat|Kripcat]]|
suggest_comments=

If I understand your comment correctly, you're bothered by the light green d1 Jungles that pop up inside settlements. It is possible that the game already uses a non-random algorithm to grow jungle; in any case, jungle does not appear to grow instantly two or more levels, so the cleanup is ongoing but minor. The crux of your suggestion could be achieved by modifying the current grow system so that d1 did not grow in a fully d0 zone. For example, the game checks a d0-d1 to make sure that there is adjacent d1+ jungle; if not, the game heads out in a random direction (or towards the center of shartak) to the last available d0 square before jungle, and grows that location d0-d1 instead. This would result in the same overall growth speed, but d0-d1 changes would occur on the boundaries rather than the interior of a paved area. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:55, 8 June 2006 (BST)
*Yes that probably work better with less coding work, but do you have an opinion on such a change? [[User:Kripcat|Kripcat]] 08:36, 8 June 2006 (BST)
* There is a simple algorithm for determining growth of jungle, but it's not as clever as this, it's all to do with growth rate of the square and how often people chop it back. There is also a limit of about 10% of the island that can grow in any given day but it's not hitting the limit at the moment. Having to look at the surrounding squares would also involve having to write the growth as a script rather than a couple of lines of SQL so I'm not overly keen on this even though it would make a bit of sense. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 18:32, 8 June 2006 (BST)
*If it requires a large amount of coding work I wouldn't worry about it, theres a lot of more imporant suggestions than this one about, I just thought it may have been something you overlooked when creating the regrowth system and could perhaps be easily fixed. [[User:Kripcat|Kripcat]] 09:49, 9 June 2006 (BST)


}}

===Animal Meat===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type= Alteration|
suggest_scope= get meat from dead animals|
suggest_description= well it's simple you kill and animal and you can get it's meat from the corpse!or.... and also eventually the animal on the floor will run out of meat and as it says"there is a corpse of a large stag" that will not be there when it runs out of meat....[meat restores 2 HP].|
suggest_time=04:52, 8 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Riddick|Riddick]]|
suggest_comments=

* There is an existing [[Suggestions:Items#Meat|meat suggestion]]. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 06:32, 8 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Breakable weapons===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Weapon alteration|
suggest_scope=All weapons|
suggest_description=I'd like to propose that all weapons break occassionally. At the moment, cutlasses and machetes do, but I don't think any other weapons do. This means that there is a surplus of rifles and blowpipes on the island, as they continue to be produced, but are never destroyed. It makes perfect sense for a rifle or blowpipe to break (poor handling or poor workmanship?). Additionally, once someone acquires a heavy sword, it is theirs permanently (to my knowledge). If it was breakable, it would be both more realistic and less unbalancing. That being said, the very name "heavy sword" implies that it is strongly built, so perhaps it should have a significantly lower chance of breaking than a machete or cutlass.|
suggest_time=10:25, 19 July 2006|
suggest_author=[[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]]|
suggest_comments=

* Also take a look at Suggestions:Items, where there is a Remove Uber Sword of Doom (aka Heavy Sword) discussion. If I recall correctly, both Simon and Jones Dye have implied that heavy swords do break. I'm not sure why the name "heavy sword" suggests anything other than the sword weighing a lot. Whether it breaks a little or a lot, the heavy sword is still by far the best item in the game, and would still be superior even if it did 1 less damage and broke with normal frequency. Rifles and blowpipes are common - it would be fine for them to have a slight breakage chance. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 16:14, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
**To me, heavy implies it's either thick or otherwise stronger. However, that's just my personal take on it, and it's not really a major point. My main suggestion is that any weapon should have a chance of breaking. Otherwise, there will be a surplus. Incidentally, I saw the "Uber Sword of Doom" entry, but given that this covers all weapons, I thought it best to create a separate topic. Thank you for your input, by the way. - [[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]]
* I agree weapons should break occasionally, but I especially would like to see machetes and knives dull with use more often (I dont know if I have ever personally had this happen [though I've heard it does happen], and I've been playing for nearly 7 months), thereby changing your machete into a blunt machete (there arent blunt knives/blunt cutlasses in the game, as far as i know. maybe there should be). Rifles should occasionally explode, too, destroying the weapon and giving you 10 damage or something. Those old-fashioned rifles would occassionally do that. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:47, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Secret Shop===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=new addition|
suggest_scope= |
suggest_description= I like to see the introduction of secret shops (traders) to Shartak which allow players to purchase hard to find items (heavy sword or charms) and/or special/unique (non-searchable) items at hyper-inflated prices say between (100 to 1000 gold coins). Accesses to such shops are either treacherous (crossing an area full of giant squids in deep water) or complex (requiring the completion of puzzles/quests) or time specific (opening for one day a year) or possibly a combination of all three. This would thus open up gameplay potential for high level players who have maxed out or allow players to get certain items without having to leave it up to chance. Potentially I see such shops being placed in ruins, islands or caves to promote exploration.|
suggest_time=09:31, 22 July 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:A for anarchy|A for anarchy]]|
suggest_comments=



}}
===Merchants===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=New Addition|
suggest_scope=All settlements|
suggest_description=At the moment, gold coins are fairly easy to get, but they aren't in much demand. You can use them to trade, but they aren't removed from circulation. Since new gold coins are constantly added, this means the value will steadily decline as scarcity decreases.

I suggest splitting the trading and merchant functions. The trader will continue to trade, but he will cease making his high speed runs to the ammo hut to replenish his stock. He will work solely with what people trade with him. However, there would also be a merchant. He would accept only gold coins as payment, but would have unlimited stocks. To reduce the chance for abuse, he would charge grossly inflated prices. For example, a med kit runs about 2 gold coins under ordinary circumstances. The merchant would charge 8 to 10. He would act as a guaranteed source of supply, but you would pay dearly for the convenience. Spending 200 gold coins would only get 20-25 med kits at this price. Thus, newcomers without much money would not be particularly disadvantaged, since they could just search for what they need, but established players would be able to stock up on items they actually need. Additionally, the merchant would only sell items that can be found in that settlement. GPS could not be bought at the shipwreck, and rum could not be purchased in native villages. Other possible alterations are linking the price to demand or adjusting price to match the item's find rate (e.g. FAK's are harder to find at the shipwreck, so the price will be higher).

The primary purpose of this policy is to serve as a "gold sink". Gold coins spent at the merchant are removed from circulation, reducing the inflation inherent in Shartak's current economic model. That being said, this is a very rough guess, and I'm sure there are flaws I've missed. Please offer any input you may have.|
suggest_time=16:01, 18 August 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]]|
suggest_comments=

Very good suggestion. Also, some major new expensive items that would only be able to be bought from the all-purpose merchant (not found by searching). I was thinking some time ago about being able to buy a cannon for 500 gold coins, which would serve as a means to actually hold a position and provide heavy defensive ability, it would fire on any enemy that comes within a square of it, and if it hits would inflict 50 damage. The specifics could be worked out. Another idea for merchants in each outsider town is to offer tickets aboard ships to the other towns, e.g. a Durham to York ticket would cost 100 gold or something, and the trip would take 50 AP, a significant reduction in AP to get from town to town, but at a steep cost. This would give people major benefits for getting lots of gold, besides the ability to trade for everyday itmes like FAKs. I'm sure people could think of even more things like this. This could really add a lot to the game. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:37, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

}}

Suggestions:Miscellaneous

2006-08-27T00:47:24Z

Arminius: /* Breakable weapons */

{{Suggestions header|page_type=Miscellaneous}}

== Miscellaneous ==

=== Tunnels ===
Tunnels underneath the island lead to interesting places.

''Comments''
:How do you know they don't exist? :) [[User:Dr._J|Dr. J]]
::Tunnels underneath the island '''lead to interesting places.''' --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:43, 8 June 2006 (BST)
----

=== Treasure to capture ===
"Capture the flag" type objective, in this case the flags are treasure from each village. Bonus points in the form of XP or gold coins to be awarded to the holder of the treasure at certain intervals.

''Comments''
:I would like to modify this slightly Mystery Suggester. Please see the '''[[Suggestions:Game_mechanics#Unique_Item_Hunt|Unique Item Hunt]]''' suggestion. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
----

=== Player VS Player Interaction ===
I would propoese a to hit % penalty for attacking members of same Home location. I believe this will promote exploration and perhaps offer a measure of protection of newly "birthed" population. As a recent victim of death by the hands of a warrior from my own villiage this has a bit of appeal to me ;). - [[User:Nankilstlas|Nan]]

''Comments''
:Instead of a hit % penalty, what about reducing or eliminating XP earned for such attacks? It would be similar to the ZvZ penalty used in UrbanDead, and its easier to rationalize not getting as much experience fighting one of your own than to rationalize that its harder to hit your own people for some reason. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 19:52, 27 February 2006 (GMT)

:The to hit penalty and the lack of XP should be combined to discourage intravillage conflicts but only on nonclan members(so clans from the same village can fight with each other to simulate a power struggle for leadership), extend this to shamans as well, as its not often the village shaman gets killed by an out-of-towner. --[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 00:27, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

:I don't like this idea--especially with the inclusion of pirates in the game. It makes sense for pirates to trun on each other now and then, or to turn to pillaging from one of the outsider towns. All of a sudden, for our good RPing we get a reduced chance to hit and no XP?--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:30, 29 March 2006 (BST)

:I have suggested a full non player vs player implementation at [[Suggestions:Game_mechanics#PvP_Protection]]. --[[User:Iamtas|Iamtas]] 10:10, 13 April 2006 (BST)

:Players already get less XP for attacking someone from their own camp, and no kill bonus (if I remember correctly). You would still gain a bit of experience from fighting with your own, just not quite as much as when it's a life or death situation against someone hostile. Do we really need this suggestion to be implemented? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:28, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
----

=== Spirit Movement ===

A couple thoughts on this topic.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 02:29, 6 March 2006 (GMT)

*My character has the "trekking" skill, but as a spirit, actually moves '''slower''' (1 AP per square) than when he's alive! Spirits should move '''at least''' as fast as someone skilled at traversing terrain.
::Perhaps spirits have less impetus than live characters --[[User:Dr. J|Dr. J]] 18:55, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

*Spirits move effortlessly through the thickest jungle, water, swamp--as it should be. Why should mountains be an impediment?
:Perhaps there's some kind of mineral in the mountain that prevents the spirit from passing through it.. could be mined later on to spirit-proof huts or something (clutching at straws here, can you tell) ?
:They also can't move through the deepest water, but that is the boundary of the game I'm guessing.

So what's the suggestion here? Perhaps this belongs in the Talk page instead? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 17:51, 27 May 2006 (BST)

:Is the suggestion that spirits can move for 0.5AP instead of 1AP regardless of terrain? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:29, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

::Fast-moving spirits don't make sense to me. Zipping across Shartak by dying doesn't seem right (unless you're contacting the home shaman). I prefer the idea of a spirit that is somewhat "bound" to their site of death. A high fixed movement cost per square (1AP or 2AP) creates this binding effect. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 05:19, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:The main problem with this suggestion is that it lets spirits travel faster than everyone but explorers (since heavy jungle sometimes gets in a trekker's way), meaning that if you're dead and have somewhere to be, it's better to float across the island than walk across it. This means fewer visible people in the jungle and fewer player interactions overall. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 05:01, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

----

===Player Titles===

To supplement the explored/killed statistics, give players rank titles based on percentiles. For example, if Jack is in the bottom 10% of explorers and the 30th percentile of hunters, his profile would show him as "Greenhorn Jack the Good Shot", if Sheila is in the top 10% killers and middle 50 explorer, she would be "The Adventurous Sheila, Grandmaster Hunter", and [[User:Murk|Murk]] would simply be "Demigod Murk". The titles would be determined once a day like the stats, only apply to active players, and only take active players into consideration when determining percentile. This will help statistics be more relevant to all players, as once time goes on and new players start, the top 100 may be quite a distant goal. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 04:15, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
:I like it. It adds flavor to the game. I also agree that this system should be based on dynamic percentiles to allow for new players to compete with some of the more established ranking players. A static listing would be incredibly difficult for newcomers to break into. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:12, 11 March 2006 (GMT)

*This could be done in a similar manner to the rogue elephants and ferocious tigers that we have now. Several questions need to be answered first.
:* A title for every player or just those in the weekly top A% of whatever chart?
:* Just to be displayed in the profile or in the location description as well e.g. Here you can see [http://www.shartak.com/profile.cgi?id=1850 Fatninja], the hunter, and [http://www.shartak.com/profile.cgi?id=6 Leaky Bocks].
:* What kind of statistics would need to be kept for this to work?
::* areas explored for the explorer titles - not a problem, we have the top 20 explorers this week already, it can be expanded to include however many players are required to make it work since it's just a case of manipulating the raw data differently.
::* animal kills for the hunter titles? specific types of animals killed e.g "Bob the parrot killer", "Fred the big game hunter", "Bert the murderer" (pkills) rather than just all animals killed?
::* something for some other kind of title, trading perhaps? "Tycho the master salesperson" for example ;)
:* Of the above, the explorer titles are the easiest to do. Kills will need some adjusting because there are no database timestamps on kills at the moment, just raw quantities as seen on the [http://www.shartak.com/statkills.html kill statistics] page..
:--[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:43, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

:: A title for every character, with the top A% appearing in the location description and profile pages, and everyone else only appearing in the profile page - this lets everyone know where they stand and keeps the location page less cluttered. For statistics, some records for healers and wailers should be kept in addition to trading, like HP healed (modified by recipient's travelling/trading/killing stats), number of times screamed/shrieked/wailed (balanced for severity of attack), number of trades (modified by number of towns trades were done in and rarity of item). Kills in particular to the animal that has been killed would be more distinctive and flavourful - should it also be in particular to the town (or clan??) for pkills, making "the Butcher of York" an official title?

:: Weekly tabulating of titles will make them very transient. Perhaps once a title is acquired it is kept so long as you're halfway to that title each successive week (not affecting others gaining the same title if they're in the appropriate rankings)? --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 15:42, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

::I thought a little bit about this after I made that early comment. It becomes fairly hard for a newbie to compete with the existing stat leaders regardless if the awards were static or scaling. I think the best way to handle this is a two-tiered approach, one that rewards players for accomplishing static minor goals and one that rewards players for being the highest rank. The latter is already accomplished through the statistics, but the former has not been addressed. Most of what follows is inspired by a [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Talk:Suggestions&diff=prev&oldid=173904 draft suggestion] on the Urban Dead wiki and my experience with Nexus War. I see these award descriptions appearing only on the profile pages to cut down on clutter. Each degree of award is assigned at some arbitrary number. Perhaps 10, 100, 500 (with more titles developed as the game progresses). When a player achieves a target number, an award flag is raised. Every 24 hour period, the server will compute the rankings and append a prefix or suffix to the player's existing award.
::* Area explored - Wanderer, Traveller, Adventurer
:::Bonus prefixes for top-ranking explorers: Top 1% - Worldly, Top 5% - Experienced, Top 20% - (e.g., Worldly Adventurer)
::* Hasn't killed anyone - Pacifist
::* Killed animals - Herder, Hunter, Slayer
:::Bonus prefixes to state which type of animal the player has killed the most (e.g., Wild Boar Herder, Elephant Hunter, Special Slayer)
::* Killed opposing side - Killer, Fighter, Conqueror
::* Killed same side - Turncoat, Backstabber, Traitor
:::Bonus prefixes for top-ranking killers: Top 1% - Bloodthirsty, Top 5% - Fierce, Top 20% - Brutal (e.g., Bloodthirsty Conqueror, Bloodthirsty Traitor, Bloodthirsty Wild Boar Slayer).

----

===Inventory Limit===

I think I would like to have an indication of how much of my inventory limit is being used up. :D --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:12, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
* The inventory is somewhat flexible in size (+/- 2) so wouldn't be completely foolproof if represented as "(x/y)" appended to the inventory header, I could do something like a small bit of text just below the header like "You can carry lots more" "You can carry more things" "You can't carry much more" "You might be able to carry a couple more things" "You can't carry anything else". The question is though, is it just you that wants this feature? If so, you might be able to do something clever with greasemonkey. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:02, 14 April 2006 (BST)
* Ah. In that case, a greasemonkey script would be fine. I imagine it would require a little list of all the inventory item names and then a size value assigned to each. Then parse through the list and do simple addition and display the result. I might try my hand at it, but I don't promise anything. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 20:13, 14 April 2006 (BST)
**"is it just you that wants this feature?" Hmm, I assumed everyone would want this feature. Perhaps "your inventory is getting full" and "your inventory is full" would be sufficient warning, but inventory size info seems valuable. Also, the Trader won't give me a rifle for my bananas (you can't carry more) even though I'm giving away much more than I'm getting -- the trading mechanism appears to check for overload based on carrying both the given and received items. Perhaps a feature... but he's the guy who owns an entire hut, you'd think he'd be willing to carry both during the transaction rather than requiring me to shoulder the burden. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 09:10, 29 April 2006 (BST)
***<Bump.> Also, why not "(x/y)" appended to the inventory header? If the game code can figure out whether or not the inventory is full, it seems that the player could be able to figure out the same info. Even a simple load indication "(x)" would work fine, if the worry is that total inventory capacity 70-74 depends on quirky variable info rather than being static based on class. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:36, 15 May 2006 (BST) Besides which, seems like most everyone has an inventory limit of 71 now. (2 for blowpipes or rifles, 0 for gold coins.) --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:31, 20 May 2006 (BST)
*See the last list item at [[The_Shartak_Wiki:Community_Portal#Greasemonkey_scripts]]. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 07:51, 28 May 2006 (BST)
* Still needed/wanted or is the greasemonkey script sufficient? Would this change if, for example, backpacks or some other means of carrying extra items was implemented? Inventory size: 23/90 --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:46, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
** It would be nice to have an official inventory counter mechanic as I believe the script is based on a handful of assumptions (inventory size for all classes is 71, gold coins are weightless, ranged weapons have weight of 2 units) and will require testing and updating whenever a new item is added. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 19:01, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
* Ok, this has been added...
<nowiki>36 / 70</nowiki>
but the invsize style is set to display:none by default - override it to get it to display alongside the inventory header. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 21:34, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
----

===In-game Rankings===

I was noticing recently that one of my characters seemed to have killed a lot of parrots lately. I realizing that such information is tracked on the game stats page, but not necessarily everyone looks at it, and I thought it might be fun to have something in-game to acknowledge the player who has killed the most creatures of each type. Maybe a line is added to the player's description page, or the color of their name is different, or a mysterious "crown of the fallen parrots" appears in their inventory--no real impact, just bragging rights. It should be easy enough to implement, and might add a little intrigue.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 01:03, 16 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* See the player titles suggestion further up! --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:46, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
----

=== Wiki: table CSS ===

It would be nice if there were a class set up in the wiki's CSS file so that we could make attractive tables (see my ugly, hackish one on [[Tips and tricks]]). I tried to edit [[WikiMedia:Common.css]] but it's edit-locked. --[[User:Vtbassmatt|VTBassMatt]] 16:14, 23 March 2006 (GMT)
* I don't know that WikiMedia:Common.css is the right thing to edit - That link takes me off to an external site! --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 18:09, 23 March 2006 (GMT)
** What the heck! Ha, sorry. Now I can't find the page on either this wiki or the WikiMedia page. Weird. Well anyhow, it would be nice to have a useful table class. Thanks, Simon.
*** What kind of table class? Do you mean something to give a particular title bar, and row colours? Similar to the one on the front page. Got an example of what you'd put in the css file? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:58, 3 April 2006 (BST)
**** Colors aren't too important, I was more concerned with borders. Something simple like:
table.bordered, table.bordered td {
border: 1px solid black;

----

=== Pets ===

''Discussion of Pets has been moved to the existing [[Suggestions:Game mechanics#Pet System|Pet System]] suggestion.''
----

===ruins===
the ruins in the game are mostly for show, and that can be aggravating at times, as i would love to "explore" ruins more if there was something there. i am suggesting several things such as:
*unique, ruin only monsters
*special items found only in ruins
*if quests are implemented, a quest location

this is a very vague suggestion, but i feel that alot of the ruins on the map are just too bland. i camped out at ruins with my character "Richard Rose" and i stayed there for a week (in real time) because there was nothing better to do. and nothing and i mean NOTHING passed by, no game, no fruit trees, no players. it was completely desolate, and i am just suggesting several "interesting" components for ruins.

'''Comments:'''
*I have to agree that last I checked, the Ruins seemed like a total bust. Fifty searches yielded worse than the typical Jungle average. No events triggered, no creatures, no spirits, no variable flavor descriptions.
:* "As the wind blows through the ruined arch, you hear the spirit voices of the ancestors" (gain 1 XP).
:* "You find a bundle of parrot feathers tied to a leather strap. The spirit magic of this amulet has long since faded away." (junk item that could be implemented with magic/spirits later).
:* "Ghosts of the ancient dead chill your soul" (lose 2 HP, gain 2 XP).
:* "Sliding the heavy iron lid to one side, you discover [[The Conch|The Conch(tm)]]!"
:...And so on. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:56, 15 May 2006 (BST)
----

===Wind===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game Element Addition|
suggest_scope=Everyone|
suggest_description=
Add the concept of wind to the game. Could be either constant (always from the west) or random over time, possibly even dependant on the side of the island you're on. For now, including a changing wind speed (10mph to 30mph) may be overly complex. Wind can affect spirit movement, pigeon delivery times, fire movement, etc.|
suggest_time=16:54, 14 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Frisco|Frisco]]|
suggest_comments=

* Working this out technically might be a bit much, but I would like to see similar environmental variables on the island. It would increase the variety in the game and provide a creative amount of unpredictability while not being outlandish. Perhaps there can be a similar effect for the water current and tide as well. I can't wait until there are hurricane-strength winds that whip around everyone unless they're safe inside the mountain tunnels. Mwahaha. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 20:08, 14 April 2006 (BST)
:* A tornado/hurricane would be possible, scattering players and npcs that it runs over into adjacent squares. It would have to move every 30-60 minutes and theoretically could move players halfway across the island if it happened to throw them into the same square that it then moved into next. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 16:20, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Animal Levelling===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=balance change|
suggest_scope=NPC Animals|
suggest_description=Each time an animal kills a PC, the animal should have its stats increase: increased HP (possibly also reset to max), more damaging attacks, better chance of hitting, faster movements, possibly a more aggresive nature? There probably aren't that many animals out there that have actually killed more than one or two humans before being killed themselves, but this would increase that chance, leading to the natural formation of the mythical beasts that have been mentioned in other suggestions. And if it doesn't happen naturally, i'm sure it wouldn't be too long before animal cultists start sacrificing themselves to animals in order to create their gods.

Characters with the animal affinity skill should be able to identify stronger creatures:
:"Also here is a man-eating tiger"
:"Also here is an extremely large man-eating alligator"
:"Also here is an extremely large man-eating elephant that is barreling towards you"
:"Also here is an extremely large man-eating parrot that is barreling towards you with claws the size of cutlasses"
|
suggest_time=20:26, 13 May 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Frisco|Frisco]]|
suggest_comments=

... That's a mite scary. I don't know how this would affect server load, but that would be my only complaint here.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:06, 14 May 2006 (BST)
* Sounds neat. Will there be a leveling cap? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:45, 15 May 2006 (BST)
** Probably should be a cap, though a rather high one. Time limitations would prevent animals from growing too powerful before someone takes them out, but a dedicated group of cultists could go crazy creating an invicible creature. Or perhaps once an animal reaches a certain level, it gets named (a monkey might be "King Kong" at high enough stats), and this one creature per animal type can continue advancing while all others are capped at that level (can't have more than one King Kong running around). —unsigned by [[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 02:38, May 15, 2006 (BST)
* Awesome. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44, Cultist of the Man-Eating Parrot]] 22:57, 15 May 2006 (BST)
* So let me get this straight - if an animal kills a PC, they gain hp, and accuracy of their attack, and possibly damage as well. say hp + 2, accuracy + 10%, damage + 1, up to a certain level (accuracy can only go up to 100% of course). Easy enough so far. If they get killed, they reset to the normal hp/accuracy/damage and start afresh as a normal level animal? I must say, I quite like this idea. If this is correct, then there's no server load issue. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 09:33, 28 May 2006 (BST)
** This sounds very good. I recommend that you let each animal reach 100% accuracy and cap damage at ''base damage + 5'' (a 9x100% elephant would be plenty lethal enough, I think). PC deaths to animals are probably rare enough that you could be more generous with HP bonuses: increase an animal's current HP and max HP by ''base health / 3 + 1'' for each of its kills. You could cap max HP (after five increases?), but I wouldn't. An animal should be restored to base health if its HP bonus wouldn't get it there (so an elephant, with a 20+1 HP bonus, would go from 32 HP to 60 and have 81 max HP, or go from 42 to 63 and still have 81 max HP). In theory, after five kills you could see an elephant with 165 HP that dealt 9 damage at 100% accuracy, but only if it got those kills without being harmed at all. Such a beast would be incredibly intimidating, but also incredibly rare. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 22:25, 28 May 2006 (BST)
:::What about new players? They go into the forest for the first time, log out, log in only to discover that "an extremely large man-eating parrot that is barreling towards you with claws the size of cutlasses" has killed them in two moves. Nobody naturally gets stronger by dying and this would only prevent low level characters from leveling up.--[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:13, 29 May 2006 (BST)
::::The idea is that there wouldn't be that many of these, because they'd be rather difficult to make even a ''little'' better, anyways.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 15:49, 29 May 2006 (BST)
::::: Simon has it right. hp + 5 (or +10%), accuracy + 10%, damage + 1, with only a few upgrades possible. Or, for example, promote to level 1 after 1 kill, level 2 after 2 more kills (3 total), level 3 after 3 (6) kills, and so on. If a max-upgraded parrot is only as strong as a level 0 tiger, this is nowhere near "kill-in-two-moves" monstrosity. This would add excitement and flavor to the game without any downside. I doubt any animal in Shartak has more than two kills. As the 300-hp Squid shows, any attention-getting animal will get torn to bits by PCs. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 23:14, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
* Implemented, but with slightly less elaborate titles (and the maths isn't quite the same either)! --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:48, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

}}

===UDTool type Firefox plugin===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Plugin|
suggest_scope=All players with Firefox|
suggest_description=I don't have any coding skills, but I'm sure many of you out there do. Currently there is no way to add people to a contact list, thus making it difficult to recoginse people. Could someone please develop a UDTool style plugin (like that seen in Urban Dead) that allows you to add player's names and assign them to groups with user defined colours? Basically just port the UDTool over to Shartak users, so when you're in a hut or square with others, you can see people you've encoutnered with a llittle bit of text to pop up at your cursor telling you why they're important to you (like the 'notes' feature in the UDTool).|
suggest_time=08:18, 27 May 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Rip Purr|Rip Purr]]|
suggest_comments=

* This has partially been implemented in-game, we now have contact lists that identify people from the opposing side as well. That's not to say that an UDTool type plugin isn't required though. Perhaps this isn't the best place to put this suggestion though, but somewhere for the real greasemonkey wizards to see it? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 20:50, 12 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Hide Skills===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Technical|
suggest_scope=Everyone|
suggest_description=I think it would be useful to be able to have a "Hide Skills" button which hides what skills you possess from those viewing your profile, I know many people wouldn't care but it would be useful for players whose skills don't fit with the way they roleplay. Besides who can tell how good a shot someone is simply by looking at them?|
suggest_time=08:18, 31 May 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Kripcat|Kripcat]]|
suggest_comments=

* ''Comment removed'' --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 20:06, 6 June 2006 (BST)
** Well, hiding (as a skill) seems different from "hiding your list of skills"... although perhaps that would be a way to boost characters with Sixth Sense, who know how good a shot you are simply by looking at you. I like the effects of having fully revealed skills. Realistically, your home town should hardly be public knowledge, nor the date of your last demise, nor your killer, and so on. Perhaps a "Disguise" skill would give you access to a button that shields your character info (such as level) while you sleep (at a small AP cost). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 21:51, 1 June 2006 (BST)
*** It makes sense. No more can I look at the victim's skills t osee how well they'll be able to track me if Ifail to kill them. ;) --[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 23:50, 1 June 2006 (BST)
***That is another bonus to be sure, might add a little ''tang'' to your game. [[User:Kripcat|Kripcat]] 07:28, 6 June 2006 (BST)
***The problem with doing anything "while you sleep" is that it's hard to know whether you're actually not playing, or just taking a very long time between clicks. Idleness is triggered after 7 days of not doing anything, although I'm not sure if simply loading the main game page is considered to be doing something, I'd have to check. I suppose "asleep" is either something you activate on your last go and the next time you reload the page, you're awake again, or else when you haven't done anything for an arbitrary length of time (say 3 hours). --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:18, 9 June 2006 (BST)
****There's no issue with ''player-activated'' sleep conditions. Clicking a button ("Disguise Self 4AP" or however many AP you want it to cost) activates the Disguise. Player skills are then concealed. They remain Disguised forever until they click anything, at which point they leave the state. The state never activates automatically (in 3 hours or 7 days), because you have to pay to activate it. There are no mechanical complexities. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 23:03, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Jungle Regrowth===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type= Alteration|
suggest_scope= The regrowth of the Jungle Terrain type|
suggest_description= As I understand the growth of the Jungle terrain is currently random. At any time a square of jungle can grow anywhere on the map, except for Water and Beach terrain, and when it happens to grow on a square which already contains Jungle it increases the density of that jungle by one. Now to me, this appears to conflict with one of the driving emotions of Shartak, the battle between civilisation and 'the wilds'. At the moment a player can spend a week's AP expanding the settlement's borders only to find that jungle has randomly cropped up in the middle of the settlement. This is highly demoralising and also leads to strange patches of jungle in the middle of no where. I prepose that new Jungle Terrain is formed in the following manner:

*Whenever a square of Jungle with a density above D2 or above is touching a square of D0 terrain it has a 1% chance every hour of "seeding" each D0 square with Jungle. By seeding I mean, the D0 square would become Jungle terrain with a density half that of the square that seeded it.

*Each square of Jungle (with the exception of D10) has a 7.5% chance of "growing" into the density level 1 above its current.

This would mean that roads would be harder to maintain, as they would have to be recut every 4 days or so, but settlements would be easier to maintain and expand as a dedicated weeder or two could slowly push back the borders of the settlement. I know nothing of coding so it may be a coding nightmare and the numbers may need to be tweaked, but I feel that this makes the Jungle more the second enemy that it is in all those Jungle Warfare fiction novels rather than an annoying and unrealistic random occurrence.

'''Edit''': On second thought it may just be easier to create a "coding requirment" that new Jungle Terrain appear within 3 squares of an already positioned Jungle Square. [[User:Kripcat|Kripcat]] 08:24, 6 June 2006 (BST) |
suggest_time=08:18, 6 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Kripcat|Kripcat]]|
suggest_comments=

If I understand your comment correctly, you're bothered by the light green d1 Jungles that pop up inside settlements. It is possible that the game already uses a non-random algorithm to grow jungle; in any case, jungle does not appear to grow instantly two or more levels, so the cleanup is ongoing but minor. The crux of your suggestion could be achieved by modifying the current grow system so that d1 did not grow in a fully d0 zone. For example, the game checks a d0-d1 to make sure that there is adjacent d1+ jungle; if not, the game heads out in a random direction (or towards the center of shartak) to the last available d0 square before jungle, and grows that location d0-d1 instead. This would result in the same overall growth speed, but d0-d1 changes would occur on the boundaries rather than the interior of a paved area. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:55, 8 June 2006 (BST)
*Yes that probably work better with less coding work, but do you have an opinion on such a change? [[User:Kripcat|Kripcat]] 08:36, 8 June 2006 (BST)
* There is a simple algorithm for determining growth of jungle, but it's not as clever as this, it's all to do with growth rate of the square and how often people chop it back. There is also a limit of about 10% of the island that can grow in any given day but it's not hitting the limit at the moment. Having to look at the surrounding squares would also involve having to write the growth as a script rather than a couple of lines of SQL so I'm not overly keen on this even though it would make a bit of sense. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 18:32, 8 June 2006 (BST)
*If it requires a large amount of coding work I wouldn't worry about it, theres a lot of more imporant suggestions than this one about, I just thought it may have been something you overlooked when creating the regrowth system and could perhaps be easily fixed. [[User:Kripcat|Kripcat]] 09:49, 9 June 2006 (BST)


}}

===Animal Meat===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type= Alteration|
suggest_scope= get meat from dead animals|
suggest_description= well it's simple you kill and animal and you can get it's meat from the corpse!or.... and also eventually the animal on the floor will run out of meat and as it says"there is a corpse of a large stag" that will not be there when it runs out of meat....[meat restores 2 HP].|
suggest_time=04:52, 8 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Riddick|Riddick]]|
suggest_comments=

* There is an existing [[Suggestions:Items#Meat|meat suggestion]]. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 06:32, 8 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Breakable weapons===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Weapon alteration|
suggest_scope=All weapons|
suggest_description=I'd like to propose that all weapons break occassionally. At the moment, cutlasses and machetes do, but I don't think any other weapons do. This means that there is a surplus of rifles and blowpipes on the island, as they continue to be produced, but are never destroyed. It makes perfect sense for a rifle or blowpipe to break (poor handling or poor workmanship?). Additionally, once someone acquires a heavy sword, it is theirs permanently (to my knowledge). If it was breakable, it would be both more realistic and less unbalancing. That being said, the very name "heavy sword" implies that it is strongly built, so perhaps it should have a significantly lower chance of breaking than a machete or cutlass.|
suggest_time=10:25, 19 July 2006|
suggest_author=[[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]]|
suggest_comments=

* Also take a look at Suggestions:Items, where there is a Remove Uber Sword of Doom (aka Heavy Sword) discussion. If I recall correctly, both Simon and Jones Dye have implied that heavy swords do break. I'm not sure why the name "heavy sword" suggests anything other than the sword weighing a lot. Whether it breaks a little or a lot, the heavy sword is still by far the best item in the game, and would still be superior even if it did 1 less damage and broke with normal frequency. Rifles and blowpipes are common - it would be fine for them to have a slight breakage chance. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 16:14, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
**To me, heavy implies it's either thick or otherwise stronger. However, that's just my personal take on it, and it's not really a major point. My main suggestion is that any weapon should have a chance of breaking. Otherwise, there will be a surplus. Incidentally, I saw the "Uber Sword of Doom" entry, but given that this covers all weapons, I thought it best to create a separate topic. Thank you for your input, by the way. - [[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]]
* I agree weapons should break occasionally, but I especially would like to see machetes and knives dull with use more often (I dont know if I have ever personally had this happen [though I've heard it does happen], and I've been playing for nearly 7 months), changing your machete into a blunt machete (there blunt knives/cutlasses in the game, as far as i know. maybe there should be). Rifles should occasionally explode, too, destroying the weapon and giving you 10 damage or something. Those old-fashioned rifles would occassionally do that. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:47, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Secret Shop===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=new addition|
suggest_scope= |
suggest_description= I like to see the introduction of secret shops (traders) to Shartak which allow players to purchase hard to find items (heavy sword or charms) and/or special/unique (non-searchable) items at hyper-inflated prices say between (100 to 1000 gold coins). Accesses to such shops are either treacherous (crossing an area full of giant squids in deep water) or complex (requiring the completion of puzzles/quests) or time specific (opening for one day a year) or possibly a combination of all three. This would thus open up gameplay potential for high level players who have maxed out or allow players to get certain items without having to leave it up to chance. Potentially I see such shops being placed in ruins, islands or caves to promote exploration.|
suggest_time=09:31, 22 July 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:A for anarchy|A for anarchy]]|
suggest_comments=



}}
===Merchants===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=New Addition|
suggest_scope=All settlements|
suggest_description=At the moment, gold coins are fairly easy to get, but they aren't in much demand. You can use them to trade, but they aren't removed from circulation. Since new gold coins are constantly added, this means the value will steadily decline as scarcity decreases.

I suggest splitting the trading and merchant functions. The trader will continue to trade, but he will cease making his high speed runs to the ammo hut to replenish his stock. He will work solely with what people trade with him. However, there would also be a merchant. He would accept only gold coins as payment, but would have unlimited stocks. To reduce the chance for abuse, he would charge grossly inflated prices. For example, a med kit runs about 2 gold coins under ordinary circumstances. The merchant would charge 8 to 10. He would act as a guaranteed source of supply, but you would pay dearly for the convenience. Spending 200 gold coins would only get 20-25 med kits at this price. Thus, newcomers without much money would not be particularly disadvantaged, since they could just search for what they need, but established players would be able to stock up on items they actually need. Additionally, the merchant would only sell items that can be found in that settlement. GPS could not be bought at the shipwreck, and rum could not be purchased in native villages. Other possible alterations are linking the price to demand or adjusting price to match the item's find rate (e.g. FAK's are harder to find at the shipwreck, so the price will be higher).

The primary purpose of this policy is to serve as a "gold sink". Gold coins spent at the merchant are removed from circulation, reducing the inflation inherent in Shartak's current economic model. That being said, this is a very rough guess, and I'm sure there are flaws I've missed. Please offer any input you may have.|
suggest_time=16:01, 18 August 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]]|
suggest_comments=

Very good suggestion. Also, some major new expensive items that would only be able to be bought from the all-purpose merchant (not found by searching). I was thinking some time ago about being able to buy a cannon for 500 gold coins, which would serve as a means to actually hold a position and provide heavy defensive ability, it would fire on any enemy that comes within a square of it, and if it hits would inflict 50 damage. The specifics could be worked out. Another idea for merchants in each outsider town is to offer tickets aboard ships to the other towns, e.g. a Durham to York ticket would cost 100 gold or something, and the trip would take 50 AP, a significant reduction in AP to get from town to town, but at a steep cost. This would give people major benefits for getting lots of gold, besides the ability to trade for everyday itmes like FAKs. I'm sure people could think of even more things like this. This could really add a lot to the game. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:37, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

}}

Suggestions:Miscellaneous

2006-08-27T00:37:11Z

Arminius: /* Merchants */

{{Suggestions header|page_type=Miscellaneous}}

== Miscellaneous ==

=== Tunnels ===
Tunnels underneath the island lead to interesting places.

''Comments''
:How do you know they don't exist? :) [[User:Dr._J|Dr. J]]
::Tunnels underneath the island '''lead to interesting places.''' --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:43, 8 June 2006 (BST)
----

=== Treasure to capture ===
"Capture the flag" type objective, in this case the flags are treasure from each village. Bonus points in the form of XP or gold coins to be awarded to the holder of the treasure at certain intervals.

''Comments''
:I would like to modify this slightly Mystery Suggester. Please see the '''[[Suggestions:Game_mechanics#Unique_Item_Hunt|Unique Item Hunt]]''' suggestion. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
----

=== Player VS Player Interaction ===
I would propoese a to hit % penalty for attacking members of same Home location. I believe this will promote exploration and perhaps offer a measure of protection of newly "birthed" population. As a recent victim of death by the hands of a warrior from my own villiage this has a bit of appeal to me ;). - [[User:Nankilstlas|Nan]]

''Comments''
:Instead of a hit % penalty, what about reducing or eliminating XP earned for such attacks? It would be similar to the ZvZ penalty used in UrbanDead, and its easier to rationalize not getting as much experience fighting one of your own than to rationalize that its harder to hit your own people for some reason. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 19:52, 27 February 2006 (GMT)

:The to hit penalty and the lack of XP should be combined to discourage intravillage conflicts but only on nonclan members(so clans from the same village can fight with each other to simulate a power struggle for leadership), extend this to shamans as well, as its not often the village shaman gets killed by an out-of-towner. --[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 00:27, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

:I don't like this idea--especially with the inclusion of pirates in the game. It makes sense for pirates to trun on each other now and then, or to turn to pillaging from one of the outsider towns. All of a sudden, for our good RPing we get a reduced chance to hit and no XP?--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:30, 29 March 2006 (BST)

:I have suggested a full non player vs player implementation at [[Suggestions:Game_mechanics#PvP_Protection]]. --[[User:Iamtas|Iamtas]] 10:10, 13 April 2006 (BST)

:Players already get less XP for attacking someone from their own camp, and no kill bonus (if I remember correctly). You would still gain a bit of experience from fighting with your own, just not quite as much as when it's a life or death situation against someone hostile. Do we really need this suggestion to be implemented? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:28, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
----

=== Spirit Movement ===

A couple thoughts on this topic.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 02:29, 6 March 2006 (GMT)

*My character has the "trekking" skill, but as a spirit, actually moves '''slower''' (1 AP per square) than when he's alive! Spirits should move '''at least''' as fast as someone skilled at traversing terrain.
::Perhaps spirits have less impetus than live characters --[[User:Dr. J|Dr. J]] 18:55, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

*Spirits move effortlessly through the thickest jungle, water, swamp--as it should be. Why should mountains be an impediment?
:Perhaps there's some kind of mineral in the mountain that prevents the spirit from passing through it.. could be mined later on to spirit-proof huts or something (clutching at straws here, can you tell) ?
:They also can't move through the deepest water, but that is the boundary of the game I'm guessing.

So what's the suggestion here? Perhaps this belongs in the Talk page instead? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 17:51, 27 May 2006 (BST)

:Is the suggestion that spirits can move for 0.5AP instead of 1AP regardless of terrain? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:29, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

::Fast-moving spirits don't make sense to me. Zipping across Shartak by dying doesn't seem right (unless you're contacting the home shaman). I prefer the idea of a spirit that is somewhat "bound" to their site of death. A high fixed movement cost per square (1AP or 2AP) creates this binding effect. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 05:19, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:The main problem with this suggestion is that it lets spirits travel faster than everyone but explorers (since heavy jungle sometimes gets in a trekker's way), meaning that if you're dead and have somewhere to be, it's better to float across the island than walk across it. This means fewer visible people in the jungle and fewer player interactions overall. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 05:01, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

----

===Player Titles===

To supplement the explored/killed statistics, give players rank titles based on percentiles. For example, if Jack is in the bottom 10% of explorers and the 30th percentile of hunters, his profile would show him as "Greenhorn Jack the Good Shot", if Sheila is in the top 10% killers and middle 50 explorer, she would be "The Adventurous Sheila, Grandmaster Hunter", and [[User:Murk|Murk]] would simply be "Demigod Murk". The titles would be determined once a day like the stats, only apply to active players, and only take active players into consideration when determining percentile. This will help statistics be more relevant to all players, as once time goes on and new players start, the top 100 may be quite a distant goal. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 04:15, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
:I like it. It adds flavor to the game. I also agree that this system should be based on dynamic percentiles to allow for new players to compete with some of the more established ranking players. A static listing would be incredibly difficult for newcomers to break into. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:12, 11 March 2006 (GMT)

*This could be done in a similar manner to the rogue elephants and ferocious tigers that we have now. Several questions need to be answered first.
:* A title for every player or just those in the weekly top A% of whatever chart?
:* Just to be displayed in the profile or in the location description as well e.g. Here you can see [http://www.shartak.com/profile.cgi?id=1850 Fatninja], the hunter, and [http://www.shartak.com/profile.cgi?id=6 Leaky Bocks].
:* What kind of statistics would need to be kept for this to work?
::* areas explored for the explorer titles - not a problem, we have the top 20 explorers this week already, it can be expanded to include however many players are required to make it work since it's just a case of manipulating the raw data differently.
::* animal kills for the hunter titles? specific types of animals killed e.g "Bob the parrot killer", "Fred the big game hunter", "Bert the murderer" (pkills) rather than just all animals killed?
::* something for some other kind of title, trading perhaps? "Tycho the master salesperson" for example ;)
:* Of the above, the explorer titles are the easiest to do. Kills will need some adjusting because there are no database timestamps on kills at the moment, just raw quantities as seen on the [http://www.shartak.com/statkills.html kill statistics] page..
:--[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:43, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

:: A title for every character, with the top A% appearing in the location description and profile pages, and everyone else only appearing in the profile page - this lets everyone know where they stand and keeps the location page less cluttered. For statistics, some records for healers and wailers should be kept in addition to trading, like HP healed (modified by recipient's travelling/trading/killing stats), number of times screamed/shrieked/wailed (balanced for severity of attack), number of trades (modified by number of towns trades were done in and rarity of item). Kills in particular to the animal that has been killed would be more distinctive and flavourful - should it also be in particular to the town (or clan??) for pkills, making "the Butcher of York" an official title?

:: Weekly tabulating of titles will make them very transient. Perhaps once a title is acquired it is kept so long as you're halfway to that title each successive week (not affecting others gaining the same title if they're in the appropriate rankings)? --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 15:42, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

::I thought a little bit about this after I made that early comment. It becomes fairly hard for a newbie to compete with the existing stat leaders regardless if the awards were static or scaling. I think the best way to handle this is a two-tiered approach, one that rewards players for accomplishing static minor goals and one that rewards players for being the highest rank. The latter is already accomplished through the statistics, but the former has not been addressed. Most of what follows is inspired by a [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Talk:Suggestions&diff=prev&oldid=173904 draft suggestion] on the Urban Dead wiki and my experience with Nexus War. I see these award descriptions appearing only on the profile pages to cut down on clutter. Each degree of award is assigned at some arbitrary number. Perhaps 10, 100, 500 (with more titles developed as the game progresses). When a player achieves a target number, an award flag is raised. Every 24 hour period, the server will compute the rankings and append a prefix or suffix to the player's existing award.
::* Area explored - Wanderer, Traveller, Adventurer
:::Bonus prefixes for top-ranking explorers: Top 1% - Worldly, Top 5% - Experienced, Top 20% - (e.g., Worldly Adventurer)
::* Hasn't killed anyone - Pacifist
::* Killed animals - Herder, Hunter, Slayer
:::Bonus prefixes to state which type of animal the player has killed the most (e.g., Wild Boar Herder, Elephant Hunter, Special Slayer)
::* Killed opposing side - Killer, Fighter, Conqueror
::* Killed same side - Turncoat, Backstabber, Traitor
:::Bonus prefixes for top-ranking killers: Top 1% - Bloodthirsty, Top 5% - Fierce, Top 20% - Brutal (e.g., Bloodthirsty Conqueror, Bloodthirsty Traitor, Bloodthirsty Wild Boar Slayer).

----

===Inventory Limit===

I think I would like to have an indication of how much of my inventory limit is being used up. :D --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:12, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
* The inventory is somewhat flexible in size (+/- 2) so wouldn't be completely foolproof if represented as "(x/y)" appended to the inventory header, I could do something like a small bit of text just below the header like "You can carry lots more" "You can carry more things" "You can't carry much more" "You might be able to carry a couple more things" "You can't carry anything else". The question is though, is it just you that wants this feature? If so, you might be able to do something clever with greasemonkey. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:02, 14 April 2006 (BST)
* Ah. In that case, a greasemonkey script would be fine. I imagine it would require a little list of all the inventory item names and then a size value assigned to each. Then parse through the list and do simple addition and display the result. I might try my hand at it, but I don't promise anything. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 20:13, 14 April 2006 (BST)
**"is it just you that wants this feature?" Hmm, I assumed everyone would want this feature. Perhaps "your inventory is getting full" and "your inventory is full" would be sufficient warning, but inventory size info seems valuable. Also, the Trader won't give me a rifle for my bananas (you can't carry more) even though I'm giving away much more than I'm getting -- the trading mechanism appears to check for overload based on carrying both the given and received items. Perhaps a feature... but he's the guy who owns an entire hut, you'd think he'd be willing to carry both during the transaction rather than requiring me to shoulder the burden. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 09:10, 29 April 2006 (BST)
***<Bump.> Also, why not "(x/y)" appended to the inventory header? If the game code can figure out whether or not the inventory is full, it seems that the player could be able to figure out the same info. Even a simple load indication "(x)" would work fine, if the worry is that total inventory capacity 70-74 depends on quirky variable info rather than being static based on class. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:36, 15 May 2006 (BST) Besides which, seems like most everyone has an inventory limit of 71 now. (2 for blowpipes or rifles, 0 for gold coins.) --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:31, 20 May 2006 (BST)
*See the last list item at [[The_Shartak_Wiki:Community_Portal#Greasemonkey_scripts]]. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 07:51, 28 May 2006 (BST)
* Still needed/wanted or is the greasemonkey script sufficient? Would this change if, for example, backpacks or some other means of carrying extra items was implemented? Inventory size: 23/90 --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:46, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
** It would be nice to have an official inventory counter mechanic as I believe the script is based on a handful of assumptions (inventory size for all classes is 71, gold coins are weightless, ranged weapons have weight of 2 units) and will require testing and updating whenever a new item is added. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 19:01, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
* Ok, this has been added...
<nowiki>36 / 70</nowiki>
but the invsize style is set to display:none by default - override it to get it to display alongside the inventory header. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 21:34, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
----

===In-game Rankings===

I was noticing recently that one of my characters seemed to have killed a lot of parrots lately. I realizing that such information is tracked on the game stats page, but not necessarily everyone looks at it, and I thought it might be fun to have something in-game to acknowledge the player who has killed the most creatures of each type. Maybe a line is added to the player's description page, or the color of their name is different, or a mysterious "crown of the fallen parrots" appears in their inventory--no real impact, just bragging rights. It should be easy enough to implement, and might add a little intrigue.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 01:03, 16 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* See the player titles suggestion further up! --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:46, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
----

=== Wiki: table CSS ===

It would be nice if there were a class set up in the wiki's CSS file so that we could make attractive tables (see my ugly, hackish one on [[Tips and tricks]]). I tried to edit [[WikiMedia:Common.css]] but it's edit-locked. --[[User:Vtbassmatt|VTBassMatt]] 16:14, 23 March 2006 (GMT)
* I don't know that WikiMedia:Common.css is the right thing to edit - That link takes me off to an external site! --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 18:09, 23 March 2006 (GMT)
** What the heck! Ha, sorry. Now I can't find the page on either this wiki or the WikiMedia page. Weird. Well anyhow, it would be nice to have a useful table class. Thanks, Simon.
*** What kind of table class? Do you mean something to give a particular title bar, and row colours? Similar to the one on the front page. Got an example of what you'd put in the css file? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:58, 3 April 2006 (BST)
**** Colors aren't too important, I was more concerned with borders. Something simple like:
table.bordered, table.bordered td {
border: 1px solid black;

----

=== Pets ===

''Discussion of Pets has been moved to the existing [[Suggestions:Game mechanics#Pet System|Pet System]] suggestion.''
----

===ruins===
the ruins in the game are mostly for show, and that can be aggravating at times, as i would love to "explore" ruins more if there was something there. i am suggesting several things such as:
*unique, ruin only monsters
*special items found only in ruins
*if quests are implemented, a quest location

this is a very vague suggestion, but i feel that alot of the ruins on the map are just too bland. i camped out at ruins with my character "Richard Rose" and i stayed there for a week (in real time) because there was nothing better to do. and nothing and i mean NOTHING passed by, no game, no fruit trees, no players. it was completely desolate, and i am just suggesting several "interesting" components for ruins.

'''Comments:'''
*I have to agree that last I checked, the Ruins seemed like a total bust. Fifty searches yielded worse than the typical Jungle average. No events triggered, no creatures, no spirits, no variable flavor descriptions.
:* "As the wind blows through the ruined arch, you hear the spirit voices of the ancestors" (gain 1 XP).
:* "You find a bundle of parrot feathers tied to a leather strap. The spirit magic of this amulet has long since faded away." (junk item that could be implemented with magic/spirits later).
:* "Ghosts of the ancient dead chill your soul" (lose 2 HP, gain 2 XP).
:* "Sliding the heavy iron lid to one side, you discover [[The Conch|The Conch(tm)]]!"
:...And so on. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:56, 15 May 2006 (BST)
----

===Wind===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game Element Addition|
suggest_scope=Everyone|
suggest_description=
Add the concept of wind to the game. Could be either constant (always from the west) or random over time, possibly even dependant on the side of the island you're on. For now, including a changing wind speed (10mph to 30mph) may be overly complex. Wind can affect spirit movement, pigeon delivery times, fire movement, etc.|
suggest_time=16:54, 14 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Frisco|Frisco]]|
suggest_comments=

* Working this out technically might be a bit much, but I would like to see similar environmental variables on the island. It would increase the variety in the game and provide a creative amount of unpredictability while not being outlandish. Perhaps there can be a similar effect for the water current and tide as well. I can't wait until there are hurricane-strength winds that whip around everyone unless they're safe inside the mountain tunnels. Mwahaha. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 20:08, 14 April 2006 (BST)
:* A tornado/hurricane would be possible, scattering players and npcs that it runs over into adjacent squares. It would have to move every 30-60 minutes and theoretically could move players halfway across the island if it happened to throw them into the same square that it then moved into next. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 16:20, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Animal Levelling===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=balance change|
suggest_scope=NPC Animals|
suggest_description=Each time an animal kills a PC, the animal should have its stats increase: increased HP (possibly also reset to max), more damaging attacks, better chance of hitting, faster movements, possibly a more aggresive nature? There probably aren't that many animals out there that have actually killed more than one or two humans before being killed themselves, but this would increase that chance, leading to the natural formation of the mythical beasts that have been mentioned in other suggestions. And if it doesn't happen naturally, i'm sure it wouldn't be too long before animal cultists start sacrificing themselves to animals in order to create their gods.

Characters with the animal affinity skill should be able to identify stronger creatures:
:"Also here is a man-eating tiger"
:"Also here is an extremely large man-eating alligator"
:"Also here is an extremely large man-eating elephant that is barreling towards you"
:"Also here is an extremely large man-eating parrot that is barreling towards you with claws the size of cutlasses"
|
suggest_time=20:26, 13 May 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Frisco|Frisco]]|
suggest_comments=

... That's a mite scary. I don't know how this would affect server load, but that would be my only complaint here.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:06, 14 May 2006 (BST)
* Sounds neat. Will there be a leveling cap? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:45, 15 May 2006 (BST)
** Probably should be a cap, though a rather high one. Time limitations would prevent animals from growing too powerful before someone takes them out, but a dedicated group of cultists could go crazy creating an invicible creature. Or perhaps once an animal reaches a certain level, it gets named (a monkey might be "King Kong" at high enough stats), and this one creature per animal type can continue advancing while all others are capped at that level (can't have more than one King Kong running around). —unsigned by [[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 02:38, May 15, 2006 (BST)
* Awesome. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44, Cultist of the Man-Eating Parrot]] 22:57, 15 May 2006 (BST)
* So let me get this straight - if an animal kills a PC, they gain hp, and accuracy of their attack, and possibly damage as well. say hp + 2, accuracy + 10%, damage + 1, up to a certain level (accuracy can only go up to 100% of course). Easy enough so far. If they get killed, they reset to the normal hp/accuracy/damage and start afresh as a normal level animal? I must say, I quite like this idea. If this is correct, then there's no server load issue. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 09:33, 28 May 2006 (BST)
** This sounds very good. I recommend that you let each animal reach 100% accuracy and cap damage at ''base damage + 5'' (a 9x100% elephant would be plenty lethal enough, I think). PC deaths to animals are probably rare enough that you could be more generous with HP bonuses: increase an animal's current HP and max HP by ''base health / 3 + 1'' for each of its kills. You could cap max HP (after five increases?), but I wouldn't. An animal should be restored to base health if its HP bonus wouldn't get it there (so an elephant, with a 20+1 HP bonus, would go from 32 HP to 60 and have 81 max HP, or go from 42 to 63 and still have 81 max HP). In theory, after five kills you could see an elephant with 165 HP that dealt 9 damage at 100% accuracy, but only if it got those kills without being harmed at all. Such a beast would be incredibly intimidating, but also incredibly rare. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 22:25, 28 May 2006 (BST)
:::What about new players? They go into the forest for the first time, log out, log in only to discover that "an extremely large man-eating parrot that is barreling towards you with claws the size of cutlasses" has killed them in two moves. Nobody naturally gets stronger by dying and this would only prevent low level characters from leveling up.--[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:13, 29 May 2006 (BST)
::::The idea is that there wouldn't be that many of these, because they'd be rather difficult to make even a ''little'' better, anyways.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 15:49, 29 May 2006 (BST)
::::: Simon has it right. hp + 5 (or +10%), accuracy + 10%, damage + 1, with only a few upgrades possible. Or, for example, promote to level 1 after 1 kill, level 2 after 2 more kills (3 total), level 3 after 3 (6) kills, and so on. If a max-upgraded parrot is only as strong as a level 0 tiger, this is nowhere near "kill-in-two-moves" monstrosity. This would add excitement and flavor to the game without any downside. I doubt any animal in Shartak has more than two kills. As the 300-hp Squid shows, any attention-getting animal will get torn to bits by PCs. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 23:14, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
* Implemented, but with slightly less elaborate titles (and the maths isn't quite the same either)! --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:48, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

}}

===UDTool type Firefox plugin===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Plugin|
suggest_scope=All players with Firefox|
suggest_description=I don't have any coding skills, but I'm sure many of you out there do. Currently there is no way to add people to a contact list, thus making it difficult to recoginse people. Could someone please develop a UDTool style plugin (like that seen in Urban Dead) that allows you to add player's names and assign them to groups with user defined colours? Basically just port the UDTool over to Shartak users, so when you're in a hut or square with others, you can see people you've encoutnered with a llittle bit of text to pop up at your cursor telling you why they're important to you (like the 'notes' feature in the UDTool).|
suggest_time=08:18, 27 May 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Rip Purr|Rip Purr]]|
suggest_comments=

* This has partially been implemented in-game, we now have contact lists that identify people from the opposing side as well. That's not to say that an UDTool type plugin isn't required though. Perhaps this isn't the best place to put this suggestion though, but somewhere for the real greasemonkey wizards to see it? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 20:50, 12 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Hide Skills===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Technical|
suggest_scope=Everyone|
suggest_description=I think it would be useful to be able to have a "Hide Skills" button which hides what skills you possess from those viewing your profile, I know many people wouldn't care but it would be useful for players whose skills don't fit with the way they roleplay. Besides who can tell how good a shot someone is simply by looking at them?|
suggest_time=08:18, 31 May 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Kripcat|Kripcat]]|
suggest_comments=

* ''Comment removed'' --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 20:06, 6 June 2006 (BST)
** Well, hiding (as a skill) seems different from "hiding your list of skills"... although perhaps that would be a way to boost characters with Sixth Sense, who know how good a shot you are simply by looking at you. I like the effects of having fully revealed skills. Realistically, your home town should hardly be public knowledge, nor the date of your last demise, nor your killer, and so on. Perhaps a "Disguise" skill would give you access to a button that shields your character info (such as level) while you sleep (at a small AP cost). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 21:51, 1 June 2006 (BST)
*** It makes sense. No more can I look at the victim's skills t osee how well they'll be able to track me if Ifail to kill them. ;) --[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 23:50, 1 June 2006 (BST)
***That is another bonus to be sure, might add a little ''tang'' to your game. [[User:Kripcat|Kripcat]] 07:28, 6 June 2006 (BST)
***The problem with doing anything "while you sleep" is that it's hard to know whether you're actually not playing, or just taking a very long time between clicks. Idleness is triggered after 7 days of not doing anything, although I'm not sure if simply loading the main game page is considered to be doing something, I'd have to check. I suppose "asleep" is either something you activate on your last go and the next time you reload the page, you're awake again, or else when you haven't done anything for an arbitrary length of time (say 3 hours). --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:18, 9 June 2006 (BST)
****There's no issue with ''player-activated'' sleep conditions. Clicking a button ("Disguise Self 4AP" or however many AP you want it to cost) activates the Disguise. Player skills are then concealed. They remain Disguised forever until they click anything, at which point they leave the state. The state never activates automatically (in 3 hours or 7 days), because you have to pay to activate it. There are no mechanical complexities. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 23:03, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Jungle Regrowth===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type= Alteration|
suggest_scope= The regrowth of the Jungle Terrain type|
suggest_description= As I understand the growth of the Jungle terrain is currently random. At any time a square of jungle can grow anywhere on the map, except for Water and Beach terrain, and when it happens to grow on a square which already contains Jungle it increases the density of that jungle by one. Now to me, this appears to conflict with one of the driving emotions of Shartak, the battle between civilisation and 'the wilds'. At the moment a player can spend a week's AP expanding the settlement's borders only to find that jungle has randomly cropped up in the middle of the settlement. This is highly demoralising and also leads to strange patches of jungle in the middle of no where. I prepose that new Jungle Terrain is formed in the following manner:

*Whenever a square of Jungle with a density above D2 or above is touching a square of D0 terrain it has a 1% chance every hour of "seeding" each D0 square with Jungle. By seeding I mean, the D0 square would become Jungle terrain with a density half that of the square that seeded it.

*Each square of Jungle (with the exception of D10) has a 7.5% chance of "growing" into the density level 1 above its current.

This would mean that roads would be harder to maintain, as they would have to be recut every 4 days or so, but settlements would be easier to maintain and expand as a dedicated weeder or two could slowly push back the borders of the settlement. I know nothing of coding so it may be a coding nightmare and the numbers may need to be tweaked, but I feel that this makes the Jungle more the second enemy that it is in all those Jungle Warfare fiction novels rather than an annoying and unrealistic random occurrence.

'''Edit''': On second thought it may just be easier to create a "coding requirment" that new Jungle Terrain appear within 3 squares of an already positioned Jungle Square. [[User:Kripcat|Kripcat]] 08:24, 6 June 2006 (BST) |
suggest_time=08:18, 6 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Kripcat|Kripcat]]|
suggest_comments=

If I understand your comment correctly, you're bothered by the light green d1 Jungles that pop up inside settlements. It is possible that the game already uses a non-random algorithm to grow jungle; in any case, jungle does not appear to grow instantly two or more levels, so the cleanup is ongoing but minor. The crux of your suggestion could be achieved by modifying the current grow system so that d1 did not grow in a fully d0 zone. For example, the game checks a d0-d1 to make sure that there is adjacent d1+ jungle; if not, the game heads out in a random direction (or towards the center of shartak) to the last available d0 square before jungle, and grows that location d0-d1 instead. This would result in the same overall growth speed, but d0-d1 changes would occur on the boundaries rather than the interior of a paved area. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:55, 8 June 2006 (BST)
*Yes that probably work better with less coding work, but do you have an opinion on such a change? [[User:Kripcat|Kripcat]] 08:36, 8 June 2006 (BST)
* There is a simple algorithm for determining growth of jungle, but it's not as clever as this, it's all to do with growth rate of the square and how often people chop it back. There is also a limit of about 10% of the island that can grow in any given day but it's not hitting the limit at the moment. Having to look at the surrounding squares would also involve having to write the growth as a script rather than a couple of lines of SQL so I'm not overly keen on this even though it would make a bit of sense. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 18:32, 8 June 2006 (BST)
*If it requires a large amount of coding work I wouldn't worry about it, theres a lot of more imporant suggestions than this one about, I just thought it may have been something you overlooked when creating the regrowth system and could perhaps be easily fixed. [[User:Kripcat|Kripcat]] 09:49, 9 June 2006 (BST)


}}

===Animal Meat===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type= Alteration|
suggest_scope= get meat from dead animals|
suggest_description= well it's simple you kill and animal and you can get it's meat from the corpse!or.... and also eventually the animal on the floor will run out of meat and as it says"there is a corpse of a large stag" that will not be there when it runs out of meat....[meat restores 2 HP].|
suggest_time=04:52, 8 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Riddick|Riddick]]|
suggest_comments=

* There is an existing [[Suggestions:Items#Meat|meat suggestion]]. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 06:32, 8 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Breakable weapons===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Weapon alteration|
suggest_scope=All weapons|
suggest_description=I'd like to propose that all weapons break occassionally. At the moment, cutlasses and machetes do, but I don't think any other weapons do. This means that there is a surplus of rifles and blowpipes on the island, as they continue to be produced, but are never destroyed. It makes perfect sense for a rifle or blowpipe to break (poor handling or poor workmanship?). Additionally, once someone acquires a heavy sword, it is theirs permanently (to my knowledge). If it was breakable, it would be both more realistic and less unbalancing. That being said, the very name "heavy sword" implies that it is strongly built, so perhaps it should have a significantly lower chance of breaking than a machete or cutlass.|
suggest_time=10:25, 19 July 2006|
suggest_author=[[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]]|
suggest_comments=

* Also take a look at Suggestions:Items, where there is a Remove Uber Sword of Doom (aka Heavy Sword) discussion. If I recall correctly, both Simon and Jones Dye have implied that heavy swords do break. I'm not sure why the name "heavy sword" suggests anything other than the sword weighing a lot. Whether it breaks a little or a lot, the heavy sword is still by far the best item in the game, and would still be superior even if it did 1 less damage and broke with normal frequency. Rifles and blowpipes are common - it would be fine for them to have a slight breakage chance. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 16:14, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
**To me, heavy implies it's either thick or otherwise stronger. However, that's just my personal take on it, and it's not really a major point. My main suggestion is that any weapon should have a chance of breaking. Otherwise, there will be a surplus. Incidentally, I saw the "Uber Sword of Doom" entry, but given that this covers all weapons, I thought it best to create a separate topic. Thank you for your input, by the way.

}}

===Secret Shop===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=new addition|
suggest_scope= |
suggest_description= I like to see the introduction of secret shops (traders) to Shartak which allow players to purchase hard to find items (heavy sword or charms) and/or special/unique (non-searchable) items at hyper-inflated prices say between (100 to 1000 gold coins). Accesses to such shops are either treacherous (crossing an area full of giant squids in deep water) or complex (requiring the completion of puzzles/quests) or time specific (opening for one day a year) or possibly a combination of all three. This would thus open up gameplay potential for high level players who have maxed out or allow players to get certain items without having to leave it up to chance. Potentially I see such shops being placed in ruins, islands or caves to promote exploration.|
suggest_time=09:31, 22 July 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:A for anarchy|A for anarchy]]|
suggest_comments=



}}
===Merchants===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=New Addition|
suggest_scope=All settlements|
suggest_description=At the moment, gold coins are fairly easy to get, but they aren't in much demand. You can use them to trade, but they aren't removed from circulation. Since new gold coins are constantly added, this means the value will steadily decline as scarcity decreases.

I suggest splitting the trading and merchant functions. The trader will continue to trade, but he will cease making his high speed runs to the ammo hut to replenish his stock. He will work solely with what people trade with him. However, there would also be a merchant. He would accept only gold coins as payment, but would have unlimited stocks. To reduce the chance for abuse, he would charge grossly inflated prices. For example, a med kit runs about 2 gold coins under ordinary circumstances. The merchant would charge 8 to 10. He would act as a guaranteed source of supply, but you would pay dearly for the convenience. Spending 200 gold coins would only get 20-25 med kits at this price. Thus, newcomers without much money would not be particularly disadvantaged, since they could just search for what they need, but established players would be able to stock up on items they actually need. Additionally, the merchant would only sell items that can be found in that settlement. GPS could not be bought at the shipwreck, and rum could not be purchased in native villages. Other possible alterations are linking the price to demand or adjusting price to match the item's find rate (e.g. FAK's are harder to find at the shipwreck, so the price will be higher).

The primary purpose of this policy is to serve as a "gold sink". Gold coins spent at the merchant are removed from circulation, reducing the inflation inherent in Shartak's current economic model. That being said, this is a very rough guess, and I'm sure there are flaws I've missed. Please offer any input you may have.|
suggest_time=16:01, 18 August 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]]|
suggest_comments=

Very good suggestion. Also, some major new expensive items that would only be able to be bought from the all-purpose merchant (not found by searching). I was thinking some time ago about being able to buy a cannon for 500 gold coins, which would serve as a means to actually hold a position and provide heavy defensive ability, it would fire on any enemy that comes within a square of it, and if it hits would inflict 50 damage. The specifics could be worked out. Another idea for merchants in each outsider town is to offer tickets aboard ships to the other towns, e.g. a Durham to York ticket would cost 100 gold or something, and the trip would take 50 AP, a significant reduction in AP to get from town to town, but at a steep cost. This would give people major benefits for getting lots of gold, besides the ability to trade for everyday itmes like FAKs. I'm sure people could think of even more things like this. This could really add a lot to the game. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:37, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

}}

Suggestions:Classes

2006-08-27T00:21:19Z

Arminius: /* Scientist (Rename) */

{{Suggestions header|page_type=Class}}

==Classes==

=== Priest ===
Starts off with a "Holy Scripture" and the "Religious Devotion Skill". --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
:None of the other classes start with a skill. I think they should just have access to the skill, and maybe stuff like scientists don't (I'm not saying all scientists are unreligious, just that there probably aren't any THAT religious!). [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 11:06, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

: "Missionary" might be a better term, I think, than priest. It carries a better message for the whole colonial thing. I like the idea of having religious figures in the game. Makes it a tad more realistic.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 06:40, 28 March 2006 (BST)

: The Missionary / Priest would be a better counter class to the Shaman, which are the religious type of the Natives, rather than the technological. In addition, A better counter class to the scientist would also have to be made. Perhaps spy? As in the Native spy had been spying on / stealing technology from the scientists?--[[User:Zydd Soral|Zydd Soral]] 17:02 25 July 2006
----

=== Scientist (Rename) ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Class, rename|
suggest_scope=Scientist|
suggest_description=This is a suggestion to change the name of the Scientist class to Professor. From Tarzan to Gilligan's Island, the science-type in has been regarded as Professor rather than Scientist.|
suggest_time=21:48, 23 February 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*I like! --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:38, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

*I don't. If someone wants to roleplay as a scholarly Prof, more power to them. As it is, the term "Scientist" suggests a broader archetype, inviting players to make of their character what they will. which I favor. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 23:56, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

*I thought would be closer to anthropologists as, well those are the scientists who explore the jungle. I don't think there would be many astrophysicists or chemists(maybe a few chemists but they wouldn't be with the exploring group-they would come after). You might see one or two medical doctors, but all anthropologists who go into the field have first-aid training(and they don't bring medical doctors when working in hostile landscapes). On top of that the term anthropologist has so many subdisciplines that it is almost as broad as saying scientists. --[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 00:36, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

*I vote we change the name to doctor because it would be more historically accurate given the chronological context of the game, as most merchant/exploration vessels had doctors, and the majority of doctors during the era where highly educated, trained and scientific. --[[User:A for anarchy|A for anarchy]] 00:42, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
:*With the recent skill changes for scientists, it certainly makes sense for them to be renamed doctors. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:21, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


}}

=== Villager/Settler ===

[[User:Lint|Lint]] recently made a very salient point with respect to [[Game_design|Class Balance]]. Namely, there are very few players '''(4% currently)''' choosing to be (Outsider) Settlers or (Native) Villagers. Realistically, these should be the most abundant classes, so clearly (aside from trival starting inventory) these classes clearly lack any definable appeal. I propose that these 2 classes (due to their years of plying and scavenging their surroundings) are more adept at searching then their peers. As such, they have a +20% bonus in base search percentage. There is precedent for this in UD, with the "consumer" class getting an immediate advantage in searching, and though the nature of that game (i.e. constant heavy barricading of Malls) makes it difficult for consumers to realize their advantage, this would not be the case in Shartak. This change will undoubtedly make these overlooked classes more attractive to new players.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:25, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
:I wouldn't say that it's completely a bad thing that the Settler and Villager populations are low. (Wouldn't you say that the Consumer population is the lowest in "that other game"?) However, I do agree that this class doesn't appear to be getting the same respect as the others. The search bonus or perhaps the '''Agriculture''' suggestion might be justifiable. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

:I think your idea is good, Jackel. I'd make it a +50% base search percentage, and I'd also make the "Animal Husbandry" skill guarantee that no animals but sharks, alligators and tigers will attack without provocation. "Years of passive behavior around animals have taught you how to avoid their aggression." Furthermore, I recommend that the scream/shriek/wail skills become villager-only (with "Ghostly Whisper" available to everyone); non-villagers with those three skills could have their XP refunded, or perhaps just left alone. Villagers are underrepresented by far. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 18:09, 21 May 2006 (BST)
----

=== Animal ===
It would be interesting to play as an animal. They wouldn't be able to use some items or learn certain skills, but they could smell the trails of humans and other animals. Some could eat vegetation, an action similar to choping, and restore HP. --[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 18:24, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
:(Obligatory thinly-disguised anti-griefing suggestion) I'd expect that a playable animal would never be able to see humans' names. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 12:38, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
:How would the existing human skill '''Animal Affinity''' affect playable animals? --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 12:38, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
::''You go to attack Dr. J but he scratches you under your chin so you decide not to''
:::Haha, okay, I guess that's sorted after all :) --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:26, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
::::I actually don't think this would be very fun. Animals couldn't use ANY items (ok, maybe monkeys could use the GPS ;), communicate with anyone other than others of their kind (except for out-of-game), couldn't "level" unless whole new sets of skills for each animal class were created and tested. They would essentially exist to eat, and avoid being eaten; not unlike real animals, but not very fun compared to the other classes.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 19:17, 8 March 2006 (GMT)
:::::Not very fun? Elephants would be the only characters capable of swinging trees for great damage, monkeys get to swing in trees to avoid attacks and better chances of plucking fruit from the trees, crocs get drowning capability, parrots get all the talking capabilities plus faster movements, tigers get uber-stealth plus throat-bite, wild boars have charging damage, and the deer get to prance about looking pretty. But yeah, would require a lot of new sets of skills. Maybe polymorph should be a skill. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 03:44, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
:The general idea of playing a sentient animal strikes me as a little too silly.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:01, 28 March 2006 (BST)
----

=== Native Pirate ===
Natives should have a pirate equivalent. Natives from nearby islands perhaps? They would have canoes in the water like the pirate ship but they would be more like huts as there would be more than one of them with less stuff in each. Native pirates would have 65 HP and start with a fish and a spear.--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 04:19, 1 April 2006 (BST)
:Not every Outsider class has to have a Native equivalent nad vice versa
----

=== Mountain Men ===

i dont know if there are any mountains in the game, as i havent played for long, but there should be a new group of units known as the "mountains men" they would have their own breed of warriors, shamans, etc... they could climb on the mountains (as others could not, atleeast not without a new skill know as "mountain climbing") this could totally change the game and expand the map, as these new "mountain men" would have their own technical "world" seeing as they just ventured past the mountains and found life so they would have certain items only attainable up in the mountains, like ice, which could act as an "anti" wound where it heals you 1 hp every 3 turns or so and would melt after several days. this could also open up an entirely new class, know as:

trader, they can be played from any view point, mountain trader, native trader, etc... and they would start out with several items (maybe gold too) and they would be like shamans, when you attack them it says "they skillfully dodge you" but instead of never hitting, chances are just extremely low, traders could not attack other players unless they are defending (ie, someone attacks them first) they would have their own skill tree that would include:

+Mountain Climbing
+Veteran Climber (uses only 1 AP traversing mountains)

+Camper (can make wooden huts, but for 60 AP and several required items, huts can be perishable, or collapsable, maybe even just one hut per trader that can be moved)

+Salesman (can set up shop and act like the trading post NPCS)
+Bargain Hunter (better chance of finding things, maybe 25%)

all traders (could) start out with al knowledge, as in, outsider knowledge, native, etc... thus letting them communicate better)

traders would be seen differently, as in, they could be yellow, where mountain men would be brown.

Items would follow (my ideas):

Club: like machete, can cut through trees and has 20% chance to hit
Rock: easiest projectile, acts like blowpipe, single use, button added "find rock" in-game
Rope: can tie people up until they spend 10AP getting out
Log: acts like greatsword, dealing 8 damage (geez, what, a log swung at you wont do big damage?)

CAVES: could also be implemented, they would act like huts, can only be carved on with a machete or club (as in, a man beats a meessage into the soft rock.. i dont know how though...)
GREAT CAVE: would act like an exclusive mountain man power-up, it is basically a great hall, when searching, there is a 20% better chance of finding food and rocks, also where shaman is, and trading post.

MOUNTAIN TOP: several of these would be implemented, once at the top, players could see the island, getting to the top would be like entering a hut, except it would look like this

(down) (empty spot) (up)

moving onto a down, or up, would move players up or down a floor, mountains would usually be 10-15 floors, sometimes "creatures" could be found, heres my "creature" list:

Bat, 1dmg 8hp (basically, a mountain parrot)
Dire Wolf, 4dmg 25hp (a strong tiger)
Gremlins, 5 dmg 50hp (they are like, disgruntled mountain people)

other creatures could be added.
once at the top of the mountain, players could see the island in DETAIL, as in, the island would be viewed in blocks, like urbandead, except players could be seen, no names, justthe number of people.

suggestions would be appreciated

'''Comments:'''
*Honestly... I don't like it. I don't mean to be rude or harsh. I can see that you've put a lot of work into this. Still, it seems like it would be a lot of work for poor Simon with very little gain. I mean, what ''really'' distinguishes them from the natives and outsiders? They go up mountains? They get a special and highly complex area of the map only available to them? Again... I don't like it.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 06:49, 28 March 2006 (BST)
----

===Mysterious Beings===

Ok, so, in several survivor movies, there are aliens on the island, (thinking of lord of the flies) and sometimes the aliens just turn out to be people or sumtin, anyway, aliens could decieve players by disguising themselves as either outsiders, or natives, a button could be placed that would function like an attack button:
Disguise:| outsider| native| Mountain Man|
and etc. if a disguised alien is killed, the player recieves a small exp bonus, as they just killed someone acting fishy and saved their village etc...

:I can already see the rampant spying and problems this would cause. Why would anyone want to play as just an Outsider or Native anymore? These super beings would enjoy all the benefits of both without any of the drawbacks. Anyways, I doubt Shartak will ever support extraterrestrial life. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 16:45, 8 April 2006 (BST)
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===Ghosts===

when ghosts die they should have the option of going to the "necropolis" which would be where there are no plants or trees, and special "ghostly" items could be found. if one so unlucky outsider or native were to step into the "necropolis" they could be:| A. turned instantly into a ghost because of miasmas in the air| B. able to be attacked by ghosts, but not attack back| have something unlucky happen, like an item is taken away at random, or 25 hp is taken away|
the necropolis could also have a "ghost" trader that would act like a normal trader, but would have items for cheap. now, when i say "cheap" i mean at the cost of no items, bear with me now, items in necropolis would not cost items, yet cost EXPERIENCE to "buy" from the trader, thus balancing the "necropolis"
several abilities could be introduced making entirely new classes for ghosts:|
* '''ghostly charm''' ghosts cannot be seen by outsiders unless attacking
** '''ghostly weaponry''' allows ghosts to hurt the living, but can also be attacked.

* '''ghost bag''' allows ghosts to search and find items like normal players
** '''ghost hands''' allows ghosts to use items

* '''ghost glyphs''' allows ghosts to "bless" players and ghosts (as ghosts will be MUCH weaker than players, like, only 15-25 hp)
** '''ghostly whisper''' blesses a LIVING player and allows them to funtion as a ghost for 50AP per blessing
** '''angry aura''' +1 attack strength, -5% to hit lasts 50AP (blessing)
*** '''sad aura''' -2 attack strengh (no negatives) +40% to hit, lasts 50AP(blessing)
** '''disipated aura''' can move like a ghost, 1AP for every move, lasts 50AP(blessing)
*** '''observant aura''' can explore squares around location without visiting them, 50AP(blessing)
**** '''godly aura''' +2 attack strength +30% to hit, lasts 100AP,(blessing)

godly aura requires atleast 3 blessings to be bought.
special weapons that are available only to ghosts with "ghost hands" and arent shown in inventory if revived, but are still there:|
ghost sword same stats as machete, except +10% to hit
ghostly fluid: acts like first aid kit
sacrificial ectoplasm: acts like poisonous berries|

the entire ghost tree (aside from blessings) will look like this:|
*'''living knowledge''' (acts like outsider knowledge and native
**'''ghostly Commune''' allows ghosts to talk to humans
*'''ancient knowledge''' +1 to attack damage +10% to hit
**'''ancient plethora of knowledge''' +15% to hit, does stack.
*'''lost and found''' outsiders and natives often lose things, this skill allows ghosts to "search" for items "lost" by them
*'''wraith form''' allows ghosts to be seen but can only talk and move, no other actions
**'''polterghiest form''' uses energy (10-20AP) to swing objects around, 40% chance of hurting everyone in block with 1-2 damage|
|
POLITICS|
|
ghosts can purchase "politics of the gods" as a skill and can run for "office" in the "necropolis" one single ghost will be elected and can demand sacrifices from villages who will have a "pot" in the center of town that players can "donate" items and dead bodies, if the "uber ghost" is not please, said persons can send "plague down on towns" such as 10 elephants rushing in, or the trader and shaman to leave for a short time.|
uber ghosts can also reward villages that "donate" a nice amount by sending prizes and so on to the shamans, anyone in the same block as a shaman will be told:|
"the shaman bows his head and hands you __________ because the village has pleased the gods"|
and so on... ghosts can be impeached by ghosts and villages combined, players go to a shaman and click the button "i dont like our ruler" -or- "i like our ruler" and ghosts do the same while in the "necropolis"
players can only vote once every election and impeachment and ghost political power lasts for 3 months at most. on the last day of said impeachment, any players (regardless of where they are) are shown buttons saying "keep our ruler" or "dont keep our ruler" impeachments can be started if several players (50) complain that the ruler is bad by clicking the button "i dont likee our ruler" at thee shaman or necropolis, these players have already voted if the impeachment starts

'''Comments:'''
*I'm having a similar reaction to this as I did to the Mountain Men. You're not proposing a new class; you're proposing a new faction. I see a whole lot of suggestions, all quite complitcated and required to fit together in some intricate network that will ''supposedly'' improve gameplay for everyone. Really, what I see it doing, though, is adding a new faction to a game that has yet to grow into its two-faction system. Ghosts are supposed to be scary and all (and there's a skill that lets you scare people), but now they're attacking people? I think that, if anything, the first new ghost-related thing that should be added is a shaman-only skill for bringing back the dead.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 06:59, 28 March 2006 (BST)

**I agree that this is far too complicated, but I don't think reviving should be shaman-only. That gives the natives a big fat advantage. It'd be fine if it was open to the Outsiders as well (probably as a scientist skill: Scientists have basically the same skill tree as the Shaman, including the rest of the spirit skills that are already in).

----

Suggestions:Skills

2006-08-27T00:16:14Z

Arminius: /* Melee buffs for intoxicated pirates */

{{Suggestions header|page_type=Skill}}

==Skills==

===Planting/agriculture===
Both outsiders and natives with this skill should be able to plant trees (mango, banana) on fertile land. By clearing away jungle, and applying an example of the fruit of the tree you wish to plant, you could sow the seed. A tree of that type would then sprout X days later. This would open up for plantation, and help feed the villages/settlements. --[[User:DKChannelboredom|DKChannelboredom]] (2 March)

''Comments''
:Interesting idea, perhaps only a chance that a tree will grow, and to ensure a tree grows you have to plant a certain number of fruit of the same kind on the same block. Of course, does this mean that existing trees should occasionally die off, say if they get surrounded by 8 blocks of highest density jungle and the tree block is also highest density jungle.. maybe explained as something to do with lack of sunlight reaching the tree because of the amount of jungle around it. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 09:47, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
::Why not treat existing trees and planted trees separately? My initial thought is that if I did not have this skill, I would still like the opportunity to gather resources from a dependable source. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
----

=== Weapon Skills ===
The Warrior/Soldiers class should get weapon skills, like spear skills for the warrior and rifle skills for the soldier, make the soldiers skills make the rifle have better to hit then the natives spear but the rifle requires the searching of ammo, this makes the difference between natives and outsiders warrior classes more than the blowpipe and rifle (blowpipes do 1 less damage) EDIT: I ahnotice that the outsiders do indeed have rifle training, freshly added to the wiki I guess.-- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 11:07, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''

We have been doing some research(see the talk page in character classes) and it appears that warriors are no better at fighting(unless you count 10 extra hp as being really great) than any other class, correct me if I'm wrong but if there is no warrior only fighting skill what makes them warriors and not shamans w/ blowpipes(pardon the pun but they "blow") and +10hp? and if that is all they are how come soilders get extra skills? -- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 02:55, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

Also, if you've got a machete and the three melee skills, there's never any point in using a blowpipe (unless you've got 1AP left and a victim with only 4HP remaining). There should be a skill that increases the chances of hitting with a blowpipe, to at least 30% - especially since you have to search for darts. Viveca Lindfors, 6 March 2006, 17:25 GMT

It should be over 30% as even at that it still makes blowpipes worse than the heavy sword(which while apparently being really rare itdoesn't mean everybody can't search and find one and 5 dam 45%[2.25 dam/ap] outclasses even 4 dam, search ammo, 2ap per shot, 80%![approaxamitly 1.6 dam/ap not counting search ap] anyday, hell the heavy sword is the uberest weapon in the game![the rifle is 5 dam, 1.5 ap/shot,60%=2dam/ap not counting searching!]) I think you should at least be able to make them have the same to hit as the rifle, It would be balanced by the fact you can only load a single dart at a time(i think),they have lower damage, but you can find darts in more places (check the regular search odds page you'll see they were found in d10 jungle!) I could see this fact alone justify the lower damage and single shot load, but not the lower to hit chance. Unless of course poison darts actually poison(has anybody checked this out?) then I see why they have a low to hit, you can dart somebody, run away then they would die trying to find you, But even if they do poison, outsiders can use them too(with a skill) so I still believe native warriors should be more effective at darting then any other class to balance the superiority of rifles.But all in all problems are solved if blowpipes get some skills to raise to hit% and the heavy sword is removed for being too uber(just cause it is rare doesn't mean we all can't/won't find it!) --[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 23:09, 9 March 2006 (GMT)

Maybe there can be a skill to create blowpipe darts (with poison berries or snakes)
----

=== Religious Devotion ===
Required to use "Holy Scriptures" --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
----

=== Jungle Skills ===
The jungle environment has great potential to add significant dynamic to this game. These could be a set of skills to reflect this.
: Jungle Lore: Player has x% chance of discovering item/artifact. Might work in conjunction with search skill.
: Make/Detect Traps: Spikes, Pits etc... Not sure this is possible and what would be need to time degrade this.[[User:Nankilstlas|Nankilstlas]]
: Some kind of "hiding" skill where you can spend AP to conceal yourself in fauna, so you can't be seen by passersby. Visually, it could take the form of "reforesting" a block to dark green, and someone who chops through would "uncover" you, perhaps getting some XP? --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 19:34, 25 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
:: A 'trapping' skill looks like it would be exploited by greifers (surrounding someone with traps, for example), but I like the 'Hiding' and 'Jungle Lore' ideas.--[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 02:26, 26 February 2006 (GMT)
:: The hiding skill shouldn't conceal you from animals or someone with the Sixth Sense, Exploration, or Jungle Lore skills, otherwise the player would be invincible.--[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 21:15, 27 February 2006 (GMT)
:::Agreed, hostile animals should be able to sniff out hidden players, and Sixth Sense makes sense as well. Hidden players have to remain motionless to stay hidden, using items, searching, etc, would "unhide" the person. I was also thinking how the "reforesting" aspect could be abused to create vast areas that needed to be chopped down, so maybe a player could only hide in an already dark green area, (getting a message like ''there is not enough foliage to suitable hide in'' when trying in a cleared area) limiting its effect somewhat, and creating a little extra tension when on the run from someone and trying to find an overgrown area to hide in. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 22:37, 27 February 2006 (GMT)
:::: I like the hiding skill, maybe with different AP required depending on jungle density. Also, first hidden could make you invisible from 2 squares away, while hiding further would hide you from any adjacent square, and a third hide would keep you hidden on the same square unless they chopped. --[[User:Qberry|Qberry]] 3/29/06
::::like the hiding thing as well, maybe it could work in that if you use it then you are only visible if they are in the same square as you? it would certainly keep you quite hidden anyway. -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 15:42, 28 March 2006 (BST)
:i think jungle skills could be great as class specific skills, so that only some of the classes can use them like perhaps explorers. Or maybe they could made to favor native classes (due their affinity for the land and what not) more so than the outsiders, thus making gameplay more interesting.--[[User:A for anarchy|A for anarchy]] 04:19, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

----

=== Skinning ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill addition|
suggest_scope=All classes|
suggest_description=This is a skill that does not have a pre-requisite. Upon coming across an area where a dead animal is present, the player is given an opportunity to skin the animal. The process of skinning costs 1 AP and has a chance of producing items such as '''Animal Hide''' or '''Animal Tooth''' or '''Animal Feathers'''. These items can be traded to an NPC found in villages and exchanged for Gold Coins. This skill should be available to all classes to grant them all with an equal opportunity of earning Gold.
* Extend skinning to killed players? No, that's just wrong. We are civilized.
* Make skinning have a pre-requisite of '''Exploration'''? Perhaps.
* Make skinning always produce an item, rather than chance? No, I like a good challenge.
* Perhaps it could be tied to the Meat suggestion? Possibly.|
suggest_time=21:48, 23 February 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

* Good idea, perhaps natives don't have a pre-requisite, but outsiders need exploration? *cough* --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 02:12, 26 February 2006 (GMT)
** While that may be a more realistic way to handle it - since natives would conceivably be more experienced with such matters - I think that changing the skill tree for such a minor skill would upset the general sense of game balance between the two sides. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 02:43, 26 February 2006 (GMT)

}}

=== Animal Spirit ===
(native only) Upon gaining this skill, an animal type is associated with the player. Any attacks by the player on that animal result in negative xp, but the animal is less likely to attack the player. Additionally, if the player dons the skin of the animal (perhaps via the Skinning skill) then a bonus is given to the player, such as faster movement, hit bonus, damage bonus. Bonus could be dependant on animal. Upon player death, there is a chance the player's animal spirit will change. --frisco

''Comments''
*Suggestions like this usually make me cringe. Can't really explain why. Could you elaborate, though, on the bonuses gained?--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 17:06, 3 May 2006 (BST)
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=== Build Training ===
(Outsiders only) They gain the ability to build walls around the outsider settlements. There would be different levels like reinforced, light, massive, etc. Whoever can attack them and destroy them. Maybe there would be a skill for building gates? --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:33, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* Natives should be able to make walls too - think King Kong, plus if there are native ruins on this island, then they must still have some decent construction knowledge lingering around. However, Outsiders should have an "Advanced" skill that allows for stronger walls. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 04:41, 1 March 2006 (GMT)
:Yes, any human should be able to build, and they should ONLY be able to build in certain areas, so as not to have some group lay claim to a section of the island with key resources (assuming there are some). Also, it should take a LOT of AP. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:18, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
* If this is implemented, would there be holes/platforms to fire from? If so, there would need to be an alteration in rifles and blowguns, as those can be fired from said platforms, or they can be fired at defenders on said platforms. Initially, at least, it would be probably be best if the stockades acted like UD barricades. Those inside can't fire without going outside, but are safe until those outside break down the barricades. --[[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]] 12:41, 11 July 2006 (GMT)
----

=== Trap Laying ===
(Native only) They can place one time use traps that dmg outsiders only. This skill can only be used in the jungle. Maybe a skill to be able to detect traps? --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:36, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* Again i'm thinking Outsiders could make traps too - some of them must have been hunters in the Old Country - but perhaps an Advanced skill for natives, leading to higher success rate, since they are more used to the environment. This skill seems dangerous, though, possibly leading to clans just laying traps in every single square of jungle, making it ridiculous for the other side. Perhaps a trap can only be made in certain jungle types, and only lasts until the jungle changes in level (either growing up naturally or down by the same character type chopping it). --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 04:53, 1 March 2006 (GMT)
:This was already proposed in the "jungle skills" section. I agree, it seem too easy to abuse by griefers.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:18, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
----

===Comment Cartography===
Applies to Natives & Outsiders, most likely best applied only to the classes, scouts & explorers. I am thinking that it would be great to get more out of the map. This skill would allow those who have it to be able to add a limited number of short comments to their maps. These comments could work as references so as to be able to use the map to help find points of interest at some other time. I could see this probably difficult to implement, but perhaps it could work in that one could click in a quadrant on the map which would reload the page and allow you to add a text comment / description to a form. This text comment on a save would place a reference number on that quadrant of the map and the text would be listed to the right or below the map with accompanying reference number. -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 17:05, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
*This is a great idea, I am not an explorer/scout but I am all for class-specific skills, that are in character, because as of right now there aren't too many differences(which I'm guessing will change.-- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]]00:37, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

*I think this is a great idea too, and very much the way a real cartogragher would operate, making small notations as they explored and surveyed.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:49, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

*I've been spoiled by the GPS and haven't really found myself lost enough to need this skill. However, with the random revival change I can imagine that getting lost in the jungle is becoming frequently more common for new players. I had a difficult time accepting the point-and-click location feature. I'm not sure how that could be handled simply. I also considered allowing the player to input X and Y coordinates directly, but that seemed out of character for Natives. One possibility that I settled on was a simple "Add Location" button on map.cgi to document the current location. It would change that map.cgi square to a different color and prompt the player to input a description. Ten location points with unique colors and descriptions will be listed under the map to serve as a key. You could either make this listing a queue (pushing out the oldest entries) or locked at 10 until one of the locations are deleted by the player. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 09:01, 11 May 2006 (BST)
----

=== Revive skill ===
Applies to doctors and shamans, a skill to revive spirits, would require Sixth sense (obviously). It is simple enough premis: a skill that revives dead players similar to the regular shamans instead of requiring them to go to town shamans, the revive players aren't as skilled at the craft so the revived players would have only 80% of there hp when revived by other players. --[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 00:43, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* Does raise a risk of multi-abuse, but I agree that player shamen should have this ability. Maybe it requires a special powder or item in order to do?--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:49, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
* I am trying to think of some cost right now but can't decide. I do know that the xp gain rate should be comparable to fighting(and healing when there are more players) so players will want to be a revive player. --[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 01:41, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
*I don't like the idea of Doctors getting the ability to revive the dead, but that's definitely within the rights of a shaman. Sixth Sense as a requirement, and you must be standing in the same area as a spirit. Give either a 100% chance to work and a relatively high AP cost (10?) or a lower chance to work and lower AP cost. Blam. There you go. Player shamans can now do their part.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:18, 28 March 2006 (BST)
*Haven't been around in a bit..... anyways I was just thinking that it seems mighty easy to get levels by "camping" the "enemy" shamen and getting hordes of xp and tonnes of native/outsider kills this seems like an exploit of the current system of revives. If a player aided revive method is put into place the main shamans should be removed, or you can only be revived by your home shaman by the call shaman(or whatever it is called) button to prevent this xp farming. I thought of this because my level 3 pirate has got all his xp from doing this and it is mighty easy and with the Ubermap and stuff it is even easyer to do, though pirates will need a way to get revived by there own.....lol I just realized I put doctor instead of scientist doctor=scientist - [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 02:51, 4 April 2006 (BST)
----

===Polymorph===
Requires Animal Spirit. Allows character to take the form of an animal. Perhaps one skill per animal, and each transform requires the use of an (AP expensive) animal mask. Upon transforming, people around you cannot tell it is you. If you die as an animal, you turn back to human, having lost half the HP the animal lost. To allow polymorph for outsiders, maybe a skill like "Ancient Reading" with the presumption that this allows them to read the right glyphs in the ruins would give them the ability to learn this skill. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 03:52, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* I like the idea of having some kind of weird supernatural kind of skill for the natives... But, I think that if you get killed while in animal form, you should be dead and have to seek the assistance of a shaman. Because all the natives would do when logging out is morph into an elephant. That's a boat load of HP for someone to whittle down and kill, only to have the human pop out and have to be hacked away at. Granted, nobody will KNOW outright that the person has assumed the guise of an animal. Would you propose that if someone "kills" the animal form they get the XP bonus of killing an animal? -- [[User:Schmeckel|Schmeckel]] 06:09, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
*Special masks that turn you into animals? They'd need to be quite hard to make, maybe special wood from a certain type of tree, a bit of the animal and something to stick it together. It'd have to be harder to get the ones for better animals. [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 12:19, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
----

===Will o' the Wisp===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill addition|
suggest_scope=Spirits (all classes)|
suggest_description=Will o' the Wisp (can't think of another name) is a potentially simple skill to give a little more incentive to play as a spirit for a bit. It is a sub-skill of '''Ghostly whisper'''. If a player possesses this skill, then as a spirit they will have an option to "Wisp" for 30 AP. Wisping operates on a similar mechanic as the Flare guns and Feeding groans in Urban Dead. Any players posessing '''Sixth Sense''' within a 5x5 range of the spirit will be informed: ''A faint flicker of light catches your eye (x blocks east/west), (y blocks north/south). (timestamp)''.

This skill also has the potential to stack. More spirits on the same square will produce a brighter effect. Possibly in base 5. Ranging from faint flicker, slight illumination, to brilliant flash.

Fixes that I made last minute: reduced the Wisp range and upped the Wisp cost in an attempt to reduce spamming, also making Sixth Sense a prerequisite for recognizing Wisps as it would otherwise nerf the skill to a degree.|
suggest_time=07:53, 25 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

* I like it. The AP cost might be a bit on the high side, but there may be other alternatives to reduce spamming. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 10:44, 25 March 2006 (GMT)
* What's the point of it? Or is there something I'm missing? I mean, is it just to light up for kicks? Wll o' the Wisps in folklore always attempted to lead travellers into dangerous parts of bogs, where they would find their doom. Since that isn't really an option (and since people, noticing this, would just stop paying attention to them), is there any practical use for this? Still neat, if there isn't, but better if there is.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:25, 28 March 2006 (BST)
** As a Shaman with Sixth Sense, I've only come across 1 spirit. I sought a means to encourage the realm of the living and the dead to interact more. It is admitedly mostly aimed towards flavor and roleplaying than mechanics. The most practical application would be to attract people to revive points (in the possibility that they are created). In retrospect, I now see that this suggestion overlaps with the '''Haunting Scream''' description to a fair degree. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:33, 28 March 2006 (BST)
::* Does it overlap? I haven't seen a Haunting Scream in action, yet. I'm all for flavor and RP skills, I just doubt that people woud bother with them too often without some mechanical benefit, which would be a shame. I'll admit, though, that I hadn't thought of attracting shamans to get yourself revived.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 06:48, 29 March 2006 (BST)

}}

===Construction===
construction points, would be implemented and would act like exp, but players earn it by setting up camp, ex: 5exp everytime a player sets up his/her cabin, costs 10ap to set up, to keep from spamming and getting free exp.
*'''construction'''allow players to build 1(one) single hut per GAME that is collapsable, non collapsable, players out in the jungle would have to cut down the jungle to re-construct the hut
this would give players a reason to stay out in the jungle,

simply what it says, first off, we could/should have different buildings because i find it annoying to have to look around at the same picture not knowing where the trading post is. im implying that new icons be put in for huts, like the pirate ship, have different pictures, ex:
there is an armory hut, it's icon would be a hut with a silver tip/ sword on the roof
and etc...

SKILLS:
*'''hut maitenance'''
can change hut 1(one) time into another kind of hut ex: armory hut, extra chance of finding wpns etc
**'''cupboard''' accesible inventory in hut that players can "lock" and recieve a "key" item, other players could break open the "lock" for x amount of AP
*'''bed''' players in hut are shown the "get into bed" option which heals 2 hp every hour they arent logged in
**'''fluffy bed''' heals and extra 1-2 hp
*'''running water'''
if the hut is within x amount of squares to water, they can refill gourds and bottles (i think someone suggested we keep empty bottles, this would require that to be implemented)
*'''fire-pit''' players can cook meat (as suggested, only used if implemented)
*'''craftmanship'''players can see the hut's creator, ex: Richard's Hut, if skill isnt aquired, players see the hut as "dishevelled hut" or "ragged hut" etc.
*'''hut upgrade 1''' hut is given one extra ring of squares
**'''hut upgrade 2''' hut is given extra floor
***'''hut upgrade 3''' hut second floor is enlarged, door locks are given
****'''hut upgrade 4''' hut is given a basement

the use of hut upgrades is to help people hide, when upgrade 3 is given, and locks are attained, players can "lock" their houses up, requiring a devastating amount of AP to open, suggesting around 60-70 AP

*'''house trap 1''' spike trap, inflicts 1 wound
**'''house trap 2''' heavy spike trap, 1 wound and 3 dmg
*'''house trap 3''' blast trap, 7 hp
**'''house trap 4''' heavy blast trap 14 hp

traps are triggered upon breaking into a house, players can attain a new skill:
*'''lockpick''' breaking in only costs 30 AP
with this skill, traps are disabled

*'''animal cage'''
if animal trapping were implemented, then this would keep them from running away when u died,
**'''animal care''' animal care section of the house, determining your pet's status ex:
Richard clicks the button "give pet food" mr whiskers smiles and gobbles it up. it could also just be flavor text, and a way to get rid of meat.
*'''attack animal'''
player buys skill animal now acts like trap, player types in names of people allowed to be in house, anyone not on the list is attacked by animal, animal is treated as "wild" to intruders, as per, it will follow them several blocks away from the house before returning, and can be killed, but is also agressive no matter what breed. ex: mr.parrot attack john doe for 2 dammage and returns home.
**'''rabidity''' animal is now "rabid" and has a 20% chance of "infecting" (wound) the intruding player

other tidings can be added, ex:
*'''taxidermy''' players can pick up dead bodies and mount them in their house ex:
in the second story of richard's hut is a grey elephant head, mounted on oak

my finale,
*'''garden''' allows players to plant a tree/ bush 1 square away from their house, planting requires, 5 of the said fruit and the plants disappear when the hut is packed up, players also have the ability to "kill" the plant and re-grow a different one.
**'''green thumb''' allows players to garden for only 3 fruits
**'''verdant thumb''' allows players to change to growths around their house, ex: a house surrounded by dirt can be changed to light undergrouwth or heavy forest
**'''spade''' allows player to dig a "cellar" 1-3 squares away from house to "hide" or store items.
skill also allows players to loacte any tunnels within 5X5 of the checked area. players can only check within a 3X3 area around the house

house experience does not raise everytime a skill is bought, but the price is set at 100-200 (your choice)

"comments Below"

Sounds like it would be a good idea if the island was bigger but otherwise a 3x3 would be gigantic if everyone had one--[[User:Slith|Slith]] 21:40, 29 March 2006 (BST)
*not really, but the huts are still the same single square size on the outside, it is the inside that changes. --[[User:Richard Rose|Richard Rose]]

I think it would be better to implement this skill while implementing clans - i.e. having clan camps. One way to implement this would be to establish camp/ a hut automatically when a certain number of players from a given clan stand on a single square. This would reward organization and prevent individual players from spamming. In addition, I think that having all those additions as skills is unnessacary. I just adds uneeded complexity. Again, clan based operation seems to be the best way to do this.--[[User:Gandhi|Gandhi]] 00:47, 31 March 2006 (BST)
----

===Plunder===
{{suggestion|
suggest_time=07:15, 30 March 2006 (BST)|
suggest_type=Skill|
suggest_scope=Pirates|
suggest_description=So. Pirates have been added, at long last. We all love pirates. They're swarthy, greedy people. Like mobsters, only with eyepatches, bandanas, peg legs, parrots, and the clap. There's something lacking in the pirates on Shartak, though. To get a better idea of this, let's look at the check list.

[x] 1. Pirate ship

[x] 2. Swarthy attitude

[x] 3. Pirate lingo

[x] 4. Murder

[ ] 5. Plunder

Aha! So we've identified the problem: a distinct lack of plunder. For this reason, I've come up with the idea for a plunderin' skill. Now, when you kill some poor sap, you take one coin out of his inventory per level--his level, that is. This keeps it a little balanced, in that you won't be taking away the life savings of some poor little level 1 when you kil him. Unless he happens to have only 1 coin, but that's neither here nor there. Now, of course, if you kill a level 5 who only has 4 coins, you'll only get those 4 coins. If he has 6 coins, however, you'll only get 5 of them.

Is it overpowering pirates to give them this class-restricted skill? Not really. I mean, despite being a combat class, they can't really get any good with rifles. Pretty much all of their kills are made with a cutlass. And what's the real usage of the gold coins? Typically, to buy ammunition. Obviously, the pirates won't be using it on that, as they're terrible shots. They'll just buy themselves some medical supplies, some back-up weapons, and hoard the rest. I can't say I know that many players who hold onto the coins, anyways, though I'm sure there must be some. Still, they generally tend to be spent pretty quickly. Really, I just think that this could lend pirates a little more depth; sure, they're fellow outsiders, but can you trust them? How quickly will they cut your throat for you wallet?

So... Thoughts? Agreement? Death threats?|
suggest_author=[[User:Wifey|Wifey]]|
suggest_comments=

*'''Keep/Change''' (Yarr) I agree that this fits with theme and perhaps rightfully rewards Pirates in that they do not have a Trader NPC at the shipwreck (at least that was the case when I left it several days ago). And I'm glad that this is being presented as a purchasable skill (I believe?) rather than an inherent one. I do generally follow one of the basic tenets of UD - "Don't <del>Tread On Me</del> Mess With My Inventory!" But gold appears to have become fairly plentiful with the Trader NPC; having more gold than your current level is a fairly easy feat and losing gold won't lead to an entirely unpleasant gaming experience. However, I would like a few more mechanics set in place to minimize the avenues to zerging, griefing, and general abuse that this suggestion would open up. The only simple amendment I can think of may be to give '''Plunder''' a percent chance of success. Perhaps allowing for degrees of advanced plundering skills. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 20:07, 30 March 2006 (BST)
**'''RE:''' A very good point. Very good points from both of you. I had thought of a % chance when I was originally writing the suggestion, but I realized that the nwe'd be dealing with an X% chance to get Y% of the other player's coins, and I thought it might be a little more work on the server than necessary. I thought, perhaps a chence of getting only 1 coin, but that seemed just silly. Perhaps we could limit the pirate to only 1 plunder per day (or maybe a few more, if people feel that 1 is too few)? For example, if you killed John Smith the level 1 Explorer and took 1 coin from him, then killed Mr. Moneybags the level 16 with more coins than you can shake a stick at, you would get no coins from him. If you were to wait a day, though, and kill Mr. Moneybags ''then'', you would get 16 coins--and no more from anyone else for the rest of the day. Additionally, you would not be able ot get money from the same person twice in a row. So if, after killing Mr. Moneybags and taking half of his coins, you killed him the next day, you would get none. You might as well have gone for poor little John Smith. That eliminates griefing, and all it would need to do is keep track of the ID of the last person you killed, checking it the next time you kill someone 24+ hours later..--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 23:29, 30 March 2006 (BST)
*i agree with both of them, and with you, id love to see this flavor added, and the trader NPC at the pirate camp has yet to be found, so they would have to go to another village to use it. the closest village (where my pirate is) is dalpok, which, is, as you know native. this hostility would mean pirates would REALLY have to work to hoard medical supplies and weapons, thusly this would be well balanced. i also want to discuss the % success rate. as pirates are VERY good at "plundering" the % chance success rate should start at a reasonably high %, such as 50% and above. as putting it any lower would simply be ridiculous. there could be several level ups to raise the % but if there are no advanced levels then i suggest putting the starting % at around 75%. --[[User:Richard Rose|Richard Rose]]

*'''Plunder''' could be made a search skill (concievably the second skill in the plunder grouping). Rather than having it be merely equivalent to scavenging the plunder skill could only be used in villages (it wouldn't matter if they were native or outsider villages). Scavenging could similarly be changed to a jungle-only skill. Repeatedly plundering a square would deplete it much like chopping down a square of jungle, and squares would replenish over time much the same way. Whether this affects the search odds for other players is open to debate. I'd hate for the pirate class to be burning every other class in the game by plundering all the villages to the point nobody could find a rifle. The odds of finding a broken item should increase while plundering. The more refined the item the greater the chance it would be broken when a pirate plunders it (GPS, first aid kits, rifles, dart guns and any other delicate manufactured items to come being more likely to be broken). It would give people on the island something to do other than filling out the map and hunting game. Since we could then expect groups of pirates moving from village to village it would also increase player interaction (violently or otherwise). Having a wider range of broken items could necessitate a repair skill for players or a similar service that could be provided by a trader adding another level to the game's economy. -[http://www.shartak.com/profile.cgi?id=242 Tyler Whitney]

*With the new "stuff breaks/crit hit" along with traders gold has a major use, instead of searching for that cutlass(or machete both break) you can go trade your hard earned gold coins for a weapon, why stop at just coins? pirates could get this skill and should just take away 1 random item (any item) plus a few gold coins, as we all know pirates didn't just take gold they took anything of value. Though level ones should be completly immune to this and the maximum value of the item you take(based on how many gold coins it takes to trade for the item) should be equal to there level, or some other method all I know is items should get stolen along with coins, you can only get killed once (as of right now) before going back to a village so it doesn't do too much, I mean 1 item? even if it was my machete(whom I call Mary) I wouldn't mind, sure my ghost would scream and haunt the bastard who took her away from me that would just add a new level of fun to the game. As a native(with a pirate alt) I support this skill, though it would entail a new top ten richest in the statistics page so the pirates would know who to hunt.... mwahaha -[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 03:09, 4 April 2006 (BST)
**Now there's an interesting idea. Perhaps, though, there should then be a hierarchy of items in the eyes of a pirate? For instance, you take 1 item (which might be a gold coin) and one gold coin on the side. The gold coins on the side would increase with one's level. What would the item be, though? Probably first would be a gem. They're shiny and valuable--a pirate's favorite words (aside from "Arrrr!")! Next? A gold coin. Not enough coins? Probably a cutlass or machete. None of those? Rifle. No? Rifle bullet, then. None of those, either? Probably go with a first aid kit. Ah, but those are out, too? Bottle of water. And so on down the list. Bottle of water -> bottle of rum -> gourd of water/banana/berries -> knife/dagger. I doubt a pirate would bother with a blowgun or darts, nor would he yearn for his enemies' driftwood. Once again, just throwing an idea out, though.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 06:28, 4 April 2006 (BST)
*** To a Pirate, Rum would be more interesting than Water...[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 11:40, 28 May 2006 (BST)
**I think plundering items crosses into making this skill much to powerful. It lessens the need for the Pirate class to spend AP searching. They may lose a cutlass or two choppping another player to bits, but then they earn a machete in the kill and can continue on their way. Gold coins can be argued to be powerful, but the lack of a Trader at the shipwreck means they have to make their way to other Villages in order to spend them. After some further thinking, I feel that there should be a plundering cap of 10 coins regardless of level (otherwise it would be unfair to classes with class-specific skills that make them a higher level than others). And it is random chance after the kill produces no coins or some coins or all coins. If the player doesn't have enough coins, the Pirate plunders what he can and is given extra flavor text to reward them on their evil little victory. "Yo ho ho! You have taken all (Player)'s booty." --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 07:00, 4 April 2006 (BST)

*Plunder sounds nice. How about this formula: a pirate's chance of plundering someone equals 4 times the pirate's level minus 2 times the victim's level and always returns the lesser of half the victim's level in gold (rounded down) or all the victim's gold. In other words, if a level 10 pirate plunders a level 1 scientist with 10 gold, the pirate has a 38% chance of getting 0 gold, and if a level 10 pirate plunders a level 13 warrior with 2 gold, the pirate has a 14% chance of getting 2 gold. This simulates higher level non-pirates being more adept at hiding coin purses on their body, and prevents griefing on newbies. I agree with above comments that plunder should be a one time immediate event upon killing a character, based on a percentage chance, and limited to gold - anything else makes the skill too complex and/or powerful. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 13:39, 4 April 2006 (BST)
*I wouldn't support this unless pirates could be plundered ''from'', too, which kind of defeats the point. It's not like pirates are a weak class; the shipwreck has a trader now, and they start with 65 HP. I really like being able to count on having a static inventory while I'm logged out, and I think "Yarr, a pirate has killed you and plundered 1 gold coin" would get old very fast. I think it'd be quite cool if pirates were healed by 1 HP more for drinking beer or rum, but taking gold from their kills is too much. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 16:42, 28 May 2006 (BST)
*Yarr and Keep. I say this is a good addition. I believe all the classes should have some skill specific to them. I have a pirate and a scientist, and neither of them have anywhere special go to in terms of skills, thus making the distinction of them being scientists and pirates useless. Especially the scientist... 10 gold coins? What the? --[[User:Rip Purr|Rip Purr]] 10:53, 30 May 2006 (BST)
*Would it damage game balance much to have the pirate gain gold as described, but ''without'' taking gold from the victim? That way we have the benefits of the skill, without the annoyance of losing your gold. And it wouldnt be an easier way to get money than searching in huts, so it shouldnt unbalance the game too much. --Gitboy 17:26, 3 July 2006
*I like the idea of plunder, and given that pirates don’t have class specific skill it would only be fitting to have it as our first. Rather then trying to create overly complicated system for plunder we should just follow in the tradition of final fantasy more specifically making plunder into a 3 level skill much in the vain of steal (a small chance of taking a random item from opponent’s inventory (maybe 5%)) rob (a greater of chance than the above (10%)) and finally mug (the same chance rating as “rob” with the addition of damage if successful(something like 2 or 3).--[[User:A for anarchy|A for anarchy]] 04:13, 22 July 2006 (UTC)


}}

===Diagnosis===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill addition, class-specific|
suggest_scope=Shaman and Scientist|
suggest_description=This is an attempt to create additional variety within the classes. Diagnosis would be a sub-skill of Triage available only to the Shaman and Scientist classes. It behaves much like Triage does, but it would detect Shark Bites and other possible future maladies and status ailments. Shark Bite victims could be identified with an asterisk next to their name. 
I believe that this skill's net benefits will be minimal. It would fit with the theme of the class, while not over-powering them. I also believe that since this is a sub-skill, that there should be additional class-specific skills for Shamans and Scientist.|
suggest_time=18:21, 6 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

* If Triage truly only does reveal one person's HP then the skill tree should be expanded for Advanced Triage as well. Where Advanced Triage would display the HP of everyone in the current area - rather than just the most wounded. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:55, 29 April 2006 (BST)
* Corrected usage of Doctor. I hope that this skill can still be considered in-character for Scientists. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:11, 11 May 2006 (BST)

}}

===Alchemy===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill addition, class-specific|
suggest_scope=Scientists|
suggest_description=Allows Scientists to convert seemingly useless items (such as driftwood) into valuables such as a gold coin. Another possibility is crabs into gems (don't ask). This would, of course, cost about 25 AP per use. This would give Scientists a key role in the game because they would be needed to convert intems.|
suggest_time=23:24, 8 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

*While I like the basic idea of this, it should be limited a little. That said, I don't know how one would appropriately limit its use. Perhaps you could turn a bottle of rum into a more refreshing bottle of water? How, precisely, would you envision the implementation of this?--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:18, 10 April 2006 (BST)
*I like it! It gives us something unique to do as scientists! Would you make it so you turn a specific useless item into a specific useful item, or what?[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 15:24, 10 April 2006 (BST)
**I imagine that eventually every class will have atleast one unique skill to separate it from the others and give a reason for choosing that class. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 01:30, 11 April 2006 (BST)
*I could accept this if it was presented differently. As it stands, it sort of conflicts with my expectation that the Natives are the more mystically-inclined and the Outsiders are more advanced technologically. I just don't envision men and women of science practicing alchemy. I have no objection to the scientist manufacturing items, but not in this manner. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 03:37, 11 April 2006 (BST)

}}

===Spirit Substantiation===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill|
suggest_scope=Sprits (all classes)|
suggest_description=The spirit has learned to partially substantiate its form, becoming more physical, and can now float on the winds to move at double the normal rate (i.e. .5 AP per move), but only in the direction that the wind is blowing. Note that this requires the game element of wind, which can either be a uni-directional constant (e.g. always blows west) or changes over time (perhaps dependant on location?). If wind direction changes, the game's user interface will need a mechanism to display wind direction, either via game.cgi or added to map.html.

This could be the first in a series of new spirit skills. I see the aforementioned Will o' the Wisp being under this tree, as well as another skill to move .3 AP per move but still only in the direction of the wind. Perhaps some poltergeist type skills can be added as well - allow dead pirates to plunder, any spirit to write messages, any spirit to still map out the area, etc, etc.
|
suggest_time=16:40, 14 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Frisco|Frisco]]|
suggest_comments=

* Nice idea, what would happen to moving against the wind? Would that then require 2AP and 1 AP to move at 90 degrees to the wind direction :) --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 17:33, 14 April 2006 (BST)
** I was thinking of substantiation as being a conceptual (not a user toggle switch, something the game system automatically determines) on/off capability of the ghost, so the ghost could have no form and thus no penalty for moving into the wind, then take form and move with the wind. But that's mostly because i don't like the idea of skills that negatively affect a character. I definitely think wind should adversely affect other things, like pigeons taking longer to deliver if the recipient is upwind. It's all more math for you! --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 17:49, 14 April 2006 (BST)

}}

===Marksmanship===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill modification and new skill|
suggest_scope=Anyone who uses a ranged weapon|
suggest_description=A few problems that I see with regard to rifle use: 1) Non-soldiers' extremely low maximum rifle accuracy making rifles useless to non-soldiers, 2) Loading rifles takes up a tremendous amount of AP since it costs one AP to load one bullet, leading to a very low damage-to-total-AP-spent ratio, 3) A closely related problem to #2 is the fact that people are carrying around 20 or 30 rifles/blowpipes, which is ridiculous and unrealistic, and a by-product of the AP cost to load. I dont know if the following idea for a solution to both of these problems can realisitically be implemented, but here goes: Change the Advanced Rifle Training skill to make loading rifle bullets cost 0 AP (advanced training would thus mean the abiliy to load rifles very easily and quickly, as opposed to untrained people who take much longer. We are in the time period when it took a long time to load rifles after all). Institute a new skill called Marksmanship in the firearms skill tree, which gives +__% rifle accuracy <s>(I would say +30%). Let marksmanship be a skill that can be acquired by anyone, while rifle training and advanced rifle training remain soldier-exlcusive. If Marksmanship gives +30%, it will improve non-soldiers' maximum accuracy from 20% to 50%, knocking out problem #1 above. Soldiers with the entire proposed rifle skill tree would have max accuracy of 70% and would not have to waste an AP to load, knocking out problem #2. Natives would get the same changes for blowpipe
note: It might be better to have two skills, Marksmanship and Expert Marksmaship, each giving +15% accuracy, and possibly make these two a seperate skill tree. If they were in the rifle training tree, they would have to come after the two rifle training skills, but non-soldiers cannot get rifle training, so it would look awkward.</s>

'''NOTE: [[User_talk:Arminius#Proposal_for_new_rifle_skill_tree|Revised proposal and statistical analysis of current vs. proposed damage-to-AP ratios, click here]]'''|
suggest_time=05:34, 13 May 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Arminius|Arminius]]|
suggest_comments=

*From a gameplay point of view, i don't see that guns/blowpipes need to be any stronger. It's already possible to take someone out in one go, why the need to kill quicker? The proposed change means with one gun and a full load of bullets, one soldier in one day causes an average of 75 * .7 * 4 = 210 HP damage - that's 2.4 pirates with stamina, or 4.2 beginner shamans. It would make the game a lot less fun to be able to die that much quicker and that much more often. Maybe i wouldn't object as much if these old school guns were also subject to backfiring, causing them to blow up in the owner's hands and resulting in owner HP loss and gun destruction (similar to machete/cutlass blade snapping). By the way, elsewhere there's been debate on the timeperiod of the game since we also have GPS units. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 20:00, 13 May 2006 (BST)
::You are calculating ''combat'' damage-to-AP ratio, the proposed modification of the advanced rifle training skill would not affect combat-damage-to-AP ratio very much (it would affect it not at all for people with lots of rifles), it would only affect the rifle's currently very low total overall damage-inflicted-to-AP-spent ratio. (With 28 fully-loaded rifles a soldier can already kill two 85-HP pirates in only 56 AP.) The rifle's total-damage-to-AP ratio today is 0.48 by my calculation, the machete's is 1.35. With the proposed changes, the maximum total-damage-to-AP ratio for a rifle-wielding soldier would be 0.7 (still far lower than machete). Non-soldiers max rifle total damage-to-AP ratio would improve from 0.16 (weaker than a level 0 character with a blunt machete) to 0.4. I like your suggestion of rifles possibly blowing up too, Simon should definitely consider that. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 20:28, 13 May 2006 (BST)

*I'm not sure how I feel about the skill yet, but I will correct you, Frisco, in that the GPS unit is not an adequate argument about the game's time period. Simon has already said that he doesn't like the name "GPS Unit" because it is anachronistic, and was considering another one.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:03, 14 May 2006 (BST)

* I don't quite see why rebuilding the skill tree is necessary. You could accomplish the same thing by introducing two new skills - one for accuracy which builds upon the existing accuracy skills and one for reloading. Make the first accuracy skill available to all classes (adjusting to 30%), but restrict the secondary accuracy skills to Warriors and Soldiers. But even then, I'm not completely sold on the fact that these skills are necessary. I have no problem with my non-Soldier not depending on a rifle. If I wanted to use a rifle, I can easily make a Soldier character. And while reducing reloading cost might bring rifles and blowpipes more evenly with machetes, increasing the damage or introducing the ranged attack suggestion might solve the problem without providing free lunches. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 02:31, 15 May 2006 (BST)
::Yes of course it's fine to make them new skills. I suggested it in the way I did because learning to load quickly would fall under rifle training I would say, and we already have the two rifle-training skills in the game. One of the accuracy-improving skills would fall under Marskmanship (or marskmanship/expert marksmanship). How they are added to the game is almost immaterial, the point is to let soldiers be able to acquire a skill which gets rid of their need to waste more than half their daily AP loading their 20 rifles, and get rid of the need to carry 20+ rifles in the first place. I dont see how a skill allowing for a 0 AP cost to load is a "free lunch" at all, it just reduces the price of a ridiculously high-priced lunch, i.e. 1 AP to load 1 bullet/dart (plus I feel it improves the realism of the game, in part by eliminating the need to carry around 25 rifles or blowpipes). The point of the Marksmanship skill (available to all) is not to put non-soldiers on the par with soldiers in firearms capability at all, but to make rifles non-worthless to everyone else. Currently non-soldiers are literally far better off ''punching'' enemies than using a rifle when it comes to damage-inflicted-per-AP-spent, which is just ridiculous. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 03:37, 15 May 2006 (BST)
:::I do like the idea of making rifle and blowpipe usage more accessible to other character classes. But I continue to have a difficult time accepting the 0 AP reload cost. Currently there is no action in the game that costs 0 AP besides rejecting a trade, speaking in empty area, healing someone at full health, and dropping an item (all non-actions). Would 0.5 AP would be an acceptable change? But before it is considered, there must be other alternatives before lowering AP cost to make the ranged weapons more balanced. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:27, 27 May 2006 (BST)
::::How about this-- modify advanced rifle training skill so that instead of "Gain another 20% on firearms attacks", it says "lets soldiers load and fire faster" (0.5 AP to load and to fire with that skill), in other words a rifle version of trekking. This would cut down on the excessive AP costs of rifle usage and be an interesting skill to balance rifles rather than another "add 20% accuracy" or something like that. Then two new skills, Marksmanship (+10% accuracy), Expert Marskmanship (+20% accuracy), both of which would be available to all character classes. I would envision the two marskmanship skills as the first two skills in the firearms tree (the only two available to non-soldiers), and then the rifle training skills would come afterwards. -[[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 20:00, 30 May 2006 (BST)
:::::'''UPDATE:''' To see a revised version of my suggestion '''[[User_talk:Arminius#Proposal_for_new_rifle_skill_tree|Click Here]].''' I worked out the current and proposed damage-to-AP ratios, and I invite everyone to take a look. It is far too long and complicated to copy here, so I wrote it up elsewhere. -[[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 01:44, 2 June 2006 (BST)
:*As discussed elsewhere, ''carrying loaded rifles as backup allows you to lock in the kill bonus'' on a much wider range of (remaining-AP/remaining-victim-HP) situations. Since the '''kill bonus is more than a third of total XP for combat''', this throws the naive XP=damage comparisons way out of whack. Anecdotally at least, my Soldier has clearly done better than my other characters in jungle XP-harvesting, because kill-steals and dying while asleep are so common. So while the Rifle (and especially the Blowpipe) needs help, I think that nearly doubling combat-time damage to 2x 50% 5 damage for 1 AP (5.0) instead of 1x 60% 5 damage (3.0) is not an ideal way to proceed. I support Free Reload or Rapid Reload as a Soldier-Only Skill. I also think that an all-available accuracy upgrade for Rifle/Blowpipe (to at least better than Machete) would be great. For example: Base 20% (+General Accuracy +15%) (+Soldier-only Accuracy +15%) (+Soldier-only Accuracy +15%). Or maybe Base 10% (+General Accuracy +25%) (+Soldier-only Accuracy +25%) (+Soldier-only Rapid Reload), and increase Rifle Bullet base damage to 6. Two shots per AP just seems too big a jump to me; imho implementing true range (firing from adjacent square and/or without provoking return melee attacks) is a better way to proceed. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 03:56, 2 June 2006 (BST)
::*Yes the blowpipe needs help even more than the rifle. That limited-AP poisoning skill, along with these proposed boosts to accuracy, would even things out there. I also like the idea of making ranged weapons truly ranged, but that seems difficult to implement and perhaps impractical (for one thing we cant see the names of people on adjacent squares). If any version of QBerry's "auto attack" is ever implemented for players, though it seems unlikely with so much opposition, the "range" of the ranged weapon could come into play by not allowing a person without ranged weapons/ammo to back. This was discussed on the forums in the "Aggressive Animals" thread. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 06:01, 2 June 2006 (BST)
:*NB about Free Reload: Incidentally, Free Reload obviously solves the "realism problem" by allowing a Soldier to carry only one Rifle and a huge pile of Bullets, with '''no increase''' in Soldier combat-time damage-per-AP (still 3.0 max avg per AP) nor Soldier field-capacity damage-per-inventoryfull (still 72 shots) since 2 Bullets loose take up as much space as a Loaded Rifle. People who think that 0AP reload is imbalancing have been smoking too much of the dried herbs. As for realism of 0AP reload, the Soldier's "1AP to fire" accounts for time necessary to both reload and fire. I can discuss and reject 160 exchanges with the Trader and or attempt to heal a signpost in the same amount of time. The real-time form submission and IP hit creates a perceptible time-increment. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 03:56, 2 June 2006 (BST)

After thinking about this, it seems to me that the best thing to do is as follows: No new skill, instead simply a change in the game mechanics so that all players take 0 AP to "load" by deafult. The AP cost to fire would thereby represent the time to load and fire, as Tycho44 said above. (Load was in quotation marks there because the load button in-game would thus really represent selecting the bullet to use, the actual action of loading would be included in the 1 AP to fire). This would eliminate the 30 rifles problem straight away (and for all character classes), it would ''not'' increase the combat damage-to-AP ratio at all, and it would be an interesting way to increase the damage-to-''total''-AP-spent ratio (which we need) without having to add any new skill. As for the accuracy boosts, those can be worked out later (non-soldiers need a boost in that department we all agree, perhaps soldiers merit a slight one), but 0 AP to "load" is definitely a sound change to make, I see no argument against it. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 23:11, 3 June 2006 (BST)

The reason why I keep pressing for alternatives is because I never saw this as a solution in other browser-based games. Shouldn't the route be to increase the damage dealt to reduce the impact of the reload cost? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 18:52, 14 June 2006 (BST)

:My earlier arguments notwithstanding, I '''strongly oppose''' universal 0AP reload. A 0AP reload for everyone simply destroys the reloading game mechanism in its entirety, making the 2-bullet chamber of the rifle identical to the 1-dart chamber of the blowpipe identical to the 70-bullet drum of a hypothetical gatling gun. The blowpipe is distinguished by its Poison damage, which can in turn be offset by a Reload Penalty, if we keep that game mechanic. Keeping the reload mechanic enhances the separate-but-equal factions. In my humble and uninformed speculation, tweak up the accuracy on ranged weapons (say 20% base / 35% marksmanship-universal / 50% warrior-only / 65% advanced-warrior-only) and things will work fine. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 23:54, 17 June 2006 (BST)


}}

===Hut Construction (Simplified) ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill, item, action|
suggest_scope=Every player|
suggest_description=This is a bit similar to the Construction suggestion, but much more simplified. I agree that we should be able to set up little camps, to have bases away from bases. I'll explain the flavour aspect after I've explained the mechanics. 
A skill can be purchased called, "Construction", which allows you to erect a hut on land that has been chopped down to 0 density. The hut would have a bit of AP weight to build, say 10ap cost so that full constuction on a 10 dense jungle sq would have a total of 20ap. The hut that you build is at first a regular empty hut. Once you have bought the second skill in the set, "Stock Hut" (or something like that), the hut becomes a mini trade-post, stocking no more than 5 types of items at any one point. The first 5 items are randomized, and then as people trade, they change. Thus, it's a mixed bag of what you could get. These artificially erected huts can be sacked and destroyed. Keep in mind I'm not a coder, so if you know what I'm describing is difficult, but know how to do something similar, please say so. 
Flavour: This gives people the feeling of being able to set up their own little base camp for their own clan, without making a whole new village. The fact that each hut can only stock a small number of items, and also that it can be destoryed, means things don't get out of hand and make the original villages defunct. Each hut can also be plauged with low-demand items like crabs or mangoes, making the idea even for grifers, natives, enemies, outsiders and pirates.|
suggest_time=12:05, 3 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Rip Purr|Rip Purr]]|
suggest_comments=

Building a hut could also require a certain number of driftwood pieces. --[[User:Rip Purr|Rip Purr]] 12:08, 3 June 2006 (BST)

Ability to create minor base camps away from settlements is good (but for what practical purpose?), but the idea that the island would be flooded with "huts" all over, with the same icon and name as huts in settlements, I dont like that. This is supposed to a wild myseterious island, having huts all over would hurt that ambiance I think (Lower-tech base camps of some sort would not hurt it though.) If hut construction is implemented it would have to be very costly to avoid littering the entire map with them that's for sure. The other thing is, We have to be clear about what the purpose of these base camps would be, what practical benfit would they have. Would they have defense value? Could the builder elect to keep people out unless they are members of clan X or unless they are natives or unless they are Derbyites, etc? [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:59, 4 June 2006 (BST)

:I agree wholeheartedly with your points. It is indeed important to make it difficult to build huts. As I mentioned, the huts would have very small capabilities as a trade point, thus making them a tactical advantage in a seige. Allow me to explain; My clan wants to lay seige to Dalpok. We erect a small camp near the village and stock our huts with bullets through trading. Then we load up, attack, come back to our makeshift camp and take the bullets from our huts. As for the wild, mysterious island element, you're right, but is it not normal for humans to tame and civilise the jungle? And vice versa for humans to destroy one another's homes? With this new skill(s) we can simulate seiges and sackings, but still keep our 7 original villages/bases. I don't think you could exclude people from entering your hut. It's the luck of the draw, and if enemies infiltrate, too bad. makes it all the more exciting. I also agree that making a hut should be very costly, but that's up to Simon as to how he'd like to implement such a cost. Finally, the only variation I can see might be to make huts not a mini trade post, but maybe a small storage area of say 15 slots, to keep bullets or med kits from the main towns...? --[[User:Rip Purr|Rip Purr]] 02:30, 4 June 2006 (BST)

:Here are my thoughts on the matter:
:#To encourage clustering of huts (instead of unsightly and unrealistic random scattering), hut-builders should be required to chop the hut's eventual square ''and'' all surrounding squares (that don't have huts on them) to d0. After all, construction requires some space. This would encourage players to build next to existing huts, since every adjacent hut is a square that doesn't need chopping.
:#For realism's sake, driftwood shouldn't be required to build or repair a hut, because it'd be silly to make a player in the middle of a huge jungle travel all the way to the beach to find wood. Jungle wood could be introduced as an item, but I think it's better to require AP alone.
:#Hut health could be managed by giving each new hut 5 HP (Hut Points =)) and removing 1 HP every 24 hours (obliterating any hut that reaches 0 HP). A hut would require 50 AP to construct (in addition to AP for chopping the surrounding jungle) and 10 AP to repair by 1 HP. Repairs wouldn't require cleared jungle; once a hut is built, jungle growth outside doesn't matter.
:#Special features for huts, such as trade and storage abilities, should be put on hold until buildable huts are already in the game. Not only do huts provide shelter from animals, they hide players inside from anyone not willing to spend a few AP to move to the hut and enter it, so additional features shouldn't be necessary to make hut-building worthwhile.
:— [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 04:52, 4 June 2006 (BST)
}}

=== Spirit Transfer ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill, action|
suggest_scope=Warriors, Shamans|
suggest_description= This suggerstion was inspired by polymorph. Warriors and Shamans can get a new skill that allows them to transfer their spirits into the bodies of a dead animal nearby. Animals won't be able to speak, use items, search, or use any human skills. The player will have the Hp and attack power of the type of animal you possessed. Other players on the map will see you as just another animal, not as a native. Transferring spirits will result in the death of their human form (if it is not already dead) but grants them access to the animal's innate abilities. Eg. Alligators can attack twice but have decreased movement through land, Monkeys can search and use some simple items, Parrots move faster throught all terrain. When the body of the animal possessed dies the player will be in spirit form but wont have a corpse. It will also be possible to leave the animal's body at any time but the trauma would be the same as having the body killed by an outside force. In order to not break the game, certain special animals can not be possessed ( like that giant squid )|

suggest_time=11:37, 3 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Stcfg|Stcfg]]|
suggest_comments=

: I would like to suggest a skill for being able to detect possessed animals but that is for another day. --[[User:Stcfg|Stcfg]] 11:40, 3 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Hunting Prowess===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill|
suggest_scope=Tracking skill tree|
suggest_description=It would be interesting for serious trackers to be constantly aware of recent tracks without spending AP. I propose adding this skill after ''Expert Tracking''—it doesn't have to be called ''Hunting Prowess'' but that seemed like a fitting name. Players with this skill would still have to use the 'Look for tracks' button to see anything but the most recent tracks. One possible limitation is to apply this only to animal tracks, but I definitely intended to include player tracks as well.|
suggest_time=13:17, 9 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Vtbassmatt|VTBassMatt]]|
suggest_comments=

:Tracking is currently a bit weak. On the other hand, I don't mind seeing quite a few mild/weak skills, because some players are already looking for more ways to spend XP. Certainly Tracking should top out at stronger than 1AP per attempt. My suggestion was ''Master Tracking'' above ''Expert Tracking'' to reduce time to 0.5AP per attempt. I agree that it would be neat to have the skill ''Hunting Prowess'' as a 0AP ability for only the single most recent track, but I think this skill would be a prime candidate to limit to '''Explorer/Scout-only.''' (Sorry!) 1. Tracking perfectly fits the Explorer/Scout class archetype, 2. Shartak needs better class differentiation, 3. Explorer/Scout is a bit weak, 4. Explorer/Scout currently has no dedicated skills. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 08:19, 15 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Emergency medicine===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill|
suggest_scope=Scientist|
suggest_description=At the moment, scientists have no significant advantages. They start with 10 gold coins which, while it's nothing to sneeze at, doesn't really fit with their name. Perhaps they could learn a skill that allowed them to heal without the use of a first aid kit. First aid would be a prerequisite. However, the skill would not allow them to heal as many HP as using an FAK would. For example, they might only heal 2-5 HP. This would allow scientists to wander in the jungle for long periods of time without resupplying, giving them a real advantage over other classes. However, using an FAK would still heal more and allow more XP per AP, so FAK's would not become obsolete. Would this be difficult to code?|
suggest_time=08:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]]|
suggest_comments=

Comment here

}}

===Give explorers/scouts their own tracking skill===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill|
suggest_scope=Explorers and scouts|
suggest_description=While ''trailblazing'' has given explorers and scouts an edge over other players, they need more if they are to compete with the soldier, warrior and pirate classes for the attention of new players. I suggest that ''tracking mastery'' be combined into ''expert tracking'', which will be restricted to explorers and scouts. Any non-explorers/scouts with one or both of those skills would be refunded enough XP for their next skill (or two, if they have both) so they aren't punished. (The refund would occur ''after'' the skills were restricted and actively taken away from any non-explorers/scouts with them. This would let their levels and next-skill costs drop ''before'' the next-skill XP awards were given so that extra XP would not be accidentally awarded.) Full disclosure: I don't have any tracking skills, and I'm not sure how ''advanced tracking'' and ''expert tracking'' differ at the moment, but I think a good 1.5 AP tracking skill for everyone and an excellent 0.5 AP tracking skill for explorers and scouts will give those two classes a notable advantage in what should be one of their fortes. |
suggest_time=22:29, 18 July 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Elembis|Elembis]]|
suggest_comments=

: Shouldn't this be added to the "Hunting prowess" skill entry? http://wiki.shartak.com/index.php/Suggestions:Skills#Hunting_Prowess [[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]] 7:00, 19 July 2006
:: Yep. ''Tracking mastery'' is kind of handy, but I still think that it should be a universal skill, and that ''hunting prowess'' should be the scout/explorer-only skill. ''Hunting prowess'', at the top of the tracking tree, would cause scouts to receive basic tracking information passively (for 0 AP) at every step. Oooo, neat. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 17:30, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
:::Tracking automatically for every move would add too much load on the server as the game becomes more popular. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 00:11, 22 August 2006 (UTC)


}}

===Melee buffs for intoxicated pirates===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill|
suggest_scope=Pirates under the influence|
suggest_description=Pirates are traditionally portrayed as rum-guzzling brawlers, so it would be fitting to encourage pirate players to drink (and drink to excess). I think imbibing a beer or rum should give a pirate a 1 HP damage bonus for all melee attacks in their next 5 AP. A machete (or cutlass) hits 2.25 times in 5 AP, on average, for a skilled user, so drinking for 1 AP would translate to around 2.25 HP of damage beyond what a machete would normally do. This is comparable to the combat damage dealt by blowpipes (2.4 HP/AP) and rifles (3 HP/AP).

Multiple drinks would extend the duration of the effect but not its intensity. To encourage actual drunkenness instead of casual beer-sipping, a drink taken by a pirate with beer already in their gut could give 7 more buffed AP instead of 5, which is effectively 6 AP (and 2.7 HP of damage) when you consider that 1 drunken AP must be wasted on taking another drink. The skill could be called ''brawling'' or ''drunken fist'' (which is the literal Chinese title of the classic Jackie Chan movie ''Drunken Master'') and would be placed with ''stamina'' under ''body building'' (to keep melee skills together and to avoid starting another tree).

I'm proposing this cautiously because pirates are already tougher and more popular than any other class. However, considering that beer and rum are harder to find and more expensive than darts and bullets (and should probably be even more expensive if this skill is implemented), I don't think this skill would make pirates stronger than warriors and soldiers, and it would improve both the diversity of the classes and the depth of the game's theme.|
suggest_time=06:24, 22 July 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Elembis|Elembis]]|
suggest_comments=

RE: Beer and Rum becoming more expensive if the skill is implemented- I completely agree, and the increase in price would also represent supplies of booze at the pirate camp running out, which I guess would then lead to outsiders trading beer and rum with the pirates, and adding another dimension to gameplay- [[User:Peg-Hand Grimm|Peg-Hand Grimm]]

Nice idea. In general I like the idea of making items have some specific use rather than generic AP-insreasers. But how about making it a gamble to take a drink instead of a definite combat-booster. If a pirate were to drink a bottle of rum, his next 5 or 10 AP would either give him +1 damage for every hit (with "flavor text" to let him know he is getting a boost, e.g. "In a drunken rage you inflict more damage on your target"), or it would make him too disoriented and out of it to do anything, and every time he attacks it would give him flavor text telling him he is too uncoordinated to attack, and he stumbles around unable to do anything (he would stay in place, not respond to comannds to attack but waste an AP anyway) till the intoxication wears off in 5 or 10 AP. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:16, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Technical “spell” skills ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill|
suggest_scope=Scientist/Shaman|
suggest_description=I would like to see the introduction of “tech spells” to the “magician class” of Shartak (scientist/shaman) much like the blue magic of final fantasy XII which rather than doing out right damage produces technical effects like haste, poison or blind. An illustration of this would be giving the shaman class an AP cost skill (let’s call it curse) that produces the same effect as wounded/bleeding (1HP loss per action) on their opponent. But given the nature of such spells the percentage chance of success should be inversely proportional to the strength of the spell or have their effects tuned down, so to retain fairness. As side note I like to see this skill given to NPC shamans to discourage people from attacking them.|
suggest_time=09:33, 22 July 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:A for anarchy|A for anarchy]]|
suggest_comments=

"curse" might be confused with what the ancestors spirits do to zergers. This causes actions to cost more AP than normal. I would imagine that this would be a shaman only skill as scientists don't have magical powers! --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 22:35, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
*i agree with the statement that scientist don't and shouldn't have magic powers, so how about this instead; give them "tech" skills but have them named within a scientific context, for instance the above "wounding" spell could be named "drug" or "poison" instead of say "curse" or whatever. --[[User:A for anarchy|A for anarchy]] 04:01, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Haggle===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill|
suggest_scope=Everyone|
suggest_description=You can haggle with the traders and get stuff cheaper. When they are pissed off at you (for being there too long) the prices would become normal.|
suggest_time=20:20 EST 28/07/2006|
suggest_author=Aco|
suggest_comments=

Comment here

}}

===FAK/Healing Herb Manufacturing Skills===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill|
suggest_scope=Scientists and Shamans|
suggest_description=Perhaps the most in-demand items are healing herbs and first aid kits. They can only be used once, but they're used quite freely. This means that a lot of people must spend a lot of time searching medical huts for FAKs (for the duration of this suggestion, assume that FAK refers to both first aid kits and healing herbs). Meanwhile, we have two classes that don't have much of an advantage: the scientist and the shaman. Perhaps these two classes could learn a skill allowing them to produce their culture's version of the FAK. This would make these classes useful while also increasing the supply of FAKs. Additionally, these two classes are the most likely to know how to do this.

As for how the skill would work, I would recommend having a "Make FAK" button. They would then have a chance of successfully producing an FAK. These FAKs could then either be used (providing a source of XP besides killing things) or could be sold to the trader (since FAKs are always in demand). This would encourage the development of a "healer" class in Shartak, while also giving shamans and scientists useful special skills. I suppose scientists/shamans could be required to find raw materials before manufacturing, but that would just force people to continue the rather tedious and hit-or-miss tactic of farming huts/jungles.|
suggest_time=14:28 31 July 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]]|
suggest_comments=

* '''Oppose'''. I agree that shamans and scientists should be best at healing and should have useful special skills, but I don't like this specific suggestion (as well-thought-out as it is) for two reasons: First, I think the jungle should be inhospitable, and turning shamans and scientists into herb farms and kit factories (yes, I'm exaggerating) would work against that. Second, I think the ability to make items is a complication that should be avoided if we can accomplish the same goal in other ways, which we can. I recommend three of the suggestions for shaman/scientist healing on [[Talk:Game design#Scientist and shaman|Talk:Game design]]: (1) give shamans access to ''first aid'' and scientists access to ''natural medicine'', (2) let shamans/scientists see the health of all wounded players on their side, not just the most wounded one, and (3) let shamans/scientists see whether players on their side are suffering from shark bites or poison. (I'd actually make 3 apply to all players, not just those on the player's side, because it wouldn't really be advantageous in combat to notice shark bites and the effects of poison.) 2 and 3 could be smoothly combined into one "Diagnosis" skill that would give these two classes a useful (if minor) healing edge over the others. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 06:10, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
**First, let me thank you for responding. I appreciate any and all input. I've taken some time to think about your objections and prepare my responses. May I propose an alteration? Perhaps, instead of my original suggestion, this "Make FAK" button would (as far as the programming is concerned) serve as a second "search area" button, but one that only produces FAK's, and has a significantly higher chance of producing one than a regular search. Additionally, it would only function in areas where an FAK can be found, as that is where the scientist/shaman would find the raw materials in the first place. This would be similar to UD's "shopping" and "bargain hunting" skills, in that it lets you search for a specific item and gives a boost to the probability of success. Additionally, it would only work in certain areas, like the shopping skill. The difference would be that it only produce FAK's. This would ensure that FAK's aren't simply produced out of mid-air (which is rather unrealistic, now that I think about it) while also giving scientists and shamans a dedicated and valuable healing-related skill. [[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]] 10:44, 1 August 2006 (GMT) Edited: 16:44, 1 August 2006 (GMT)
**How about having the skill function in a similar manner to the "Manufacture Syringe" skill on UD, thus powering-down the effect by requiring that the healer be in a Medical Hut and use multiple AP? --[[User:Gitboy|Less Than Lethal]] 17:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
***I haven't played UD since that was added; that being said, it certainly sounds good to me. Requiring that the healer be in the medical hut was essentially what I had in mind when I proposed it only work for certain locations. As for requiring multiple AP, I suppose that would have the same long-term effect as searching, while simultaneously being less tedious for the healer. Tell me, would this always produce an FAK or would it just offer a chance of doing so? I certainly like the sound of this suggestion. [[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]] 18:03, 1 August 2006 (GMT)
****What we have now, then, is a skill which would essentially give scientists better search odds for kits in medical huts (and likewise for shamans). Limiting this skill to players in villages is a step in the right direction, and giving it the form of greater search odds makes some sense, too: healers would look especially hard for healing items. But I'm still not persuaded, mainly because the skill's effects seem inconsistent to me. If healers have better search odds (in effect) for healing items, shouldn't fighters have better search odds for weapons and ammunition, and likewise for pirates finding rum and gold? The implications of the original idea could become very messy in practice. Also, wouldn't a pirate bleeding from a shark bite with just 10 HP remaining look even harder for a kit than a healer merely stocking up on supplies? The goal is allow healers to spend more time in the field and less in the hut, but I think we still lack a solution which makes sense. Here's a more realistic and less far-reaching idea which might work: shamans and scientists are given a skill which lets them heal 5 extra HP with a kit or herb if they're healing someone else. Anyone who's ever tried to remove a bullet from their back, bandage their gaping head wound, set their broken bone, or frantically stop their own bleeding will attest to the fact that medical care is most effective when someone else is administering it. This would let scientists use fewer kits in the field without making them better at healing themselves (which I think would be ''too'' useful). As a result, they wouldn't need to spend as much time in medical huts, which I think is the whole idea. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 00:28, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
This should be indented, since it's a response to Elembis's post. However, it would be rather crowded if I did that, so here you go. With that out of the way, on to business. You're correct that part of the reason for this suggestion is to reduce the amount of time spent in healing huts. It's also intended to boost the supply of FAK's. Your suggestion would somewhat reduce the demand, which would have essentially the same effect.

As for the inconsistency, that's part of why I suggested calling it "Make FAK." If you've ever spent the night in a healing hut while wounded, you know that SOMEBODY is going to heal you up while you're gone. However, the way I see it, they aren't going to use everything in that kit. Cutlass wounds require different treatment than poison dart wounds, for instance. That means there's going to be a lot of unused medical material around. Realistically speaking, there's probably also going to be some medical supplies that aren't part of a kit. By calling it "make FAK," you can get a message saying, "Using spare supplies, you cobble together a first aid kit." Now, the shaman is slightly different but the result is the same. The medical hut message says there are many herbs hanging up to dry. The shaman could get a message saying, "After looking through the herbs in the hut, you find a healing herb that is ready for use."

Also, I don't want you to think I'm ignoring your suggestion about the extra five HP healing. I definitely agree that it's more realistic to have a healer be better at healing others than themselves. I'd be happy to see it as one of the skills (maybe split that into a seperate discussion?). However, I'm not sure that's enough of a bonus by itself to tempt people to play the rather underplayed scientist class. Warriors and soldiers have extremely helpful skill; I think the other classes should as well. And as always, I appreciate your input, Elembis and LtL. [[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]] 6:11 2 August 2006

}}

Suggestions:Items

2006-08-27T00:08:09Z

Arminius: /* Spear */

{{Suggestions header|page_type=Item}}

== Items ==

=== Absinth ===
Could have a very low chance of being found, and would display as "Bottle of absinth" (in addition to the existing "Bottle of beer" and "Bottle of water"). Would result in a distortion of game display, showing some kind of living beings (native, outsiders or animals) as another kind (a native could be displayed as an outsider or an animal), causing the intoxicated character to attack people he wouldn't have attacked otherwise, or trying to role-play with an angry elephant. --[[User:Mad Robert|Mad Robert]] 03:53, 19 March 2006 (GMT)
*No reason to drink it then? --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 23:37, 19 March 2006 (GMT)
**I'm sure someone would drink it anyway. Could bring back some HP, of course... --[[User:Mad Robert|Mad Robert]] 23:50, 19 March 2006 (GMT)
*The whole "distortion of game display" thing sounds too complicated. If it's a powerful enough hallucinogen, it could work as a teleporter to a random nearby location ("As the effects of the absinthe wear off, you realize that you have moved to a different part of the jungle."). But I think it'd be better theme-wise to introduce a plant native to the island with such an effect; also, these "strange herbs" would give outsiders something to confuse healing herbs with. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 13:24, 21 May 2006 (BST)
----

=== Spear ===
It could be the native warriors main weapon, give it a base damage of 3, same to hit as machete but it wouldn't cut through jungle -- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 11:02, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
*A spear for stabbing or a spear for throwing (i.e single use) ? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:49, 25 February 2006 (GMT)
**I like the idea of a spear for stabbing. We have enough single use weapons in the game, already. What would make it so different from a blowgun, if it is throwable? Which brings up another question: With a weapon that deals 3 damage and is reusable, who will bother with a blowgun?--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 06:54, 29 March 2006 (BST)
*The machete is already better than the blowpipe if you've got the three melee upgrades, and the spear would represent a third melee weapon warriors like me would need to carry around (along with a knife for writing and a machete for chopping). I don't see a point, unless it's to compete with the heavy sword, in which case I'd recommend that the heavy sword be toned down. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 13:32, 21 May 2006 (BST)
*I like the idea of having the spear become the second “super” weapon in shartak, rather than increasing its damage potential its accuracy could be raised instead so that instead of 20 it could be 30 percent yet still have the same damage base of 2 like the cutlass/machete, while having other stats same or similar to the heavy sword. that would pretty much solve all the problems mentioned above--[[User:A for anarchy|A for anarchy]] 04:29, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
*Spears and bow-and-arrow should be implemented for natives, to give them some unique weapons besides the blowpipe. (why would all natives use the machete, an outsider item?) Natives should be able to make their own arrows from wood found the jungle. Also, to promote use by each class of 'their' weapon, maybe natives using spear should get 45% accuracy, using machete they should get get 40%... and outsiders using spear get 40%, but using machete get 45%? [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:08, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
----

=== Head-shrinking powder ===
This could be either a melee or area weapon used by natives.

''Comments''
*What are the effects of it? Causes X HP of damage? Loss of AP? Loss of XP? Instant death? - [[User:Snarf|Snarf]]
**Could be used on a body to create a totem of some sort. This can then be placed in a square. People from the same village or settlement as the now shrunken head take twice as many AP to move through because of fear. Disintergrates after x number of people have moved through the square. {{unsigned|Hyper tyger|17:18, March 18, 2006 (BST) }}
----

=== Meat ===
Heals 2 HP. Used by both outsiders and tribals. It appears in your inventory when you kill a beastie. [[User:Bungalow Bill|Bungalow Bill]]

''Comments''
*But you can only carry 200 pounds of meat back to your wagon. <nowiki></oregontrail></nowiki> --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:15, 13 February 2006 (GMT)
*Or you have to cook it, taking one AP and possibly a fire-lighting skill (who wants to eat raw monkey?).[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 20:12, 20 February 2006 (GMT)
**Maybe you don't have to cook it but you get less HP and possibly lose HP to food poisoning. [DarkFerret]
*Or, to make it more, hm, tribal, you could need to bring it back to specific places in the village where it could be (instantaneously) cooked and used as a replenished "health pool" any player could use. You would still have the occasional berries to eat in the forest, but real meal would occure at a settlement. It would also provide a more efficient healing system (as currently, you roughly get to spend 50 AP to recover 4 or 5 HP, which makes death the most efficient way to restore your HP). -- Leaf
**''There is a large pot of stew cooking, it appears to be half full.''
***''You eat some and feel better. After a few spoonfuls you find your friend's pocket watch.'' [DarkFerret]
**Make it 1 HP per kg of meat (basing carcass size loosely on the animal's starting HP), and make each HP of carried meat fill 1 inventory space (and pretend preservation isn't a problem). Put an ever-boiling pot in each village (in a boring oudoor place; we could use more points of interest), and give people experience points whenever they contribute meat to any pot (more meat gives you more XP, and putting meat in the pot of your home village gives you extra (double?) XP). Omnipresent spices and palate differences could make food at Outsider villages inedible for Natives, and vice-versa. (Pirates ought to be able to eat from any pot, but for half the health benefit. Maybe they should even be able to eat meat raw.) Any non-meat added to the pot would simply disappear (and poison from poison berries would be broken up by the heat). This system would (1) encourage community, (2) increase realism (there's currently no realistic reason for a non-warrior to kill a non-threatening animal), and (3) provide another theme-fitting non-combat XP path. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)
***As per Elembis. For example, a meat item could be eaten raw for 1HP per 1 inventory space, or returned to a cooking pot (imho only in native camps...). Drinking from a cooking pot could restore 2HP, until "The pot is currently empty". Non-meat items could not be added to the cooking pot -- the game menu functionality would be limited by the user interface (for example, Add Meat to Cooking Pot doesn't appear or doesn't work until you have meat in inventory, and adds meat to the cooking pot when clicked). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 21:37, 16 June 2006 (BST)
***We should keep in mind that eating from a pot should heal faster than searching for and applying herbs and kits, or else players in need of healing won't bother. (6 searches per FAK/herb means 7 AP per 5/10 HP healed for non-scavengers, so 2 HP per bowl of food should be fine.) Also, I think that pots should treat pirates like normal outsiders, that all camps should have pots (since outsiders are surely capable of cooking meat), that the item should be "piece of meat", that the description for a square with a pot should read something like "There is a fire here with a large pot over it.", and that the button should read "Add Meat to Pot" (or perhaps that feature should just be linked to the "meat" button in the inventory list). — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 22:20, 16 June 2006 (BST)

----

=== Radio beacon/receiver ===
A radio beacon/receiver for outsiders to pinpoint specific locations of interest.

''Comments''
*What's wrong with using the GPS co-ordinates of a specific location? - [[User:Snarf|Snarf]]
*Perhaps a way to have GPS waypoints or markers IN one own's GPS? --[[User:Wcervantes|Wcervantes]] 19:39, 16 February 2006 (GMT)
----

=== Holy Scriptures ===
Used to convert Natives into Ousiders. Requires "Religious Devotion". Most likely found around Outsider settlements --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
*Nobody wants to have a class change againt their will. -Grigoriy
*Noone wants to die against their will either, but it does happen ;-) Might be irritating, but also might be quite interesting. It would have to be possible both ways of course, natives to outsiders and outsiders to natives. Perhaps the outsiders can convert natives to outsiders with holy scriptures using the religious devotion skill and natives can convert outsiders to natives with a bottle of beer using the seduction skill! ;-) --[[User:Murk|Murk]] 12:28, 4 March 2006 (GMT)
*Class conversion gets awfully mucky, when you consider available skills. I would say that a better idea would be for use of Holy Scriptures on a native to prompt the natives with an invitation to change sides--without changing class. This would make them see outsiders by name, make natives anonymous, and cause them to show up on the map as "1 convert" to outsiders (as opposed to "1 native") and as "1 traitor" to natives. Converting back would require a shaman with an equivalent skill (which can, of course, offer outsiders an opportunity to be accepted into native communities).
:Note, though, that I have no idea how difficult that would be to write in, given the existing code.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:01, 29 March 2006 (BST)
*Such a feature would allow anyone to change class bath and forth at will by just using another of their characters of the appropriate class to effect the conversion, which makes classes virtually pointless.
*Class conversion sounds bad. Religion might be interesting, but this seems like a messy and unpleasant way to include it. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)
----

=== GPS Unit (Redesign) ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Item, modification|
suggest_scope=GPS unit|
suggest_description=This is a suggestion to change the gps unit into an object that presumably fits better with the game setting. We currently have no other modern item available for use (anachronism - VOCABULARY WORD!). Perhaps we should use a sextant? And rather than reveal the position all of the time, it requires a 1 AP use in non-dense, non-enclosed area.|
suggest_time=21:48, 23 February 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

Yes, GPS units are indeed ''malapropos'' (another vocabulary word :D)--[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 00:33, 27 February 2006 (GMT)

Y'know, the "GPS Unit" item has stuck out like a sore thumb to me too. I'd be very much in favor of a lower-tech replacement, if only because it makes the game more timeless. But what tools ''did'' explorers of earlier eras use to measure latitude and longitude while traveling by land, anyway? And how accurate were they? Alternatively phrased: if you were trapped on a desert island without a GPS Unit, how would you estimate where you were? Lint's suggestion for a lower-tech replacement item, requiring AP and suitable terrain conditions for proper use, appeals to me. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:03, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

I've done some research into this and as Lint said, a sextant is what was used. Unfortunately though, a sextant doesn't do both longitude and latitude very quickly, you need charts/tables and several hours. See http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/longitude/secrets.html for info. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 14:55, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

: Ahh; yeah, I had just been checking out http://www.lewis-clark.org/content/content-article.asp?ArticleID=1268 myself. If I'm reading it right, it sounds like the bulk of the hours of calculation involved were due to being at sea and having to figure out what time zone you're in first as part of the equation. (Both pages mention a "chronometer" which was finally invented to try to solve that problem.) On land, though -- and especially on an island of Shartak's size -- you pretty much know where you are, and you're not likely to be crossing time zones. A quote from the Lewis & Clark page: "If time can be fixed along any meridian of longitude, then longitudinal distance can be determined by comparing time at that meridian with local time, usually based on the point at which the sun reaches its zenith." So. I wonder if we could fudge a bit with this sextant business by assuming that everyone on the island is able to determine what time it is on Shartak -- after all, we do get timestamped event messages! ;) -- and therefore we can apply that bit of knowledge to help determine longitude, overcoming the sextant's weakness. That could even go in the FAQ. I'm not really all that scientifically inclined, so please do feel welcome to correct me if if my thoughts are way off base. In closing, I still like Lint's ideas about making it cost AP and require suitable terrain. The former would represent the investment of time in setting up the equipment and doing the calculations. The latter would give players a reason to clear a square of jungle. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 16:07, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

:: That all sounds good. I think there is a skill in there as well - I don't suppose a sextant is as accurate as GPS, so why not have it not produce the same result all of the time? Someone with the "Skillful Sextant Supervisor" skill gets more accurate results. --[[User:Dr. J|Dr. J]] 16:17, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

: The AP cost of a sextant or other device could easily be added to the GPS unit by requiring that you 'use gps' to get the reading rather than it being on all the time. Whilst redesigning the GPS unit, how about thinking of something for natives to find out where they are - obviously not as accurate as a sextant, but something to guide them around or to specific locations. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 16:30, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

:: Just consider it a redesigned sextant that some mythical character dropped around the island and call it "Professor Inglewood's Speedy Sextant And Nano Tables" or some other such nonesense and leave it working the same, just with a different name. As for natives, maybe they could see/read totems at different points in the jungle, indicating where resources/towns are. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 17:06, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

:: Natives divine their position with animal feces. It can be a new skill ;) Actually, in all seriousness, perhaps something involving animal bones? It would need to be something mystical, as there just isn't a more primitive method than the sextant. That way, it sort of balances; you use animal bone dice for a few minutes to divine your position accurately, and outsiders sit dow nand use a sextant.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:08, 29 March 2006 (BST)

:: I'm currently of the opinion that the Natives don't need a version of the GPS. It helps a little with the mapping projects and location scripts. But my Shaman was just as lost than my gps-using Settler when I was traipsing through the Jungle. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:10, 30 March 2006 (BST)

::: So natives need a sensing skill that gives them direction and distance to the nearest village. Natives seem to flail at the beginning compared to outsiders: every outsider counterpart item/skill is stronger (especially gps, blowpipe vs rifle, and the lack of bottled water). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 05:43, 10 May 2006 (BST)

:::: How about giving Natives a 'always on' ability (like the GPS is now). They have been born and raised here, they _always_ know where they are (or perhaps it should be modified so that they always know where they are in relation to their village - ie, (201N, 34E of Wiksik). Make the GPS a sextant and require an AP to take a reading and perform the calculations. I would go so far as to suggest that it be tied to the Cartography skill or possibly an additional skill in the Cartography tree.[[User:Anothertwilight|Anothertwilight]] 06:20, 10 May 2006 (BST)

::::: I like this idea as well as Frisco's. Rename the GPS unit a sextant, keep its 0 AP use cost, and give all natives the ability to "Sense Position" for 1 AP and be told the direction and rough distance of the nearest village. ("After several minutes of attentive communion with the spirits, you sense that Raktam is about a day's journey north of here.") <s>Maybe even take the GPS away; the natives should know their way around better than the outsiders.</s> — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)

How about we just get ride of the gps unit in general and in its place have item called "a map and compass" and rather then being a 0AP cost item, it cost 1AP to tell the coordinates (exactly like an gps unit would) anywhere and gives no experience. --[[User:A for anarchy|A for anarchy]] 04:41, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

: Making a map an item would require the skills of ''exploration'' and ''cartography'' to be changed or eliminated, which I'd rather not do. Also, the grid-like map already gives us a compass of sorts, so a compass as an item, while interesting, wouldn't really do anything. And finally, a 1 AP use cost for the GPS unit / map and compass / sextant would probably result in the creation of a Greasemonkey script that would store one's coordinates in a cookie, modify them for each movement based on which "move" buttons was pressed, and show the resulting coordinates all the time (at no AP cost). I suppose this could be done already for players without a GPS unit (that is, you could anchor your coordinate system by finding a known hut or landmark and inputting its coordinates), but the GPS unit makes it a lot easier. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 16:54, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

}}

=== Refillable containers ===
Does it really make sense that after drinking something, you automatically discard the container it had been in? I propose a modification to the inventory system so bottles/gourds work similar to rifles and blowguns--they can be refilled if they are empty. Obviously, you can't just carry around spare water like you can ammo, so to refill a water container, you have to be in water. This would clearly make areas near water more popular, which I don't think is a bad thing, or without precedent. Furthermore, this could lead to new and interesting directions, such as other liquids that could be carried around, causing various effects. Off the top of my head:
* drinking too much "ocean" water will make you sick (reducing your hit % temporarily)
* a "create mysterious serum" skill the shaman/scientist can eventually learn that (along with certain ingredients) lets them create a "buff" potion.
* special healing water springs that have double the recuperative effect
This would also address one of the concerns I've had regarding healing skills. To my knowledge, there is no place in Shartak where you are more likely to consistantly find healing kits/herbs, etc. its all fairly random. By comparision, UD has certain buildings where you can only find certain items (i.e. hospitals = first aid kits). IMO, its currently too difficult/AP consuming to heal. Without a way to consistantly find/create healing items, it's not likely there will be "healers" willing to use their hard-to-find healing items on anyone else. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 22:14, 25 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
*Have you found the hut in Dalpok with all the drying herbs hanging up? Says something about a shaman being busy, I seem to have a reasonable success rate at finding healing herbs there. Not sure if there are more around. --[[User:Snarf|Snarf]] 22:17, 25 February 2006 (GMT)
**No, I hadn't noticed such a hut(s), I've assumed they were all pretty much the same. If certain huts are more likely to contain certain items, I've another suggestion--'''label them'''. Any opinion on my primary suggestion of refillable containers? --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 22:31, 25 February 2006 (GMT)
***I can confirm that huts may look identical on the outside, but their inside descriptions can differ significantly. Fortunately, anyone with the right tool can carve a message on a hut's outer walls, such as "Empty Inside" or "Shaman's Hut". --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:24, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
*Refillable containers? Give the user the choice to discard the container? Sure, sounds cool to me. About the water supply: I agree that ocean water (water right off the beach) would be bound to be salty and unpotable in a real-world scenario. According to the [[Locations]] page, there's a river off the south side of the mountain, which would seem to be the only known terrestrial fresh water source on the whole island. Hmm, a thought: If we were to have refillable containers, then might one also expect there to be wells in or around the villages? --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:24, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
**There is at least one more (much shorter) river near Derby. I'll bet there is a lake or two somewhere as well. Wells are probably not a bad idea. --[[User:Dr. J|Dr. J]] 15:05, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
***According to the [http://www.itechsc.com/misc/shartak/ubermap/ uber map] there are three lakes (two are close to each other) in addition to the river, and a pond by Durham. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)
* Refillable bottles and gourds added. Not sure about buff potions etc though. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 19:29, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
----

=== Remove uber sword of doom(aka heavy sword) ===
I don't even have a heavy sword yet but I can already tell(from the item page) that it makes a lot of things utterly useless.Just for reference the heavy sword is(when maxed attack skills) 45% hit, 5dam= '''2.25dam/ap'''. What does it make useless, well let me begin. 

1.Rifle skills- reason: the ap you spent getting the xp for those skills was better used searching for a heavy sword. 

2.Rifle- reason: the dam/ap for the rifle is lower than a the heavy sword '''before''' factoring in the search for ammo part. The math: the rifle is 5 dam,60% hit,1.5 ap/shot( 3ap per 2 shots i think)= (5*.6)/1.5 =3/1.5 = '''2ap/dam NOT FACTORING IN SEARCHING FOR AMMO'''.

3. The blowpipe- reason: the blowpipe sucks as it is, the machete makes it pointless(unless they actually poison) and the heavy sword just makes it absolute garbage(even if they poisoned). The math: 4 dam, 20% hit, 2ap/shot(assuming you have to reload after every shot i don't use the blowpipe so I wouldn't know)= (4*.2)/2=.8/2= '''.4 dam/ap NOT FACTORING IN SEARCHING FOR AMMO'''.

Conclusion- I realize there are problems with the blowpipe but as far as I can tell with the rifle there are none. The knowledge of there even being a heavy sword is enough to discourage those that would take rifles training as a skill. The sword is just too powerful to balance in game as the only way to balance it would be to add another item that is just as crazy powerful, making it rare does nothing to the balance as people can still find it and it makes those few ,whom the RNG loves, ridiculosly overpowered. If the RNG loves somebody they should get multipul hits in a row not the ability to destroy everybody who can't/doesn't want to waste the ap to gain that ability. And after all just because it is rare doesn't mean we all can't find it, I know eventually we would all find one and there would be no variaty whatsoever in battle. Take urban dead for example they balanced the shotguns,pistols, and fireaxe evenly so there is no superior choice its about how you want to play. With the heavy sword it makes all other items pale in comparison BEFORE search rates are keyed into calculations, in urban dead it is AFTER that they are about even. This suggestion to remove something doesn't punish anybody because as of right now we do not know where to find the heavy sword, the only ones were stumbled across randomly so nobody would really have "wasted" the ap to find it(unless they have but I know after reading a bit I didn't for the fun reducing factor everybody having one would bring). Also don't bring up things about how I don't know how it works ingame because unless it takes 6ap to attack the math shows it is unbalanced. Please Simon fix this unbalanced weapon by removing it, not by making everything else oh so much better. ANybody who is with me sign in the comments please.

'''Comments'''

*The math looks sound. And I agree that having everyone run around with Heavy Swords would make for a plain game. However, I don't see why it needs to be removed completely. Is there anything we can do to the sword mechanics to make it more even with the existing weapons? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:04, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
*I agree. The machete with maxed out melee skils is arguably better than any other weapon, and the heavy sword makes that look like a butter knife. Yank it or make it so rare it would be like winning the lottery twice. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 01:49, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
*I disagree with some of the logic in this argument. If the heavy sword were a common weapon, then I could understand the concern; however, the "über sword of doom" is hardly of such availability. As far as I know, only one player has the sword. Having rare items like it add a new dimension to the game - a sort of treasure hunting aspect. I would even propose that even more superior weapons are "hidden" around the island, possibly protected by superior animals. --[[User:Gandhi|Gandhi]] 00:34, 22 March 2006 (GMT)
** One player on the [[Game design]] page has commented on how he has acquired 3 Heavy Swords. Don't get me wrong, some weapons should be better than others to allow for diversity (that's why there's knives, daggers, and whatnot). However, as it stands, the Heavy Sword to our knowledge is the single best weapon available. Everyone is going to be running around with it and if you don't have one, you won't be able to compete. It'd be like playing Rock-Paper-Scissors-Nuclear Bomb and Nuclear Bomb always wins. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 00:52, 22 March 2006 (GMT)
*Are these even real? I mean, how many people claim to have gotten them? one? This almost looks like a pretty funny joke. Also, Simon has stayed silent on this, implying some sort of uber sword conspiracy, so perhaps we shouldn't rock the boat. (Cue up suspenseful music) -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 06:02, 22 March 2006 (GMT)
**i have 3 swords ,but i'm reading it's really rare. I feel really lucky :). Oh , and i think it's too powerful compared to other weapons. Maybe there must be other rare ranged weapons (like some 6 or 7 o 8 damage rifle) or something like this --[[User:JonesDye|JonesDye]] 09:38, 27 March 2006 (BST)
**I thought I'd made them fairly rare (after the initial burst of finding them) but I think I made them too rare perhaps. There are still only 4 people with them, looks like the same 4 who had them originally. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 00:01, 8 April 2006 (BST)
**Do you even have one Simon? --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 00:17, 8 April 2006 (BST)
**Nope. No heavy sword for any of my characters. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:18, 8 April 2006 (BST)
*The original poster is correct about rifles/blowpipes being too weak. The rifle's AP/damage ratio is actually much lower than even the machete's, let alone the mysterious heavy sword. The rifle's accuracy is its edge, but 60% maximum accuracy really isn't *that* high or that much of an advantage over the 45% machete accuracy. The introduction of two new skills to the firearms skill tree, "Marksmanship" and "Expert Marksmanship", each of which would add 10 or 15% to rifle/blowpipe accuracy, would help to solve this problem I would say (I dont know if anything like this has been proposed before). Dont remove the heavy sword, just make rifles more powerful. -[[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 01:29, 8 April 2006 (BST)
* With the addition of the forgotten blowpipe skills, that should help the blowpipe ratio, and I'd say ignore the heavy sword since it seems so rare that you'll be lucky to get one unless someone trades one in for some essential supplies. Not sure about 80% accuracy with either of the ranged weapons - would those skills be available to all or just as an extension to firearms/blowpipe training? What happens to the blowpipe damage if the poisoning suggestion is implemented and the poison effect is added that takes away 1-5 HP over the next 5 AP unless you use serum or first aid kit (damage numbers not definite, just a rough figure)? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:18, 8 April 2006 (BST)
**I was thinking that the new skill(s) would be part of the ranged weapon skill tree (how can one be a marksman if he does not have firearms training). I like the idea of making a ranged skill available to all though. A maximum accuracy of 20% for all non-soldier/warrior characters seems very low. Maybe the first skill in the tree should be available to all, but the next 2 or 3 skills only for soldiers/warriors? Just an idea. -[[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 02:50, 12 April 2006 (BST)
* I think adding one skills for rifle and one for blowpipe is really cool. Marksmanship is a nice name , but not to add accuracy, but to add +2 to damage. Poisoning for blowpipe go well too. Oh, and one of my swords is gone ç__ç. And about trading, i tried to trade one of them , but the trader didn't have 49 gold coins..and i think you can add some powerful and rare rifle--[[User:JonesDye|JonesDye]] 08:42, 10 April 2006 (BST)
* Currently the rifle (w/both skills) gets only 0.75 damage/AP total (searching, loading, and shooting) based on my calculation, and 3 damage/AP in combat (only shooting). The machete (w/all three skills) gets 1.35 damage/AP and obviously requires no searching or loading. I think that new skill(s) for the rifle/blowpipe to get their damage/AP ratio closer to (but not equal to or past) the 1.35 machete ratio would be the best way to go. If a new skill or two increases ranged damage by 2 as JonesDye suggested, the result would be a ratio of 1.05 total damage/AP, and 4.2 damage/AP in combat. (If skills are added to increase maximum accuracy to 80%, the result would be 1 total damage/AP and 4 damage/AP in combat.) This, I think, would be a better balance. Ranged weapons should be superior to the machete in combat, and they are, but currently they are only 2.2 times better (3 vs. 1.35). The proposed new combat ratio of ~4 damage/AP would be three times better than the machete in combat, although still inferior in total damage/AP ratio. (Note that the combat ratios mentioned above are exact, but the total damage/AP ratios are not exact because I do not know the % chance to find ammunition. The total damage/AP numbers used above assume that a total of 5 bullets can be found in 10 searches on average, which may be a liberal estimate but seemed accurate based on my experience.) -[[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 02:50, 12 April 2006 (BST)
**Still, 3 damage per AP isn't that bad. You can track someone down, kill someone outright in ~25 AP with a rack of rifles, and run far away -- whereas a machete might take 60 AP to cause ~81 damage. The blowpipe needs a lot of help: you can only carry half as many loaded pipes, and so you have to waste time in combat reloading. I believe that blowdart poison could cause another 1 dmg/turn for 4 turns (8 damage total if they don't heal) and it still wouldn't be overpowered. 20% to hit is totally useless, though. I would suggest something like a 20% -> 35% marksman upgrade for all classes, then 35% -> 50% -> 65% for soldier/warrior. Unless a non-soldier can attain a 35% or 40% to-hit rate with a rifle (higher with a blowpipe), the weapon serves absolutely no purpose -- it is just a glorified 1/3-gem. And if the heavy sword has the same break rate as other blades in the game, then there is no problem with a 1/3000 find rate or whatever. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 05:59, 10 May 2006 (BST)
*As long as the heavy sword is extremely rare and quite powerful, why not replace it with a single "elephant sword", or something with a similarly grand title. There would only be one on the island (or one per village: "The Elephant Sword of York", etc.), its carrier would not be able to drop it (or, if dropped, it would be given to the next player revived by that village's shaman), players would get a special message upon being attacked by it, and it would change possession to the player who would kill its carrier. Also, its carrier should get a movement penalty so they'll be easier to catch. (And perhaps every person should have a sixth sense to divine the location of their village's Elephant Sword.) In short, if the sword is going to be rare, ''make it special''. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)
*I personally like the idea of having super weapons in shartak but rather than just being able to find it lying around, you should only be able to get by doing something specific (as reward for quests perhaps). Personally I like the idea a secret shop(s) (see my secret shop suggestion) where you could purchase a heavy sword and/or other hard to get items at hyper-inflated prices in the range of 100 to 1000 gold coins for one.----

=== Ranged weapons ===

I never used a rifle, but the blowpipe feels quite useless at the moment indeed (unless it poisons). I was wondering if a ranged aspect could be added to those weapons to make up for their poor hp/ap ratio and their ammo requirement (and their lack of poison?). In practice, that would mean that once the rifle (or the blowpipe (I wonder if it poisons)) is selected from the attack drop-down menu, the target drop-down menu would include the entities from the surrounding squares. That would allow for some slightly safer attacks, especially in difficult terrain, or for around four minutes of triumph for having attacked someone from the distance (and poisonned him?), before being machetted to death anyway. That is: not much, but the satisfying feeling to have used a special weapon, with its own pros. -- Leaf
* Ranged weapon skills for warriors to boost the blowpipe are in the pipeline. Seems I missed a section from my notes when adding skills. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 10:12, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
* Sweet --[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 06:34, 14 March 2006 (GMT)
**A bit of poison on that blowdart (1 hp dmg per move for 4 turns e.g.) would be nice. The current blowpipe is totally hopeless as a weapon, even for warriors. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:22, 20 May 2006 (BST)
:* ''bump'' - like the poison added the other day then. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:44, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
::* Yep, Blowpipe is not longer useless. If you wanted to add a limited benefit of range, you could have the Blowpipe and the Rifle deal damage to Animals as a ranged effect. In other words, the elephant couldn't trample you because you're hiding in the Jungle with your ranged weapon (still in same square). In fact that might make more sense than (or in addition to) a 6 damage blowpipe vs NPCs - NPCs don't get to use Reactive Attacks against a Ranged Weapon. (Although perhaps the Huts/Villages are too small to get true Range on the Trader or Shaman...) --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 14:33, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
:::* (Game designer has implied that ranged weapons do indeed reduce the chance of being reactively attacked by an animal. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 23:24, 10 July 2006 (UTC))
----

===studded leather & war gear===
both items have the same effect, except one is for outsiders and one is for natives, upon looking at the names, i cant really tell which would be for who, but that doesnt matter.
theese items could act likee flak jackets, but could (possibly) have the chance of inflicting damage upon being hit, as per, a guy with tons of knives on him being punched would probably cut up his assailant's hands. {{unsigned|Richard Rose|04:59, March 29, 2006 (BST)}}

*Hm. I don't like the idea of inflicting damage on the assailant. I think that's a bit of a stretch. I could see outsiders coming over with breastplates and whatnot (a la John Smith, be it the noble stud from ''Pocahontas'' or the weaselly entrapeneur from history). Natives, though, would be unlikely to have that much. Perhaps, though, a wooden, oblong, leaf-shaped shield. Perhaps it would give a small (10%?) chance of blocking a melee attack. Thus, both sides would have a form of protection, but they would be ''different'' forms of protection, serving to distinguish the two sides.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 08:31, 10 April 2006 (BST)
----

===animal wearings===
such as teeth and hide could be added to one's [[inventory]] or slot for extra damage, accuracy, etc.. {{unsigned|Richard Rose|04:59, March 29, 2006 (BST)}}

*Honestly, this just seems silly. Why would I suddenly hurt you more for having a tiger tooth in my pocket?--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 08:32, 10 April 2006 (BST)

:*It would be a psychological effect. A tribesman who believes that the spirit of the tiger is strengthening his arm through the use of a magic talismen will fight harder. {{unsigned|Naomi|19:56, April 10, 2006 (BST)}}

::*I ''still'' think it's a huge stretch.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:08, 11 April 2006 (BST)

:::*Yah, shamanic magic being able to cause or prevent damage is a stretch, tell that to the dozens of spirits farming xp in my hut. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:25, 20 May 2006 (BST)

:::Apparently this has been implemented - I just got a tiger tooth amulet from the pirate trader. He doesn't have any others, alas... *brag* [[User:Ssarl|Ssarl]], 12:19, June 16

----

===Messenger Pigeons===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=New item|
suggest_scope=All outsiders|
suggest_description=Allows Outsiders to send messages over long distances. Just type up the message and enter the recepient's name and the bird flies off.
''You watch your pigeon fly off and hope it doesn't get intercepted.''
 Pigeons must be captured with an unamed skill and may be intercepted with a separate skill.|
suggest_time=22:23, 9 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

*How would you handle said "interception?" Would you be notified of pigeons sent off within a certain number of squares, and offered a chance to stop it? Would it show up as an actual animal that one could kill? I would say that the idea of sending a messenger pigeon along as a new, low-hp NPC with a specific destination is neat, but I don't know how hard it would be on the server.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 08:35, 10 April 2006 (BST)
*Moving an npc pigeon wouldn't be difficult as long as there were only a limited number of them in play at any one time. How would you specify the destination though - pigeons need to know the destination don't they (not sure how homing pigeons work)? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 14:38, 10 April 2006 (BST)
**Mmm. Maybe one would need to specify a GPS coordinate? Actually, I'm fairly certain that birds have been taught to find specific people that they are familiar with. Perhaps once we have a contacts list (do we? If so, I haven't been able to add anyone) we can send it to those listed on it? Then it would be rather like the mobile phone of UD... except that it takes time to travel, and could be killed for EXP by other players :) What kind of limit would you have in mind, by the way? I mean, I can't imagine a whole lot of people using this often enough for it to really be a problem, but as the game grows... You never know.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:12, 11 April 2006 (BST)
**I would say that you would have to have a the person on a contact list before you can send them a messenger pigeon. The pigeon would move like 1 square per 5 mins and would appear as an attackable animal. The limit is that there are only so many pigeons in Shartak. You would have to have a skill to capture one without killing it. This skill could also be used to capture a messenger pigeon without killing it in order to "intercept" the message. Or perhaps tehy are different skills? Pigeons would be reusable. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 01:27, 11 April 2006 (BST)
*Capturing and intercepting pigeons seems quite unrealistic. Instead, maybe you could give each village a communications hut with infinite pigeons, available to people from that village. Pigeons in inventory could be sent up with a message, and after some time they'd appear in their home villages and their messages would be held for their recipients. I like the drum idea better, though. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)

}}

===Drum===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=New item|
suggest_scope=All Natives|
suggest_description=Allows all Natives within a specified area to hear the senders message. Any Outsiders hear random drum beats unless they have the Expert Language skill.
''You hear random drumming in the distance.''
 Requires a drum beating skill to utilize.|
suggest_time=22:35, 9 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

A drum language? Neat. I would make it a native-only skill, though (how difficult would it be for an outsider to learn ''of'' the language, let alone the language itself?), and only one skill. Also, to show the difficulty of true articulation in such a language, it would be good to lower the character limit on drum messages. This way, long messages will be broken up, and will require a bit more AP.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 08:40, 10 April 2006 (BST)

:Awesome. A great idea to help underpowered natives (no bottles of water in native villages, terrible blowpipe, no gps, outnumbered, etc.) and also a cool new rare item. Doesn't appear abusable. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:27, 20 May 2006 (BST)

:I like this idea and think it should be open to Natives only, for the reasons [[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] gave. Also, it stands to reason that Natives should have some kind of communication advantage, being Natives on the island and everything. Messages should have to be extremely short, or else there should be increasing AP costs for longer messages (1 AP per character, perhaps?). Think of Morse code. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)

::I'm thinking that drums could be to natives what GPS units are to outsiders in terms of cost, usefulness, and skill requirements. Here's how it works in my mind:
::#All natives, and outsiders with ''Native Knowledge'', can drum a message for 1 AP per character. Outsiders without ''Native Knowledge'' either (1) have their beats carry a shorter distance or (2) have a 20% chance of breaking their drum. (I prefer the second option, assuming drums would be expensive items. I'd rather have drums be completely off-limits for such outsiders, but I can't think of a realistic reason for them to be unable to bang on a drum.)
::#Only natives, and outsiders with ''Native Knowledge'', can determine the direction of a beat. (Bass noises are the hardest to pinpoint.)
::#Only players on the same side as the drummer, and players on the other side with language skills, can interpret beats, as with all other communication in the game. (Unskilled listeners hear "random drumming" instead of "<garbled message>", since extremely short messages will be quite common and language obfuscation doesn't touch the first letter of a word. ''Basic Language'' gives a 33% chance to interpret the message, ''Advanced Language'' 66%, and ''Expert Language'' 100%.)
::#Every beat is audible to everyone in the 13 by 13 square with the drummer at its center. (13 by 13 is just large enough to cover an entire camp, and camps should be communication hubs, after all.)
::In general, this item would benefit natives about as much as GPS units benefit outsiders. The hearing radii and AP costs of messages could be changed easily if drums became too powerful, annoying, or ineffective. And yes, I've played Urban Dead. =)
::— [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 22:54, 9 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Hammer===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=New Item|
suggest_scope=Available to all characters|
suggest_description=A basic hammer. This item seems necessary for potential future building skills such as roads or huts or hut fortifications. Hammers could also be used as offensive weapons. They could also be subject to random breaking like machetes.|
suggest_time=06:18, 1 May 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Throgonuts|Throgonuts]]|
suggest_comments=

I don't think we need another weapon until there's an actual niche for it to fill. I think hut-building would be great — require that all 8 surrounding jungle squares be cleared before one can be built, make huts destructable by melee weapons or by growing jungle in the immediate area, and turn standard medical/ammunition/trading huts into indestructable stone structures — but we don't need a hammer now. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)

}}

===303===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=new item|
suggest_scope=availible to only outsiders|
suggest_description=a 303's nickname is actually: elepahant rifle,[in real life],a 303 is able to blow a elephants head of 1 shot in the neck i am suggesting this for the further success of the CP against the reefer terror cell,though it could turn against us if lord paul reefer get's his hands on it or one of his group members!.

Damage: 15, special dmg: 16.|
suggest_time=15,25, 17 June, 2006 (EST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Riddick|Riddick]]|
suggest_comments=

No. Hell, I can scarcely understand what you're trying to suggest here. I can see that it's ridiculously powerful, though.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:01, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Berries to Increase AP===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Change item's effect|
suggest_scope=Tasty berries (or similiar item)|
suggest_description=There are so many HP-healing items in the game, most of which heal only 1 or 2 HP so are not cost-effective to use (In terms of AP-spent-per-HP-healed), therefore are not used at all by wise players. To make some of these items more valuable and add an interesting dynamic to the game, I suggest that the effect of eating berries should be to increase your AP level rather than you HP level. Eat some tasty berries, they invigorate you and you gain 2 AP (you spent one AP eating them, net gain of 1 AP). All of the long-time players have been in the situation I'm sure (and most newer players too), where we are about to kill an elephant or tiger or an enemy player for that matter, but we run out of AP just as the target is at 3 HP, then we have to go off-line and cant wait about for 20 minutes to finish the target off, as we have real-life obligations (while we are gone the target invariably escapes, is killed by someone else, or kills you!). So carrying around 5 bunches of tasty berries could give you 5 free AP when you really need them. Thus berries would become a very valuable item in the game too, rather than a superfluous item|
suggest_time=00:47, 21 June 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Arminius|Arminius]]|
suggest_comments=

Comment here

I like the idea! You're probably going to end up with a net loss of APs on them anyway, but it's kinda like storing APs... This could work well. -[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 10:54, 21 June 2006
:Exactly, you would definitely have a net loss of AP finding them. There would also be net loss of AP buying them in the trading hut, and once people catch on to how valuable they are they would become tremendously expensive (demand would overwhelm supply), making for an even bigger net loss of AP buying them. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:40, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I could certainly see it getting out of hand. You'd need to cut it off at a certain point. Maybe 5 is about right.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:03, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
:Why would there need to be a cut-off? Even if someone is carrying 50 bunches of berries (which they will have spent many days worth of AP searching for on berry-bush squares), they will get their 50 extra AP and then it's all gone. With a full 75 AP and with 50 bunches of berries, a person could use 125 AP within a few minutes. If theoretically two 80-HP enemies are standing on the person's same exact square, odds are he can kill both with 5 AP to spare, but now all his berries are gone. I would agree that carrying 50 bunches of berries is pretty ridiculous, but again the person will have spent many days searching for them, a tremendous net loss of possible damage inflicted if he had just used all those hundreds of AP he spent searching, attacking. And even in that extreme example all he can do is inflict 160 damage and then his berry supply is used up, So I dont think it is necessarily "out of hand". Besides, anyone who does such a thing (spends days finding 50 berries and goes and uses them all at once) is an idiot and a very poor player, the berries would be valuable to be used when you really desperatrely need them, when you are out of AP about to get a kill or maybe in some other limited way (as MorkaisChosen said, it is a way to store AP), not in that way. If you are worried about people camping berry bushes to get lots of AP-boosting berries, see below (and remember that some people do the same for first aid kits anyway). [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:40, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
::The above remarks would be accurate if the AP-booster item was "invigorating herbs" found with an 8% rate in the Grasslands or something. However, berries have a 55% find rate (perhaps higher for villager), so 50 berries take at most two days to collect. Unless your character is a PKer who can attack anything that moves, the berry-buff would become very valuable for increasing combat efficiency. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 17:37, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
:::Since this would be a radical change for berries, yes the find rates should be changed. The AP-giving item doesnt even have to be berries, my original sugegstion was "berries or similiar item". I think it should be berries because there are berry bushes all over the island, rather than gerasslands which are only in one part of the island(?). [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 23:55, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

A comment I have is that this would make berry bushes genuinely valuable, but it is probably not desirable to have everyone camp the berry bushes, that's boring. Fortunately this problem is already solved by something Simon implemented very early on--berry bushes dry up and new ones are discovered all the time (it might be advisable to increase the rate at which they dry up and new ones pop up for this). [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:40, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
:Not sure where you got this idea from, bushes are static.. for now! --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 01:00, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
::I could've sworn I've seen writings in the jungle making references to trees which are not there anymore, e.g. "this mango tree is claimed by John Doe", but there is no tree in the square. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 23:55, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, as pointed out, it would take two days of camping a berry bush to get 70 berries, the maxiumum that can be stored (unless the idiot's walking around with no weapons). However, you'd only get one day of extra combat from it. You're actually losing time that way. If you're really worried, make bushes drop two types of berries, HP restorers and AP restorers. Lower the find rates for both to match the current find rate. I assume this wouldn't be hard. Huts already drop multiple varieties of items. I'd also like to point out that this system is already in place in KoL. They just set a maximum you can eat before you get full to keep the system from being abused. Would that be hard to code? --[[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]] 14:18, 13 July 2006
 
it's not worth it,eating a berry costs one action point(s),and every berry gives you 1 AP so really you would just be left on the same AP you were on before you ate the berry! [[User:Eminem1|Eminem1]] 01:03, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
:It would give 2 AP, you would spend 1 AP to eat it, so you would gain 1 AP. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 23:55, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Personally i like the idea getting free XP item so how about this; have one and only one item (say buncha berries) gives 1XP costs 1AP, but you can eat it whenever you want. this would pretty much reduce the number of people who are going to farm (as the chance of getting that one item consistently is comparatively low), it would make a welcome change to searches.--[[User:A for anarchy|A for anarchy]] 05:14, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
:I think you are confused here, the topic at hand is not gaining free XP, but "storing AP" as MorkaisChosen put it. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 23:55, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Camera/Spirit box===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Ranged weapon|
suggest_scope=Those plagued by banshees and those interested in scaring natives|
suggest_description=In just about every meeting of natives and cameras it is believed that the cameras are able to steal some of their spirit. On Shartak this is for sure and it also works on the dead. The camera is able to capture some of a person's spirit causing 3 points of damage. If the shot kills them they are trapped in the camera until they revive for X extra AP. If the user has Sixth Sense they may capture a spirit in the same way. The camera uses rolls of film with 5 shots each. Scientists have special photography skills increasing their chance of capture. Natives must have Outsider knowledge to use the camera. Otherwise it will appear as Spirit box in their inventory. (Possible native equivelent could be something like a voodoo doll)|
suggest_time=04:11, 23 July 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]]|
suggest_comments=

I like this! It rally does fit in for me... Plus it allows my clan to do some REAL research on Spirits by taking pictures. And, of course... Who you gonna call? [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 10:58, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't want to seem impolite, and I don't want to discourage people from making creative suggestions, which this certainly is. However, I'm not so sure about this. After all, cameras don't REALLY hurt people. Also, cameras, to me, don't fit with the time period in Shartak, like GPS units. There are already suggestions to change the GPS unit to something else. I don't think adding another piece of relatively advanced technology will help. Cameras have been around maybe 100 years? Shartak seems to take place in the 1700's or so, a little too early. Long story short, I don't think it fits. That's just my opinion, however. [[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]]
:Just to remind you that this is a fictional game not set anywhere or anytime in paticular and what may not fit in reality may fit great in a game(Shartak ghosts? Urban Dead zombies?). In fact sometimes doing the impossible is what makes these games fun. (The Royal Expedition claims that it is 1906) --[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 21:16, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

i agree with idea that we should do something about ghosts, but the idea of trapping "ghosts" in cameras not so much, cause ghosts are players too and costing them extra AP for escape compounded with the AP cost of reviving, would seriously affect their gameplay.--[[User:A for anarchy|A for anarchy]] 03:40, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I really like this idea, although it shouldn't be used for hurting live players, instead capturing spirits who are farming xp in a resource hut. Then, rather than spending AP to escape, they should only have the option to revive (Perhaps at an increased cost)--[[User:Zydd Soral|Zydd Soral]] 16:55, 25 July, 2006

Compared to exorcism, capturing spirits in a camera seems really silly and would make the game seem the same way. Maybe it'd be like introducing soap as an item that could deal damage to pirates: funny, but absurd and out of place in a role-playing game. Some elements of fantasy are acceptable in such games, but others, like this one, are too hard to swallow. But it's a clever idea. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 17:27, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
:Exorcism sounds like a really silly thing to me (holding up a symbol and saying some silly words is going to repel a ghost?). Plus it is very cliche and I don't think a scientist would be the kind of person who would do it. We don't have an outsider religious class in this game dispite the suggestions for it. The true equivelent of your antipirate soap would be a vacuum cleaner like in ghost busters.--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 21:16, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
::I have to disagree with you, Darkferret. If you're going to accept spirits, then you might as well accept exorcism. After all, practically every culture I've heard of that believes in spirits also believes in having some way to banish them. Additionally, there IS a religious class on the native side: the shaman. I agree the scientist is ill-suited for exorcism, but something can undoubtedly be worked out.[[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]] 19:38, 28 July 2006
:::Repeling a player counts as movement that does not use their AP which defies the Free Lunch Principle. Capture and captive player escape via revival is Free Lunch complient. Besides the outsiders already have too many classes and scientists need unique science related skills.--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 21:25, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

A Spirit Box could work as a kind of special wooden box with charms or religious symbols on it, but maybe not as a camera. [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 10:38, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:What would the roll of film equivalent be?--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 21:16, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

}}
===Subitems===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Divisable items|
suggest_scope=FAKs and Healing herbs|
suggest_description=When someone uses a FAK they usually don't use all of it. They may need a bandage but not the antitoxin. Instead of dumping it we could keep the unused parts much like we keep our containers. I suggest we divide the kit into 3-4 parts that separate when a kit is not completely used: Bandage for HP (possibly small[2-4HP] & large[3-6HP]), Antitoxin for Poisonous snake bites and Poison darts (possibly HP from Bunch of poisonous berries and Salt water if balanceable), and Stitching kit for Shark bite. I am not sure about the names of Healing herbs' subitems.|
suggest_time=22:28, 12 August 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]]|
suggest_comments=

Comment here

}}

User talk:Arminius

2006-08-26T23:59:53Z

Arminius: /* Deletion proposals */

Thanks for getting our Shaman info back online. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 10:04, 16 May 2006 (BST)

==Redirect==
''This message is in response to the message posted [[User_talk:Wifey#Redirect|here]].''

You're right. Which is why I didn't link to [[Items#Bottle of beer]]. I linked to [[Items#Bottle of Beer]].--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:30, 18 May 2006 (BST) '''Edit:''' Now that's odd. Why does it work here, bu not on the redirect? I know it always ''used'' to work on the redirects...--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:34, 18 May 2006 (BST)

==Search Odds==
*I agree with your suggestions for Class "codes" (i.e. simply putting the name in full).
*Also I'd request that you put complete info when you do searches (e.g. Medical Hut). Otherwise the detritus is hard to track, and it can be important: in the past two days I've picked up 3 GPS units from Medical Hut searches and I think that is due to a recent change (used to be 0% GPS in Medical Huts, imho).
*400 ammo hut searches puts the non-scav find rate at 39.8% -- far enough away from 1-in-3 that I'm guessing 40% non-scav / 60% scav in Ammo Huts. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 02:44, 18 May 2006 (BST)

==Search Odds Data Collection format==
My request for comments about using tables is the first section of [[Talk:Search odds condensed]]. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 20:19, 31 May 2006 (BST)
:I noticed your confusion on [[Talk:Search odds condensed]]... What formats work for you to submit your data most easily? In my opinion, the longhand text format has continuing problems with inconsistent, incomplete, and/or inaccurate data entries, and a well-designed table could make data entry easier and more accurate. I think that a separate table for the Medical Hut (for example) would be very easy to submit to, since there are only half a dozen items found there. Your opinions are welcome. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 07:16, 15 June 2006 (BST)

== Special weapon event odds ==

I just created the page ''[[Special weapon event odds]]'' in the hopes that we'll be able to approximate odds for weapon breakage, dullage, and extra-damage-age as you and others have for searches. Any time you can invest in the project will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 12:03, 21 May 2006 (BST)

 
 
 

==Damage-to-AP ratio calculations==
===Proposal for new rifle skill tree===
''The marksmanship skills would be available to all, firearms training skills would continue to be available only to soldiers.'' 
* Marksmanship – Gain 10% on firearms attacks 
** Expert Marksmanship – Gain 20% on firearms attacks [thus with these two skills a non-soldier would have 50% accuracy] 
*** Firearms Training – Gain 10% on firearms attacks and gain proficiency in handling rifle [0.5 AP to load] 
**** Advanced Firearms Training – Gain 10% on firearms attacks and gain ''better'' proficiency in handling rifle [0 AP to load]
 OR 
* Marksmanship – Gain 10% on firearms attacks 
** Expert Marksmanship – Gain 20% on firearms attacks 
* Firearms Training – Gain 10% on firearms attacks and gain proficiency in handling rifle [0.5 AP to load] 
** Advanced Firearms Training – Gain 10% on firearms attacks and gain ''better'' proficiency in handling rifle [0 AP to load] 
===Current Ratios===
''Soldiers'' 
60 AP searching ammo hut ([[Search_odds_results#Ammo_Hut_.28Outsider.29|documented 23% bullet find rate]]) 
--find 14 bullets 
load 14 bullets in 14 AP 
Fire 14 bullets in 14 AP (60% maximum accuracy) 
--Hit 8.4 times at 5 damage = 42 damage inflicted in 88 AP = '''0.48 damage inflicted/total AP spent''' 
Combat ratio = 42 damage inflicted / 14 AP spent firing = '''3.0 damage inflicted/AP spent ''in combat'''''
 
''Non-Soldiers w/o Scavenging'' 
60 AP searching ammo hut 
--find 14 bullets (documented 23% bullet find rate) 
load 14 bullets in 14 AP 
Fire 14 bullets in 14 AP (20% maximum accuracy) 
--Hit 2.8 times at 5 damage = 14 damage inflicted in 88 AP = '''0.16 damage inflicted/total AP spent''' 
Combat ratio = 14 damage inflicted / 14 AP spent firing = '''1.0 damage inflicted/AP spent ''in combat'''''
 

===Ratios with the proposed skill tree===
''Soldiers'' 
60 AP searching ammo hut (documented 23% bullet find rate) 
--find 14 bullets 
load 14 bullets in 0 AP (loading takes 0 AP with proposed skill) 
Fire 14 bullets in 14 AP (70% maximum accuracy) 
--Hit 9.8 times at 5 damage = 49 damage inflicted in 74 AP = '''0.66 damage inflicted/total AP spent''' 
Combat ratio = 49 damage inflicted / 14 AP spent firing = '''3.5 damage inflicted/AP spent ''in combat'''''
 
''Non-Soldiers w/o Scavenging'' 
60 AP searching ammo hut (documented 23% bullet find rate) 
--find 14 bullets 
load 14 bullets in 14 AP 
Fire 14 bullets in 14 AP (50% maximum accuracy) 
--Hit 7 times at 5 damage = 35 damage inflicted in 88 AP = '''0.40 damage inflicted/total AP spent''' 
Combat ratio = 35 damage inflicted / 14 AP spent firing = '''2.5 damage inflicted/AP spent ''in combat'''''
 
'''For comparison:''' Machete with all relevant skills, combat ratio and total ratio (they are the same): '''1.35 damage/AP spent''' --Note that the damage-per-total-AP-spent ratios above are artificially high, and in practice they would be lower. This is because the rifle damage-to-AP ratios do not take into account the inevitable AP spent travelling to and from ammunition huts to restock on bullets.

 
 
 
:::::''The above is a a supplement for the discussion on the proposed Marksmanship skill: [[Suggestions:Skills#Marksmanship]]'' -[[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 01:34, 2 June 2006 (BST)

== Deletion proposals ==

I responded to your June 14 comment on [[Category talk:Delete#Redirects]] a while back, and I'd be interested to hear your response. I don't plan on deleting anything without a consensus, but I would like to know what you recommend as guidelines for deciding what should and shouldn't be deleted (if you think anything, even potential pages, should be deleted at all). — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 03:18, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
:I don't see why any of those redirects should be deleted. The more redirects, the better! [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 23:59, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Suggestions:Items

2006-08-26T23:55:03Z

Arminius: /* Berries to Increase AP */

{{Suggestions header|page_type=Item}}

== Items ==

=== Absinth ===
Could have a very low chance of being found, and would display as "Bottle of absinth" (in addition to the existing "Bottle of beer" and "Bottle of water"). Would result in a distortion of game display, showing some kind of living beings (native, outsiders or animals) as another kind (a native could be displayed as an outsider or an animal), causing the intoxicated character to attack people he wouldn't have attacked otherwise, or trying to role-play with an angry elephant. --[[User:Mad Robert|Mad Robert]] 03:53, 19 March 2006 (GMT)
*No reason to drink it then? --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 23:37, 19 March 2006 (GMT)
**I'm sure someone would drink it anyway. Could bring back some HP, of course... --[[User:Mad Robert|Mad Robert]] 23:50, 19 March 2006 (GMT)
*The whole "distortion of game display" thing sounds too complicated. If it's a powerful enough hallucinogen, it could work as a teleporter to a random nearby location ("As the effects of the absinthe wear off, you realize that you have moved to a different part of the jungle."). But I think it'd be better theme-wise to introduce a plant native to the island with such an effect; also, these "strange herbs" would give outsiders something to confuse healing herbs with. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 13:24, 21 May 2006 (BST)
----

=== Spear ===
It could be the native warriors main weapon, give it a base damage of 3, same to hit as machete but it wouldn't cut through jungle -- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 11:02, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
*A spear for stabbing or a spear for throwing (i.e single use) ? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:49, 25 February 2006 (GMT)
**I like the idea of a spear for stabbing. We have enough single use weapons in the game, already. What would make it so different from a blowgun, if it is throwable? Which brings up another question: With a weapon that deals 3 damage and is reusable, who will bother with a blowgun?--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 06:54, 29 March 2006 (BST)
*The machete is already better than the blowpipe if you've got the three melee upgrades, and the spear would represent a third melee weapon warriors like me would need to carry around (along with a knife for writing and a machete for chopping). I don't see a point, unless it's to compete with the heavy sword, in which case I'd recommend that the heavy sword be toned down. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 13:32, 21 May 2006 (BST)
*I like the idea of having the spear become the second “super” weapon in shartak, rather than increasing its damage potential its accuracy could be raised instead so that instead of 20 it could be 30 percent yet still have the same damage base of 2 like the cutlass/machete, while having other stats same or similar to the heavy sword. that would pretty much solve all the problems mentioned above--[[User:A for anarchy|A for anarchy]] 04:29, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
----

=== Head-shrinking powder ===
This could be either a melee or area weapon used by natives.

''Comments''
*What are the effects of it? Causes X HP of damage? Loss of AP? Loss of XP? Instant death? - [[User:Snarf|Snarf]]
**Could be used on a body to create a totem of some sort. This can then be placed in a square. People from the same village or settlement as the now shrunken head take twice as many AP to move through because of fear. Disintergrates after x number of people have moved through the square. {{unsigned|Hyper tyger|17:18, March 18, 2006 (BST) }}
----

=== Meat ===
Heals 2 HP. Used by both outsiders and tribals. It appears in your inventory when you kill a beastie. [[User:Bungalow Bill|Bungalow Bill]]

''Comments''
*But you can only carry 200 pounds of meat back to your wagon. <nowiki></oregontrail></nowiki> --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:15, 13 February 2006 (GMT)
*Or you have to cook it, taking one AP and possibly a fire-lighting skill (who wants to eat raw monkey?).[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 20:12, 20 February 2006 (GMT)
**Maybe you don't have to cook it but you get less HP and possibly lose HP to food poisoning. [DarkFerret]
*Or, to make it more, hm, tribal, you could need to bring it back to specific places in the village where it could be (instantaneously) cooked and used as a replenished "health pool" any player could use. You would still have the occasional berries to eat in the forest, but real meal would occure at a settlement. It would also provide a more efficient healing system (as currently, you roughly get to spend 50 AP to recover 4 or 5 HP, which makes death the most efficient way to restore your HP). -- Leaf
**''There is a large pot of stew cooking, it appears to be half full.''
***''You eat some and feel better. After a few spoonfuls you find your friend's pocket watch.'' [DarkFerret]
**Make it 1 HP per kg of meat (basing carcass size loosely on the animal's starting HP), and make each HP of carried meat fill 1 inventory space (and pretend preservation isn't a problem). Put an ever-boiling pot in each village (in a boring oudoor place; we could use more points of interest), and give people experience points whenever they contribute meat to any pot (more meat gives you more XP, and putting meat in the pot of your home village gives you extra (double?) XP). Omnipresent spices and palate differences could make food at Outsider villages inedible for Natives, and vice-versa. (Pirates ought to be able to eat from any pot, but for half the health benefit. Maybe they should even be able to eat meat raw.) Any non-meat added to the pot would simply disappear (and poison from poison berries would be broken up by the heat). This system would (1) encourage community, (2) increase realism (there's currently no realistic reason for a non-warrior to kill a non-threatening animal), and (3) provide another theme-fitting non-combat XP path. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)
***As per Elembis. For example, a meat item could be eaten raw for 1HP per 1 inventory space, or returned to a cooking pot (imho only in native camps...). Drinking from a cooking pot could restore 2HP, until "The pot is currently empty". Non-meat items could not be added to the cooking pot -- the game menu functionality would be limited by the user interface (for example, Add Meat to Cooking Pot doesn't appear or doesn't work until you have meat in inventory, and adds meat to the cooking pot when clicked). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 21:37, 16 June 2006 (BST)
***We should keep in mind that eating from a pot should heal faster than searching for and applying herbs and kits, or else players in need of healing won't bother. (6 searches per FAK/herb means 7 AP per 5/10 HP healed for non-scavengers, so 2 HP per bowl of food should be fine.) Also, I think that pots should treat pirates like normal outsiders, that all camps should have pots (since outsiders are surely capable of cooking meat), that the item should be "piece of meat", that the description for a square with a pot should read something like "There is a fire here with a large pot over it.", and that the button should read "Add Meat to Pot" (or perhaps that feature should just be linked to the "meat" button in the inventory list). — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 22:20, 16 June 2006 (BST)

----

=== Radio beacon/receiver ===
A radio beacon/receiver for outsiders to pinpoint specific locations of interest.

''Comments''
*What's wrong with using the GPS co-ordinates of a specific location? - [[User:Snarf|Snarf]]
*Perhaps a way to have GPS waypoints or markers IN one own's GPS? --[[User:Wcervantes|Wcervantes]] 19:39, 16 February 2006 (GMT)
----

=== Holy Scriptures ===
Used to convert Natives into Ousiders. Requires "Religious Devotion". Most likely found around Outsider settlements --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
*Nobody wants to have a class change againt their will. -Grigoriy
*Noone wants to die against their will either, but it does happen ;-) Might be irritating, but also might be quite interesting. It would have to be possible both ways of course, natives to outsiders and outsiders to natives. Perhaps the outsiders can convert natives to outsiders with holy scriptures using the religious devotion skill and natives can convert outsiders to natives with a bottle of beer using the seduction skill! ;-) --[[User:Murk|Murk]] 12:28, 4 March 2006 (GMT)
*Class conversion gets awfully mucky, when you consider available skills. I would say that a better idea would be for use of Holy Scriptures on a native to prompt the natives with an invitation to change sides--without changing class. This would make them see outsiders by name, make natives anonymous, and cause them to show up on the map as "1 convert" to outsiders (as opposed to "1 native") and as "1 traitor" to natives. Converting back would require a shaman with an equivalent skill (which can, of course, offer outsiders an opportunity to be accepted into native communities).
:Note, though, that I have no idea how difficult that would be to write in, given the existing code.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:01, 29 March 2006 (BST)
*Such a feature would allow anyone to change class bath and forth at will by just using another of their characters of the appropriate class to effect the conversion, which makes classes virtually pointless.
*Class conversion sounds bad. Religion might be interesting, but this seems like a messy and unpleasant way to include it. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)
----

=== GPS Unit (Redesign) ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Item, modification|
suggest_scope=GPS unit|
suggest_description=This is a suggestion to change the gps unit into an object that presumably fits better with the game setting. We currently have no other modern item available for use (anachronism - VOCABULARY WORD!). Perhaps we should use a sextant? And rather than reveal the position all of the time, it requires a 1 AP use in non-dense, non-enclosed area.|
suggest_time=21:48, 23 February 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

Yes, GPS units are indeed ''malapropos'' (another vocabulary word :D)--[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 00:33, 27 February 2006 (GMT)

Y'know, the "GPS Unit" item has stuck out like a sore thumb to me too. I'd be very much in favor of a lower-tech replacement, if only because it makes the game more timeless. But what tools ''did'' explorers of earlier eras use to measure latitude and longitude while traveling by land, anyway? And how accurate were they? Alternatively phrased: if you were trapped on a desert island without a GPS Unit, how would you estimate where you were? Lint's suggestion for a lower-tech replacement item, requiring AP and suitable terrain conditions for proper use, appeals to me. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:03, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

I've done some research into this and as Lint said, a sextant is what was used. Unfortunately though, a sextant doesn't do both longitude and latitude very quickly, you need charts/tables and several hours. See http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/longitude/secrets.html for info. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 14:55, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

: Ahh; yeah, I had just been checking out http://www.lewis-clark.org/content/content-article.asp?ArticleID=1268 myself. If I'm reading it right, it sounds like the bulk of the hours of calculation involved were due to being at sea and having to figure out what time zone you're in first as part of the equation. (Both pages mention a "chronometer" which was finally invented to try to solve that problem.) On land, though -- and especially on an island of Shartak's size -- you pretty much know where you are, and you're not likely to be crossing time zones. A quote from the Lewis & Clark page: "If time can be fixed along any meridian of longitude, then longitudinal distance can be determined by comparing time at that meridian with local time, usually based on the point at which the sun reaches its zenith." So. I wonder if we could fudge a bit with this sextant business by assuming that everyone on the island is able to determine what time it is on Shartak -- after all, we do get timestamped event messages! ;) -- and therefore we can apply that bit of knowledge to help determine longitude, overcoming the sextant's weakness. That could even go in the FAQ. I'm not really all that scientifically inclined, so please do feel welcome to correct me if if my thoughts are way off base. In closing, I still like Lint's ideas about making it cost AP and require suitable terrain. The former would represent the investment of time in setting up the equipment and doing the calculations. The latter would give players a reason to clear a square of jungle. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 16:07, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

:: That all sounds good. I think there is a skill in there as well - I don't suppose a sextant is as accurate as GPS, so why not have it not produce the same result all of the time? Someone with the "Skillful Sextant Supervisor" skill gets more accurate results. --[[User:Dr. J|Dr. J]] 16:17, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

: The AP cost of a sextant or other device could easily be added to the GPS unit by requiring that you 'use gps' to get the reading rather than it being on all the time. Whilst redesigning the GPS unit, how about thinking of something for natives to find out where they are - obviously not as accurate as a sextant, but something to guide them around or to specific locations. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 16:30, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

:: Just consider it a redesigned sextant that some mythical character dropped around the island and call it "Professor Inglewood's Speedy Sextant And Nano Tables" or some other such nonesense and leave it working the same, just with a different name. As for natives, maybe they could see/read totems at different points in the jungle, indicating where resources/towns are. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 17:06, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

:: Natives divine their position with animal feces. It can be a new skill ;) Actually, in all seriousness, perhaps something involving animal bones? It would need to be something mystical, as there just isn't a more primitive method than the sextant. That way, it sort of balances; you use animal bone dice for a few minutes to divine your position accurately, and outsiders sit dow nand use a sextant.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:08, 29 March 2006 (BST)

:: I'm currently of the opinion that the Natives don't need a version of the GPS. It helps a little with the mapping projects and location scripts. But my Shaman was just as lost than my gps-using Settler when I was traipsing through the Jungle. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:10, 30 March 2006 (BST)

::: So natives need a sensing skill that gives them direction and distance to the nearest village. Natives seem to flail at the beginning compared to outsiders: every outsider counterpart item/skill is stronger (especially gps, blowpipe vs rifle, and the lack of bottled water). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 05:43, 10 May 2006 (BST)

:::: How about giving Natives a 'always on' ability (like the GPS is now). They have been born and raised here, they _always_ know where they are (or perhaps it should be modified so that they always know where they are in relation to their village - ie, (201N, 34E of Wiksik). Make the GPS a sextant and require an AP to take a reading and perform the calculations. I would go so far as to suggest that it be tied to the Cartography skill or possibly an additional skill in the Cartography tree.[[User:Anothertwilight|Anothertwilight]] 06:20, 10 May 2006 (BST)

::::: I like this idea as well as Frisco's. Rename the GPS unit a sextant, keep its 0 AP use cost, and give all natives the ability to "Sense Position" for 1 AP and be told the direction and rough distance of the nearest village. ("After several minutes of attentive communion with the spirits, you sense that Raktam is about a day's journey north of here.") <s>Maybe even take the GPS away; the natives should know their way around better than the outsiders.</s> — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)

How about we just get ride of the gps unit in general and in its place have item called "a map and compass" and rather then being a 0AP cost item, it cost 1AP to tell the coordinates (exactly like an gps unit would) anywhere and gives no experience. --[[User:A for anarchy|A for anarchy]] 04:41, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

: Making a map an item would require the skills of ''exploration'' and ''cartography'' to be changed or eliminated, which I'd rather not do. Also, the grid-like map already gives us a compass of sorts, so a compass as an item, while interesting, wouldn't really do anything. And finally, a 1 AP use cost for the GPS unit / map and compass / sextant would probably result in the creation of a Greasemonkey script that would store one's coordinates in a cookie, modify them for each movement based on which "move" buttons was pressed, and show the resulting coordinates all the time (at no AP cost). I suppose this could be done already for players without a GPS unit (that is, you could anchor your coordinate system by finding a known hut or landmark and inputting its coordinates), but the GPS unit makes it a lot easier. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 16:54, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

}}

=== Refillable containers ===
Does it really make sense that after drinking something, you automatically discard the container it had been in? I propose a modification to the inventory system so bottles/gourds work similar to rifles and blowguns--they can be refilled if they are empty. Obviously, you can't just carry around spare water like you can ammo, so to refill a water container, you have to be in water. This would clearly make areas near water more popular, which I don't think is a bad thing, or without precedent. Furthermore, this could lead to new and interesting directions, such as other liquids that could be carried around, causing various effects. Off the top of my head:
* drinking too much "ocean" water will make you sick (reducing your hit % temporarily)
* a "create mysterious serum" skill the shaman/scientist can eventually learn that (along with certain ingredients) lets them create a "buff" potion.
* special healing water springs that have double the recuperative effect
This would also address one of the concerns I've had regarding healing skills. To my knowledge, there is no place in Shartak where you are more likely to consistantly find healing kits/herbs, etc. its all fairly random. By comparision, UD has certain buildings where you can only find certain items (i.e. hospitals = first aid kits). IMO, its currently too difficult/AP consuming to heal. Without a way to consistantly find/create healing items, it's not likely there will be "healers" willing to use their hard-to-find healing items on anyone else. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 22:14, 25 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
*Have you found the hut in Dalpok with all the drying herbs hanging up? Says something about a shaman being busy, I seem to have a reasonable success rate at finding healing herbs there. Not sure if there are more around. --[[User:Snarf|Snarf]] 22:17, 25 February 2006 (GMT)
**No, I hadn't noticed such a hut(s), I've assumed they were all pretty much the same. If certain huts are more likely to contain certain items, I've another suggestion--'''label them'''. Any opinion on my primary suggestion of refillable containers? --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 22:31, 25 February 2006 (GMT)
***I can confirm that huts may look identical on the outside, but their inside descriptions can differ significantly. Fortunately, anyone with the right tool can carve a message on a hut's outer walls, such as "Empty Inside" or "Shaman's Hut". --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:24, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
*Refillable containers? Give the user the choice to discard the container? Sure, sounds cool to me. About the water supply: I agree that ocean water (water right off the beach) would be bound to be salty and unpotable in a real-world scenario. According to the [[Locations]] page, there's a river off the south side of the mountain, which would seem to be the only known terrestrial fresh water source on the whole island. Hmm, a thought: If we were to have refillable containers, then might one also expect there to be wells in or around the villages? --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:24, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
**There is at least one more (much shorter) river near Derby. I'll bet there is a lake or two somewhere as well. Wells are probably not a bad idea. --[[User:Dr. J|Dr. J]] 15:05, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
***According to the [http://www.itechsc.com/misc/shartak/ubermap/ uber map] there are three lakes (two are close to each other) in addition to the river, and a pond by Durham. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)
* Refillable bottles and gourds added. Not sure about buff potions etc though. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 19:29, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
----

=== Remove uber sword of doom(aka heavy sword) ===
I don't even have a heavy sword yet but I can already tell(from the item page) that it makes a lot of things utterly useless.Just for reference the heavy sword is(when maxed attack skills) 45% hit, 5dam= '''2.25dam/ap'''. What does it make useless, well let me begin. 

1.Rifle skills- reason: the ap you spent getting the xp for those skills was better used searching for a heavy sword. 

2.Rifle- reason: the dam/ap for the rifle is lower than a the heavy sword '''before''' factoring in the search for ammo part. The math: the rifle is 5 dam,60% hit,1.5 ap/shot( 3ap per 2 shots i think)= (5*.6)/1.5 =3/1.5 = '''2ap/dam NOT FACTORING IN SEARCHING FOR AMMO'''.

3. The blowpipe- reason: the blowpipe sucks as it is, the machete makes it pointless(unless they actually poison) and the heavy sword just makes it absolute garbage(even if they poisoned). The math: 4 dam, 20% hit, 2ap/shot(assuming you have to reload after every shot i don't use the blowpipe so I wouldn't know)= (4*.2)/2=.8/2= '''.4 dam/ap NOT FACTORING IN SEARCHING FOR AMMO'''.

Conclusion- I realize there are problems with the blowpipe but as far as I can tell with the rifle there are none. The knowledge of there even being a heavy sword is enough to discourage those that would take rifles training as a skill. The sword is just too powerful to balance in game as the only way to balance it would be to add another item that is just as crazy powerful, making it rare does nothing to the balance as people can still find it and it makes those few ,whom the RNG loves, ridiculosly overpowered. If the RNG loves somebody they should get multipul hits in a row not the ability to destroy everybody who can't/doesn't want to waste the ap to gain that ability. And after all just because it is rare doesn't mean we all can't find it, I know eventually we would all find one and there would be no variaty whatsoever in battle. Take urban dead for example they balanced the shotguns,pistols, and fireaxe evenly so there is no superior choice its about how you want to play. With the heavy sword it makes all other items pale in comparison BEFORE search rates are keyed into calculations, in urban dead it is AFTER that they are about even. This suggestion to remove something doesn't punish anybody because as of right now we do not know where to find the heavy sword, the only ones were stumbled across randomly so nobody would really have "wasted" the ap to find it(unless they have but I know after reading a bit I didn't for the fun reducing factor everybody having one would bring). Also don't bring up things about how I don't know how it works ingame because unless it takes 6ap to attack the math shows it is unbalanced. Please Simon fix this unbalanced weapon by removing it, not by making everything else oh so much better. ANybody who is with me sign in the comments please.

'''Comments'''

*The math looks sound. And I agree that having everyone run around with Heavy Swords would make for a plain game. However, I don't see why it needs to be removed completely. Is there anything we can do to the sword mechanics to make it more even with the existing weapons? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:04, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
*I agree. The machete with maxed out melee skils is arguably better than any other weapon, and the heavy sword makes that look like a butter knife. Yank it or make it so rare it would be like winning the lottery twice. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 01:49, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
*I disagree with some of the logic in this argument. If the heavy sword were a common weapon, then I could understand the concern; however, the "über sword of doom" is hardly of such availability. As far as I know, only one player has the sword. Having rare items like it add a new dimension to the game - a sort of treasure hunting aspect. I would even propose that even more superior weapons are "hidden" around the island, possibly protected by superior animals. --[[User:Gandhi|Gandhi]] 00:34, 22 March 2006 (GMT)
** One player on the [[Game design]] page has commented on how he has acquired 3 Heavy Swords. Don't get me wrong, some weapons should be better than others to allow for diversity (that's why there's knives, daggers, and whatnot). However, as it stands, the Heavy Sword to our knowledge is the single best weapon available. Everyone is going to be running around with it and if you don't have one, you won't be able to compete. It'd be like playing Rock-Paper-Scissors-Nuclear Bomb and Nuclear Bomb always wins. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 00:52, 22 March 2006 (GMT)
*Are these even real? I mean, how many people claim to have gotten them? one? This almost looks like a pretty funny joke. Also, Simon has stayed silent on this, implying some sort of uber sword conspiracy, so perhaps we shouldn't rock the boat. (Cue up suspenseful music) -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 06:02, 22 March 2006 (GMT)
**i have 3 swords ,but i'm reading it's really rare. I feel really lucky :). Oh , and i think it's too powerful compared to other weapons. Maybe there must be other rare ranged weapons (like some 6 or 7 o 8 damage rifle) or something like this --[[User:JonesDye|JonesDye]] 09:38, 27 March 2006 (BST)
**I thought I'd made them fairly rare (after the initial burst of finding them) but I think I made them too rare perhaps. There are still only 4 people with them, looks like the same 4 who had them originally. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 00:01, 8 April 2006 (BST)
**Do you even have one Simon? --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 00:17, 8 April 2006 (BST)
**Nope. No heavy sword for any of my characters. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:18, 8 April 2006 (BST)
*The original poster is correct about rifles/blowpipes being too weak. The rifle's AP/damage ratio is actually much lower than even the machete's, let alone the mysterious heavy sword. The rifle's accuracy is its edge, but 60% maximum accuracy really isn't *that* high or that much of an advantage over the 45% machete accuracy. The introduction of two new skills to the firearms skill tree, "Marksmanship" and "Expert Marksmanship", each of which would add 10 or 15% to rifle/blowpipe accuracy, would help to solve this problem I would say (I dont know if anything like this has been proposed before). Dont remove the heavy sword, just make rifles more powerful. -[[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 01:29, 8 April 2006 (BST)
* With the addition of the forgotten blowpipe skills, that should help the blowpipe ratio, and I'd say ignore the heavy sword since it seems so rare that you'll be lucky to get one unless someone trades one in for some essential supplies. Not sure about 80% accuracy with either of the ranged weapons - would those skills be available to all or just as an extension to firearms/blowpipe training? What happens to the blowpipe damage if the poisoning suggestion is implemented and the poison effect is added that takes away 1-5 HP over the next 5 AP unless you use serum or first aid kit (damage numbers not definite, just a rough figure)? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:18, 8 April 2006 (BST)
**I was thinking that the new skill(s) would be part of the ranged weapon skill tree (how can one be a marksman if he does not have firearms training). I like the idea of making a ranged skill available to all though. A maximum accuracy of 20% for all non-soldier/warrior characters seems very low. Maybe the first skill in the tree should be available to all, but the next 2 or 3 skills only for soldiers/warriors? Just an idea. -[[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 02:50, 12 April 2006 (BST)
* I think adding one skills for rifle and one for blowpipe is really cool. Marksmanship is a nice name , but not to add accuracy, but to add +2 to damage. Poisoning for blowpipe go well too. Oh, and one of my swords is gone ç__ç. And about trading, i tried to trade one of them , but the trader didn't have 49 gold coins..and i think you can add some powerful and rare rifle--[[User:JonesDye|JonesDye]] 08:42, 10 April 2006 (BST)
* Currently the rifle (w/both skills) gets only 0.75 damage/AP total (searching, loading, and shooting) based on my calculation, and 3 damage/AP in combat (only shooting). The machete (w/all three skills) gets 1.35 damage/AP and obviously requires no searching or loading. I think that new skill(s) for the rifle/blowpipe to get their damage/AP ratio closer to (but not equal to or past) the 1.35 machete ratio would be the best way to go. If a new skill or two increases ranged damage by 2 as JonesDye suggested, the result would be a ratio of 1.05 total damage/AP, and 4.2 damage/AP in combat. (If skills are added to increase maximum accuracy to 80%, the result would be 1 total damage/AP and 4 damage/AP in combat.) This, I think, would be a better balance. Ranged weapons should be superior to the machete in combat, and they are, but currently they are only 2.2 times better (3 vs. 1.35). The proposed new combat ratio of ~4 damage/AP would be three times better than the machete in combat, although still inferior in total damage/AP ratio. (Note that the combat ratios mentioned above are exact, but the total damage/AP ratios are not exact because I do not know the % chance to find ammunition. The total damage/AP numbers used above assume that a total of 5 bullets can be found in 10 searches on average, which may be a liberal estimate but seemed accurate based on my experience.) -[[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 02:50, 12 April 2006 (BST)
**Still, 3 damage per AP isn't that bad. You can track someone down, kill someone outright in ~25 AP with a rack of rifles, and run far away -- whereas a machete might take 60 AP to cause ~81 damage. The blowpipe needs a lot of help: you can only carry half as many loaded pipes, and so you have to waste time in combat reloading. I believe that blowdart poison could cause another 1 dmg/turn for 4 turns (8 damage total if they don't heal) and it still wouldn't be overpowered. 20% to hit is totally useless, though. I would suggest something like a 20% -> 35% marksman upgrade for all classes, then 35% -> 50% -> 65% for soldier/warrior. Unless a non-soldier can attain a 35% or 40% to-hit rate with a rifle (higher with a blowpipe), the weapon serves absolutely no purpose -- it is just a glorified 1/3-gem. And if the heavy sword has the same break rate as other blades in the game, then there is no problem with a 1/3000 find rate or whatever. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 05:59, 10 May 2006 (BST)
*As long as the heavy sword is extremely rare and quite powerful, why not replace it with a single "elephant sword", or something with a similarly grand title. There would only be one on the island (or one per village: "The Elephant Sword of York", etc.), its carrier would not be able to drop it (or, if dropped, it would be given to the next player revived by that village's shaman), players would get a special message upon being attacked by it, and it would change possession to the player who would kill its carrier. Also, its carrier should get a movement penalty so they'll be easier to catch. (And perhaps every person should have a sixth sense to divine the location of their village's Elephant Sword.) In short, if the sword is going to be rare, ''make it special''. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)
*I personally like the idea of having super weapons in shartak but rather than just being able to find it lying around, you should only be able to get by doing something specific (as reward for quests perhaps). Personally I like the idea a secret shop(s) (see my secret shop suggestion) where you could purchase a heavy sword and/or other hard to get items at hyper-inflated prices in the range of 100 to 1000 gold coins for one.----

=== Ranged weapons ===

I never used a rifle, but the blowpipe feels quite useless at the moment indeed (unless it poisons). I was wondering if a ranged aspect could be added to those weapons to make up for their poor hp/ap ratio and their ammo requirement (and their lack of poison?). In practice, that would mean that once the rifle (or the blowpipe (I wonder if it poisons)) is selected from the attack drop-down menu, the target drop-down menu would include the entities from the surrounding squares. That would allow for some slightly safer attacks, especially in difficult terrain, or for around four minutes of triumph for having attacked someone from the distance (and poisonned him?), before being machetted to death anyway. That is: not much, but the satisfying feeling to have used a special weapon, with its own pros. -- Leaf
* Ranged weapon skills for warriors to boost the blowpipe are in the pipeline. Seems I missed a section from my notes when adding skills. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 10:12, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
* Sweet --[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 06:34, 14 March 2006 (GMT)
**A bit of poison on that blowdart (1 hp dmg per move for 4 turns e.g.) would be nice. The current blowpipe is totally hopeless as a weapon, even for warriors. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:22, 20 May 2006 (BST)
:* ''bump'' - like the poison added the other day then. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:44, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
::* Yep, Blowpipe is not longer useless. If you wanted to add a limited benefit of range, you could have the Blowpipe and the Rifle deal damage to Animals as a ranged effect. In other words, the elephant couldn't trample you because you're hiding in the Jungle with your ranged weapon (still in same square). In fact that might make more sense than (or in addition to) a 6 damage blowpipe vs NPCs - NPCs don't get to use Reactive Attacks against a Ranged Weapon. (Although perhaps the Huts/Villages are too small to get true Range on the Trader or Shaman...) --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 14:33, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
:::* (Game designer has implied that ranged weapons do indeed reduce the chance of being reactively attacked by an animal. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 23:24, 10 July 2006 (UTC))
----

===studded leather & war gear===
both items have the same effect, except one is for outsiders and one is for natives, upon looking at the names, i cant really tell which would be for who, but that doesnt matter.
theese items could act likee flak jackets, but could (possibly) have the chance of inflicting damage upon being hit, as per, a guy with tons of knives on him being punched would probably cut up his assailant's hands. {{unsigned|Richard Rose|04:59, March 29, 2006 (BST)}}

*Hm. I don't like the idea of inflicting damage on the assailant. I think that's a bit of a stretch. I could see outsiders coming over with breastplates and whatnot (a la John Smith, be it the noble stud from ''Pocahontas'' or the weaselly entrapeneur from history). Natives, though, would be unlikely to have that much. Perhaps, though, a wooden, oblong, leaf-shaped shield. Perhaps it would give a small (10%?) chance of blocking a melee attack. Thus, both sides would have a form of protection, but they would be ''different'' forms of protection, serving to distinguish the two sides.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 08:31, 10 April 2006 (BST)
----

===animal wearings===
such as teeth and hide could be added to one's [[inventory]] or slot for extra damage, accuracy, etc.. {{unsigned|Richard Rose|04:59, March 29, 2006 (BST)}}

*Honestly, this just seems silly. Why would I suddenly hurt you more for having a tiger tooth in my pocket?--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 08:32, 10 April 2006 (BST)

:*It would be a psychological effect. A tribesman who believes that the spirit of the tiger is strengthening his arm through the use of a magic talismen will fight harder. {{unsigned|Naomi|19:56, April 10, 2006 (BST)}}

::*I ''still'' think it's a huge stretch.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:08, 11 April 2006 (BST)

:::*Yah, shamanic magic being able to cause or prevent damage is a stretch, tell that to the dozens of spirits farming xp in my hut. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:25, 20 May 2006 (BST)

:::Apparently this has been implemented - I just got a tiger tooth amulet from the pirate trader. He doesn't have any others, alas... *brag* [[User:Ssarl|Ssarl]], 12:19, June 16

----

===Messenger Pigeons===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=New item|
suggest_scope=All outsiders|
suggest_description=Allows Outsiders to send messages over long distances. Just type up the message and enter the recepient's name and the bird flies off.
''You watch your pigeon fly off and hope it doesn't get intercepted.''
 Pigeons must be captured with an unamed skill and may be intercepted with a separate skill.|
suggest_time=22:23, 9 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

*How would you handle said "interception?" Would you be notified of pigeons sent off within a certain number of squares, and offered a chance to stop it? Would it show up as an actual animal that one could kill? I would say that the idea of sending a messenger pigeon along as a new, low-hp NPC with a specific destination is neat, but I don't know how hard it would be on the server.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 08:35, 10 April 2006 (BST)
*Moving an npc pigeon wouldn't be difficult as long as there were only a limited number of them in play at any one time. How would you specify the destination though - pigeons need to know the destination don't they (not sure how homing pigeons work)? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 14:38, 10 April 2006 (BST)
**Mmm. Maybe one would need to specify a GPS coordinate? Actually, I'm fairly certain that birds have been taught to find specific people that they are familiar with. Perhaps once we have a contacts list (do we? If so, I haven't been able to add anyone) we can send it to those listed on it? Then it would be rather like the mobile phone of UD... except that it takes time to travel, and could be killed for EXP by other players :) What kind of limit would you have in mind, by the way? I mean, I can't imagine a whole lot of people using this often enough for it to really be a problem, but as the game grows... You never know.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:12, 11 April 2006 (BST)
**I would say that you would have to have a the person on a contact list before you can send them a messenger pigeon. The pigeon would move like 1 square per 5 mins and would appear as an attackable animal. The limit is that there are only so many pigeons in Shartak. You would have to have a skill to capture one without killing it. This skill could also be used to capture a messenger pigeon without killing it in order to "intercept" the message. Or perhaps tehy are different skills? Pigeons would be reusable. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 01:27, 11 April 2006 (BST)
*Capturing and intercepting pigeons seems quite unrealistic. Instead, maybe you could give each village a communications hut with infinite pigeons, available to people from that village. Pigeons in inventory could be sent up with a message, and after some time they'd appear in their home villages and their messages would be held for their recipients. I like the drum idea better, though. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)

}}

===Drum===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=New item|
suggest_scope=All Natives|
suggest_description=Allows all Natives within a specified area to hear the senders message. Any Outsiders hear random drum beats unless they have the Expert Language skill.
''You hear random drumming in the distance.''
 Requires a drum beating skill to utilize.|
suggest_time=22:35, 9 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

A drum language? Neat. I would make it a native-only skill, though (how difficult would it be for an outsider to learn ''of'' the language, let alone the language itself?), and only one skill. Also, to show the difficulty of true articulation in such a language, it would be good to lower the character limit on drum messages. This way, long messages will be broken up, and will require a bit more AP.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 08:40, 10 April 2006 (BST)

:Awesome. A great idea to help underpowered natives (no bottles of water in native villages, terrible blowpipe, no gps, outnumbered, etc.) and also a cool new rare item. Doesn't appear abusable. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:27, 20 May 2006 (BST)

:I like this idea and think it should be open to Natives only, for the reasons [[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] gave. Also, it stands to reason that Natives should have some kind of communication advantage, being Natives on the island and everything. Messages should have to be extremely short, or else there should be increasing AP costs for longer messages (1 AP per character, perhaps?). Think of Morse code. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)

::I'm thinking that drums could be to natives what GPS units are to outsiders in terms of cost, usefulness, and skill requirements. Here's how it works in my mind:
::#All natives, and outsiders with ''Native Knowledge'', can drum a message for 1 AP per character. Outsiders without ''Native Knowledge'' either (1) have their beats carry a shorter distance or (2) have a 20% chance of breaking their drum. (I prefer the second option, assuming drums would be expensive items. I'd rather have drums be completely off-limits for such outsiders, but I can't think of a realistic reason for them to be unable to bang on a drum.)
::#Only natives, and outsiders with ''Native Knowledge'', can determine the direction of a beat. (Bass noises are the hardest to pinpoint.)
::#Only players on the same side as the drummer, and players on the other side with language skills, can interpret beats, as with all other communication in the game. (Unskilled listeners hear "random drumming" instead of "<garbled message>", since extremely short messages will be quite common and language obfuscation doesn't touch the first letter of a word. ''Basic Language'' gives a 33% chance to interpret the message, ''Advanced Language'' 66%, and ''Expert Language'' 100%.)
::#Every beat is audible to everyone in the 13 by 13 square with the drummer at its center. (13 by 13 is just large enough to cover an entire camp, and camps should be communication hubs, after all.)
::In general, this item would benefit natives about as much as GPS units benefit outsiders. The hearing radii and AP costs of messages could be changed easily if drums became too powerful, annoying, or ineffective. And yes, I've played Urban Dead. =)
::— [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 22:54, 9 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Hammer===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=New Item|
suggest_scope=Available to all characters|
suggest_description=A basic hammer. This item seems necessary for potential future building skills such as roads or huts or hut fortifications. Hammers could also be used as offensive weapons. They could also be subject to random breaking like machetes.|
suggest_time=06:18, 1 May 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Throgonuts|Throgonuts]]|
suggest_comments=

I don't think we need another weapon until there's an actual niche for it to fill. I think hut-building would be great — require that all 8 surrounding jungle squares be cleared before one can be built, make huts destructable by melee weapons or by growing jungle in the immediate area, and turn standard medical/ammunition/trading huts into indestructable stone structures — but we don't need a hammer now. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)

}}

===303===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=new item|
suggest_scope=availible to only outsiders|
suggest_description=a 303's nickname is actually: elepahant rifle,[in real life],a 303 is able to blow a elephants head of 1 shot in the neck i am suggesting this for the further success of the CP against the reefer terror cell,though it could turn against us if lord paul reefer get's his hands on it or one of his group members!.

Damage: 15, special dmg: 16.|
suggest_time=15,25, 17 June, 2006 (EST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Riddick|Riddick]]|
suggest_comments=

No. Hell, I can scarcely understand what you're trying to suggest here. I can see that it's ridiculously powerful, though.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:01, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Berries to Increase AP===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Change item's effect|
suggest_scope=Tasty berries (or similiar item)|
suggest_description=There are so many HP-healing items in the game, most of which heal only 1 or 2 HP so are not cost-effective to use (In terms of AP-spent-per-HP-healed), therefore are not used at all by wise players. To make some of these items more valuable and add an interesting dynamic to the game, I suggest that the effect of eating berries should be to increase your AP level rather than you HP level. Eat some tasty berries, they invigorate you and you gain 2 AP (you spent one AP eating them, net gain of 1 AP). All of the long-time players have been in the situation I'm sure (and most newer players too), where we are about to kill an elephant or tiger or an enemy player for that matter, but we run out of AP just as the target is at 3 HP, then we have to go off-line and cant wait about for 20 minutes to finish the target off, as we have real-life obligations (while we are gone the target invariably escapes, is killed by someone else, or kills you!). So carrying around 5 bunches of tasty berries could give you 5 free AP when you really need them. Thus berries would become a very valuable item in the game too, rather than a superfluous item|
suggest_time=00:47, 21 June 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Arminius|Arminius]]|
suggest_comments=

Comment here

I like the idea! You're probably going to end up with a net loss of APs on them anyway, but it's kinda like storing APs... This could work well. -[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 10:54, 21 June 2006
:Exactly, you would definitely have a net loss of AP finding them. There would also be net loss of AP buying them in the trading hut, and once people catch on to how valuable they are they would become tremendously expensive (demand would overwhelm supply), making for an even bigger net loss of AP buying them. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:40, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I could certainly see it getting out of hand. You'd need to cut it off at a certain point. Maybe 5 is about right.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:03, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
:Why would there need to be a cut-off? Even if someone is carrying 50 bunches of berries (which they will have spent many days worth of AP searching for on berry-bush squares), they will get their 50 extra AP and then it's all gone. With a full 75 AP and with 50 bunches of berries, a person could use 125 AP within a few minutes. If theoretically two 80-HP enemies are standing on the person's same exact square, odds are he can kill both with 5 AP to spare, but now all his berries are gone. I would agree that carrying 50 bunches of berries is pretty ridiculous, but again the person will have spent many days searching for them, a tremendous net loss of possible damage inflicted if he had just used all those hundreds of AP he spent searching, attacking. And even in that extreme example all he can do is inflict 160 damage and then his berry supply is used up, So I dont think it is necessarily "out of hand". Besides, anyone who does such a thing (spends days finding 50 berries and goes and uses them all at once) is an idiot and a very poor player, the berries would be valuable to be used when you really desperatrely need them, when you are out of AP about to get a kill or maybe in some other limited way (as MorkaisChosen said, it is a way to store AP), not in that way. If you are worried about people camping berry bushes to get lots of AP-boosting berries, see below (and remember that some people do the same for first aid kits anyway). [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:40, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
::The above remarks would be accurate if the AP-booster item was "invigorating herbs" found with an 8% rate in the Grasslands or something. However, berries have a 55% find rate (perhaps higher for villager), so 50 berries take at most two days to collect. Unless your character is a PKer who can attack anything that moves, the berry-buff would become very valuable for increasing combat efficiency. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 17:37, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
:::Since this would be a radical change for berries, yes the find rates should be changed. The AP-giving item doesnt even have to be berries, my original sugegstion was "berries or similiar item". I think it should be berries because there are berry bushes all over the island, rather than gerasslands which are only in one part of the island(?). [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 23:55, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

A comment I have is that this would make berry bushes genuinely valuable, but it is probably not desirable to have everyone camp the berry bushes, that's boring. Fortunately this problem is already solved by something Simon implemented very early on--berry bushes dry up and new ones are discovered all the time (it might be advisable to increase the rate at which they dry up and new ones pop up for this). [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:40, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
:Not sure where you got this idea from, bushes are static.. for now! --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 01:00, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
::I could've sworn I've seen writings in the jungle making references to trees which are not there anymore, e.g. "this mango tree is claimed by John Doe", but there is no tree in the square. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 23:55, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, as pointed out, it would take two days of camping a berry bush to get 70 berries, the maxiumum that can be stored (unless the idiot's walking around with no weapons). However, you'd only get one day of extra combat from it. You're actually losing time that way. If you're really worried, make bushes drop two types of berries, HP restorers and AP restorers. Lower the find rates for both to match the current find rate. I assume this wouldn't be hard. Huts already drop multiple varieties of items. I'd also like to point out that this system is already in place in KoL. They just set a maximum you can eat before you get full to keep the system from being abused. Would that be hard to code? --[[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]] 14:18, 13 July 2006
 
it's not worth it,eating a berry costs one action point(s),and every berry gives you 1 AP so really you would just be left on the same AP you were on before you ate the berry! [[User:Eminem1|Eminem1]] 01:03, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
:It would give 2 AP, you would spend 1 AP to eat it, so you would gain 1 AP. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 23:55, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Personally i like the idea getting free XP item so how about this; have one and only one item (say buncha berries) gives 1XP costs 1AP, but you can eat it whenever you want. this would pretty much reduce the number of people who are going to farm (as the chance of getting that one item consistently is comparatively low), it would make a welcome change to searches.--[[User:A for anarchy|A for anarchy]] 05:14, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
:I think you are confused here, the topic at hand is not gaining free XP, but "storing AP" as MorkaisChosen put it. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 23:55, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Camera/Spirit box===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Ranged weapon|
suggest_scope=Those plagued by banshees and those interested in scaring natives|
suggest_description=In just about every meeting of natives and cameras it is believed that the cameras are able to steal some of their spirit. On Shartak this is for sure and it also works on the dead. The camera is able to capture some of a person's spirit causing 3 points of damage. If the shot kills them they are trapped in the camera until they revive for X extra AP. If the user has Sixth Sense they may capture a spirit in the same way. The camera uses rolls of film with 5 shots each. Scientists have special photography skills increasing their chance of capture. Natives must have Outsider knowledge to use the camera. Otherwise it will appear as Spirit box in their inventory. (Possible native equivelent could be something like a voodoo doll)|
suggest_time=04:11, 23 July 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]]|
suggest_comments=

I like this! It rally does fit in for me... Plus it allows my clan to do some REAL research on Spirits by taking pictures. And, of course... Who you gonna call? [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 10:58, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't want to seem impolite, and I don't want to discourage people from making creative suggestions, which this certainly is. However, I'm not so sure about this. After all, cameras don't REALLY hurt people. Also, cameras, to me, don't fit with the time period in Shartak, like GPS units. There are already suggestions to change the GPS unit to something else. I don't think adding another piece of relatively advanced technology will help. Cameras have been around maybe 100 years? Shartak seems to take place in the 1700's or so, a little too early. Long story short, I don't think it fits. That's just my opinion, however. [[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]]
:Just to remind you that this is a fictional game not set anywhere or anytime in paticular and what may not fit in reality may fit great in a game(Shartak ghosts? Urban Dead zombies?). In fact sometimes doing the impossible is what makes these games fun. (The Royal Expedition claims that it is 1906) --[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 21:16, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

i agree with idea that we should do something about ghosts, but the idea of trapping "ghosts" in cameras not so much, cause ghosts are players too and costing them extra AP for escape compounded with the AP cost of reviving, would seriously affect their gameplay.--[[User:A for anarchy|A for anarchy]] 03:40, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I really like this idea, although it shouldn't be used for hurting live players, instead capturing spirits who are farming xp in a resource hut. Then, rather than spending AP to escape, they should only have the option to revive (Perhaps at an increased cost)--[[User:Zydd Soral|Zydd Soral]] 16:55, 25 July, 2006

Compared to exorcism, capturing spirits in a camera seems really silly and would make the game seem the same way. Maybe it'd be like introducing soap as an item that could deal damage to pirates: funny, but absurd and out of place in a role-playing game. Some elements of fantasy are acceptable in such games, but others, like this one, are too hard to swallow. But it's a clever idea. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 17:27, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
:Exorcism sounds like a really silly thing to me (holding up a symbol and saying some silly words is going to repel a ghost?). Plus it is very cliche and I don't think a scientist would be the kind of person who would do it. We don't have an outsider religious class in this game dispite the suggestions for it. The true equivelent of your antipirate soap would be a vacuum cleaner like in ghost busters.--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 21:16, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
::I have to disagree with you, Darkferret. If you're going to accept spirits, then you might as well accept exorcism. After all, practically every culture I've heard of that believes in spirits also believes in having some way to banish them. Additionally, there IS a religious class on the native side: the shaman. I agree the scientist is ill-suited for exorcism, but something can undoubtedly be worked out.[[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]] 19:38, 28 July 2006
:::Repeling a player counts as movement that does not use their AP which defies the Free Lunch Principle. Capture and captive player escape via revival is Free Lunch complient. Besides the outsiders already have too many classes and scientists need unique science related skills.--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 21:25, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

A Spirit Box could work as a kind of special wooden box with charms or religious symbols on it, but maybe not as a camera. [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 10:38, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:What would the roll of film equivalent be?--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 21:16, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

}}
===Subitems===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Divisable items|
suggest_scope=FAKs and Healing herbs|
suggest_description=When someone uses a FAK they usually don't use all of it. They may need a bandage but not the antitoxin. Instead of dumping it we could keep the unused parts much like we keep our containers. I suggest we divide the kit into 3-4 parts that separate when a kit is not completely used: Bandage for HP (possibly small[2-4HP] & large[3-6HP]), Antitoxin for Poisonous snake bites and Poison darts (possibly HP from Bunch of poisonous berries and Salt water if balanceable), and Stitching kit for Shark bite. I am not sure about the names of Healing herbs' subitems.|
suggest_time=22:28, 12 August 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]]|
suggest_comments=

Comment here

}}

Suggestions:Game mechanics

2006-08-26T23:38:18Z

Arminius: /* Unique skills */

{{Suggestions header|page_type=Game mechanics}}

== Game Mechanics ==

=== Conversion ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=|
suggest_scope=|
suggest_description=When an Outsider/Native dies they are reborn as a Native (don't really understand the spirit thing too well). The Outsiders then get a new class/skill, "Religious Conversion" that requires a "Holy Scripture". This allows a "Priest" to convert one native into a Outsider". The converted native would most likely start off as a Settler.|
suggest_time=23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

*I believe that Natives are reborn as Natives and Outsiders are reborn as Outsiders, but I could be wrong. From a game balance perspective, I am not in favor of type-swapping skills unless Natives are presented with an ability to counter or convert Outsiders as well. It does fit nicely with the theme though. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:41, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

*That would probably be the shamans job, however it may have worked for Urban Dead but I don't think it will work in this game as whichever group has the most players to begin with will, once conflicts begin to arise, dominate by switching people from the side they are on the side the priest/"whatever the natives use" side making you able to graph one groups population by looking at the graph pop=(1/2)^x. Also since there wouldn't seem to be a way, short of finding a converter player to switch you back, to go back to playing as you once did would make the amount of people on one side quickly die off (even though thats what would happen in real life, favouring the outsiders) it would be a very unfun aspect of the game. And really these are HOSTILE natives, or so it seems, why would they let some devilman outsider tell it how it is? They wouldn't, they would simply spear them and laugh! In short all the converting ideas suck, I know I wouldn't want to log on to find I'm playing for the wrong side. -- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 10:55, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

*So that means if my soldier dies, he's reborn as a native? Not only that, but to become an outsider again, first I would have to find a priest (which would be next to impossible with such a small number of players), and then he could convert me into a settler. That means I'll never be able to be a soldier again, which is a real punch in the throat for RPers. -- Grigoriy

*All valid points. I guess this wouldn't really work we have the same number of players as Urban Dead. But this would be a great way to balance out the sides later on. Say there are too many natives, you just drop more "conversion items" and balance out the sides. Too many Outsiders? Just drop the number of conversion items. Doubt it would catch on though. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 02:44, 19 February 2006 (GMT)

*Conversion doesn't have to be forced. It could require action on both sides, like a native doning a religious item and an outsider using the skill on that native. After all, conversion isn't real without true faith. The native counter to this could be similar, requiring an outsider to die holding a packet of that headshrinking powder while a shaman uses the Zombification (ala Haitian witchcraft) skill. -- frisco

*You don't change class or anything when you die. --[[User:Murk|Murk]] 12:31, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

*I gave a response to this idea under "Holy Scriptures," I think, offering another idea for it that may piss a lot less people off. *points over there*--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:15, 29 March 2006 (BST)

}}

===Monsoon===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=event|
suggest_scope=all|
suggest_description=Add seasons to shartak, matching RL events. The sea level would rise by 1 square, the river would swell by 1 square, crocodiles would become plentiful, and the pirate ship would lift off of the rocks. The ship would then randomly drift around, 1 square per day, and would still be accessible but players would have to swim out to it. Deforested squares would also recover faster. The ship wouldn't be directable because 'The sail is too tattered to use.' or something. The monsoon would also match, more or less, RL duration.|
suggest_time=17:28, 16 July 2006 (EST)|
suggest_author=Aco|
suggest_comments=

*All this would be do-able without too much extra coding except for moving the pirate ship. It would however take a while to work out which bits of beach, swamp and jungle would become submerged and to do it in such a way that it's easily reversible later. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 22:39, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

}}

=== Capturing villages ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=|
suggest_scope=|
suggest_description=Since this is like some war between Outsiders and Natives I thought this appropriate. If all the (say) Outsiders are killed in York and there are none left, then it becomes a Native village and vice versa. Probably needs harder requirements to capture settlements though. Maybe each side could have one permanent place that can never change hands?|
suggest_time=03:41, 1 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

*Not sure about this - what about all the idle players within the village? They might "wake up" after a couple of weeks to find they're in enemy territory. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:00, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

*You could have it so idle players goto the nearest friendly village-- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 02:58, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

*Turf control in a limited AP browser game like this just invites lame zerging behavior. I don't like it. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:00, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

*Not villages, perhaps 3x3 square 'forts'? --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 01:10, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

*I do like the idea, but I think Jackel's observation hits a key point. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

*Agreed with Jackel and Lint and Simon. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 13:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT) Additionally:
** Please don't impose your assumption that Shartak is at heart a "war between Outsiders and Natives" on the rest of us. That is not the only possible direction in which this game can go. For example, an Outsider village might turn out to be populated by a trading company that views the other Outsider villages as competitors whose extermination would be good for business, but it could just as easily develop into a peaceful scientific outpost, a pirate haven of drunken debauchery, or a missionary settlement devoted to finding the Natives and learning their language (gotta spread that old time religion). I believe it would be better to keep the objectives more freeform, and let the players create the course of history. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 13:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
** On a hopefully more helpful and positive note, one could simulate/approximate capturing a village by amassing an army of suitable size, carving messages of ownership all over the territory of the village in question, killing all members of the village, and repeatedly killing the village shaman so they can't get back as easily. (Ouch. I hope no armchair megalomaniacs out there have been taking notes.) --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 13:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT)


}}

=== Unique skills ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill, balance change, improvement, etc|
suggest_scope=Who or what it applies to|
suggest_description=I think that each class should start off with one unique skill that the others may never aquire. That way it stops all the classes from becoming too generic. For example Settlers could have a "farming" skill, Soldiers could have a "bravery" skill, etc. Or mabey they could just have a attribute like Soldiers have an extra 10% chance of striking the target, Warriors have an extra 10% chance of finding animals, Settlers have an extra 10% chance of finding an item, Scouts have a 3% chance of recovering 1 HP per AP spent, etc.|
suggest_time=02:34, 5 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

*I am in favor of this (if it is not in effect currently). We'd have to work out the details to make sure each class is getting their fair share, but something that encourages players to try other classes or team up with other players using different classes for a better playing experience sounds good to me. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

*I am in favor of each class being able to acquire (but not necessarily starting off with) a unique skill or attribute that the others may never acquire. Sounds to me like the kind of thing that would be unlocked as one's reward for a rite of passage, rather than granted as a right of birth. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 12:53, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

*Perhaps a Research skill of some kind for the Scientist, maybe allowing them an advantage when doing things with dead animals (would need something to do with dead animals, obviously!).[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 16:09, 16 March 2006 (GMT)

*Pirates should have a skill to steal their fallen enemies' gold coins. Arr. Would probably result in a lot of outsider in-fighting, though, and outsiders are currently outnumbered.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:18, 29 March 2006 (BST)

*I agree with this as well. It seems Shartak is on the way to giving each class their own benefits (Soldiers/Warriors with gun skills, Settlers/Villagers with animal affinity etc.), but so far only a few have been made unique. At present there is really no point to being a scientist. He starts with 10 gold coins... what the? So I'm pushing for each class to have at least one unique skill they can purchase with XP. --[[User:Rip Purr|Rip Purr]] 11:50, 3 June 2006 (BST)

*I feel the introduction of the unique skill system would make the game much more interesting. but i disagree with the idea that people should just start off with one, rather i feel it should be purchased like the other skills on offer. Additionally rather they have one skill strand/branch like that of the gun skill or animal affinity, it would be interesting and more fun to have a multiple skill branches in line with the specific character classes, like for instance giving the soldiers/warrior classes defensive skill strands in additional to their offensive ones. Furthermore there should be distinctions between the native & outsider classes so they’re similar yet different. Like for instance the firearm/blowpipe skill upgrades are currently identical, I hope in future they could be retooled to promote native/outsider gameplay differences. --[[User:A for anarchy|A for anarchy]] 03:47, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
:*A for Anarchy is right about warrior/soldiers skill trees. One idea to lively things up is for Native warriors to get a skill allowing them to manufacture a poison dart if they have a bunch of poisonous berries. This will allow them to not have to go back to their home villages to restock on ammo, they could 'live off the land' by simply searching the local poisonous berry bushes and making poison darts themselves. Soldiers should get something else, in line with the theme of the game. (Of course if it was up to me, the whole ranged weapon system would be overhauled. Another problem with ranged weapons is that they are useless to non-soldierwarriors) [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 23:38, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

}}

=== Pet System ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics|
suggest_scope=All classes|
suggest_description=I will combine aspects of the '''Animal''' and '''Pirate''' suggestions and propose a pet system that allows you to tame one of the animals on the island. First, you have to weaken the animal. Then you throw a sphere device at it and shout "SHARTAK SPHERE! GO!" for 1 AP. There's a slight chance that you have captured and tamed the animal. The more powerful the animal, the less success chance. You earn no XP for taming an animal. Players can only have 1 pet at a time. They can release a pet whenever they want. If the owner dies, the pet runs away. Pets have fixed HP, attack, and accuracy based on the type of animal they are (ie. they do not level up or heal, just to keep it simple to design). They follow the player around and only attack when the player attacks. It would be nice if they attacked while you were not playing, but auto-defense mechanisms are unnecessary. Enemy animals randomly determine whether they are attacking the owner or the pet. Other players will have an option for targeting the owner or pet. There is no XP gained for attacking or killing a pet to deter any attempts at farming pet killing (I can't believe we even have to consider preventing such a thing). For added flavor, owners can name their pets.|
suggest_time=08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*ROTFL. Sounds a bit like Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh (don't worry, I'm not a fan, I have kids that were!). Perhaps instead of spheres, you could keep the monkeys on a leash, heal a tiger or elephant to make it less likely to attack you, tame deer by feeding them, etc. Some animals like the wild boar would have to be pretty difficult to tame. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:14, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
*I was with you right up until you got to the "sphere device" bit, and I rejoined you afterwards. ;) The rest of your suggestion otherwise seems to be pretty well thought out. Personally, I'd prefer to attempt to tame the animal into becoming a pet purely by offering it food, rather than "weakening" it by other means. Especially since food is scarce enough that offering it to an animal would be a real sacrifice and therefore an interesting decision for the player to make. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:49, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
*I will confess that I had a lot of fun with the references. The problem I have with using an existing item to tame a pet is how to implement it. The player can't click on the fruit, because that will just heal themselves. And I think it is unecessary to redesign fruits like First Aid Kits and Medical Herbs, just so they can feed it to an animal. And a database check to see if the player possesses a fruit before providing a "tame" command seems awkward. Perhaps there is just one item called "animal bait" (from the Trade Hut most likely). It works much like a FAK or Herb, but can only be applied to animals (though there will be a "Yourself" option by default for those players that decide they enjoy the taste). Animals will then have a value called "tame count" in the database. For each successful feeding, this number is incremented. When a specific number is reached, the monster is successfully tamed. If a monster is killed, the number is reset to 0. Acquiring a pet should not reduce the population of animals on the island (ie. one should respawn to take its place). Furthermore, those with '''Animal Affinity''' should have a better taming success rate. (This is another attempt to give Villagers and Settlers a little boost.) --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 17:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
*This idea, while somewhat interesting, is not very realitic. The animals of the island are wild. In reality, tigers, elephants, deer, "WILD boars" etc can only be made LESS WILD by extensive and careful training and handling when they are young, not be tamable by any means, certainly not enough to follow a person around and fight on their behalf. Maybe it would be possible with parrots and monkeys, but if Simon is going to implement changes, I'd rather see some of the more believable ones first. I do agree with Lint that it would give more value to '''Animal Affinity'''. Animal attacks, even from a tiger or elephant (which would realistically be very dangerous) are hardly to be feared, making this skill currently seem pretty useless.

* ''The following is a Pet suggestion made by [[User:Richard Rose|Richard Rose]] on 21:47, 24 March 2006:''

as the name reades, simply have "pets" as a survivor living in the jungle, my first instinct would be to find support, in this case we could add a "tame animal" button, which would be clicked to tame an animal, the starting catching % would be something like 10% and could be improved the more the animal is damaged, like at 1hp, if full health was 10hp then you'd have 55% of catching it, (i added 5% for every 10% missing from the creature's health)
this could also be improved with new skills such as

*Amateur Catching Skills (adds 10%)
**Catching Skills (adds 15%, doesnt stack)
***Taming Skills (adds 30%)
*Net (adds 10%, does stack)

certain animals could be ridden, other would do funny things or find objects for you, ex:
Mr. Bobo the monkey finds a bottle of rum in your pocket "gee i didnt know i had that"

elephants, large stags, and tigers could be ridden, small stags would haveto grow up before being ridden, after like, 10 days, or 20 kills they would mature, its all just theory...

parrots could become like flares, ex: Mr. TweetTweet flies towards you and drops a message "help, im at X, Y and there's a native village!"

the parrot could also say messages randomly, players (upon catching a parrot) would be given 10 slots and would type things into them, the parrots would randomly say one, ex:
you attack elephant, Mr. TweetTweet says "polly want a cracker"

animals could also act like extra space, like a backpack, if you will.
animals are named upon capture.

}}

=== Profile Effect Items ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics|
suggest_scope=Inventory and profiles|
suggest_description=These are useless baubles that take up 1 unit of a player's inventory space, but if anyone views their profile they will see that the players possesses the item. Using the item won't accomplish anything and merely produce flavor text. However, if a player is in the presence of another player, using the item would show it off. As with all items, there's no way to trade them with other players. We can have eyepatches and peglegs. We can have tribal masks and warpaint. Maybe some clans would require a certain dress code. Maybe they need 30 pieces of flair. I think it provides an outlet for the less serious gamers. Problems: Serious gamers might be plagued with finding such items and dropping them, wasting (in their opinion) AP and Page Hits. Also, arguing over what items fit with the theme of Shartak will be a headache-inducing process.|
suggest_time=08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*I like this suggestion. How about finding the pieces of the masks and making your own - combine the baubles with mini-quests? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:18, 8 March 2006 (GMT)
*For example, to make the sacred warrior mask of Raktam, you must find 5 parrot feathers, a tiger tooth, some berries and a piece of driftwood that can be carved into the appropriate shape with a knife or dagger. Once you have all those items, you get a "create mask" option which then removes the required items and the mask appears in your inventory (and profile).
**Having the database check to see if they have all the ingredients seems a bit unwieldly. After every action or inventory use it might have to run the check to verify that they are alive, still have the items, etc. I'd just settle for having them take the items to a specific NPC. But yes, a mixing quest would be fun. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 18:02, 8 March 2006 (GMT)
***No, you could easily set it up so that no demands were placed on the server. For example, a recipe that required 5 parrot feathers, berries, driftwood, knife/dagger, and a tiger tooth might only activate upon clicking a tiger tooth amulet: "You try to assemble your Tiger Fetish, but you are missing 3 parrot feathers." In my opinion, there should be hidden flags for characters as well, "visited cave-in", "visited oasis", and so on, so that players would have to discover the Tiger Fetish recipe / assembly process first: by visiting some secret tunnel network, "Engraved on the stone walls is an elaborate recipe for assembling a Tiger Fetish, requiring ..." (if you are fluent at reading Native). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 13:59, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

* I just hope that this idea motivates players to try new things ("I'm going to join a clan that wears such-and-such a mask and attack the others! Yarr!") and not feel that the game is just about collecting items ("Well, I got all the masks. I guess I'm done with the game."). --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 18:02, 8 March 2006 (GMT)

*Maybe the different masks have different effects, from some simple ones (attracting/scaring animals, making them less likely to attack or easier to hit) to the downright blatavt video game reference that turns you into a huge brown rocky guy who can punch boulders apart. OK, maybe not the second one. [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 20:53, 9 March 2006 (GMT)
*I think that's something to be worked on in a separate suggestion. The point of this suggestion is to make useless "fancy hats" that neither add or take away from the established gameplay. However, in the eyes of certain players, they may be invaluable because of how they can incorperate such items into their goals and roleplaying. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:52, 9 March 2006 (GMT)
**Bumping this good suggestion. Let's have some cowrie shells! (And The_Conch(tm), see next suggestion.) The barren ruins and huts seem so sad and pathetic right now, they need some wacky useless trinkets to tide us over... Maybe we need shovels to dig for treasure, too. Yarr! --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:06, 10 May 2006 (BST)

}}

=== Conch Shell Hunt ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, minigame|
suggest_scope=Event|
suggest_description=''Capture the Flag''-ish minigame. Somewhere on the island is a single conch shell item. It can be found by searching anywhere. It takes 1 inventory space and appears when anyone views their profile. When the conch holder is in the presence of other players, flavor text is added to the area description to inform the others that the conch holder is in the area. If the person in possession of the conch drops it, dies, or is idle for more than 5 days, the conch returns to the system. The person who holds the conch the longest gets recognized in the statistics. Killing the conch holder earns special bonus XP. Adept conch holder killers may also be recognized in the statistics. Problems: Someone with multiple characters could take advantage of having the conch on one character and reap the XP and fame with another. There will be a point where a race condition will occur and might result in multiple conches and a broken game.|
suggest_time=08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

* This kind of thing has been on my ideas list, although this is much more detailed version than the one-liner I had. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:05, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
*''I'' have the conch! I'm allowed to speak! *ahem* I mean, um... >.>--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:21, 29 March 2006 (BST)
** Suggestions: (1) Skip bonus for the conch-killer and you remove incentive to zerg. (2) Have the conch break when the conch-bearer dies (respawns on a random beach) and you remove the race condition. (3) Give the conch-bearer an action to blow into the Conch. (You hear the booming echo of a conch being sounded to the south-east.) Maybe 50% chance of 1xp each time you blow the conch, just to give you incentive to attract attention to yourself. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 02:31, 23 April 2006 (BST)


}}

=== Know your foes ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=|
suggest_scope=|
suggest_description=As a native, I get killed a lot by outsiders, but I just can't strike back when I come back to life, as nothing allows me to identify my agressors amongst the outsiders I meet. I expected some basic language skill to give me access to clickable outsiders profiles, but it doesn't. So. I don't like much the fact that, in this game, the only alternative you have is "attack random outsiders" or "attack none". I'd like to be able to protect myself without being too unfair to peaceful outsiders (and being part of some snowball effect).

This would be partly solved by some profile access (allowing to check people's amount of human kills), or some limited displayed info on the present players (it would make -almost- sense for natives to automatically carry visible scalps or shrunken head of their victims, but I'm not sure how to justify the kills display in the case of outsiders, despite of the fact white men were actually quite fond of indian scalps at some time). Another useful tool would be some urban-dead-like contact list.

Of course, ideally (but absurdly) the most useful stat to be able to see would be the number of kills of people without human kills at the moment of their death, but...|
suggest_time=15:08, March 16, 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=Leaf|
suggest_comments=

*Perhaps seeing the profile of someone on the opposite side if you or they have the advanced language skill would be good, it would be cool to hang around with some natives without worrying about aggressors. --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 21:30, 18 March 2006 (GMT)

*If you had a contact list and some way to target individuals on your list ala Urban Dead, I'm guessing that would probably help. Not so sure about the scalp display approach. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 23:36, 18 March 2006 (GMT)

*A contact list would be quite useful in Shartak. But also being able to read profiles, maybe through an "observe" button and scroll-down menu. For the moment, people just hit each other once, hoping to miss, in order to get a link to the other guy's profile. There must be a more rationnal way to quench this curiosity. -- Gone 13:36, 10 May 2006 (GMT+1)

* Basic contact list functionality added. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
** Can now edit the comments and change the type of the contact from friend to enemy or neutral. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:17, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

}}

=== Forest Fire ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, natural disasters|
suggest_scope=Terrain|
suggest_description=This is a potential temporary minigame that will either lead to players to band together and save the island or perhaps just lead to all-out chaos. A fire script is created which designates one block as fire (it is identified by a little fire.gif in the background). Every 20 minutes the fire script will check if there is <del>Grassland or</del> Jungle nearby with density from 1-10. If there is, it spreads to the next block. It will not spread to any other terrain (including villages and ruins). Thus, the best way to prevent the spread of the fire is by chopping vegetation down to 0. The initial fires will be placed randomly around the island. Actions performed in a fire occupied space deal 2 damage. For this event to be more devious, there should be a means to quickly restore vegetation (dropping driftwood, planting fruit, watering with gourds).|
suggest_time=03:58, 17 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*I like some things about this suggestion, I think it could work really nicely if there was also a rain algorithingamajig, so that maybe, if some part of the island dried out, wildfires could break out, or if it rained too much villages could flood and get swamped. Its a neat idea. -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 04:55, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
* I like the idea of rain and fire, however there's no telling if the server would handle the database access/calculations required when the number of players gets into the range that Urban Dead has. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:17, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
** I thought it might be a bit much. Ah well. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 19:32, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
** Not the idea of fire itself, that may well be quite feasible. I meant having rain causing flooding, or not enough rain leading to fires might be a bit awkward.. unless I can think of some way to reduce the work that needs to be done regularly. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 23:38, 18 March 2006 (GMT)
* Maybe fires could also destroy huts, and then there could be a skill to rebuild them. Maybe even give people the ability to start their own fires. It might make for interesting tribal wars. -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 18:22, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
** Imagine what would happen if an ammo hut caught on fire!--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 04:32, 1 April 2006 (BST)
** I kind of wanted to restrict fires to the Jungle (removed my Grasslands comment from the original suggestion) since a lot of Huts provide resources for starting players and players that have just been revived. I think it would be unfair to prevent them with the opportunity to gather supplies. As a tactic, it may also be unfair. Native villages appear to be completely surrounded by burnable Jungle, while Outsider villages are bordered by the Beach. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 19:46, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
** Good point. The pirates would be completely free of burning too. I still think a way to temporarily damage structures could be fun -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 19:59, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
** As a general rule, real world jungles don't burn terribly well, although there are a few notable exceptions (such as the Indonesian forest fires in 1997-98). Grasslands, however, burn quite regularly, and in fact such fires are necessary for the good health of the grass. Fire kills off sapling trees in the area which would otherwise grow to the point that they overshadowed and killed the grass. I don't know whether the game has any grasslands large enough to make this kind of thing interesting, though. --[[User:Jackdaw|Jackdaw]] 15:55, 25 March 2006 (GMT)

}}

=== The Ghost Elephant ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, miniboss|
suggest_scope=Event|
suggest_description=Somewhere on the island is an animal that exists purely as a temporary event. The Legendary Ghost Elephant - in reality, an aggressive albino pachyderm of incredible size - is said to roam the island of Shartak. Some Natives revere it, others desire to be recorded as the one who slayed it. Some Outsiders wish to study it, others desire to have it as a trophy. It behaves much like any other elephant on Shartak. However, it has a different label, an unfathomable amount of HP, and deals horrific damage. If you heal the Ghost Elephant with a FAK or Herbs, you receive double XP. And to further serve a challenge, don't place an HP cap on the Ghost Elephant, just give it a starting amount. If possible, a log of all actions performed on the Ghost Elephant should be kept by the server and revealed in the event that it dies.|
suggest_time=03:58, 17 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*Ha! I like this one, Lint, and simple to implement. It should really have a boatload of HP, as I think few will consider expending valuable healing items on it, when its far easier (and more rewarding) to hack away at it for 40 AP then make a run for it! --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 16:42, 17 March 2006 (GMT)

*Arr! I would ride that ghost beast like a horse jus' fer fun, then slay 't t' sell its tusks t' them outsiders an' th' meat t' them natives. --[[User:El Pirata Cofresi|El Pirata Cofresi]] 17:46, 17 March 2006 (GMT)

*In the Congo they refer to it as Mokele Mbembe - he who stops the flow of rivers - and it is rumoured to be a lost dinosaur. The island could do with some cryptozoology. Would this creature be able to disappear or hide or move incredibly fast? If not, then once one person finds it, they can just call everyone over to the same square. This kind of defeats the mythical aspect as well as adding potential server problems. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 18:24, 17 March 2006 (GMT)

*I should make the animals attack back in near-realtime first (as in you attack them and they may or may not get an attack in).. just to add a bit of interest to it and stop people running up to the creature and hacking and then running away. Making an animal with an almost unlimited number of HP would be possible.. I guess probably start it with at least double a normal elephant and max of about a thousand HP to prevent people healing it to the point where it'd be impossible to kill. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 18:37, 17 March 2006 (GMT)

*It could be cool, especially if it moved around in a way that made tracking it possible, maybe by destroying the foliage, or moving in a pattern. Also having it move might help keep people from all winding up in one square beating it up. -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 18:41, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
**I've tried to offset the game's focus on combat by encouraging healing (double XP may be too much of a reward, so I'm willing to remove that), but that alone will most likely be not enough to counter the horde of blood-thirsty savages! Healing with the Herbs and FAKs may actually be seen as healing the Ghost Elephant spiritually rather than merely physically, which is why it's health can grow high. I don't see a problem if it became near-unkillable. I like keeping some myths and legends around. I thought that it would be best if it traveled like an elephant, but it is true that it limits the people that are able to participate in the event. Perhaps it should "teleport", after a certain amount of time in an area - "A wall of fog sweeps in through jungle. When it fades, you see that the Ghost Elephant has vanished as well." I requested for a log of actions to determine who killed it, who attacked it the most, who healed it the most, and who got hurt the most. Also, rather than a recurring animal, I thought it would be best to release it as an event that occurs every now and then. Or maybe only once! --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 19:32, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
***Hmm, when the elephant reappears, it should give a loud trumpet which can be heard over a certain radius to increase the chance of players coming across it. Unless of course players would prefer that it were more stealthy. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:25, 4 April 2006 (BST)

*I like it. And of course, you needn't stick to land animals; a mysterious sea creature that patrols the island waters and is reported to be 30ft long could prompt more people to vernture into the waters for a glimpse/trophy etc. Sharks will also be a problem for those searching! --[[User:Malphas|Malphas]] 15:52, 19 March 2006 (GMT)

*I ''love'' this idea.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:08, 28 March 2006 (BST)

*Great idea!--[[User:Paradox244|Paradox244]] 21:04, 24 May 2006 (BST)

*Ah, yes! I was wanting to suggest 'rare' animals as a possible addition, to give variety to the fauna and to provide something for my clan to pursue.--[[User:John Sevier|John Sevier]] 19:17, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

}}

=== Auto Attack ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=|
suggest_scope=|
suggest_description=I've never liked the fact that while I am away from the game, things can happen to my character, like being chewed on by a tiger or slashed with a machette. How about a setting where you can turn your character on to auto attack anything that hits you. It should, of course, be user selected. This would change the game mechanics a bit, as you could no longer move in on a target and attack it withough fear of a counter-strike. To me this is far more realistic, in that even if you are sleeping, when somebody hits you, you're going to wake up and do something about it with whatever engery you have left.

An alternative selectable action might be an auto-run. You can pre-specify the direction you want to run and how many squares upon being hit. A character with trekking could stay alive just by running a few square whenever they are hit.|
suggest_time=02:34, 20 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Qberry|Qberry]]|
suggest_comments=

* The main problem with this is that players will be discouraged from attacking other players, as this will become extremely dangerous, and the native warrior who wants the outsiderts out will effectively be penalised.[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 15:47, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
* Sorry, but I don't like this. I feel that that this will lead to interactions with players that are no different than interacting with an NPC. Could someone theoretically max themselves out by just leaving this option on and checking in every now and then to make sure they haven't become a spirit? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 17:28, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
* Yeah, I'm not a fan of being able to do something by not doing something, such as fighting or running without being there to fight or run. Also, would it be free of AP and IP hits, or would it be possible to come back and have no AP or hits left? It seems like these problems would wreck any sort of auto action. I can understand not enjoying being macheted while away, but I don't see any way around this. -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 18:20, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
* I must admit that I don't like the idea all that much, but if it was implemented it would probably be something that was user configurable. I don't think running away would make sense, but fighting back does. For example, no more than X AP to be used fighting back until you next log back in, and they wouldn't be used unless you had more than Y AP left. This way you could set X to 10 and Y to 6 and if you ran out of AP, set those values, it would be 2 hours (6 x 20m) before you were likely to attack, and it would use no more than 10 AP fighting back. Because the values are configurable, it would be hard to know who would fight back and who wouldn't. Setting X to 0 would disable the feature. I think probably the attacks would gain XP if successful, same as normal, but because you wouldn't be able to set the number of AP to use to more than your max AP value, it would be impossible to level up a character by simply leaving them alone (not to mention you would disappear from the map after being idle for a bit). --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 21:01, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
* i like the idea of counterattack , but with some limits. You have only a % of counterattacking someone (25%?) , you don't consume AP , you don't get XP. But , whit wich weapon do you attack?--[[User:JonesDye|JonesDye]] 10:05, 27 March 2006 (BST)
* The impetus behind auto-attack is to lessen the chance and impact of Badness happening to your character while you're away, but auto-attack isn't the proper solution to this. Shartak's appropriate skill would be jungle hiding, though a construction skill would work too, if we want to be more like that other game. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 13:51, 4 April 2006 (BST)
* What the animals are doing now is basically what I was saying should be an option for players. In fact, now that the animals counter-attack, it's become far more safe to attack a high-level soldier than it is to attack a parrot. All the more reason to implement this feature. It will also introduce more strategy into gameplay, such as how many AP to reserve for counter attacks, etc. It could be as simple as: enable auto-attack (toggle), if enabled, select weapon (pull-down menu), select AP to stop self-defense (pull-down?). If you select 0, you'd attack until exhausted or they left. If you select some non-zero, you'd attack until you were down to that amount. I kill a lot of other players, but I still say this would be very good for game mechanics, especially considering the new animal behavior. --[[User:Qberry|Qberry]] 06:00, 1 June 2006 (GMT)
** I would only agree with that one if it was only against animals. I don't think auto-defense was a good idea ''at all'', but now that it's in, I think that ours should only work against NPCs.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 20:11, 1 June 2006 (BST)
*** Unfortunately this could only exacerbate the Banshee Wailing Spam problems. An auto-defense option is worthless against spirits, and Banshee Wails could easily be the leading cause of damage and death in Shartak (during May 2006). Implement Exorcism before worrying about AP-costs and pull-down-menus for melee parry defense systems. --20:48, 1 June 2006 (BST)
**** Exactly. Actually, I've been thinking more on this. It's really a good thing that the animals are so dangerous now. The focus should be more on the struggle between natives and outsiders. Plus, it makes Animal Affinity that much better, which gives a good reason to play a villager or a settler.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 23:48, 1 June 2006 (BST)
*I support this idea in theory, but of course it must be approached carefully. I like JonesDye's idea of not gaining XP for counter-attacks, and there are so many other factors to consider. QBerry-- you should start a thread about this in the forums to get all sides of the debate and get discussion going. This could be a great feature if implemented correctly. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:47, 4 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Flavor Text===

this section is where "users" add "flavor" to the game, im just suggesting that every few steps the computer say a message depending on location, here ill give a few examples:

*'''grasslands'''
**the grassy field sways under the wind's rush as you take a step.|
**something far off squaks and makes a strange throaty bellow.|

*'''water'''
**a wave crashes calmly in the distance|
**a spalsh can be heard from far off|

*'''jungle'''
**a parrot's call can be heard distantly|
**the bushes nearby are rustling from the small wildlife in them|

*'''village (outsider)'''
**the smell of gunpowder wafts into your lungs|
**the smoke comming from a nearby hut smells of fresh turkey|

*'''village (native)'''
**the shaman's voice can be heard traveling through the village|
**you step on the bones of what appears to be a rattlesnake|

*'''beach'''
**the hot sand burns your feet, yet feels wonderfully different|
**several sea shells catch your eye from far off|

please feel free to update these with more, as they are just a list (if simon decides to) that will be used for flavor.
i want to do this because the game gets kinda boring simply traversing through square after square

''Comments''
* One of the noticeable, distinct aspects of that other game are the different messages for each building; i really like this idea. A criticism, though - i'd refrain from mentioning living animals/people or useful items in the descriptions, they could be confusing to newbies. In other words, "a parrot's call can be heard distantly" isn't appropriate, and "the shaman's voice can be heard traveling through the village" might not be appropriate if the shaman is currently dead. The following could substitute: "You see a large ant colony busily rebuilding their hive" (an animal that has no game impact) and "The spirit of Shubar is felt all around you" (doesn't matter if Shubar is alive or dead). --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 14:05, 4 April 2006 (BST)
* I sort of feel like this is something that could easily be put together with a Greasemonkey script. It would be nice, but it isn't really necessary. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 05:35, 5 April 2006 (BST)
:* See the end of the list at [[The Shartak Wiki:Community Portal#Greasemonkey scripts]]. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 23:31, 11 June 2006 (BST)
----

===slots/ new inventory===
slots and inventory could be implemented where, a picture of a silhouette was shown, with names of equiped items in slotted areas, ex: you skin a goat, find some sharp rocks and fashion yourself some claws, you then put them on, giving you +1 damage to all melee attacks
[[Suggestions:Items#animal wearings|animal wearings]]

"Comments below"

Making Claws? and not "all melee attacks" but only punch attacks --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 06:45, 29 March 2006 (BST)

I don't see why you need item slots for this. Having a pair of claws in the inventory would just improve punch damage by 1. That said, I don't like the idea of making oneself claws. Seems a little silly, when you have actual weapons around. Seems a little silly, either way, really. Perhaps that's just my sense of aesthetics, though, and not that of the majority of the players.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 06:37, 4 April 2006 (BST)
----

===Boat Construction===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=|
suggest_scope=|
suggest_description=Boats wouldn't be able to go into The very deep water people can't go into because the tides would rip them apart but could go move in all water for only 1 AP and it also prevents sharks from biting you. Multipule people could get into a boat based on how much wood is used, like
n*.001 x 1 = People Where n = The amount of wood used.

''Edit'':

When Boats are being boarded each player may vote on who they decide should be the captain. The captian may move boat, call the boat any non vulgar name and anyone may jump off the boat at any time except the captain. Boats could only be built on a beach and automaticly once built move the person who constructed it into the nearest water square. Players may board the baot at any time by moving into the same square as it and selecting enter. When the captain moves the boat onto a land square the boat is destroyed and all people who boarded are thrown onto the beach. Players may change the captain at any time by changing there vote. Natives can not board Outsider boats and outsiders can not board native boats. What the boat looks like and is called depends on the size of it.

1 person: Raft

2 people: Large raft

3-4: Small boat

5-6: Boat

7-9: Large Boat

10-24: Huge Boat

25 and up: Gigantic Boat|
suggest_time=06:42, 29 March 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Slith|Slith]]|
suggest_comments=

*check out the skills section, i already suggested something like that.... anyway, check it out --[[User:Richard Rose|Richard Rose]]
*While the huts are handled in Richard's suggestion, I am interested in the boat aspect. I think that placing multiple players on a boat will be troublesome. Who decides where the boat goes - the server? the first player on the boat? It's also important to keep in mind that we already are offered a skill to help with moving in water - '''Swimming'''. If we are to introduce rafts, there should be some mechanics set in place to minimize their usefulness. Perhaps carrying a raft through non-water terrain doubles movement cost to discourage players from carrying one everywhere. Perhaps the raft only has a limited amount of moves in deep water before breaking up. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:44, 29 March 2006 (BST)
** Yeah I changed the suggestion based on your suggestion's :) --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 04:40, 30 March 2006 (BST)
*"Welcome to the Shartak ferry sevice. Please pay the captain your fee of 3 coins. We will be departing for the pirate ship in 3 hours. The captain has locked the destination coordinates and will not change directions unless the boat's integrity is threatend. We will arive in 50 AP + 10 AP per passenger + 5 per day due to drift. You are encouraged to help paddle the boat as this will help us arive sooner. If you decide to leave the boat at any time we will not refund you or allow you to reboard. Please do not pull out any corks or kick any boards as the boat is fragile and will sink if badly damaged."--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 05:06, 1 April 2006 (BST)
** Yeah ^^ That too --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 00:48, 3 April 2006 (BST)
* Boats sound cool. There are a lot of different ways to implement boats that aren't that complicated. Here's one example: suppose that a boat can hold 4 people. Anyone who wants to control the boat spends 4 AP to move the boat one square (larger boats move more slowly). Thus the boat could wander back and forth depending on who currently has the helm, but is unlikely to travel faster than a swimmer. Anyone (native or outsider) can dive overboard or climb onboard at any time, and the boat can be chopped up and destroyed by enough effort. ... The way I envision it, a boat never leaves the water -- the boat gets constructed on a beach square and then can only be moved onto water. It is never an inventory item. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 09:31, 2 June 2006 (BST)
**That's a good idea. I would go so far, though, as to say that it has to be constructed in shallow water.It would just make it easier. I would propose that the boat require four pieces of driftwood, plus two for every extra person. Thus a 1-man raft would be 4 pieces, a 2-man raft would be 6, a 3-man would be 8, and so on.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 18:26, 2 June 2006 (BST)
***Although there's no reason not to require, umm, a boatload of wood for construction, rather than just 2 + 2 per person. If the boat has any advantages at all over swimming, you could easily require huge quantities of wood without game imbalance. The original suggester had 1000 pieces per person, that's over the top, but why not 18 wood per person or something. That means N sailors could build an N-person boat in a single day searching at Shartak's [[Boatyard]]. Although construction might require another day of additional AP, and a hammer... --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 23:07, 2 June 2006 (BST)
****I'd be in favor of boat construction, but it should be ''significantly'' harder and MUCH more time consuming to work, really only the most hardcore players should try it. Realistically, a person should need about 20 pieces of wood to displace their own body weight, so 20 wood per person is about right. It should take at least a week of devoted searching to come up with this amount for one person, and would require a fair amount of organization to build a large craft, but come on, its a BOAT! Virtually no attacks from anyone ever! Easy access to hard-to-reach islands! It should be extremely rare and time-consuming to do this IMO.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 05:18, 3 June 2006 (BST)
* i reckon the boat idea would be great especially for the CP so we are land police of york and water police of york!,hopefully this does work out!. [[User:Riddick|riddick]] 21:17 10 June,2006 (GMT).
*If boats are implemented, wouldn't it make sense to allow pirates a special skill regarding them? After all, the pirates on Shartak were all sailors before wrecking their ship. It would only make sense if they (for instance) used fewer AP to sail or something similar. [[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]] 8:53, 11 July 2006 (GMT)
*I think that boats could add a valuable dimension to the game once more pressing issues (such as spirit exorcism/warding) are dealt with and the active population of the island grows by a few hundred (because boats would spread players out over an even larger area and make people even harder to find outside of camps). Anyway, here are my ideas.
**Regarding boat speed, realism would demand that boat travel be faster than swimming in at least some cases. At best, a boat should be able to travel from York to Derby (for example) faster than anyone could make the trip on foot (~160 AP with ''trailblazing''; see [[User:Elembis/Sandbox#Camp travel distances|my sandbox]]). Furthermore, a four-person crew should be able to outrun or at least keep up with a boat with just one person onboard. I think a boat should move for 1.5 AP regardless of how many people (up to 4) are in it. With cooperation, a full crew could make the York-Derby trip (~276 squares east to west) in 276 × 1.5 / 4 = 103.5 AP per person, or a little under a day and a half. A 1.5 AP move cost for boats would make swimming faster for a single player in shallow water but not in deep water, and a crew of two or more people would be able to outdistance any swimmer.
**The boat would have a virtual helm, and only players at the helm (captains) would be able to set the boat's course (one of the eight compass directions) and sail off-course if they desired. Non-captains would only be able to move the boat in the direction of the course or the two adjacent directions (so a NW course would only allow them to move N, NW and W). The helm could be shared, but only an empty helm could be taken (i.e., you have to kill the captain(s) first). This would keep players from climbing aboard and sailing far off-course (or perhaps to shore in hostile territory). A captain who left the boat would return as crew and would need to be promoted again by whoever had the helm.
**Boats could be entered, exited, or boarded from another boat for 1 AP. Players would leave boats (1) voluntarily, (2) by being killed, or (3) if they were not a captain and a captain forced them off for 1 AP.
**Construction would occur on the beach, as Tycho suggested. (A one-time script would flag beach squares next to water, and construction of boats would only be possible on those squares.) It would progress one piece at a time to (1) avoid unrealistic near-instant boat construction and (2) to allow multiple people to contribute driftwood to the effort. There would be a 1 AP "Build" button and a dropdown box for all boats on the square. ("[Build] <nothing / Ye Olde Boat> with a piece of driftwood.") After contributing a piece of driftwood a player would see how many more pieces the boat needed. There would also be a form for starting a new boat with one piece of driftwood. ("[Start building] a new boat named [text input].")
**Boats would be attackable with melee weapons and could disintegrate slowly (1) when they are unoccupied, (2) when they have been under construction for more than a week, and (2) as they travel. A boat would only disappear from the game if it had 0 HP and had been that way for an entire week. (A script could run every ''x'' hours to check for unoccupied boats and damage them, and a nightly script could check for destroyed and abandoned boats and delete them.) For realism and gameplay, it should be easier to kill all four passengers on a boat than to destroy the boat itself as well as more rewarding (i.e., hurting a boat would yield few XP, if any). Attacks that targeted the boat would be visible to everyone onboard just as if they themselves were being attacked. Players onboard would be attackable by anyone on the square, whether the attacker is riding in another boat or swimming. (If sailors were not attackable, natives raiding outsider camps would be able to take sanctuary in boats just offshore.) Giant squids would attack boats about as often as they attacked the people onboard (unless a passenger had attacked the squid, in which case the squid would focus on that player until they were dead). Sharks, however, would leave boats and their occupants alone.
**Most important, in my opinion, is that the best boat builders and/or repairers would be settlers, villagers and pirates. While boat construction would be too fun to not share, those three classes need unique skills. An exclusive repair skill might be appropriate; unskilled captains would push a boat until it couldn't go anywhere (or hire someone to repair it), but settlers/villagers/pirates would be able to repair boats (including any abandoned ones they found). Fully repairing a nearly destroyed boat should probably be about half as expensive, in terms of both AP and driftwood, as building a new one. Needless to say, boats could be a real chore to implement, but they would surely make the game even more distinctive and rich. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 20:48, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Poisoning===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, status effect, balance|
suggest_scope=All classes, primarily Warriors|
suggest_description=Currently, the blowpipe can only carry 1 dart, yet weighs the same amount of inventory space as a rifle with 2 bullets. If you were to pit a fully leveled Soldier armed with loaded rifles against a fully leveled Warrior armed with loaded blowpipes, the battle is in favor of the Soldier who requires less time to reload while inbattle and dealing superior damage. (rifle's 5 to blowpipe's 4).

To address this, I would propose that poison darts actually cause poisoning. Poisoning would behave much like a shark bite - causing 1 HP damage per action performed until they are administered a FAK or medical herbs. A character can die if poison is left untreated. The attacker receives no additional XP for this kill or the damage dealt from poison. Poisoning would not stack, but it would be possible for a character to suffer from both poison and shark bites. The introduction of poison may require the dart's damage to be reduced to something substantially lower. Perhaps a default of 2 HP inflicted.

Up for discussion - does poisoning have a percent chance of occurring, an AP lifespan (only lasts 10 moves), and perhaps only works on non-npc characters?|
suggest_time=18:38, 6 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*Sounds great! I've heard that some of the toxicins used to poison darts can induce illutions. It would be interesting if poisoning increases AP usage for certain actions or even better imagined enemies (that Sixth Sence could pick out).--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 08:24, 7 April 2006 (BST)
* Have you seen the size of the some of the blowpipes that certain tribes carry? They're anything from 6 to 10 foot long! It's hardly surprising that they occupy the same inventory space as a rifle :) On the other hand, poisoning from darts sounds like a good idea.. I don't know that they should poison forever though, maybe for a limited number of AP, but perhaps have the effect be cumulative up to a certain point? Get shot 5 times and you lose 1 HP for every AP used for 5 x whatever the limit is. Does that make sense? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 21:16, 7 April 2006 (BST)
***Exactly - e.g., each poison dart that hits adds 2 AP to the poison duration, and while poisoned, you lose 1HP per AP used. The Poison Dart would eventually inflict 6 hp of damage, offsetting the extra damage and double barrel of the rifle. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 07:22, 12 April 2006 (BST)
**That might work, that way the Warrior has incentive to continue using the blowpipe multiple times on a target rather than just switch to their machete after the poison takes effect. Add to the character table a boolean flag (Poison = True) and give it a Poison Timer int. When the timer reaches 0, the Poison gets flipped to False. When the character dies or a FAK or Herb is applied, the Poison gets flipped to False and the timer gets set to 0. If the flag is True and they're poisoned again, stack the timer. I'm going to put forth this suggestion to the Forum. I don't have a lot of experience with using the blowpipe (I'm a machete guy) so they should weigh in on this. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:17, 7 April 2006 (BST)
* Or how about you can find [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_dart_frog#Toxicity frogs] and use them to put differnt posion effects on your darts? --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 04:57, 11 April 2006 (BST)
:*If we're adding poison dart frogs, I demand that they be lickable. It wouldn't be right, if you couldn't lick the poison dart frogs.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 20:14, 11 April 2006 (BST)
::* Ok... then some benifical frogs too! And people can't tell the diffrence between them unless they get some skill? --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 06:27, 17 April 2006 (BST)
*Bump! Awaiting a short lifespan (eg 4hp) additional poison effect for poison darts. And/or Native-only Poisoning skill so that Snake + Dart = uberdart that causes permanent poisoning (aka shark wound). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 20:51, 1 June 2006 (BST)
* Short lifespan poison effect added a little while ago. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 22:43, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

}}

===PvP Protection===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, pvp, nopvp, vs, player versus player|
suggest_scope=All Classes|
suggest_description=A full implementation of player versus player protection. This would be a nice feature for newbies allowing them time to adjust to the game without getting slaughtered. I envisage something allowing you to enable nopvp without the ability to disable for at least 100AP. Also when you hit a player who is flagged nopvp then you would get a message along the lines of "As your blade bounces off an invisible shield you suddenly notice a shamanic medicine pouch around the neck of target, they are protected, it would be pointless to continue to attack target." where target will be replaced by the players name.|
suggest_time=10:00, 13 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Iamtas|Iamtas]]|
suggest_comments=

* This is a good, well-thought suggestion. But while I don't generally like PKing, I think it is important to keep it available to those that do enjoy it. With XP penalties and easy resurrection, PKing not ruining the game from my perspective and it shouldn't be restricted further. I would not mind a method of informing players that view my character profile to see that I am flagged for pvp or not, but I am against preventing PVP without purchasing such an ability. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 21:16, 13 April 2006 (BST)
* New players already get an AP bonus and need less XP to level; I don't see the need for a newbie specific ability. I'd rather see a safe area over a moveable system - something like a sacred hut in native villages and a guard hut in outsider villages which anyone who hasn't attacked another player in 100 AP can enter and within which all PvP activity is prohibited, wastes AP, or perhaps results in HP loss only to the attacker ("Your attack has angered the mighty (spirits or guards) in the area; they smite you").--[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 04:12, 14 April 2006 (BST)
*Having both a PvP pirate and a pacifist shaman, and having been PKed on both... I don't like this idea. I like the 100AP newbie status. I don't like the "enabling" nopvp. Sorry. Death is a part of the game. If you walk into a tribe of hostile headhunters, they aren't going to just stand by and let you through--no matter how peaceful your business.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 04:27, 14 April 2006 (BST)
*I'm aware that new players get extra AP and newbie protection isn't what this is about. It is more useful for being protected from the players that sit in their home town bashing away at their own folk. Even with that said my main reason for nopvp was for another idea I have for a skill track that at the time of thinking about it I thought would require a nopvp implementation. I may post the skill track idea sometime when I have finished thinking about all the details.--[[User:Iamtas|Iamtas]] 12:07, 14 April 2006 (BST)
*How about you can't be attacked in your village/settlement by people that come from your village/settlement? --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 06:30, 17 April 2006 (BST)
*As much as I don't care for PK-ing (especially against newbies like me!), it is something many people enjoy (and I am in full agreement with [[User:Wifey|Wifey]] about how newbies could visit enemy territory and be invincible) and is an excellent way of gaining XP if you choose to do so. I second the notion of having a PvP free hut in each settlement/village; perhaps disable the attack command entirely while in there? As a penalty for using such a hut, there should be no resource items there, so that players will still need to 'risk' being in resource huts to restock. Or, at least charge 5AP to enter (you have to talk your way in or at least convince the guards to allow you entrance; thus people who 'play it safe' will need to conserve their AP as they are not taking risks). One of the hallmarks of games like this is AP managment, and most of us learned that the hard way...--[[User:John Sevier|John Sevier]] 19:28, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

}}

===New strategic location on island===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=New location, Game mechanics, |
suggest_scope=N/A|
suggest_description=I think the addition of one or more major new "strategic" locations on the island would greatly improve the game. What exactly it would be can be worked out, all it really ''has'' to be is very valuable to occupy and far away from any village or town (i.e. far away from any shaman). Both sides would rush to occupy this location and would fight each other for control of it.

This would have 3 major benefits for the game that I can see: 1) It would get the action away from towns/villages/shamans, 2) It would make death more meaningful and make killing an enemy meaningful (all death means in towns/villages now is having to float five spaces or so to the shaman and then you get a free revive. There are no easy/free revives out in the center of the island, you would lose both location and the 50 AP to contact, unless you decide to stick around and play as a spirit), 3) It would give people a goal in the game, a major location to fight over and defend, a location that isn't pointless to fight over, as towns/villages are because they cannot be taken. All in all it would have the benefit of making the game more fun.

As far as what the new location would be exactly, one idea could be gold mine(s). They would be valuable because standing on a gold mine square would give you 1 gold coin/hr and require no AP expenditure. The specifics of this are wide open and dont even much matter, as long as the location is far from settlements and very valuable to occupy so players will flock out there and fight for control, making for an exciting time and making killing enemies non-pointless.

If implemented, it should only be one new location at first, with maybe a couple more introduced later once things get going. The location should have a name, and it should be relayed to players in the form of Game News so that everyone knows of its existance and where it is in general terms, e.g. "A gold mine was discovered just south of the mountain, Natives and Outsiders are both rushing out there for control".

''Note: One of the raisons d'etre for this suggestion has been eliminated with the shaman changes, so this suggestion is less relevant than it was and in some ways outdated. It might still be workable, though it will have to be approached differently.'' [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:27, 4 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_time=21:02, 22 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Arminius|Arminius]]|
suggest_comments=

* I realise it was just an example, but 1 gold per hour without any AP requirement is probably a bit much. Definitely something to expand on though. I like it. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 21:46, 22 April 2006 (BST)
** For example, award 1 gold coin to any one player at random who is on the mine for at least the full hour. Or only award 1 gold coin at random to any one player if only one side occupies the mine -- if both outsiders and nativers are present, they are fighting for control and no one is mining. Generally speaking, 24 gold coins per <s>hour</s>day fed into the entire game will not mess up the economy -- that's probably less than 75-150 AP of searching (and a trip to the trading hut). Alternatively, allow players to search the area with a <s>15%</s> 40% find rate for one gold coin, as long as none of the opposing faction are present in the square. Drawbacks: (1) This sort of high-impact location could also increase zerging/cheating, which wouldn't be fun for anyone. (2) A gold mine could rapidly devalue gold coins until they're effectively worthless, ending the "value" of the mine. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 02:22, 23 April 2006 (BST)
***Giving out small numbers of coins to only a certain percentage of the people on the mine square seems too low a reward, while the original 1 gold coin per hour is definitely too high. But unless people get something tangible every hour that they stand there, people may not bother to fight for control of the mine, which is the whole point. Here is an idea: Make a new item called "gold nugget". Every hour that you are standing on the gold mine square and your faction controls it, you get one gold nugget. Then create a hut 1 square adjacent to the mine and inside have an NPC called "gold prospector Jim" (for example), who will "cash in" your nuggets, 10 nuggets (or 5, or whatever is deemed the best number) for one coin. Gold nuggets on their own would have no value. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 14:57, 29 April 2006 (BST)
****You could achieve the same effect without creating a prospector hut just by giving a straight 10% (or 20%) chance of 1 gold coin each hour. (To me a single "prospector Jim" gets a bit sketchy if a thousand people are rushing the mine...). In my opinion, you get better scalability and realism if the gold-per-person decreases as people increase. If there are a thousand people on the mine, then each person gets only 5% chance per hour (=50gc/hour production). If there are 10 people on the mine, then each one gets a 100% chance per hour (=10gc/hour production). Gold can't be earned from the mine when competing factions are on the location, creating a contested site is the purpose of implementing this suggestion. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 09:41, 2 June 2006 (BST)
::::If there is a 10% chance to get one gold coin per hour, and if during a large portion of the day both natives and outsiders are on the gold mine square so no mining is going on, then the odds would be that the lots of people would get 0 gold coins (or very few) before being killed, a total waste of time for them, and they might not bother going back after they're killed, which defeats the gold mine's purpose as a strategic location that people will fight over. This is why I say people need something tangible every hour. In fact, that should be revised to "something tangible every AP turnover", i.e. every 20 minutes. Even if someone is there for only a short time, they should have something to show for it, which they almost certainly wouldnt with a low % chance per hour of getting one gold coin. Your idea of scaling the gold that the mine produces could be implemented by making Gold Prospector Jim give fewer gold coins the more nuggets he receives. In other words, a gold mining version of the current trading system. Since he will have received 0 gold nuggets as the mine is first discovered, one gold nugget could trade for one gold coin, and as more people start cashing in, the value of a gold nuggest would go down, to where he wants 20 or so nuggets for one gold coin. The value would fluctuate throughout the day and week as people cash in more gold nuggets. This way, scalability is achieved while continuing to be able to reward something tangible every AP turnover. Also, I would say gold nuggets should take 0 inventory space just like gold coins, since in theory 72 could be given out per day to one person, and that would fill up anyone's inventory, allowing them to not receive any more. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:27, 4 June 2006 (BST)

* An alternative to the gold mine would be some kind of ancient treasure hoard, so not just gold coins but also statues, ancient armour and maybe some pretty nasty weapons. However, to get the good stuff you'd have to go into the trap-filled maze and actually make it into the chamber where the treasure is. With spirit-proof doors so people don't just die, go in, find the correct route, revive and go in...[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 17:33, 24 April 2006 (BST)
**This is interesting but seems overly complicated, and seems like more of a one-shot kind of thing, but most significantly there is no real value in holding such a location. A gold mine would be a simple, straightforward, and constantly of high value to occupy. Also, once one person finds the way through the maze, soon everyone would know. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 14:57, 29 April 2006 (BST)
***Good point... Ignore my suggestion, it's not very good... [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 12:27, 2 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Life cycle===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=balance change|
suggest_scope=NPC animals|
suggest_description=Currently the main way of leveling up is by killing things (i.e. NPCs & characters) I suggest there be some sort of life cycle for animals. For example, when there are massive amounts of tigers being killed less spawn. But if everybody leaves tigers alone, more spawn. If would look something like this:
:0-5% of animal type killed, x5 spawn rate
:6-15% of animal type killed, x2 spawn rate
:16-45% of animal type killed x1 spawn rate
:46-75% of animal type killed x0.5 spawn rate
:76-99% of animal type killed x0.1 spawn rate
:100% of animal type killed, animal is extinct
 This forces people to find alternative ways to gain Xp (possibly more lucrative ones?)|
suggest_time=03:22, 29 May 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

I have the funny feeling that animals would start going extinct, which would just be a pain. I'd rather not see this one implemented.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 15:50, 29 May 2006 (BST)
: Would work if there was a total animal population that was always kept, so if tigers start to become extinct more deer appear, but this would lead to an island of only elephants. Would also work if the animals that were extinct reemerged later on, then it would just be annoying. But the goal of "find alt ways to gain Xp" won't be realised via this manner - it would instead lead to more player vs player action. Instead of taking away our current methods, perhaps other methods of xp gaining could be added, like the agriculture skill, or some current activities could have an xp bonus (we get xp for uncovering trees, why not for finding fruits? Could trading become xp-worthy?).--[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 16:47, 29 May 2006 (BST)
:: I don't know why we should force people to find the lucrative alternative ways to gain XP. Animals are extremely rare in some areas of Shartak, and PKing and PvP is common. Banshee wailing spam, punch-heal farming, and gratuitous healer orgies are annoying enough already. Basically, the non-healing/non-harming XP paths need to be more viable: XP for exploring, chopping, discovery, contacting foreign villages, and so on. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 10:01, 2 June 2006 (BST)


}}

===Message in a bottle===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=New item, message system|
suggest_scope=All characters in Beach terrain|
suggest_description=Much like the "make signpost" action, creating a message in a bottle will only be available to players standing in Beach terrain. Unless the "Refillable containers" suggestion is implemented, to create a message in a bottle will require a bottle of beer, bottle of rum, or bottle of water and some newer items - parchment and charred driftwood or berry paint. There would be a textarea and a button, much like the existing message actions. Upon clicking the "make message" button, the items required are removed from the player's inventory and their text message is added to the database.

Although it would be neat to actually see the bottles floating in the water and following unique movement patterns, that would lead to some very cluttered areas. So instead the message in a bottle becomes a rare search result in Beach terrain.

When a player finds a message in a bottle the system generates a random number and selects the associated message to that number from the database. After reading the message, the player has the option to destroy or return the bottle. Destroying the message in a bottle removes it from the database. Returning it throws the bottle back into the sea to be found again. There should probably be a default message in the event that all the unique messages are destroyed or the search odds could be modified to reflect that there are no more messages in a bottle to be found.

Each message could also have a stat to display how many times the message was read before.|
suggest_time=05:33, 6 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

Nice idea. I'd rather have the message bottle also be rare-findable in water. I think it'd be kind of neat to have some items found in water, even if only text messages generated by other players. The suggestion does await parchment, although I think that berries alone would be sufficient for ink ("you write in berry juice") rather than requiring a separate ink item. Implementing parchment might get a bit complicated - I'd prefer a very streamlined approach so that players aren't carrying around six (or 71) different message'd parchments at once. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 21:23, 16 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Map quest===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Quest|
suggest_scope=All characters, new NPCs|
suggest_description=There is a limited usefulness for the map for those without access to the mapping scripts. There is also a limited incentive for players to explore foreign camps. This suggestion provides a simple quest for players to hopefully address both issues.

Each town will possess a new NPC (or possibly a retooled home shaman or trader) that has a fragment of a map. The fragment will display the general vicinity around the camp. After a player interacts with the NPC and acquires a map fragment, they can view map.html and see two new buttons: "view torn map" and "compare maps". "View torn map" will display the collection of map fragments acquired by the player. "Compare maps" will overlay the player's personal map on top of the torn map.

I imagine the map fragments to resemble the parchment look featured in the game logo, but each camp might use a different medium or writing implement which will give the torn map a patchwork appearance.

The map fragments will not take up any inventory space and not even be listed in the inventory. On a character's profile page it may be possible to display their progress with the quest: (1/7 map fragments).

Obviously, having just the area of the camps mapped out will leave some large missing chunks in the torn map. There could be a hermit NPC that will complete the torn map once each fragment is obtained. The complete map can also have the feature of unlocking new territory. Talking to special elder NPCs will mark the map with locations that are viewable and enterable only by those with complete, marked maps.|
suggest_time=19:53, 6 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

Sure, this makes sense to me. Ideally, the special code (possibly including search outcomes, NPC interactions, non-item flags in character data, and so forth) would be generic enough so that it could also be borrowed to implement treasure hunts, scavenger hunts, secret locations, and other future plot-lines in Shartak. A Shartak map itself, even complete, would just show the same info that can be found via web or wiki, so it is not going to harm game balance. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 21:27, 16 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Living countermeasures against spirits===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill, balance change|
suggest_scope=Everyone who's sick of the gathering of banshees in their medical supply houses|
suggest_description=As spirits become more angry and desire ever-more the blood of the mortals around them, the shamans of the island have begun to develop ways to put them to flight or at least guard their fellow islanders against the terror that these ghosts inspire. In the course of circulating this information between the villages of Raktam, Dalpok, and Wiksik, however, it has been intercepted by outsider spies and delivered to the developing scientific communities that exist in the outsiders' camps.

To be concise, we've got a ghost problem in Shartak. I'm not sure how many villages this goes on in, but it seems that the spirits of the dead have taken up residence in the healers' hut of my beloved village of Wiksik. There are many living men and women also inside of this little abode, and all of us suffer from the shrieks and howls of the angry spectres, day after day. Some of our most skilled medicine-men have even lost their lives, struck dead from horror while they slept.

So, my suggestion?

I'm thinking about something around the lines of "spirit exorcism" skill that can be learned and used by shamans/scientist to banish spirits from whatever urban areas they inhabit. In order for this to be used, the individual must be in the same square as the spirit, in the village or camp that he/she originated from, and sense the spirit's presence. When used, the spirit will be flung out of the village/camp a long ways, perhaps 10 or 20 squares. This, I think, would be a reasonable answer to ghosts that find no better purpose in the afterlife than to haunt important huts in villages and try to scare the inhabitants to death...

(FYI, the Wiksik healing hut has 2 such spectres, and they're getting to be kinda irritating.)

Another such idea would be a "spirit ward" skill, also only usable by shamans and scientists, that would slow a spirit's movement and reduce the effectiveness of its attacks in the presence of a the shaman who holds the skill.

Another idea is that such a skill would allow the user to create wards out of certain types of items, that would be placed like a signpost in a square and produce a similar effect as above. This would last a finite amount of time before falling apart, and could be destroyed by mortals.|
suggest_time=19:54, 1 July 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Tenebrys|Tenebrys]]|
suggest_comments=


YES. I like this one. Spirits are annoying. [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 17:27, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

: Yes, 100%. To clarify: (1) Banshee wailers are unlikely to earn even 90 xp per day since the xp nerf, so spirit abuse isn't the problem. (2) Mortals who spend an AP or two each day to STEP OUTSIDE THE HUT take no damage from wailing (shaman chanting protects them), so "suffering" by mortals too lazy to spend 2 in each 72 AP protecting themselves is not the problem. (3) Living characters who spend their entire lives in the Medical Hut searching for FAKs (Healing Herbs) and healing each other easily earn 150 xp per day with no risk and no interaction. (Even death is nothing but a 30 AP inconvenience.) My adventuring character has visited Dalpok with GPS units but gained no XP, while my Medical Hut XP Farmer has gone nowhere, done nothing, and gained 5 experience levels in 2 weeks. Solution 1: Scientists/Shamans get an Exorcism skill to blast spirits 20 away in a random direction. Solution 2: Advanced spirits get an AP-intensive skill that allows them to prohibit use of healing items in their current location. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 18:24, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:: Banshee wailers don't really contribute anything to the game, as most of the ones I have seen simply spam the wail. I'm honestly not sure what purpose they serve beyond providing a lot of spam and some opertunity for an alternate way to gain XP besides combat. I would also disagree that healers do not interact, as there is often times conversation being held as well as healing other characters. Many times there remains no one to be healed in herbal/medical huts, so healers with take a trip outside to heal anyone they can find injured in the village. Honestly, I see it as a lot more interactive than simply running around and killing animals. So the question is, what role are spirits supposed to have in the game? Are they supposed to be a substainable pseudo-class or are they supposed to be a diversion from the living side of the game? I'm fine with either one, but if they are supposed to be a pseudo-class then I think they need something more than just a skill-branch which allows you to annoy people, as well as there would need to be a means by which living characters can forcibly deal with them. --[[User:Shosuro|Shosuro]] 3 July 2006

Ok, so does exorcism:
* banish just one spirit from the location?
* have a fairly high chance of banishing each spirit?
* have a fairly high change of banishing one spirit?
Whilst I can see shamans having this skill, and scientists having a similar skill with the same effect, would characters need to find an item such as a bible or a charm as well as having the skill in order to perform the ritual?

I think we're now at the point where this is likely to be the next thing added so get the ideas in! Wasn't there another section with a similar theme somewhere? Perhaps they should be merged. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:25, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

:Items necessary to perform an exorcismal ritual? Yes, I think so. At least -something- should have to be scrounged up or traded for, if shamans/scientists are to have such powers over the supernatural world...

:Looking around, I hadn't seen any articles that had similar such intentions, though. At any rate...

:As long as the items are available, exorcism should have a pretty high chance of getting rid of a spirit that is haunting an area. The odds should be such that a single spirit usually won't require more than two attempts at being cast out. If there is more than one spirit in the area, it might take multiple attempts before they're all gone; otherwise, as long as the exorcist is in the vicinity of ghosts and has the correct exorcismal supplies, he/she won't have all that much trouble getting rid of them.

:I can see this skill taking a good deal more than just one AP, though. Maybe three or five...

:As for the specific items? A bible and a candle or two would be sufficient for men versed in the religions of western civilization to carry out their duties when it comes to driving away supernatural beings. Natives, however, have different methods of dealing with ghosts and spectres they find -- their ceremonies may well make use of healing herbs burnt as offerings, driftwood used for talismans to ward off the dead, and even maybe a poisonous snake to help adorn a witch-doctor during ritual dances.

:Not sure if I'm going too far here, though... I haven't thought TOO deeply into the specifics of this skill. Others, especially shamans and scientists, feel free to add on... but stay rational. Not sure if I did the same... --[[User:Tenebrys|Tenebrys]] 22:22, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

:My preference would be to let a scientist or shaman exorcise one random spirit from their location for 1 AP and with a chance of reduced effectiveness (displacement of the spirit). The exorcism could be more effective if it took place near the exorciser's home camp and less effective if it took place near the spirit's home camp. (E.g., ''if (rand() > distToExorciserCampShaman/(distToExorciserCampShaman+distToSpiritCampShaman)) success=true''. This plays into myths of ghosts having homes/haunts that they prefer. I suppose displacement could be non-random and based simply upon the ratio just mentioned in italics, but the mysterious nature of an exorcism would practically demand unpredictability.) I wouldn't require any items and would certainly not cause items to be used up by exorcisms, because I think it makes less sense for spirit-world interaction to be a matter of potions and incense than for it to occur in a certain mental state (reached through intense concentration by scientists and chanting by shamans; the skill would be the same, but the flavor text would differ).

:I suppose I should mention that I'm trying to imagine spirits as existing in an alternate, simultaneous realm, not as misty apparitions capable of bumping things in the night and creating sound waves. (I guess that means screams, shrieks and wails damage a player's health by damaging their psyche and thus weakening their spirit-body connection, or something.) If anyone can provide a consistent (if fantastic) explanation of spirits in classical and/or Caribbean mythology, this might be a good place to do so. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 04:40, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

The previous discussion was tucked away on the Suggestion Talk page where it wasn't very visible. [[Talk:Suggestions#Exorcism|Exorcism]]. I'm not sure if merging is necessary, but some of the discussion there can carry over here. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 00:02, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:The AP cost of Exorcism can be compared to Success-Likelihood * Number-Affected * Distance-Displaced. Sending a spirit 15-40 squares away in a random direction seems like a good idea (imho they should land out of sight of the camp). This will cost the spirit 15-40 AP to recoup. To charge the same amount to the scientist/shaman, we could use an AP cost of (e.g.) 4 per Exorcism combined with a 25%-10% chance of Exorcism success. Unless Exorcism gives an XP reward, tho, there isn't much incentive to use it ... So with no XP reward, I'd be happier with a cheaper and more effective Exorcism skill. For example, cost could be 3-5 AP, and effectiveness could be 40%-50% (for example, 40% chance on one spirit, then if successful 40% chance on another spirit, and so on, if you want a very slight chance to banish multiple spirits). Certain charms (such as the Silver Cross for Outsiders/Outsider Knowledge) could either be necessary pre-requisites, or perhaps greatly increase the ritual's effectiveness. Perhaps the charm or cross is used to bless fresh water, which in turn becomes able to be consumed in Exorcism. I support more complex item interaction -- Shartak would benefit from item-dependent skills. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 05:09, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

::It'd be least jarring for players if successes seemed related to the odds of utter failure (i.e., no "failure, big success, big success, failure" stuff); for example, the odds might be 20% for a complete miss, 20% for a displacement of 1 to 3 squares, 20% for a displacement of 4 to 8 squares, 20% for a displacement of 9 to 15 squares, and 20% for a displacement of 16 to 25 squares. To get such an exponential distribution, get a random number from 0 to 5, square it, round it down, and displace the spirit by that number. In practice, this would mean a displacement of 20 or more squares would occur just 10% of the time, and the (mean) average displacement (if I did the integration properly) would be about 8 squares. Since exorcism will be the only way for a living player to harm a spirit, and assuming there will be no XP gain for using the skill, I think a cost of 1 AP per exorcism will be fine. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 03:18, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

:::Elembis gives another good method of implementing exorcism (Equivalently, you can generate a random number 0 to 1, then multiply by 25, then round down). From my perspective: In fine literary (movie?) tradition, I was envisioning an exorcism as an event that either works spectacularly or fails utterly (on any particular spirit). I can't think of many exorcism examples where the spirit is driven out of the bedroom into the stairway or the breakfast nook. So I'd be happier with an exorcism that kicked 15+ squares (or none at all). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 05:59, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I personally like the idea of ghosts and what not, but I hate the fact that as the living we have no effect on them. So I propose in the interest of gameplay distinction we only give the exorcism skill (the ability to banish spirits to a random location) to only the outsider scientist class and for the shaman class (given their nature) create a new “revive/raise” skill which like the NPC shaman’s in the game “return spirits to a body”, the percentage chance of success should be low (5%), with an XP reward of 5 or 10 (anymore would encourage farming) while everything else remains the same as a normal revive, this means shamans can force revive annoying spirits and/or promote party/group explorations as they don’t have to start over since it reduces the need to contact shamans (as long as the shaman is alive that is). To maintain fairness additional gameplay distinction may include the newly revived having only a half life (30HP instead of max HP) and/or more AP cost to stand up. Furthermore this new skill maybe tweaked to allow shamans to have a new avenue in necromancy powers over dead bodies like perhaps zombies.--[[User:A for anarchy|A for anarchy]] 02:52, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Scientists are men of reason and thus I do not believe they are the type who would use exorcism to banish spirits. I think they should use cameras (a suggested item) to capture the spirits and carry them away from the camp to a shaman.--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 04:41, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

''Moved from [[Suggestions:Skills]]:'' I feel that powerful native Shamans should have a greater degree of power over spirits. The skill would be in the same branch as the Sixth Sense and Seance abilities and would give Shamans the ability to exorcise a single identified spirit from the area for 5 AP. It would work by automatically moving the spirit a number of sqaures in a random direction (east, west, northwest etc). The power of the skill would be dependant on the level of the Shaman using it - the number of sqaures the spirit is moved will be equal to the level of the Shaman. For example, a level 15 Shaman with this skill would be able to use the skill on a spirit in the same area and send it 15 squares in a random direction. I feel this skill would do a great deal to make things more interesting for spirit players.
I think generally that the natives should have a greater degree of power over spiritual things than the outsiders (although they would have different advantages) --[[User:Zeff|Zeff]] 18:01, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:Indeed mystery commenter, I must admit though that I like the idea of using the Shaman's level to determine how many squares to send the spirit. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 20:26, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:Very good. Displacement depends on the shaman's level while the chance of success (assuming success isn't guaranteed) is static (around 40%, perhaps, with a 2 AP use cost) or dependent on the distances to the two parties' home camps (see my comment above) if that's feasable. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 22:44, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Isn't the repulsion of spirits against the Free Lunch principle? If a spirit player donated to be exempt from the action limit(though this can be done with an action limit), they could have a team of shamen pursue their spirit character to move them without using any of the spirit's AP. Even if movement is random they would find opportunities to scare frequently enough.--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 23:03, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
:Wouldn't that evoke the "curse" upon them for working together? At any rate I like the idea of being able to stick it to the spirits. Try one night in the York medical hut and you'll see what I mean. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 00:42, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've been tormented by ghosts and I think that we need to capture them with cameras, forcing them to revive instead of letting them wander back into town.--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 02:33, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Identification of strangers===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Ability|
suggest_scope=Identification of strangers|
suggest_description=As a native, I would like an "Identify an outsider" button when standing on the same square as one or more outsiders I can't recognize. (Outsiders would have the same thing for natives, naturally.) It's unrealistic that the best ways to identify people are to attack them or give them gold. It's also bothersome; gold coins are hard to find in the wilderness, and a cheapskate may attack a stranger only to regret the attack upon discovering that their target was a peaceful person. If you're the sort of player who likes to attack every stranger you meet, that's fine. However, many people do discriminate between strangers, and it shouldn't be unduly hard for them to simply figure out who someone is.

Identification would cost 1 AP. Flavor text could be something like
:You examine an outsider until you're able to tell them apart from all the others. They are {{profile|6|Leaky Bocks}}.

I estimate that this change will have the following effects:
# Identification before an attack will be easier and thus more attractive to moderately peaceful players, resulting in less "gratuitous cross-class violence" (as [[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] [[Talk:Identify_Friend_or_Foe|put it]]) at the hands of players who wish to avoid it.
# [[Identify Friend or Foe]] [[:Category:IFF supporter|supporters]] will no longer be subject to the current "peace tax".
# Non-participants in the IFF initiative will neither receive gold from curious players nor see who has identified them. However, after they are identified they may still be given gold or even spoken to (which I prefer from a roleplaying perspective) if cheaper identification makes people more willing to interact with those they identify. I know I'd rather spend 1.5 AP to identify someone and speak to them than 1 AP and a coin to merely identify them.

Since it's already possible to identify a stranger in ways that help them (by giving gold) or hurt them (by attacking), why shouldn't there be a more direct middle path?|
suggest_time=06:18, 28 July 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Elembis|Elembis]]|
suggest_comments=

I'm looking for a flaw in the reasoning here, but I can't find one. I support this. 18:40, 31 July 2006. [[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]]
* The only flaw I can see is already in the game. How do you figure out who someone is, just by giving them a gold coin or attacking them. *slash* Oh, scuse me a second while I check the back of your jacket for a name tag. Same sort of thing applies to staring at someone and figuring out what their name is. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 00:40, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
** "I'd like to stare at someone long enough to figure out what they look like and what they're wearing and carrying." I support this. For convenience, the game has already conflated face-recognition with user-profile. There doesn't exist an in-between level: either you know all their skills and their profile description, or you aren't able to target them at all. We could eventually migrate toward a solution (and perhaps introduce new skills and actions, such as Disguise that would conceal your skillset and kill stats). But in the meantime it would be nice to have the suggested convenience. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 21:05, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Drowning===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics|
suggest_scope=Environment|
suggest_description=Perhaps there should be some rules for drowning? Many players in Shartak (including my character, Zeff) like to camp/sleep in the water. I feel there should be a risk of drowning when a player spends a long period of time in deep water - shallow water would not apply. Perhaps something like this - If a player spends over 2 hours in the water "drowning damage" comes into effect (regardless of whether or not the player has the swimming skill) and every futher hour 10 damage is dealt to the player - either "drowning damage" or instant drowning after 3 hours - with a message "you have drowned".
Another additional possibility is have the character drift in the water - especially if they go into deep water - I like the idea of leaving a character in the water when you log out, and when you log back in they are washed up on another part of the island with most of their hit points missing. Although that might be a bit complicated to do...|
suggest_time=22:10, 1 August 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Zeff|Zeff]]|
suggest_comments=

* Nice. Drifting could be done, although it may make things complicated if you drift too quickly. I certainly don't think you'd move very far in a few hours otherwise it would be far too easy to lose sight of the giant squid you were attacking (for example). There would probably have to be some kind of data in the map that says where you drift to from that square, even if the drifting changes slightly. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 22:39, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
* Sounds like a good idea. Also, driftwood could possibly be incorporated into this, perhaps giving a lower chance of drowning, lower drowning damage, or maybe making the player drift further. -[[User:Peg-Hand Grimm|Peg-Hand Grimm]]

}}

===Pigeon postal service===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=improvement|
suggest_scope=Outsiders (I imagine a different version for Natives|
suggest_description=Right now I have encountered difficulties whenever I try to contact someone in game. There is (currently) no way right now of contacting people in game without finding them. To improve on that, I thought there should be a sort of postal service. The idea is simple. You go to a post office to do one of three things 1) buy a pigeon so you can write a letter from anywhere and send it to the post office (at a cost of 2 GC) 2) write a letter at the post office for posting (at a cost of 1 GC) 3) receive mail (at a cost of 0 GC). To prevent harassment of players you can even instruct the postal staff to burn any letters from ignoramus people (you must tell them before hand otherwise they will burn everything).

*''The postal staff has burned 3 letters from unwanted peoples since your last visit.''
*''You buy a pigeon at the cost of 2 GC. It looks anxious to be on its way home again.''
*''The post woman takes your letter and smiles knowingly.''

The idea may need some tweaking but this is just a suggestion on how to create in game messages.
|
suggest_time=17:06, 18 August 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=


Sounds like an interesting idea. The only real problem that might happen is that if you've off on long journeys, you may not have the time to stop into a town and check your mail. Perhaps the pigeons could also fly to you, where ever you may be, and give you the letter? --[[User:Che|Che]] 22:24, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Could you buy local pigeons and deliver them to another town for sale at a higher price?--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 02:25, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Since pigeons can only return to one place I imagine that foreign post offices would pay a premium for pigeons that can go to other cities. For example, a pigeon bought at York and will return to York is only 2 GC, but a pigeon bought at York that will return to Derby will cost 10 GC or more because you can't raise pigeons to fly to Derby in York.


}}

===Climbable Trees and high areas===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics and Skill|
suggest_scope=Environment|
suggest_description=This is more like two suggestions bundled into one, but they are closely related. I think climbable trees (areas of jungle) would be a great addition to the game. With the use of a climbing skill (perhaps easier to learn for natives) players can "climb" into the jungle canopy (for 5AP) providing the jungle is heavy (dark green and above). This would provide an excellent way to "hide" from other players and give another bonus which I will get back to. If a player chops jungle where a player is hiding above them, that player falls to the ground for a medium amount of damage. Other players would have a chance of spotting people hiding above them, each time they move to a different jungle area (50% and 100% if you use search in the area - a message "you spot *name* hiding in the canopy above you"). Also players will be able to jump from tree to tree for 2AP. Now, onto the "other bonus" mentioned earlier - this bonus also effects areas such as the mountain and the crows nest at the shipwreck giving "high areas" more of a tactical use. These areas should allow you to spot people (outsiders, pirates and natives) in the distance. When you are in one of these areas you would be able to "see" the number of people to the north, east, south and west - this will include areas such as north-east and south-west as "north" will mean a general cone shape north of the player. For example in the crows nest at the shipwreck, there will be a button "lookout" which would display the following text-
"You scan the horizons -
North - You see 1 native nearby.
East - You see 6 pirates nearby. You see 3 pirates in the distance.
South - You see 12 pirates nearby. You see 4 pirates and 2 outsiders in the distance.
West - You see 7 pirates nearby. You see 2 pirates and 4 natives in the distance."
Of course if you did this on the mountain, you wouldn't be able to see through solid rock.
The sight range would be perhaps 20 squares, anything over 10 squares is defined as distance. If this suggestion is implemented it will I feel it would add a whole new level to gameplay (literally!) as well as possibilities for watch-towers, and long-range rifle/blowpipe sniping!
|
suggest_time=11:49, 21 August 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Zeff|Zeff]]|
suggest_comments=

I had thought of climbable trees, but hadn't planned on people being able to move around whilst in the tree. The biggest problem with letting you see further is that (a) it'd require more processing to handle the extra 24+ map areas, (b) Displaying the map would be quite tricky due to the sizes of squares required to be able to hold text and icons. I had envisaged something like "You climb a tree. [down]" as the stuff on the right, no other actions except down. The left hand side would be a map area about the same size as currently, but where each block was replaced with a 3x3 area. This would give you the ability to see terrain from 7 blocks all around (15x15 grid). --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 00:52, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

To be honest, I wasn't thinking of actually showing the areas you can see, I was thinking along the lines a purely text feature, that would operate in a similar way to "search". There would be a button that would "list" each direction (N,E,S,W) and the players you could see in those areas. Actually displaying more sqaures on screen sounds pretty complicated... --[[User:Zeff|Zeff]] 19:58, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
:The problem with just text is not everyone is going to be directly north or west or south or east of you, most of the time they will be at strange angles. Simon's idea of a 15x15 grid when you climb a tree is a good one, if it is able to be done. Here's the idea I got while reading this suggestion: firstly, new item-telescope (explorers would start with one, they would be occassionally found in outsider towns. natives would have no access, like gps). Going atop a tree or crow's nest or climbing on top of ruins would give you four buttons: look north, look west, look south, look east-- but only if you have a telescope. Each would cost 5 or 10 AP (it would take a long time to throughly search with the horizon with your telescope.) You would be shown something like [http://www.itechsc.com/misc/shartak/ubermap/closeup.php?cx=-70648&cy=26343&dn=1&zn=1 this map] (but not as big), it would display the area north of your immediate area if you chose 'look north', south of yoru area if you chose 'look south, etc, and it would tell you where others are.
:- [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 23:18, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Zeff, You are on the right track with your hiding suggestion I think, but it shouldnt be atop trees. People should have an ability to hide in the jungle, and an on-ground hiding skill has been suggested before. I still think it is a good idea. Here is one version of the idea, suggested by Armadox on the forum:
<<Armadox_The_Butcher wrote: What about a skill that allows you to use your last 10 ap to hide in the foilage? It marks you off the map, like being a spirit. Spirits can still see you, and anyone searching the area can uncover you. but it'll keep your hide safer untill you log back on?>>
<<Arminius wrote: This is a good idea, but how about instead of having to search, someone who steps onto the same square automatically discovers you? But people wouldnt be able to see you from other squares like they can now. Currently if you are standing on any of the 25 squares in someone's line of sight, they can see you, but if you were to be hidden they wouldnt be able to unless they are on your square. This could serve as an ambushing skill as well as a hiding skill. By ambushing I mean hiding and then waiting till someone comes to a square near you to rest, and naturally they wouldnt know youre there, then you emerge to kill the poor sucker>>
<<Crowjane wrote: sounds generally nice, but what if everyone has it. I foresee no ambushing but endless travels without any human contact...>>
<<Tycho44 wrote: I like the idea of having an extremely expensive Hide Skill (12AP-30AP to use?) that only works to cloak you from those not in your square. By hiding, you would prevent animals and players from seeing and pursuing you unless they actually stumbled into your square (Trackers could use Tracking Skill). When the cost of hiding is high, many players will choose to step 5 or 15 spaces further back into the wilderness instead, so the game impact would be relatively mild. Also, hiding could require Jungle d5 or higher to use, just like concealed huts and trees. That would prevent ambushes from inside the town.>> ([http://shartak.forumsplace.com/message-152-15.html From here]).
 - [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 23:18, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Importance of the Islands of Shartak===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Improvement|
suggest_scope=Environment|
suggest_description=The many Islands of Shartak have been the source of some of the most heated conflicts seen to date; however, such islands truly offer nothing more then a secluded patch of beach and jungle. To make these Island more desirable, I think new or stronger animals should be confined to these Islands, or possibly an implementation of the "New Strategic Location on Island" suggestion. When Darwin visited the Galapagos Islands, he noticed that the species he found evolved separately from creatures on the mainland. The same should be true with Shartak.|
suggest_time=16:00, 23 August 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Gandhi|Gandhi]]|
suggest_comments=

Possible animals:
*Gorillas - stronger than a monkey, hit harder
*Rhinos - less HP than elephants, but more aggressive and hit harder
Or Mythical/Exotic Creatures:
*Ogopogo - like the Squid, but confined specifically to the waters around the Island; could possibly give special power/stat increase when successfully killed
*Dragon - Travels between all Islands; hits extremely hard, but flies to adjacent squares after hits; impossible to heal.
*Big foot - from adjacent squares, it is seen as "An Outsider" but once on the same square, he appears as Big Foot. Same stats as outsider, with more HP. [[User:Gandhi|Gandhi]] 16:00, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

}}

Suggestions:Game mechanics

2006-08-26T23:18:24Z

Arminius: /* Climbable Trees and high areas */

{{Suggestions header|page_type=Game mechanics}}

== Game Mechanics ==

=== Conversion ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=|
suggest_scope=|
suggest_description=When an Outsider/Native dies they are reborn as a Native (don't really understand the spirit thing too well). The Outsiders then get a new class/skill, "Religious Conversion" that requires a "Holy Scripture". This allows a "Priest" to convert one native into a Outsider". The converted native would most likely start off as a Settler.|
suggest_time=23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

*I believe that Natives are reborn as Natives and Outsiders are reborn as Outsiders, but I could be wrong. From a game balance perspective, I am not in favor of type-swapping skills unless Natives are presented with an ability to counter or convert Outsiders as well. It does fit nicely with the theme though. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:41, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

*That would probably be the shamans job, however it may have worked for Urban Dead but I don't think it will work in this game as whichever group has the most players to begin with will, once conflicts begin to arise, dominate by switching people from the side they are on the side the priest/"whatever the natives use" side making you able to graph one groups population by looking at the graph pop=(1/2)^x. Also since there wouldn't seem to be a way, short of finding a converter player to switch you back, to go back to playing as you once did would make the amount of people on one side quickly die off (even though thats what would happen in real life, favouring the outsiders) it would be a very unfun aspect of the game. And really these are HOSTILE natives, or so it seems, why would they let some devilman outsider tell it how it is? They wouldn't, they would simply spear them and laugh! In short all the converting ideas suck, I know I wouldn't want to log on to find I'm playing for the wrong side. -- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 10:55, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

*So that means if my soldier dies, he's reborn as a native? Not only that, but to become an outsider again, first I would have to find a priest (which would be next to impossible with such a small number of players), and then he could convert me into a settler. That means I'll never be able to be a soldier again, which is a real punch in the throat for RPers. -- Grigoriy

*All valid points. I guess this wouldn't really work we have the same number of players as Urban Dead. But this would be a great way to balance out the sides later on. Say there are too many natives, you just drop more "conversion items" and balance out the sides. Too many Outsiders? Just drop the number of conversion items. Doubt it would catch on though. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 02:44, 19 February 2006 (GMT)

*Conversion doesn't have to be forced. It could require action on both sides, like a native doning a religious item and an outsider using the skill on that native. After all, conversion isn't real without true faith. The native counter to this could be similar, requiring an outsider to die holding a packet of that headshrinking powder while a shaman uses the Zombification (ala Haitian witchcraft) skill. -- frisco

*You don't change class or anything when you die. --[[User:Murk|Murk]] 12:31, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

*I gave a response to this idea under "Holy Scriptures," I think, offering another idea for it that may piss a lot less people off. *points over there*--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:15, 29 March 2006 (BST)

}}

===Monsoon===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=event|
suggest_scope=all|
suggest_description=Add seasons to shartak, matching RL events. The sea level would rise by 1 square, the river would swell by 1 square, crocodiles would become plentiful, and the pirate ship would lift off of the rocks. The ship would then randomly drift around, 1 square per day, and would still be accessible but players would have to swim out to it. Deforested squares would also recover faster. The ship wouldn't be directable because 'The sail is too tattered to use.' or something. The monsoon would also match, more or less, RL duration.|
suggest_time=17:28, 16 July 2006 (EST)|
suggest_author=Aco|
suggest_comments=

*All this would be do-able without too much extra coding except for moving the pirate ship. It would however take a while to work out which bits of beach, swamp and jungle would become submerged and to do it in such a way that it's easily reversible later. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 22:39, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

}}

=== Capturing villages ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=|
suggest_scope=|
suggest_description=Since this is like some war between Outsiders and Natives I thought this appropriate. If all the (say) Outsiders are killed in York and there are none left, then it becomes a Native village and vice versa. Probably needs harder requirements to capture settlements though. Maybe each side could have one permanent place that can never change hands?|
suggest_time=03:41, 1 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

*Not sure about this - what about all the idle players within the village? They might "wake up" after a couple of weeks to find they're in enemy territory. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:00, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

*You could have it so idle players goto the nearest friendly village-- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 02:58, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

*Turf control in a limited AP browser game like this just invites lame zerging behavior. I don't like it. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:00, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

*Not villages, perhaps 3x3 square 'forts'? --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 01:10, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

*I do like the idea, but I think Jackel's observation hits a key point. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

*Agreed with Jackel and Lint and Simon. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 13:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT) Additionally:
** Please don't impose your assumption that Shartak is at heart a "war between Outsiders and Natives" on the rest of us. That is not the only possible direction in which this game can go. For example, an Outsider village might turn out to be populated by a trading company that views the other Outsider villages as competitors whose extermination would be good for business, but it could just as easily develop into a peaceful scientific outpost, a pirate haven of drunken debauchery, or a missionary settlement devoted to finding the Natives and learning their language (gotta spread that old time religion). I believe it would be better to keep the objectives more freeform, and let the players create the course of history. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 13:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
** On a hopefully more helpful and positive note, one could simulate/approximate capturing a village by amassing an army of suitable size, carving messages of ownership all over the territory of the village in question, killing all members of the village, and repeatedly killing the village shaman so they can't get back as easily. (Ouch. I hope no armchair megalomaniacs out there have been taking notes.) --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 13:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT)


}}

=== Unique skills ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill, balance change, improvement, etc|
suggest_scope=Who or what it applies to|
suggest_description=I think that each class should start off with one unique skill that the others may never aquire. That way it stops all the classes from becoming too generic. For example Settlers could have a "farming" skill, Soldiers could have a "bravery" skill, etc. Or mabey they could just have a attribute like Soldiers have an extra 10% chance of striking the target, Warriors have an extra 10% chance of finding animals, Settlers have an extra 10% chance of finding an item, Scouts have a 3% chance of recovering 1 HP per AP spent, etc.|
suggest_time=02:34, 5 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

*I am in favor of this (if it is not in effect currently). We'd have to work out the details to make sure each class is getting their fair share, but something that encourages players to try other classes or team up with other players using different classes for a better playing experience sounds good to me. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

*I am in favor of each class being able to acquire (but not necessarily starting off with) a unique skill or attribute that the others may never acquire. Sounds to me like the kind of thing that would be unlocked as one's reward for a rite of passage, rather than granted as a right of birth. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 12:53, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

*Perhaps a Research skill of some kind for the Scientist, maybe allowing them an advantage when doing things with dead animals (would need something to do with dead animals, obviously!).[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 16:09, 16 March 2006 (GMT)

*Pirates should have a skill to steal their fallen enemies' gold coins. Arr. Would probably result in a lot of outsider in-fighting, though, and outsiders are currently outnumbered.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:18, 29 March 2006 (BST)

*I agree with this as well. It seems Shartak is on the way to giving each class their own benefits (Soldiers/Warriors with gun skills, Settlers/Villagers with animal affinity etc.), but so far only a few have been made unique. At present there is really no point to being a scientist. He starts with 10 gold coins... what the? So I'm pushing for each class to have at least one unique skill they can purchase with XP. --[[User:Rip Purr|Rip Purr]] 11:50, 3 June 2006 (BST)

*I feel the introduction of the unique skill system would make the game much more interesting. but i disagree with the idea that people should just start off with one, rather i feel it should be purchased like the other skills on offer. Additionally rather they have one skill strand/branch like that of the gun skill or animal affinity, it would be interesting and more fun to have a multiple skill branches in line with the specific character classes, like for instance giving the soldiers/warrior classes defensive skill strands in additional to their offensive ones. Furthermore there should be distinctions between the native & outsider classes so they’re similar yet different. Like for instance the firearm/blowpipe skill upgrades are currently identical, I hope in future they could be retooled to promote native/outsider gameplay differences. --[[User:A for anarchy|A for anarchy]] 03:47, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

}}

=== Pet System ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics|
suggest_scope=All classes|
suggest_description=I will combine aspects of the '''Animal''' and '''Pirate''' suggestions and propose a pet system that allows you to tame one of the animals on the island. First, you have to weaken the animal. Then you throw a sphere device at it and shout "SHARTAK SPHERE! GO!" for 1 AP. There's a slight chance that you have captured and tamed the animal. The more powerful the animal, the less success chance. You earn no XP for taming an animal. Players can only have 1 pet at a time. They can release a pet whenever they want. If the owner dies, the pet runs away. Pets have fixed HP, attack, and accuracy based on the type of animal they are (ie. they do not level up or heal, just to keep it simple to design). They follow the player around and only attack when the player attacks. It would be nice if they attacked while you were not playing, but auto-defense mechanisms are unnecessary. Enemy animals randomly determine whether they are attacking the owner or the pet. Other players will have an option for targeting the owner or pet. There is no XP gained for attacking or killing a pet to deter any attempts at farming pet killing (I can't believe we even have to consider preventing such a thing). For added flavor, owners can name their pets.|
suggest_time=08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*ROTFL. Sounds a bit like Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh (don't worry, I'm not a fan, I have kids that were!). Perhaps instead of spheres, you could keep the monkeys on a leash, heal a tiger or elephant to make it less likely to attack you, tame deer by feeding them, etc. Some animals like the wild boar would have to be pretty difficult to tame. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:14, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
*I was with you right up until you got to the "sphere device" bit, and I rejoined you afterwards. ;) The rest of your suggestion otherwise seems to be pretty well thought out. Personally, I'd prefer to attempt to tame the animal into becoming a pet purely by offering it food, rather than "weakening" it by other means. Especially since food is scarce enough that offering it to an animal would be a real sacrifice and therefore an interesting decision for the player to make. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:49, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
*I will confess that I had a lot of fun with the references. The problem I have with using an existing item to tame a pet is how to implement it. The player can't click on the fruit, because that will just heal themselves. And I think it is unecessary to redesign fruits like First Aid Kits and Medical Herbs, just so they can feed it to an animal. And a database check to see if the player possesses a fruit before providing a "tame" command seems awkward. Perhaps there is just one item called "animal bait" (from the Trade Hut most likely). It works much like a FAK or Herb, but can only be applied to animals (though there will be a "Yourself" option by default for those players that decide they enjoy the taste). Animals will then have a value called "tame count" in the database. For each successful feeding, this number is incremented. When a specific number is reached, the monster is successfully tamed. If a monster is killed, the number is reset to 0. Acquiring a pet should not reduce the population of animals on the island (ie. one should respawn to take its place). Furthermore, those with '''Animal Affinity''' should have a better taming success rate. (This is another attempt to give Villagers and Settlers a little boost.) --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 17:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
*This idea, while somewhat interesting, is not very realitic. The animals of the island are wild. In reality, tigers, elephants, deer, "WILD boars" etc can only be made LESS WILD by extensive and careful training and handling when they are young, not be tamable by any means, certainly not enough to follow a person around and fight on their behalf. Maybe it would be possible with parrots and monkeys, but if Simon is going to implement changes, I'd rather see some of the more believable ones first. I do agree with Lint that it would give more value to '''Animal Affinity'''. Animal attacks, even from a tiger or elephant (which would realistically be very dangerous) are hardly to be feared, making this skill currently seem pretty useless.

* ''The following is a Pet suggestion made by [[User:Richard Rose|Richard Rose]] on 21:47, 24 March 2006:''

as the name reades, simply have "pets" as a survivor living in the jungle, my first instinct would be to find support, in this case we could add a "tame animal" button, which would be clicked to tame an animal, the starting catching % would be something like 10% and could be improved the more the animal is damaged, like at 1hp, if full health was 10hp then you'd have 55% of catching it, (i added 5% for every 10% missing from the creature's health)
this could also be improved with new skills such as

*Amateur Catching Skills (adds 10%)
**Catching Skills (adds 15%, doesnt stack)
***Taming Skills (adds 30%)
*Net (adds 10%, does stack)

certain animals could be ridden, other would do funny things or find objects for you, ex:
Mr. Bobo the monkey finds a bottle of rum in your pocket "gee i didnt know i had that"

elephants, large stags, and tigers could be ridden, small stags would haveto grow up before being ridden, after like, 10 days, or 20 kills they would mature, its all just theory...

parrots could become like flares, ex: Mr. TweetTweet flies towards you and drops a message "help, im at X, Y and there's a native village!"

the parrot could also say messages randomly, players (upon catching a parrot) would be given 10 slots and would type things into them, the parrots would randomly say one, ex:
you attack elephant, Mr. TweetTweet says "polly want a cracker"

animals could also act like extra space, like a backpack, if you will.
animals are named upon capture.

}}

=== Profile Effect Items ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics|
suggest_scope=Inventory and profiles|
suggest_description=These are useless baubles that take up 1 unit of a player's inventory space, but if anyone views their profile they will see that the players possesses the item. Using the item won't accomplish anything and merely produce flavor text. However, if a player is in the presence of another player, using the item would show it off. As with all items, there's no way to trade them with other players. We can have eyepatches and peglegs. We can have tribal masks and warpaint. Maybe some clans would require a certain dress code. Maybe they need 30 pieces of flair. I think it provides an outlet for the less serious gamers. Problems: Serious gamers might be plagued with finding such items and dropping them, wasting (in their opinion) AP and Page Hits. Also, arguing over what items fit with the theme of Shartak will be a headache-inducing process.|
suggest_time=08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*I like this suggestion. How about finding the pieces of the masks and making your own - combine the baubles with mini-quests? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:18, 8 March 2006 (GMT)
*For example, to make the sacred warrior mask of Raktam, you must find 5 parrot feathers, a tiger tooth, some berries and a piece of driftwood that can be carved into the appropriate shape with a knife or dagger. Once you have all those items, you get a "create mask" option which then removes the required items and the mask appears in your inventory (and profile).
**Having the database check to see if they have all the ingredients seems a bit unwieldly. After every action or inventory use it might have to run the check to verify that they are alive, still have the items, etc. I'd just settle for having them take the items to a specific NPC. But yes, a mixing quest would be fun. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 18:02, 8 March 2006 (GMT)
***No, you could easily set it up so that no demands were placed on the server. For example, a recipe that required 5 parrot feathers, berries, driftwood, knife/dagger, and a tiger tooth might only activate upon clicking a tiger tooth amulet: "You try to assemble your Tiger Fetish, but you are missing 3 parrot feathers." In my opinion, there should be hidden flags for characters as well, "visited cave-in", "visited oasis", and so on, so that players would have to discover the Tiger Fetish recipe / assembly process first: by visiting some secret tunnel network, "Engraved on the stone walls is an elaborate recipe for assembling a Tiger Fetish, requiring ..." (if you are fluent at reading Native). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 13:59, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

* I just hope that this idea motivates players to try new things ("I'm going to join a clan that wears such-and-such a mask and attack the others! Yarr!") and not feel that the game is just about collecting items ("Well, I got all the masks. I guess I'm done with the game."). --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 18:02, 8 March 2006 (GMT)

*Maybe the different masks have different effects, from some simple ones (attracting/scaring animals, making them less likely to attack or easier to hit) to the downright blatavt video game reference that turns you into a huge brown rocky guy who can punch boulders apart. OK, maybe not the second one. [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 20:53, 9 March 2006 (GMT)
*I think that's something to be worked on in a separate suggestion. The point of this suggestion is to make useless "fancy hats" that neither add or take away from the established gameplay. However, in the eyes of certain players, they may be invaluable because of how they can incorperate such items into their goals and roleplaying. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:52, 9 March 2006 (GMT)
**Bumping this good suggestion. Let's have some cowrie shells! (And The_Conch(tm), see next suggestion.) The barren ruins and huts seem so sad and pathetic right now, they need some wacky useless trinkets to tide us over... Maybe we need shovels to dig for treasure, too. Yarr! --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:06, 10 May 2006 (BST)

}}

=== Conch Shell Hunt ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, minigame|
suggest_scope=Event|
suggest_description=''Capture the Flag''-ish minigame. Somewhere on the island is a single conch shell item. It can be found by searching anywhere. It takes 1 inventory space and appears when anyone views their profile. When the conch holder is in the presence of other players, flavor text is added to the area description to inform the others that the conch holder is in the area. If the person in possession of the conch drops it, dies, or is idle for more than 5 days, the conch returns to the system. The person who holds the conch the longest gets recognized in the statistics. Killing the conch holder earns special bonus XP. Adept conch holder killers may also be recognized in the statistics. Problems: Someone with multiple characters could take advantage of having the conch on one character and reap the XP and fame with another. There will be a point where a race condition will occur and might result in multiple conches and a broken game.|
suggest_time=08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

* This kind of thing has been on my ideas list, although this is much more detailed version than the one-liner I had. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:05, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
*''I'' have the conch! I'm allowed to speak! *ahem* I mean, um... >.>--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:21, 29 March 2006 (BST)
** Suggestions: (1) Skip bonus for the conch-killer and you remove incentive to zerg. (2) Have the conch break when the conch-bearer dies (respawns on a random beach) and you remove the race condition. (3) Give the conch-bearer an action to blow into the Conch. (You hear the booming echo of a conch being sounded to the south-east.) Maybe 50% chance of 1xp each time you blow the conch, just to give you incentive to attract attention to yourself. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 02:31, 23 April 2006 (BST)


}}

=== Know your foes ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=|
suggest_scope=|
suggest_description=As a native, I get killed a lot by outsiders, but I just can't strike back when I come back to life, as nothing allows me to identify my agressors amongst the outsiders I meet. I expected some basic language skill to give me access to clickable outsiders profiles, but it doesn't. So. I don't like much the fact that, in this game, the only alternative you have is "attack random outsiders" or "attack none". I'd like to be able to protect myself without being too unfair to peaceful outsiders (and being part of some snowball effect).

This would be partly solved by some profile access (allowing to check people's amount of human kills), or some limited displayed info on the present players (it would make -almost- sense for natives to automatically carry visible scalps or shrunken head of their victims, but I'm not sure how to justify the kills display in the case of outsiders, despite of the fact white men were actually quite fond of indian scalps at some time). Another useful tool would be some urban-dead-like contact list.

Of course, ideally (but absurdly) the most useful stat to be able to see would be the number of kills of people without human kills at the moment of their death, but...|
suggest_time=15:08, March 16, 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=Leaf|
suggest_comments=

*Perhaps seeing the profile of someone on the opposite side if you or they have the advanced language skill would be good, it would be cool to hang around with some natives without worrying about aggressors. --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 21:30, 18 March 2006 (GMT)

*If you had a contact list and some way to target individuals on your list ala Urban Dead, I'm guessing that would probably help. Not so sure about the scalp display approach. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 23:36, 18 March 2006 (GMT)

*A contact list would be quite useful in Shartak. But also being able to read profiles, maybe through an "observe" button and scroll-down menu. For the moment, people just hit each other once, hoping to miss, in order to get a link to the other guy's profile. There must be a more rationnal way to quench this curiosity. -- Gone 13:36, 10 May 2006 (GMT+1)

* Basic contact list functionality added. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
** Can now edit the comments and change the type of the contact from friend to enemy or neutral. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:17, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

}}

=== Forest Fire ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, natural disasters|
suggest_scope=Terrain|
suggest_description=This is a potential temporary minigame that will either lead to players to band together and save the island or perhaps just lead to all-out chaos. A fire script is created which designates one block as fire (it is identified by a little fire.gif in the background). Every 20 minutes the fire script will check if there is <del>Grassland or</del> Jungle nearby with density from 1-10. If there is, it spreads to the next block. It will not spread to any other terrain (including villages and ruins). Thus, the best way to prevent the spread of the fire is by chopping vegetation down to 0. The initial fires will be placed randomly around the island. Actions performed in a fire occupied space deal 2 damage. For this event to be more devious, there should be a means to quickly restore vegetation (dropping driftwood, planting fruit, watering with gourds).|
suggest_time=03:58, 17 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*I like some things about this suggestion, I think it could work really nicely if there was also a rain algorithingamajig, so that maybe, if some part of the island dried out, wildfires could break out, or if it rained too much villages could flood and get swamped. Its a neat idea. -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 04:55, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
* I like the idea of rain and fire, however there's no telling if the server would handle the database access/calculations required when the number of players gets into the range that Urban Dead has. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:17, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
** I thought it might be a bit much. Ah well. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 19:32, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
** Not the idea of fire itself, that may well be quite feasible. I meant having rain causing flooding, or not enough rain leading to fires might be a bit awkward.. unless I can think of some way to reduce the work that needs to be done regularly. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 23:38, 18 March 2006 (GMT)
* Maybe fires could also destroy huts, and then there could be a skill to rebuild them. Maybe even give people the ability to start their own fires. It might make for interesting tribal wars. -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 18:22, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
** Imagine what would happen if an ammo hut caught on fire!--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 04:32, 1 April 2006 (BST)
** I kind of wanted to restrict fires to the Jungle (removed my Grasslands comment from the original suggestion) since a lot of Huts provide resources for starting players and players that have just been revived. I think it would be unfair to prevent them with the opportunity to gather supplies. As a tactic, it may also be unfair. Native villages appear to be completely surrounded by burnable Jungle, while Outsider villages are bordered by the Beach. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 19:46, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
** Good point. The pirates would be completely free of burning too. I still think a way to temporarily damage structures could be fun -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 19:59, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
** As a general rule, real world jungles don't burn terribly well, although there are a few notable exceptions (such as the Indonesian forest fires in 1997-98). Grasslands, however, burn quite regularly, and in fact such fires are necessary for the good health of the grass. Fire kills off sapling trees in the area which would otherwise grow to the point that they overshadowed and killed the grass. I don't know whether the game has any grasslands large enough to make this kind of thing interesting, though. --[[User:Jackdaw|Jackdaw]] 15:55, 25 March 2006 (GMT)

}}

=== The Ghost Elephant ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, miniboss|
suggest_scope=Event|
suggest_description=Somewhere on the island is an animal that exists purely as a temporary event. The Legendary Ghost Elephant - in reality, an aggressive albino pachyderm of incredible size - is said to roam the island of Shartak. Some Natives revere it, others desire to be recorded as the one who slayed it. Some Outsiders wish to study it, others desire to have it as a trophy. It behaves much like any other elephant on Shartak. However, it has a different label, an unfathomable amount of HP, and deals horrific damage. If you heal the Ghost Elephant with a FAK or Herbs, you receive double XP. And to further serve a challenge, don't place an HP cap on the Ghost Elephant, just give it a starting amount. If possible, a log of all actions performed on the Ghost Elephant should be kept by the server and revealed in the event that it dies.|
suggest_time=03:58, 17 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*Ha! I like this one, Lint, and simple to implement. It should really have a boatload of HP, as I think few will consider expending valuable healing items on it, when its far easier (and more rewarding) to hack away at it for 40 AP then make a run for it! --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 16:42, 17 March 2006 (GMT)

*Arr! I would ride that ghost beast like a horse jus' fer fun, then slay 't t' sell its tusks t' them outsiders an' th' meat t' them natives. --[[User:El Pirata Cofresi|El Pirata Cofresi]] 17:46, 17 March 2006 (GMT)

*In the Congo they refer to it as Mokele Mbembe - he who stops the flow of rivers - and it is rumoured to be a lost dinosaur. The island could do with some cryptozoology. Would this creature be able to disappear or hide or move incredibly fast? If not, then once one person finds it, they can just call everyone over to the same square. This kind of defeats the mythical aspect as well as adding potential server problems. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 18:24, 17 March 2006 (GMT)

*I should make the animals attack back in near-realtime first (as in you attack them and they may or may not get an attack in).. just to add a bit of interest to it and stop people running up to the creature and hacking and then running away. Making an animal with an almost unlimited number of HP would be possible.. I guess probably start it with at least double a normal elephant and max of about a thousand HP to prevent people healing it to the point where it'd be impossible to kill. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 18:37, 17 March 2006 (GMT)

*It could be cool, especially if it moved around in a way that made tracking it possible, maybe by destroying the foliage, or moving in a pattern. Also having it move might help keep people from all winding up in one square beating it up. -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 18:41, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
**I've tried to offset the game's focus on combat by encouraging healing (double XP may be too much of a reward, so I'm willing to remove that), but that alone will most likely be not enough to counter the horde of blood-thirsty savages! Healing with the Herbs and FAKs may actually be seen as healing the Ghost Elephant spiritually rather than merely physically, which is why it's health can grow high. I don't see a problem if it became near-unkillable. I like keeping some myths and legends around. I thought that it would be best if it traveled like an elephant, but it is true that it limits the people that are able to participate in the event. Perhaps it should "teleport", after a certain amount of time in an area - "A wall of fog sweeps in through jungle. When it fades, you see that the Ghost Elephant has vanished as well." I requested for a log of actions to determine who killed it, who attacked it the most, who healed it the most, and who got hurt the most. Also, rather than a recurring animal, I thought it would be best to release it as an event that occurs every now and then. Or maybe only once! --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 19:32, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
***Hmm, when the elephant reappears, it should give a loud trumpet which can be heard over a certain radius to increase the chance of players coming across it. Unless of course players would prefer that it were more stealthy. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:25, 4 April 2006 (BST)

*I like it. And of course, you needn't stick to land animals; a mysterious sea creature that patrols the island waters and is reported to be 30ft long could prompt more people to vernture into the waters for a glimpse/trophy etc. Sharks will also be a problem for those searching! --[[User:Malphas|Malphas]] 15:52, 19 March 2006 (GMT)

*I ''love'' this idea.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:08, 28 March 2006 (BST)

*Great idea!--[[User:Paradox244|Paradox244]] 21:04, 24 May 2006 (BST)

*Ah, yes! I was wanting to suggest 'rare' animals as a possible addition, to give variety to the fauna and to provide something for my clan to pursue.--[[User:John Sevier|John Sevier]] 19:17, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

}}

=== Auto Attack ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=|
suggest_scope=|
suggest_description=I've never liked the fact that while I am away from the game, things can happen to my character, like being chewed on by a tiger or slashed with a machette. How about a setting where you can turn your character on to auto attack anything that hits you. It should, of course, be user selected. This would change the game mechanics a bit, as you could no longer move in on a target and attack it withough fear of a counter-strike. To me this is far more realistic, in that even if you are sleeping, when somebody hits you, you're going to wake up and do something about it with whatever engery you have left.

An alternative selectable action might be an auto-run. You can pre-specify the direction you want to run and how many squares upon being hit. A character with trekking could stay alive just by running a few square whenever they are hit.|
suggest_time=02:34, 20 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Qberry|Qberry]]|
suggest_comments=

* The main problem with this is that players will be discouraged from attacking other players, as this will become extremely dangerous, and the native warrior who wants the outsiderts out will effectively be penalised.[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 15:47, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
* Sorry, but I don't like this. I feel that that this will lead to interactions with players that are no different than interacting with an NPC. Could someone theoretically max themselves out by just leaving this option on and checking in every now and then to make sure they haven't become a spirit? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 17:28, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
* Yeah, I'm not a fan of being able to do something by not doing something, such as fighting or running without being there to fight or run. Also, would it be free of AP and IP hits, or would it be possible to come back and have no AP or hits left? It seems like these problems would wreck any sort of auto action. I can understand not enjoying being macheted while away, but I don't see any way around this. -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 18:20, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
* I must admit that I don't like the idea all that much, but if it was implemented it would probably be something that was user configurable. I don't think running away would make sense, but fighting back does. For example, no more than X AP to be used fighting back until you next log back in, and they wouldn't be used unless you had more than Y AP left. This way you could set X to 10 and Y to 6 and if you ran out of AP, set those values, it would be 2 hours (6 x 20m) before you were likely to attack, and it would use no more than 10 AP fighting back. Because the values are configurable, it would be hard to know who would fight back and who wouldn't. Setting X to 0 would disable the feature. I think probably the attacks would gain XP if successful, same as normal, but because you wouldn't be able to set the number of AP to use to more than your max AP value, it would be impossible to level up a character by simply leaving them alone (not to mention you would disappear from the map after being idle for a bit). --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 21:01, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
* i like the idea of counterattack , but with some limits. You have only a % of counterattacking someone (25%?) , you don't consume AP , you don't get XP. But , whit wich weapon do you attack?--[[User:JonesDye|JonesDye]] 10:05, 27 March 2006 (BST)
* The impetus behind auto-attack is to lessen the chance and impact of Badness happening to your character while you're away, but auto-attack isn't the proper solution to this. Shartak's appropriate skill would be jungle hiding, though a construction skill would work too, if we want to be more like that other game. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 13:51, 4 April 2006 (BST)
* What the animals are doing now is basically what I was saying should be an option for players. In fact, now that the animals counter-attack, it's become far more safe to attack a high-level soldier than it is to attack a parrot. All the more reason to implement this feature. It will also introduce more strategy into gameplay, such as how many AP to reserve for counter attacks, etc. It could be as simple as: enable auto-attack (toggle), if enabled, select weapon (pull-down menu), select AP to stop self-defense (pull-down?). If you select 0, you'd attack until exhausted or they left. If you select some non-zero, you'd attack until you were down to that amount. I kill a lot of other players, but I still say this would be very good for game mechanics, especially considering the new animal behavior. --[[User:Qberry|Qberry]] 06:00, 1 June 2006 (GMT)
** I would only agree with that one if it was only against animals. I don't think auto-defense was a good idea ''at all'', but now that it's in, I think that ours should only work against NPCs.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 20:11, 1 June 2006 (BST)
*** Unfortunately this could only exacerbate the Banshee Wailing Spam problems. An auto-defense option is worthless against spirits, and Banshee Wails could easily be the leading cause of damage and death in Shartak (during May 2006). Implement Exorcism before worrying about AP-costs and pull-down-menus for melee parry defense systems. --20:48, 1 June 2006 (BST)
**** Exactly. Actually, I've been thinking more on this. It's really a good thing that the animals are so dangerous now. The focus should be more on the struggle between natives and outsiders. Plus, it makes Animal Affinity that much better, which gives a good reason to play a villager or a settler.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 23:48, 1 June 2006 (BST)
*I support this idea in theory, but of course it must be approached carefully. I like JonesDye's idea of not gaining XP for counter-attacks, and there are so many other factors to consider. QBerry-- you should start a thread about this in the forums to get all sides of the debate and get discussion going. This could be a great feature if implemented correctly. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:47, 4 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Flavor Text===

this section is where "users" add "flavor" to the game, im just suggesting that every few steps the computer say a message depending on location, here ill give a few examples:

*'''grasslands'''
**the grassy field sways under the wind's rush as you take a step.|
**something far off squaks and makes a strange throaty bellow.|

*'''water'''
**a wave crashes calmly in the distance|
**a spalsh can be heard from far off|

*'''jungle'''
**a parrot's call can be heard distantly|
**the bushes nearby are rustling from the small wildlife in them|

*'''village (outsider)'''
**the smell of gunpowder wafts into your lungs|
**the smoke comming from a nearby hut smells of fresh turkey|

*'''village (native)'''
**the shaman's voice can be heard traveling through the village|
**you step on the bones of what appears to be a rattlesnake|

*'''beach'''
**the hot sand burns your feet, yet feels wonderfully different|
**several sea shells catch your eye from far off|

please feel free to update these with more, as they are just a list (if simon decides to) that will be used for flavor.
i want to do this because the game gets kinda boring simply traversing through square after square

''Comments''
* One of the noticeable, distinct aspects of that other game are the different messages for each building; i really like this idea. A criticism, though - i'd refrain from mentioning living animals/people or useful items in the descriptions, they could be confusing to newbies. In other words, "a parrot's call can be heard distantly" isn't appropriate, and "the shaman's voice can be heard traveling through the village" might not be appropriate if the shaman is currently dead. The following could substitute: "You see a large ant colony busily rebuilding their hive" (an animal that has no game impact) and "The spirit of Shubar is felt all around you" (doesn't matter if Shubar is alive or dead). --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 14:05, 4 April 2006 (BST)
* I sort of feel like this is something that could easily be put together with a Greasemonkey script. It would be nice, but it isn't really necessary. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 05:35, 5 April 2006 (BST)
:* See the end of the list at [[The Shartak Wiki:Community Portal#Greasemonkey scripts]]. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 23:31, 11 June 2006 (BST)
----

===slots/ new inventory===
slots and inventory could be implemented where, a picture of a silhouette was shown, with names of equiped items in slotted areas, ex: you skin a goat, find some sharp rocks and fashion yourself some claws, you then put them on, giving you +1 damage to all melee attacks
[[Suggestions:Items#animal wearings|animal wearings]]

"Comments below"

Making Claws? and not "all melee attacks" but only punch attacks --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 06:45, 29 March 2006 (BST)

I don't see why you need item slots for this. Having a pair of claws in the inventory would just improve punch damage by 1. That said, I don't like the idea of making oneself claws. Seems a little silly, when you have actual weapons around. Seems a little silly, either way, really. Perhaps that's just my sense of aesthetics, though, and not that of the majority of the players.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 06:37, 4 April 2006 (BST)
----

===Boat Construction===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=|
suggest_scope=|
suggest_description=Boats wouldn't be able to go into The very deep water people can't go into because the tides would rip them apart but could go move in all water for only 1 AP and it also prevents sharks from biting you. Multipule people could get into a boat based on how much wood is used, like
n*.001 x 1 = People Where n = The amount of wood used.

''Edit'':

When Boats are being boarded each player may vote on who they decide should be the captain. The captian may move boat, call the boat any non vulgar name and anyone may jump off the boat at any time except the captain. Boats could only be built on a beach and automaticly once built move the person who constructed it into the nearest water square. Players may board the baot at any time by moving into the same square as it and selecting enter. When the captain moves the boat onto a land square the boat is destroyed and all people who boarded are thrown onto the beach. Players may change the captain at any time by changing there vote. Natives can not board Outsider boats and outsiders can not board native boats. What the boat looks like and is called depends on the size of it.

1 person: Raft

2 people: Large raft

3-4: Small boat

5-6: Boat

7-9: Large Boat

10-24: Huge Boat

25 and up: Gigantic Boat|
suggest_time=06:42, 29 March 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Slith|Slith]]|
suggest_comments=

*check out the skills section, i already suggested something like that.... anyway, check it out --[[User:Richard Rose|Richard Rose]]
*While the huts are handled in Richard's suggestion, I am interested in the boat aspect. I think that placing multiple players on a boat will be troublesome. Who decides where the boat goes - the server? the first player on the boat? It's also important to keep in mind that we already are offered a skill to help with moving in water - '''Swimming'''. If we are to introduce rafts, there should be some mechanics set in place to minimize their usefulness. Perhaps carrying a raft through non-water terrain doubles movement cost to discourage players from carrying one everywhere. Perhaps the raft only has a limited amount of moves in deep water before breaking up. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:44, 29 March 2006 (BST)
** Yeah I changed the suggestion based on your suggestion's :) --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 04:40, 30 March 2006 (BST)
*"Welcome to the Shartak ferry sevice. Please pay the captain your fee of 3 coins. We will be departing for the pirate ship in 3 hours. The captain has locked the destination coordinates and will not change directions unless the boat's integrity is threatend. We will arive in 50 AP + 10 AP per passenger + 5 per day due to drift. You are encouraged to help paddle the boat as this will help us arive sooner. If you decide to leave the boat at any time we will not refund you or allow you to reboard. Please do not pull out any corks or kick any boards as the boat is fragile and will sink if badly damaged."--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 05:06, 1 April 2006 (BST)
** Yeah ^^ That too --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 00:48, 3 April 2006 (BST)
* Boats sound cool. There are a lot of different ways to implement boats that aren't that complicated. Here's one example: suppose that a boat can hold 4 people. Anyone who wants to control the boat spends 4 AP to move the boat one square (larger boats move more slowly). Thus the boat could wander back and forth depending on who currently has the helm, but is unlikely to travel faster than a swimmer. Anyone (native or outsider) can dive overboard or climb onboard at any time, and the boat can be chopped up and destroyed by enough effort. ... The way I envision it, a boat never leaves the water -- the boat gets constructed on a beach square and then can only be moved onto water. It is never an inventory item. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 09:31, 2 June 2006 (BST)
**That's a good idea. I would go so far, though, as to say that it has to be constructed in shallow water.It would just make it easier. I would propose that the boat require four pieces of driftwood, plus two for every extra person. Thus a 1-man raft would be 4 pieces, a 2-man raft would be 6, a 3-man would be 8, and so on.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 18:26, 2 June 2006 (BST)
***Although there's no reason not to require, umm, a boatload of wood for construction, rather than just 2 + 2 per person. If the boat has any advantages at all over swimming, you could easily require huge quantities of wood without game imbalance. The original suggester had 1000 pieces per person, that's over the top, but why not 18 wood per person or something. That means N sailors could build an N-person boat in a single day searching at Shartak's [[Boatyard]]. Although construction might require another day of additional AP, and a hammer... --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 23:07, 2 June 2006 (BST)
****I'd be in favor of boat construction, but it should be ''significantly'' harder and MUCH more time consuming to work, really only the most hardcore players should try it. Realistically, a person should need about 20 pieces of wood to displace their own body weight, so 20 wood per person is about right. It should take at least a week of devoted searching to come up with this amount for one person, and would require a fair amount of organization to build a large craft, but come on, its a BOAT! Virtually no attacks from anyone ever! Easy access to hard-to-reach islands! It should be extremely rare and time-consuming to do this IMO.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 05:18, 3 June 2006 (BST)
* i reckon the boat idea would be great especially for the CP so we are land police of york and water police of york!,hopefully this does work out!. [[User:Riddick|riddick]] 21:17 10 June,2006 (GMT).
*If boats are implemented, wouldn't it make sense to allow pirates a special skill regarding them? After all, the pirates on Shartak were all sailors before wrecking their ship. It would only make sense if they (for instance) used fewer AP to sail or something similar. [[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]] 8:53, 11 July 2006 (GMT)
*I think that boats could add a valuable dimension to the game once more pressing issues (such as spirit exorcism/warding) are dealt with and the active population of the island grows by a few hundred (because boats would spread players out over an even larger area and make people even harder to find outside of camps). Anyway, here are my ideas.
**Regarding boat speed, realism would demand that boat travel be faster than swimming in at least some cases. At best, a boat should be able to travel from York to Derby (for example) faster than anyone could make the trip on foot (~160 AP with ''trailblazing''; see [[User:Elembis/Sandbox#Camp travel distances|my sandbox]]). Furthermore, a four-person crew should be able to outrun or at least keep up with a boat with just one person onboard. I think a boat should move for 1.5 AP regardless of how many people (up to 4) are in it. With cooperation, a full crew could make the York-Derby trip (~276 squares east to west) in 276 × 1.5 / 4 = 103.5 AP per person, or a little under a day and a half. A 1.5 AP move cost for boats would make swimming faster for a single player in shallow water but not in deep water, and a crew of two or more people would be able to outdistance any swimmer.
**The boat would have a virtual helm, and only players at the helm (captains) would be able to set the boat's course (one of the eight compass directions) and sail off-course if they desired. Non-captains would only be able to move the boat in the direction of the course or the two adjacent directions (so a NW course would only allow them to move N, NW and W). The helm could be shared, but only an empty helm could be taken (i.e., you have to kill the captain(s) first). This would keep players from climbing aboard and sailing far off-course (or perhaps to shore in hostile territory). A captain who left the boat would return as crew and would need to be promoted again by whoever had the helm.
**Boats could be entered, exited, or boarded from another boat for 1 AP. Players would leave boats (1) voluntarily, (2) by being killed, or (3) if they were not a captain and a captain forced them off for 1 AP.
**Construction would occur on the beach, as Tycho suggested. (A one-time script would flag beach squares next to water, and construction of boats would only be possible on those squares.) It would progress one piece at a time to (1) avoid unrealistic near-instant boat construction and (2) to allow multiple people to contribute driftwood to the effort. There would be a 1 AP "Build" button and a dropdown box for all boats on the square. ("[Build] <nothing / Ye Olde Boat> with a piece of driftwood.") After contributing a piece of driftwood a player would see how many more pieces the boat needed. There would also be a form for starting a new boat with one piece of driftwood. ("[Start building] a new boat named [text input].")
**Boats would be attackable with melee weapons and could disintegrate slowly (1) when they are unoccupied, (2) when they have been under construction for more than a week, and (2) as they travel. A boat would only disappear from the game if it had 0 HP and had been that way for an entire week. (A script could run every ''x'' hours to check for unoccupied boats and damage them, and a nightly script could check for destroyed and abandoned boats and delete them.) For realism and gameplay, it should be easier to kill all four passengers on a boat than to destroy the boat itself as well as more rewarding (i.e., hurting a boat would yield few XP, if any). Attacks that targeted the boat would be visible to everyone onboard just as if they themselves were being attacked. Players onboard would be attackable by anyone on the square, whether the attacker is riding in another boat or swimming. (If sailors were not attackable, natives raiding outsider camps would be able to take sanctuary in boats just offshore.) Giant squids would attack boats about as often as they attacked the people onboard (unless a passenger had attacked the squid, in which case the squid would focus on that player until they were dead). Sharks, however, would leave boats and their occupants alone.
**Most important, in my opinion, is that the best boat builders and/or repairers would be settlers, villagers and pirates. While boat construction would be too fun to not share, those three classes need unique skills. An exclusive repair skill might be appropriate; unskilled captains would push a boat until it couldn't go anywhere (or hire someone to repair it), but settlers/villagers/pirates would be able to repair boats (including any abandoned ones they found). Fully repairing a nearly destroyed boat should probably be about half as expensive, in terms of both AP and driftwood, as building a new one. Needless to say, boats could be a real chore to implement, but they would surely make the game even more distinctive and rich. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 20:48, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Poisoning===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, status effect, balance|
suggest_scope=All classes, primarily Warriors|
suggest_description=Currently, the blowpipe can only carry 1 dart, yet weighs the same amount of inventory space as a rifle with 2 bullets. If you were to pit a fully leveled Soldier armed with loaded rifles against a fully leveled Warrior armed with loaded blowpipes, the battle is in favor of the Soldier who requires less time to reload while inbattle and dealing superior damage. (rifle's 5 to blowpipe's 4).

To address this, I would propose that poison darts actually cause poisoning. Poisoning would behave much like a shark bite - causing 1 HP damage per action performed until they are administered a FAK or medical herbs. A character can die if poison is left untreated. The attacker receives no additional XP for this kill or the damage dealt from poison. Poisoning would not stack, but it would be possible for a character to suffer from both poison and shark bites. The introduction of poison may require the dart's damage to be reduced to something substantially lower. Perhaps a default of 2 HP inflicted.

Up for discussion - does poisoning have a percent chance of occurring, an AP lifespan (only lasts 10 moves), and perhaps only works on non-npc characters?|
suggest_time=18:38, 6 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*Sounds great! I've heard that some of the toxicins used to poison darts can induce illutions. It would be interesting if poisoning increases AP usage for certain actions or even better imagined enemies (that Sixth Sence could pick out).--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 08:24, 7 April 2006 (BST)
* Have you seen the size of the some of the blowpipes that certain tribes carry? They're anything from 6 to 10 foot long! It's hardly surprising that they occupy the same inventory space as a rifle :) On the other hand, poisoning from darts sounds like a good idea.. I don't know that they should poison forever though, maybe for a limited number of AP, but perhaps have the effect be cumulative up to a certain point? Get shot 5 times and you lose 1 HP for every AP used for 5 x whatever the limit is. Does that make sense? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 21:16, 7 April 2006 (BST)
***Exactly - e.g., each poison dart that hits adds 2 AP to the poison duration, and while poisoned, you lose 1HP per AP used. The Poison Dart would eventually inflict 6 hp of damage, offsetting the extra damage and double barrel of the rifle. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 07:22, 12 April 2006 (BST)
**That might work, that way the Warrior has incentive to continue using the blowpipe multiple times on a target rather than just switch to their machete after the poison takes effect. Add to the character table a boolean flag (Poison = True) and give it a Poison Timer int. When the timer reaches 0, the Poison gets flipped to False. When the character dies or a FAK or Herb is applied, the Poison gets flipped to False and the timer gets set to 0. If the flag is True and they're poisoned again, stack the timer. I'm going to put forth this suggestion to the Forum. I don't have a lot of experience with using the blowpipe (I'm a machete guy) so they should weigh in on this. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:17, 7 April 2006 (BST)
* Or how about you can find [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_dart_frog#Toxicity frogs] and use them to put differnt posion effects on your darts? --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 04:57, 11 April 2006 (BST)
:*If we're adding poison dart frogs, I demand that they be lickable. It wouldn't be right, if you couldn't lick the poison dart frogs.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 20:14, 11 April 2006 (BST)
::* Ok... then some benifical frogs too! And people can't tell the diffrence between them unless they get some skill? --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 06:27, 17 April 2006 (BST)
*Bump! Awaiting a short lifespan (eg 4hp) additional poison effect for poison darts. And/or Native-only Poisoning skill so that Snake + Dart = uberdart that causes permanent poisoning (aka shark wound). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 20:51, 1 June 2006 (BST)
* Short lifespan poison effect added a little while ago. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 22:43, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

}}

===PvP Protection===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, pvp, nopvp, vs, player versus player|
suggest_scope=All Classes|
suggest_description=A full implementation of player versus player protection. This would be a nice feature for newbies allowing them time to adjust to the game without getting slaughtered. I envisage something allowing you to enable nopvp without the ability to disable for at least 100AP. Also when you hit a player who is flagged nopvp then you would get a message along the lines of "As your blade bounces off an invisible shield you suddenly notice a shamanic medicine pouch around the neck of target, they are protected, it would be pointless to continue to attack target." where target will be replaced by the players name.|
suggest_time=10:00, 13 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Iamtas|Iamtas]]|
suggest_comments=

* This is a good, well-thought suggestion. But while I don't generally like PKing, I think it is important to keep it available to those that do enjoy it. With XP penalties and easy resurrection, PKing not ruining the game from my perspective and it shouldn't be restricted further. I would not mind a method of informing players that view my character profile to see that I am flagged for pvp or not, but I am against preventing PVP without purchasing such an ability. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 21:16, 13 April 2006 (BST)
* New players already get an AP bonus and need less XP to level; I don't see the need for a newbie specific ability. I'd rather see a safe area over a moveable system - something like a sacred hut in native villages and a guard hut in outsider villages which anyone who hasn't attacked another player in 100 AP can enter and within which all PvP activity is prohibited, wastes AP, or perhaps results in HP loss only to the attacker ("Your attack has angered the mighty (spirits or guards) in the area; they smite you").--[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 04:12, 14 April 2006 (BST)
*Having both a PvP pirate and a pacifist shaman, and having been PKed on both... I don't like this idea. I like the 100AP newbie status. I don't like the "enabling" nopvp. Sorry. Death is a part of the game. If you walk into a tribe of hostile headhunters, they aren't going to just stand by and let you through--no matter how peaceful your business.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 04:27, 14 April 2006 (BST)
*I'm aware that new players get extra AP and newbie protection isn't what this is about. It is more useful for being protected from the players that sit in their home town bashing away at their own folk. Even with that said my main reason for nopvp was for another idea I have for a skill track that at the time of thinking about it I thought would require a nopvp implementation. I may post the skill track idea sometime when I have finished thinking about all the details.--[[User:Iamtas|Iamtas]] 12:07, 14 April 2006 (BST)
*How about you can't be attacked in your village/settlement by people that come from your village/settlement? --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 06:30, 17 April 2006 (BST)
*As much as I don't care for PK-ing (especially against newbies like me!), it is something many people enjoy (and I am in full agreement with [[User:Wifey|Wifey]] about how newbies could visit enemy territory and be invincible) and is an excellent way of gaining XP if you choose to do so. I second the notion of having a PvP free hut in each settlement/village; perhaps disable the attack command entirely while in there? As a penalty for using such a hut, there should be no resource items there, so that players will still need to 'risk' being in resource huts to restock. Or, at least charge 5AP to enter (you have to talk your way in or at least convince the guards to allow you entrance; thus people who 'play it safe' will need to conserve their AP as they are not taking risks). One of the hallmarks of games like this is AP managment, and most of us learned that the hard way...--[[User:John Sevier|John Sevier]] 19:28, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

}}

===New strategic location on island===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=New location, Game mechanics, |
suggest_scope=N/A|
suggest_description=I think the addition of one or more major new "strategic" locations on the island would greatly improve the game. What exactly it would be can be worked out, all it really ''has'' to be is very valuable to occupy and far away from any village or town (i.e. far away from any shaman). Both sides would rush to occupy this location and would fight each other for control of it.

This would have 3 major benefits for the game that I can see: 1) It would get the action away from towns/villages/shamans, 2) It would make death more meaningful and make killing an enemy meaningful (all death means in towns/villages now is having to float five spaces or so to the shaman and then you get a free revive. There are no easy/free revives out in the center of the island, you would lose both location and the 50 AP to contact, unless you decide to stick around and play as a spirit), 3) It would give people a goal in the game, a major location to fight over and defend, a location that isn't pointless to fight over, as towns/villages are because they cannot be taken. All in all it would have the benefit of making the game more fun.

As far as what the new location would be exactly, one idea could be gold mine(s). They would be valuable because standing on a gold mine square would give you 1 gold coin/hr and require no AP expenditure. The specifics of this are wide open and dont even much matter, as long as the location is far from settlements and very valuable to occupy so players will flock out there and fight for control, making for an exciting time and making killing enemies non-pointless.

If implemented, it should only be one new location at first, with maybe a couple more introduced later once things get going. The location should have a name, and it should be relayed to players in the form of Game News so that everyone knows of its existance and where it is in general terms, e.g. "A gold mine was discovered just south of the mountain, Natives and Outsiders are both rushing out there for control".

''Note: One of the raisons d'etre for this suggestion has been eliminated with the shaman changes, so this suggestion is less relevant than it was and in some ways outdated. It might still be workable, though it will have to be approached differently.'' [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:27, 4 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_time=21:02, 22 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Arminius|Arminius]]|
suggest_comments=

* I realise it was just an example, but 1 gold per hour without any AP requirement is probably a bit much. Definitely something to expand on though. I like it. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 21:46, 22 April 2006 (BST)
** For example, award 1 gold coin to any one player at random who is on the mine for at least the full hour. Or only award 1 gold coin at random to any one player if only one side occupies the mine -- if both outsiders and nativers are present, they are fighting for control and no one is mining. Generally speaking, 24 gold coins per <s>hour</s>day fed into the entire game will not mess up the economy -- that's probably less than 75-150 AP of searching (and a trip to the trading hut). Alternatively, allow players to search the area with a <s>15%</s> 40% find rate for one gold coin, as long as none of the opposing faction are present in the square. Drawbacks: (1) This sort of high-impact location could also increase zerging/cheating, which wouldn't be fun for anyone. (2) A gold mine could rapidly devalue gold coins until they're effectively worthless, ending the "value" of the mine. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 02:22, 23 April 2006 (BST)
***Giving out small numbers of coins to only a certain percentage of the people on the mine square seems too low a reward, while the original 1 gold coin per hour is definitely too high. But unless people get something tangible every hour that they stand there, people may not bother to fight for control of the mine, which is the whole point. Here is an idea: Make a new item called "gold nugget". Every hour that you are standing on the gold mine square and your faction controls it, you get one gold nugget. Then create a hut 1 square adjacent to the mine and inside have an NPC called "gold prospector Jim" (for example), who will "cash in" your nuggets, 10 nuggets (or 5, or whatever is deemed the best number) for one coin. Gold nuggets on their own would have no value. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 14:57, 29 April 2006 (BST)
****You could achieve the same effect without creating a prospector hut just by giving a straight 10% (or 20%) chance of 1 gold coin each hour. (To me a single "prospector Jim" gets a bit sketchy if a thousand people are rushing the mine...). In my opinion, you get better scalability and realism if the gold-per-person decreases as people increase. If there are a thousand people on the mine, then each person gets only 5% chance per hour (=50gc/hour production). If there are 10 people on the mine, then each one gets a 100% chance per hour (=10gc/hour production). Gold can't be earned from the mine when competing factions are on the location, creating a contested site is the purpose of implementing this suggestion. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 09:41, 2 June 2006 (BST)
::::If there is a 10% chance to get one gold coin per hour, and if during a large portion of the day both natives and outsiders are on the gold mine square so no mining is going on, then the odds would be that the lots of people would get 0 gold coins (or very few) before being killed, a total waste of time for them, and they might not bother going back after they're killed, which defeats the gold mine's purpose as a strategic location that people will fight over. This is why I say people need something tangible every hour. In fact, that should be revised to "something tangible every AP turnover", i.e. every 20 minutes. Even if someone is there for only a short time, they should have something to show for it, which they almost certainly wouldnt with a low % chance per hour of getting one gold coin. Your idea of scaling the gold that the mine produces could be implemented by making Gold Prospector Jim give fewer gold coins the more nuggets he receives. In other words, a gold mining version of the current trading system. Since he will have received 0 gold nuggets as the mine is first discovered, one gold nugget could trade for one gold coin, and as more people start cashing in, the value of a gold nuggest would go down, to where he wants 20 or so nuggets for one gold coin. The value would fluctuate throughout the day and week as people cash in more gold nuggets. This way, scalability is achieved while continuing to be able to reward something tangible every AP turnover. Also, I would say gold nuggets should take 0 inventory space just like gold coins, since in theory 72 could be given out per day to one person, and that would fill up anyone's inventory, allowing them to not receive any more. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:27, 4 June 2006 (BST)

* An alternative to the gold mine would be some kind of ancient treasure hoard, so not just gold coins but also statues, ancient armour and maybe some pretty nasty weapons. However, to get the good stuff you'd have to go into the trap-filled maze and actually make it into the chamber where the treasure is. With spirit-proof doors so people don't just die, go in, find the correct route, revive and go in...[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 17:33, 24 April 2006 (BST)
**This is interesting but seems overly complicated, and seems like more of a one-shot kind of thing, but most significantly there is no real value in holding such a location. A gold mine would be a simple, straightforward, and constantly of high value to occupy. Also, once one person finds the way through the maze, soon everyone would know. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 14:57, 29 April 2006 (BST)
***Good point... Ignore my suggestion, it's not very good... [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 12:27, 2 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Life cycle===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=balance change|
suggest_scope=NPC animals|
suggest_description=Currently the main way of leveling up is by killing things (i.e. NPCs & characters) I suggest there be some sort of life cycle for animals. For example, when there are massive amounts of tigers being killed less spawn. But if everybody leaves tigers alone, more spawn. If would look something like this:
:0-5% of animal type killed, x5 spawn rate
:6-15% of animal type killed, x2 spawn rate
:16-45% of animal type killed x1 spawn rate
:46-75% of animal type killed x0.5 spawn rate
:76-99% of animal type killed x0.1 spawn rate
:100% of animal type killed, animal is extinct
 This forces people to find alternative ways to gain Xp (possibly more lucrative ones?)|
suggest_time=03:22, 29 May 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

I have the funny feeling that animals would start going extinct, which would just be a pain. I'd rather not see this one implemented.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 15:50, 29 May 2006 (BST)
: Would work if there was a total animal population that was always kept, so if tigers start to become extinct more deer appear, but this would lead to an island of only elephants. Would also work if the animals that were extinct reemerged later on, then it would just be annoying. But the goal of "find alt ways to gain Xp" won't be realised via this manner - it would instead lead to more player vs player action. Instead of taking away our current methods, perhaps other methods of xp gaining could be added, like the agriculture skill, or some current activities could have an xp bonus (we get xp for uncovering trees, why not for finding fruits? Could trading become xp-worthy?).--[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 16:47, 29 May 2006 (BST)
:: I don't know why we should force people to find the lucrative alternative ways to gain XP. Animals are extremely rare in some areas of Shartak, and PKing and PvP is common. Banshee wailing spam, punch-heal farming, and gratuitous healer orgies are annoying enough already. Basically, the non-healing/non-harming XP paths need to be more viable: XP for exploring, chopping, discovery, contacting foreign villages, and so on. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 10:01, 2 June 2006 (BST)


}}

===Message in a bottle===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=New item, message system|
suggest_scope=All characters in Beach terrain|
suggest_description=Much like the "make signpost" action, creating a message in a bottle will only be available to players standing in Beach terrain. Unless the "Refillable containers" suggestion is implemented, to create a message in a bottle will require a bottle of beer, bottle of rum, or bottle of water and some newer items - parchment and charred driftwood or berry paint. There would be a textarea and a button, much like the existing message actions. Upon clicking the "make message" button, the items required are removed from the player's inventory and their text message is added to the database.

Although it would be neat to actually see the bottles floating in the water and following unique movement patterns, that would lead to some very cluttered areas. So instead the message in a bottle becomes a rare search result in Beach terrain.

When a player finds a message in a bottle the system generates a random number and selects the associated message to that number from the database. After reading the message, the player has the option to destroy or return the bottle. Destroying the message in a bottle removes it from the database. Returning it throws the bottle back into the sea to be found again. There should probably be a default message in the event that all the unique messages are destroyed or the search odds could be modified to reflect that there are no more messages in a bottle to be found.

Each message could also have a stat to display how many times the message was read before.|
suggest_time=05:33, 6 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

Nice idea. I'd rather have the message bottle also be rare-findable in water. I think it'd be kind of neat to have some items found in water, even if only text messages generated by other players. The suggestion does await parchment, although I think that berries alone would be sufficient for ink ("you write in berry juice") rather than requiring a separate ink item. Implementing parchment might get a bit complicated - I'd prefer a very streamlined approach so that players aren't carrying around six (or 71) different message'd parchments at once. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 21:23, 16 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Map quest===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Quest|
suggest_scope=All characters, new NPCs|
suggest_description=There is a limited usefulness for the map for those without access to the mapping scripts. There is also a limited incentive for players to explore foreign camps. This suggestion provides a simple quest for players to hopefully address both issues.

Each town will possess a new NPC (or possibly a retooled home shaman or trader) that has a fragment of a map. The fragment will display the general vicinity around the camp. After a player interacts with the NPC and acquires a map fragment, they can view map.html and see two new buttons: "view torn map" and "compare maps". "View torn map" will display the collection of map fragments acquired by the player. "Compare maps" will overlay the player's personal map on top of the torn map.

I imagine the map fragments to resemble the parchment look featured in the game logo, but each camp might use a different medium or writing implement which will give the torn map a patchwork appearance.

The map fragments will not take up any inventory space and not even be listed in the inventory. On a character's profile page it may be possible to display their progress with the quest: (1/7 map fragments).

Obviously, having just the area of the camps mapped out will leave some large missing chunks in the torn map. There could be a hermit NPC that will complete the torn map once each fragment is obtained. The complete map can also have the feature of unlocking new territory. Talking to special elder NPCs will mark the map with locations that are viewable and enterable only by those with complete, marked maps.|
suggest_time=19:53, 6 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

Sure, this makes sense to me. Ideally, the special code (possibly including search outcomes, NPC interactions, non-item flags in character data, and so forth) would be generic enough so that it could also be borrowed to implement treasure hunts, scavenger hunts, secret locations, and other future plot-lines in Shartak. A Shartak map itself, even complete, would just show the same info that can be found via web or wiki, so it is not going to harm game balance. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 21:27, 16 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Living countermeasures against spirits===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill, balance change|
suggest_scope=Everyone who's sick of the gathering of banshees in their medical supply houses|
suggest_description=As spirits become more angry and desire ever-more the blood of the mortals around them, the shamans of the island have begun to develop ways to put them to flight or at least guard their fellow islanders against the terror that these ghosts inspire. In the course of circulating this information between the villages of Raktam, Dalpok, and Wiksik, however, it has been intercepted by outsider spies and delivered to the developing scientific communities that exist in the outsiders' camps.

To be concise, we've got a ghost problem in Shartak. I'm not sure how many villages this goes on in, but it seems that the spirits of the dead have taken up residence in the healers' hut of my beloved village of Wiksik. There are many living men and women also inside of this little abode, and all of us suffer from the shrieks and howls of the angry spectres, day after day. Some of our most skilled medicine-men have even lost their lives, struck dead from horror while they slept.

So, my suggestion?

I'm thinking about something around the lines of "spirit exorcism" skill that can be learned and used by shamans/scientist to banish spirits from whatever urban areas they inhabit. In order for this to be used, the individual must be in the same square as the spirit, in the village or camp that he/she originated from, and sense the spirit's presence. When used, the spirit will be flung out of the village/camp a long ways, perhaps 10 or 20 squares. This, I think, would be a reasonable answer to ghosts that find no better purpose in the afterlife than to haunt important huts in villages and try to scare the inhabitants to death...

(FYI, the Wiksik healing hut has 2 such spectres, and they're getting to be kinda irritating.)

Another such idea would be a "spirit ward" skill, also only usable by shamans and scientists, that would slow a spirit's movement and reduce the effectiveness of its attacks in the presence of a the shaman who holds the skill.

Another idea is that such a skill would allow the user to create wards out of certain types of items, that would be placed like a signpost in a square and produce a similar effect as above. This would last a finite amount of time before falling apart, and could be destroyed by mortals.|
suggest_time=19:54, 1 July 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Tenebrys|Tenebrys]]|
suggest_comments=


YES. I like this one. Spirits are annoying. [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 17:27, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

: Yes, 100%. To clarify: (1) Banshee wailers are unlikely to earn even 90 xp per day since the xp nerf, so spirit abuse isn't the problem. (2) Mortals who spend an AP or two each day to STEP OUTSIDE THE HUT take no damage from wailing (shaman chanting protects them), so "suffering" by mortals too lazy to spend 2 in each 72 AP protecting themselves is not the problem. (3) Living characters who spend their entire lives in the Medical Hut searching for FAKs (Healing Herbs) and healing each other easily earn 150 xp per day with no risk and no interaction. (Even death is nothing but a 30 AP inconvenience.) My adventuring character has visited Dalpok with GPS units but gained no XP, while my Medical Hut XP Farmer has gone nowhere, done nothing, and gained 5 experience levels in 2 weeks. Solution 1: Scientists/Shamans get an Exorcism skill to blast spirits 20 away in a random direction. Solution 2: Advanced spirits get an AP-intensive skill that allows them to prohibit use of healing items in their current location. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 18:24, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:: Banshee wailers don't really contribute anything to the game, as most of the ones I have seen simply spam the wail. I'm honestly not sure what purpose they serve beyond providing a lot of spam and some opertunity for an alternate way to gain XP besides combat. I would also disagree that healers do not interact, as there is often times conversation being held as well as healing other characters. Many times there remains no one to be healed in herbal/medical huts, so healers with take a trip outside to heal anyone they can find injured in the village. Honestly, I see it as a lot more interactive than simply running around and killing animals. So the question is, what role are spirits supposed to have in the game? Are they supposed to be a substainable pseudo-class or are they supposed to be a diversion from the living side of the game? I'm fine with either one, but if they are supposed to be a pseudo-class then I think they need something more than just a skill-branch which allows you to annoy people, as well as there would need to be a means by which living characters can forcibly deal with them. --[[User:Shosuro|Shosuro]] 3 July 2006

Ok, so does exorcism:
* banish just one spirit from the location?
* have a fairly high chance of banishing each spirit?
* have a fairly high change of banishing one spirit?
Whilst I can see shamans having this skill, and scientists having a similar skill with the same effect, would characters need to find an item such as a bible or a charm as well as having the skill in order to perform the ritual?

I think we're now at the point where this is likely to be the next thing added so get the ideas in! Wasn't there another section with a similar theme somewhere? Perhaps they should be merged. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:25, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

:Items necessary to perform an exorcismal ritual? Yes, I think so. At least -something- should have to be scrounged up or traded for, if shamans/scientists are to have such powers over the supernatural world...

:Looking around, I hadn't seen any articles that had similar such intentions, though. At any rate...

:As long as the items are available, exorcism should have a pretty high chance of getting rid of a spirit that is haunting an area. The odds should be such that a single spirit usually won't require more than two attempts at being cast out. If there is more than one spirit in the area, it might take multiple attempts before they're all gone; otherwise, as long as the exorcist is in the vicinity of ghosts and has the correct exorcismal supplies, he/she won't have all that much trouble getting rid of them.

:I can see this skill taking a good deal more than just one AP, though. Maybe three or five...

:As for the specific items? A bible and a candle or two would be sufficient for men versed in the religions of western civilization to carry out their duties when it comes to driving away supernatural beings. Natives, however, have different methods of dealing with ghosts and spectres they find -- their ceremonies may well make use of healing herbs burnt as offerings, driftwood used for talismans to ward off the dead, and even maybe a poisonous snake to help adorn a witch-doctor during ritual dances.

:Not sure if I'm going too far here, though... I haven't thought TOO deeply into the specifics of this skill. Others, especially shamans and scientists, feel free to add on... but stay rational. Not sure if I did the same... --[[User:Tenebrys|Tenebrys]] 22:22, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

:My preference would be to let a scientist or shaman exorcise one random spirit from their location for 1 AP and with a chance of reduced effectiveness (displacement of the spirit). The exorcism could be more effective if it took place near the exorciser's home camp and less effective if it took place near the spirit's home camp. (E.g., ''if (rand() > distToExorciserCampShaman/(distToExorciserCampShaman+distToSpiritCampShaman)) success=true''. This plays into myths of ghosts having homes/haunts that they prefer. I suppose displacement could be non-random and based simply upon the ratio just mentioned in italics, but the mysterious nature of an exorcism would practically demand unpredictability.) I wouldn't require any items and would certainly not cause items to be used up by exorcisms, because I think it makes less sense for spirit-world interaction to be a matter of potions and incense than for it to occur in a certain mental state (reached through intense concentration by scientists and chanting by shamans; the skill would be the same, but the flavor text would differ).

:I suppose I should mention that I'm trying to imagine spirits as existing in an alternate, simultaneous realm, not as misty apparitions capable of bumping things in the night and creating sound waves. (I guess that means screams, shrieks and wails damage a player's health by damaging their psyche and thus weakening their spirit-body connection, or something.) If anyone can provide a consistent (if fantastic) explanation of spirits in classical and/or Caribbean mythology, this might be a good place to do so. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 04:40, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

The previous discussion was tucked away on the Suggestion Talk page where it wasn't very visible. [[Talk:Suggestions#Exorcism|Exorcism]]. I'm not sure if merging is necessary, but some of the discussion there can carry over here. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 00:02, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:The AP cost of Exorcism can be compared to Success-Likelihood * Number-Affected * Distance-Displaced. Sending a spirit 15-40 squares away in a random direction seems like a good idea (imho they should land out of sight of the camp). This will cost the spirit 15-40 AP to recoup. To charge the same amount to the scientist/shaman, we could use an AP cost of (e.g.) 4 per Exorcism combined with a 25%-10% chance of Exorcism success. Unless Exorcism gives an XP reward, tho, there isn't much incentive to use it ... So with no XP reward, I'd be happier with a cheaper and more effective Exorcism skill. For example, cost could be 3-5 AP, and effectiveness could be 40%-50% (for example, 40% chance on one spirit, then if successful 40% chance on another spirit, and so on, if you want a very slight chance to banish multiple spirits). Certain charms (such as the Silver Cross for Outsiders/Outsider Knowledge) could either be necessary pre-requisites, or perhaps greatly increase the ritual's effectiveness. Perhaps the charm or cross is used to bless fresh water, which in turn becomes able to be consumed in Exorcism. I support more complex item interaction -- Shartak would benefit from item-dependent skills. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 05:09, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

::It'd be least jarring for players if successes seemed related to the odds of utter failure (i.e., no "failure, big success, big success, failure" stuff); for example, the odds might be 20% for a complete miss, 20% for a displacement of 1 to 3 squares, 20% for a displacement of 4 to 8 squares, 20% for a displacement of 9 to 15 squares, and 20% for a displacement of 16 to 25 squares. To get such an exponential distribution, get a random number from 0 to 5, square it, round it down, and displace the spirit by that number. In practice, this would mean a displacement of 20 or more squares would occur just 10% of the time, and the (mean) average displacement (if I did the integration properly) would be about 8 squares. Since exorcism will be the only way for a living player to harm a spirit, and assuming there will be no XP gain for using the skill, I think a cost of 1 AP per exorcism will be fine. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 03:18, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

:::Elembis gives another good method of implementing exorcism (Equivalently, you can generate a random number 0 to 1, then multiply by 25, then round down). From my perspective: In fine literary (movie?) tradition, I was envisioning an exorcism as an event that either works spectacularly or fails utterly (on any particular spirit). I can't think of many exorcism examples where the spirit is driven out of the bedroom into the stairway or the breakfast nook. So I'd be happier with an exorcism that kicked 15+ squares (or none at all). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 05:59, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I personally like the idea of ghosts and what not, but I hate the fact that as the living we have no effect on them. So I propose in the interest of gameplay distinction we only give the exorcism skill (the ability to banish spirits to a random location) to only the outsider scientist class and for the shaman class (given their nature) create a new “revive/raise” skill which like the NPC shaman’s in the game “return spirits to a body”, the percentage chance of success should be low (5%), with an XP reward of 5 or 10 (anymore would encourage farming) while everything else remains the same as a normal revive, this means shamans can force revive annoying spirits and/or promote party/group explorations as they don’t have to start over since it reduces the need to contact shamans (as long as the shaman is alive that is). To maintain fairness additional gameplay distinction may include the newly revived having only a half life (30HP instead of max HP) and/or more AP cost to stand up. Furthermore this new skill maybe tweaked to allow shamans to have a new avenue in necromancy powers over dead bodies like perhaps zombies.--[[User:A for anarchy|A for anarchy]] 02:52, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Scientists are men of reason and thus I do not believe they are the type who would use exorcism to banish spirits. I think they should use cameras (a suggested item) to capture the spirits and carry them away from the camp to a shaman.--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 04:41, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

''Moved from [[Suggestions:Skills]]:'' I feel that powerful native Shamans should have a greater degree of power over spirits. The skill would be in the same branch as the Sixth Sense and Seance abilities and would give Shamans the ability to exorcise a single identified spirit from the area for 5 AP. It would work by automatically moving the spirit a number of sqaures in a random direction (east, west, northwest etc). The power of the skill would be dependant on the level of the Shaman using it - the number of sqaures the spirit is moved will be equal to the level of the Shaman. For example, a level 15 Shaman with this skill would be able to use the skill on a spirit in the same area and send it 15 squares in a random direction. I feel this skill would do a great deal to make things more interesting for spirit players.
I think generally that the natives should have a greater degree of power over spiritual things than the outsiders (although they would have different advantages) --[[User:Zeff|Zeff]] 18:01, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:Indeed mystery commenter, I must admit though that I like the idea of using the Shaman's level to determine how many squares to send the spirit. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 20:26, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:Very good. Displacement depends on the shaman's level while the chance of success (assuming success isn't guaranteed) is static (around 40%, perhaps, with a 2 AP use cost) or dependent on the distances to the two parties' home camps (see my comment above) if that's feasable. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 22:44, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Isn't the repulsion of spirits against the Free Lunch principle? If a spirit player donated to be exempt from the action limit(though this can be done with an action limit), they could have a team of shamen pursue their spirit character to move them without using any of the spirit's AP. Even if movement is random they would find opportunities to scare frequently enough.--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 23:03, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
:Wouldn't that evoke the "curse" upon them for working together? At any rate I like the idea of being able to stick it to the spirits. Try one night in the York medical hut and you'll see what I mean. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 00:42, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've been tormented by ghosts and I think that we need to capture them with cameras, forcing them to revive instead of letting them wander back into town.--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 02:33, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Identification of strangers===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Ability|
suggest_scope=Identification of strangers|
suggest_description=As a native, I would like an "Identify an outsider" button when standing on the same square as one or more outsiders I can't recognize. (Outsiders would have the same thing for natives, naturally.) It's unrealistic that the best ways to identify people are to attack them or give them gold. It's also bothersome; gold coins are hard to find in the wilderness, and a cheapskate may attack a stranger only to regret the attack upon discovering that their target was a peaceful person. If you're the sort of player who likes to attack every stranger you meet, that's fine. However, many people do discriminate between strangers, and it shouldn't be unduly hard for them to simply figure out who someone is.

Identification would cost 1 AP. Flavor text could be something like
:You examine an outsider until you're able to tell them apart from all the others. They are {{profile|6|Leaky Bocks}}.

I estimate that this change will have the following effects:
# Identification before an attack will be easier and thus more attractive to moderately peaceful players, resulting in less "gratuitous cross-class violence" (as [[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] [[Talk:Identify_Friend_or_Foe|put it]]) at the hands of players who wish to avoid it.
# [[Identify Friend or Foe]] [[:Category:IFF supporter|supporters]] will no longer be subject to the current "peace tax".
# Non-participants in the IFF initiative will neither receive gold from curious players nor see who has identified them. However, after they are identified they may still be given gold or even spoken to (which I prefer from a roleplaying perspective) if cheaper identification makes people more willing to interact with those they identify. I know I'd rather spend 1.5 AP to identify someone and speak to them than 1 AP and a coin to merely identify them.

Since it's already possible to identify a stranger in ways that help them (by giving gold) or hurt them (by attacking), why shouldn't there be a more direct middle path?|
suggest_time=06:18, 28 July 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Elembis|Elembis]]|
suggest_comments=

I'm looking for a flaw in the reasoning here, but I can't find one. I support this. 18:40, 31 July 2006. [[User:Black Joe|Black Joe]]
* The only flaw I can see is already in the game. How do you figure out who someone is, just by giving them a gold coin or attacking them. *slash* Oh, scuse me a second while I check the back of your jacket for a name tag. Same sort of thing applies to staring at someone and figuring out what their name is. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 00:40, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
** "I'd like to stare at someone long enough to figure out what they look like and what they're wearing and carrying." I support this. For convenience, the game has already conflated face-recognition with user-profile. There doesn't exist an in-between level: either you know all their skills and their profile description, or you aren't able to target them at all. We could eventually migrate toward a solution (and perhaps introduce new skills and actions, such as Disguise that would conceal your skillset and kill stats). But in the meantime it would be nice to have the suggested convenience. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 21:05, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Drowning===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics|
suggest_scope=Environment|
suggest_description=Perhaps there should be some rules for drowning? Many players in Shartak (including my character, Zeff) like to camp/sleep in the water. I feel there should be a risk of drowning when a player spends a long period of time in deep water - shallow water would not apply. Perhaps something like this - If a player spends over 2 hours in the water "drowning damage" comes into effect (regardless of whether or not the player has the swimming skill) and every futher hour 10 damage is dealt to the player - either "drowning damage" or instant drowning after 3 hours - with a message "you have drowned".
Another additional possibility is have the character drift in the water - especially if they go into deep water - I like the idea of leaving a character in the water when you log out, and when you log back in they are washed up on another part of the island with most of their hit points missing. Although that might be a bit complicated to do...|
suggest_time=22:10, 1 August 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Zeff|Zeff]]|
suggest_comments=

* Nice. Drifting could be done, although it may make things complicated if you drift too quickly. I certainly don't think you'd move very far in a few hours otherwise it would be far too easy to lose sight of the giant squid you were attacking (for example). There would probably have to be some kind of data in the map that says where you drift to from that square, even if the drifting changes slightly. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 22:39, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
* Sounds like a good idea. Also, driftwood could possibly be incorporated into this, perhaps giving a lower chance of drowning, lower drowning damage, or maybe making the player drift further. -[[User:Peg-Hand Grimm|Peg-Hand Grimm]]

}}

===Pigeon postal service===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=improvement|
suggest_scope=Outsiders (I imagine a different version for Natives|
suggest_description=Right now I have encountered difficulties whenever I try to contact someone in game. There is (currently) no way right now of contacting people in game without finding them. To improve on that, I thought there should be a sort of postal service. The idea is simple. You go to a post office to do one of three things 1) buy a pigeon so you can write a letter from anywhere and send it to the post office (at a cost of 2 GC) 2) write a letter at the post office for posting (at a cost of 1 GC) 3) receive mail (at a cost of 0 GC). To prevent harassment of players you can even instruct the postal staff to burn any letters from ignoramus people (you must tell them before hand otherwise they will burn everything).

*''The postal staff has burned 3 letters from unwanted peoples since your last visit.''
*''You buy a pigeon at the cost of 2 GC. It looks anxious to be on its way home again.''
*''The post woman takes your letter and smiles knowingly.''

The idea may need some tweaking but this is just a suggestion on how to create in game messages.
|
suggest_time=17:06, 18 August 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=


Sounds like an interesting idea. The only real problem that might happen is that if you've off on long journeys, you may not have the time to stop into a town and check your mail. Perhaps the pigeons could also fly to you, where ever you may be, and give you the letter? --[[User:Che|Che]] 22:24, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Could you buy local pigeons and deliver them to another town for sale at a higher price?--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 02:25, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Since pigeons can only return to one place I imagine that foreign post offices would pay a premium for pigeons that can go to other cities. For example, a pigeon bought at York and will return to York is only 2 GC, but a pigeon bought at York that will return to Derby will cost 10 GC or more because you can't raise pigeons to fly to Derby in York.


}}

===Climbable Trees and high areas===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics and Skill|
suggest_scope=Environment|
suggest_description=This is more like two suggestions bundled into one, but they are closely related. I think climbable trees (areas of jungle) would be a great addition to the game. With the use of a climbing skill (perhaps easier to learn for natives) players can "climb" into the jungle canopy (for 5AP) providing the jungle is heavy (dark green and above). This would provide an excellent way to "hide" from other players and give another bonus which I will get back to. If a player chops jungle where a player is hiding above them, that player falls to the ground for a medium amount of damage. Other players would have a chance of spotting people hiding above them, each time they move to a different jungle area (50% and 100% if you use search in the area - a message "you spot *name* hiding in the canopy above you"). Also players will be able to jump from tree to tree for 2AP. Now, onto the "other bonus" mentioned earlier - this bonus also effects areas such as the mountain and the crows nest at the shipwreck giving "high areas" more of a tactical use. These areas should allow you to spot people (outsiders, pirates and natives) in the distance. When you are in one of these areas you would be able to "see" the number of people to the north, east, south and west - this will include areas such as north-east and south-west as "north" will mean a general cone shape north of the player. For example in the crows nest at the shipwreck, there will be a button "lookout" which would display the following text-
"You scan the horizons -
North - You see 1 native nearby.
East - You see 6 pirates nearby. You see 3 pirates in the distance.
South - You see 12 pirates nearby. You see 4 pirates and 2 outsiders in the distance.
West - You see 7 pirates nearby. You see 2 pirates and 4 natives in the distance."
Of course if you did this on the mountain, you wouldn't be able to see through solid rock.
The sight range would be perhaps 20 squares, anything over 10 squares is defined as distance. If this suggestion is implemented it will I feel it would add a whole new level to gameplay (literally!) as well as possibilities for watch-towers, and long-range rifle/blowpipe sniping!
|
suggest_time=11:49, 21 August 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Zeff|Zeff]]|
suggest_comments=

I had thought of climbable trees, but hadn't planned on people being able to move around whilst in the tree. The biggest problem with letting you see further is that (a) it'd require more processing to handle the extra 24+ map areas, (b) Displaying the map would be quite tricky due to the sizes of squares required to be able to hold text and icons. I had envisaged something like "You climb a tree. [down]" as the stuff on the right, no other actions except down. The left hand side would be a map area about the same size as currently, but where each block was replaced with a 3x3 area. This would give you the ability to see terrain from 7 blocks all around (15x15 grid). --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 00:52, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

To be honest, I wasn't thinking of actually showing the areas you can see, I was thinking along the lines a purely text feature, that would operate in a similar way to "search". There would be a button that would "list" each direction (N,E,S,W) and the players you could see in those areas. Actually displaying more sqaures on screen sounds pretty complicated... --[[User:Zeff|Zeff]] 19:58, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
:The problem with just text is not everyone is going to be directly north or west or south or east of you, most of the time they will be at strange angles. Simon's idea of a 15x15 grid when you climb a tree is a good one, if it is able to be done. Here's the idea I got while reading this suggestion: firstly, new item-telescope (explorers would start with one, they would be occassionally found in outsider towns. natives would have no access, like gps). Going atop a tree or crow's nest or climbing on top of ruins would give you four buttons: look north, look west, look south, look east-- but only if you have a telescope. Each would cost 5 or 10 AP (it would take a long time to throughly search with the horizon with your telescope.) You would be shown something like [http://www.itechsc.com/misc/shartak/ubermap/closeup.php?cx=-70648&cy=26343&dn=1&zn=1 this map] (but not as big), it would display the area north of your immediate area if you chose 'look north', south of yoru area if you chose 'look south, etc, and it would tell you where others are.
:- [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 23:18, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Zeff, You are on the right track with your hiding suggestion I think, but it shouldnt be atop trees. People should have an ability to hide in the jungle, and an on-ground hiding skill has been suggested before. I still think it is a good idea. Here is one version of the idea, suggested by Armadox on the forum:
<<Armadox_The_Butcher wrote: What about a skill that allows you to use your last 10 ap to hide in the foilage? It marks you off the map, like being a spirit. Spirits can still see you, and anyone searching the area can uncover you. but it'll keep your hide safer untill you log back on?>>
<<Arminius wrote: This is a good idea, but how about instead of having to search, someone who steps onto the same square automatically discovers you? But people wouldnt be able to see you from other squares like they can now. Currently if you are standing on any of the 25 squares in someone's line of sight, they can see you, but if you were to be hidden they wouldnt be able to unless they are on your square. This could serve as an ambushing skill as well as a hiding skill. By ambushing I mean hiding and then waiting till someone comes to a square near you to rest, and naturally they wouldnt know youre there, then you emerge to kill the poor sucker>>
<<Crowjane wrote: sounds generally nice, but what if everyone has it. I foresee no ambushing but endless travels without any human contact...>>
<<Tycho44 wrote: I like the idea of having an extremely expensive Hide Skill (12AP-30AP to use?) that only works to cloak you from those not in your square. By hiding, you would prevent animals and players from seeing and pursuing you unless they actually stumbled into your square (Trackers could use Tracking Skill). When the cost of hiding is high, many players will choose to step 5 or 15 spaces further back into the wilderness instead, so the game impact would be relatively mild. Also, hiding could require Jungle d5 or higher to use, just like concealed huts and trees. That would prevent ambushes from inside the town.>> ([http://shartak.forumsplace.com/message-152-15.html From here]).
 - [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 23:18, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Importance of the Islands of Shartak===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Improvement|
suggest_scope=Environment|
suggest_description=The many Islands of Shartak have been the source of some of the most heated conflicts seen to date; however, such islands truly offer nothing more then a secluded patch of beach and jungle. To make these Island more desirable, I think new or stronger animals should be confined to these Islands, or possibly an implementation of the "New Strategic Location on Island" suggestion. When Darwin visited the Galapagos Islands, he noticed that the species he found evolved separately from creatures on the mainland. The same should be true with Shartak.|
suggest_time=16:00, 23 August 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Gandhi|Gandhi]]|
suggest_comments=

Possible animals:
*Gorillas - stronger than a monkey, hit harder
*Rhinos - less HP than elephants, but more aggressive and hit harder
Or Mythical/Exotic Creatures:
*Ogopogo - like the Squid, but confined specifically to the waters around the Island; could possibly give special power/stat increase when successfully killed
*Dragon - Travels between all Islands; hits extremely hard, but flies to adjacent squares after hits; impossible to heal.
*Big foot - from adjacent squares, it is seen as "An Outsider" but once on the same square, he appears as Big Foot. Same stats as outsider, with more HP. [[User:Gandhi|Gandhi]] 16:00, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

}}

Suggestions:Items

2006-06-27T00:40:36Z

Arminius: /*Berries to Increase AP */

{{Suggestions header|page_type=Items}}

== Items ==

=== Absinth ===
Could have a very low chance of being found, and would display as "Bottle of absinth" (in addition to the existing "Bottle of beer" and "Bottle of water"). Would result in a distortion of game display, showing some kind of living beings (native, outsiders or animals) as another kind (a native could be displayed as an outsider or an animal), causing the intoxicated character to attack people he wouldn't have attacked otherwise, or trying to role-play with an angry elephant. --[[User:Mad Robert|Mad Robert]] 03:53, 19 March 2006 (GMT)
*No reason to drink it then? --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 23:37, 19 March 2006 (GMT)
**I'm sure someone would drink it anyway. Could bring back some HP, of course... --[[User:Mad Robert|Mad Robert]] 23:50, 19 March 2006 (GMT)
*The whole "distortion of game display" thing sounds too complicated. If it's a powerful enough hallucinogen, it could work as a teleporter to a random nearby location ("As the effects of the absinthe wear off, you realize that you have moved to a different part of the jungle."). But I think it'd be better theme-wise to introduce a plant native to the island with such an effect; also, these "strange herbs" would give outsiders something to confuse healing herbs with. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 13:24, 21 May 2006 (BST)
----

=== Spear ===
It could be the native warriors main weapon, give it a base damage of 3, same to hit as machete but it wouldn't cut through jungle -- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 11:02, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
*A spear for stabbing or a spear for throwing (i.e single use) ? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:49, 25 February 2006 (GMT)
**I like the idea of a spear for stabbing. We have enough single use weapons in the game, already. What would make it so different from a blowgun, if it is throwable? Which brings up another question: With a weapon that deals 3 damage and is reusable, who will bother with a blowgun?--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 06:54, 29 March 2006 (BST)
*The machete is already better than the blowpipe if you've got the three melee upgrades, and the spear would represent a third melee weapon warriors like me would need to carry around (along with a knife for writing and a machete for chopping). I don't see a point, unless it's to compete with the heavy sword, in which case I'd recommend that the heavy sword be toned down. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 13:32, 21 May 2006 (BST)
----

=== Head-shrinking powder ===
This could be either a melee or area weapon used by natives.

''Comments''
*What are the effects of it? Causes X HP of damage? Loss of AP? Loss of XP? Instant death? - [[User:Snarf|Snarf]]
**Could be used on a body to create a totem of some sort. This can then be placed in a square. People from the same village or settlement as the now shrunken head take twice as many AP to move through because of fear. Disintergrates after x number of people have moved through the square. {{unsigned|Hyper tyger|17:18, March 18, 2006 (BST) }}
----

=== Meat ===
Heals 2 HP. Used by both outsiders and tribals. It appears in your inventory when you kill a beastie. [[User:Bungalow Bill|Bungalow Bill]]

''Comments''
*But you can only carry 200 pounds of meat back to your wagon. <nowiki></oregontrail></nowiki> --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:15, 13 February 2006 (GMT)
*Or you have to cook it, taking one AP and possibly a fire-lighting skill (who wants to eat raw monkey?).[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 20:12, 20 February 2006 (GMT)
**Maybe you don't have to cook it but you get less HP and possibly lose HP to food poisoning. [DarkFerret]
*Or, to make it more, hm, tribal, you could need to bring it back to specific places in the village where it could be (instantaneously) cooked and used as a replenished "health pool" any player could use. You would still have the occasional berries to eat in the forest, but real meal would occure at a settlement. It would also provide a more efficient healing system (as currently, you roughly get to spend 50 AP to recover 4 or 5 HP, which makes death the most efficient way to restore your HP). -- Leaf
**''There is a large pot of stew cooking, it appears to be half full.''
***''You eat some and feel better. After a few spoonfuls you find your friend's pocket watch.'' [DarkFerret]
**Make it 1 HP per kg of meat (basing carcass size loosely on the animal's starting HP), and make each HP of carried meat fill 1 inventory space (and pretend preservation isn't a problem). Put an ever-boiling pot in each village (in a boring oudoor place; we could use more points of interest), and give people experience points whenever they contribute meat to any pot (more meat gives you more XP, and putting meat in the pot of your home village gives you extra (double?) XP). Omnipresent spices and palate differences could make food at Outsider villages inedible for Natives, and vice-versa. (Pirates ought to be able to eat from any pot, but for half the health benefit. Maybe they should even be able to eat meat raw.) Any non-meat added to the pot would simply disappear (and poison from poison berries would be broken up by the heat). This system would (1) encourage community, (2) increase realism (there's currently no realistic reason for a non-warrior to kill a non-threatening animal), and (3) provide another theme-fitting non-combat XP path. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)
***As per Elembis. For example, a meat item could be eaten raw for 1HP per 1 inventory space, or returned to a cooking pot (imho only in native camps...). Drinking from a cooking pot could restore 2HP, until "The pot is currently empty". Non-meat items could not be added to the cooking pot -- the game menu functionality would be limited by the user interface (for example, Add Meat to Cooking Pot doesn't appear or doesn't work until you have meat in inventory, and adds meat to the cooking pot when clicked). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 21:37, 16 June 2006 (BST)
***We should keep in mind that eating from a pot should heal faster than searching for and applying herbs and kits, or else players in need of healing won't bother. (6 searches per FAK/herb means 7 AP per 5/10 HP healed for non-scavengers, so 2 HP per bowl of food should be fine.) Also, I think that pots should treat pirates like normal outsiders, that all camps should have pots (since outsiders are surely capable of cooking meat), that the item should be "piece of meat", that the description for a square with a pot should read something like "There is a fire here with a large pot over it.", and that the button should read "Add Meat to Pot" (or perhaps that feature should just be linked to the "meat" button in the inventory list). — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 22:20, 16 June 2006 (BST)

----

=== Radio beacon/receiver ===
A radio beacon/receiver for outsiders to pinpoint specific locations of interest.

''Comments''
*What's wrong with using the GPS co-ordinates of a specific location? - [[User:Snarf|Snarf]]
*Perhaps a way to have GPS waypoints or markers IN one own's GPS? --[[User:Wcervantes|Wcervantes]] 19:39, 16 February 2006 (GMT)
----

=== Holy Scriptures ===
Used to convert Natives into Ousiders. Requires "Religious Devotion". Most likely found around Outsider settlements --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
*Nobody wants to have a class change againt their will. -Grigoriy
*Noone wants to die against their will either, but it does happen ;-) Might be irritating, but also might be quite interesting. It would have to be possible both ways of course, natives to outsiders and outsiders to natives. Perhaps the outsiders can convert natives to outsiders with holy scriptures using the religious devotion skill and natives can convert outsiders to natives with a bottle of beer using the seduction skill! ;-) --[[User:Murk|Murk]] 12:28, 4 March 2006 (GMT)
*Class conversion gets awfully mucky, when you consider available skills. I would say that a better idea would be for use of Holy Scriptures on a native to prompt the natives with an invitation to change sides--without changing class. This would make them see outsiders by name, make natives anonymous, and cause them to show up on the map as "1 convert" to outsiders (as opposed to "1 native") and as "1 traitor" to natives. Converting back would require a shaman with an equivalent skill (which can, of course, offer outsiders an opportunity to be accepted into native communities).
:Note, though, that I have no idea how difficult that would be to write in, given the existing code.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:01, 29 March 2006 (BST)
*Such a feature would allow anyone to change class bath and forth at will by just using another of their characters of the appropriate class to effect the conversion, which makes classes virtually pointless.
*Class conversion sounds bad. Religion might be interesting, but this seems like a messy and unpleasant way to include it. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)
----

=== GPS Unit (Redesign) ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Item, modification|
suggest_scope=GPS unit|
suggest_description=This is a suggestion to change the gps unit into an object that presumably fits better with the game setting. We currently have no other modern item available for use (anachronism - VOCABULARY WORD!). Perhaps we should use a sextant? And rather than reveal the position all of the time, it requires a 1 AP use in non-dense, non-enclosed area.|
suggest_time=21:48, 23 February 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

* Yes, GPS units are indeed ''malapropos'' (another vocabulary word :D)--[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 00:33, 27 February 2006 (GMT)
* Y'know, the "GPS Unit" item has stuck out like a sore thumb to me too. I'd be very much in favor of a lower-tech replacement, if only because it makes the game more timeless. But what tools ''did'' explorers of earlier eras use to measure latitude and longitude while traveling by land, anyway? And how accurate were they? Alternatively phrased: if you were trapped on a desert island without a GPS Unit, how would you estimate where you were? Lint's suggestion for a lower-tech replacement item, requiring AP and suitable terrain conditions for proper use, appeals to me. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:03, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
* I've done some research into this and as Lint said, a sextant is what was used. Unfortunately though, a sextant doesn't do both longitude and latitude very quickly, you need charts/tables and several hours. See http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/longitude/secrets.html for info. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 14:55, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
** Ahh; yeah, I had just been checking out http://www.lewis-clark.org/content/content-article.asp?ArticleID=1268 myself. If I'm reading it right, it sounds like the bulk of the hours of calculation involved were due to being at sea and having to figure out what time zone you're in first as part of the equation. (Both pages mention a "chronometer" which was finally invented to try to solve that problem.) On land, though -- and especially on an island of Shartak's size -- you pretty much know where you are, and you're not likely to be crossing time zones. A quote from the Lewis & Clark page: "If time can be fixed along any meridian of longitude, then longitudinal distance can be determined by comparing time at that meridian with local time, usually based on the point at which the sun reaches its zenith." So. I wonder if we could fudge a bit with this sextant business by assuming that everyone on the island is able to determine what time it is on Shartak -- after all, we do get timestamped event messages! ;) -- and therefore we can apply that bit of knowledge to help determine longitude, overcoming the sextant's weakness. That could even go in the FAQ. I'm not really all that scientifically inclined, so please do feel welcome to correct me if if my thoughts are way off base. In closing, I still like Lint's ideas about making it cost AP and require suitable terrain. The former would represent the investment of time in setting up the equipment and doing the calculations. The latter would give players a reason to clear a square of jungle. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 16:07, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
*** That all sounds good. I think there is a skill in there as well - I don't suppose a sextant is as accurate as GPS, so why not have it not produce the same result all of the time? Someone with the "Skillful Sextant Supervisor" skill gets more accurate results. --[[User:Dr. J|Dr. J]] 16:17, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
** The AP cost of a sextant or other device could easily be added to the GPS unit by requiring that you 'use gps' to get the reading rather than it being on all the time. Whilst redesigning the GPS unit, how about thinking of something for natives to find out where they are - obviously not as accurate as a sextant, but something to guide them around or to specific locations. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 16:30, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
*** Just consider it a redesigned sextant that some mythical character dropped around the island and call it "Professor Inglewood's Speedy Sextant And Nano Tables" or some other such nonesense and leave it working the same, just with a different name. As for natives, maybe they could see/read totems at different points in the jungle, indicating where resources/towns are. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 17:06, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
***Natives divine their position with animal feces. It can be a new skill ;) Actually, in all seriousness, perhaps something involving animal bones? It would need to be something mystical, as there just isn't a more primitive method than the sextant. That way, it sort of balances; you use animal bone dice for a few minutes to divine your position accurately, and outsiders sit dow nand use a sextant.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:08, 29 March 2006 (BST)
***I'm currently of the opinion that the Natives don't need a version of the GPS. It helps a little with the mapping projects and location scripts. But my Shaman was just as lost than my gps-using Settler when I was traipsing through the Jungle. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:10, 30 March 2006 (BST)
****So natives need a sensing skill that gives them direction and distance to the nearest village. Natives seem to flail at the beginning compared to outsiders: every outsider counterpart item/skill is stronger (especially gps, blowpipe vs rifle, and the lack of bottled water). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 05:43, 10 May 2006 (BST)
*****How about giving Natives a 'always on' ability (like the GPS is now). They have been born and raised here, they _always_ know where they are (or perhaps it should be modified so that they always know where they are in relation to their village - ie, (201N, 34E of Wiksik). Make the GPS a sextant and require an AP to take a reading and perform the calculations. I would go so far as to suggest that it be tied to the Cartography skill or possibly an additional skill in the Cartography tree.[[User:Anothertwilight|Anothertwilight]] 06:20, 10 May 2006 (BST)
******I like this idea as well as Frisco's. Rename the GPS, keep its 0 AP use cost, and give all Natives the ability to "Sense Position" for 1 AP and be told the direction and rough distance of the nearest village. ("After several minutes of attentive communion with the spirits, you sense that Raktam is about a day's journey north of here.") Maybe even take the GPS away; the Natives should know their way around better than the Outsiders. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)

}}

=== Refillable containers ===
Does it really make sense that after drinking something, you automatically discard the container it had been in? I propose a modification to the inventory system so bottles/gourds work similar to rifles and blowguns--they can be refilled if they are empty. Obviously, you can't just carry around spare water like you can ammo, so to refill a water container, you have to be in water. This would clearly make areas near water more popular, which I don't think is a bad thing, or without precedent. Furthermore, this could lead to new and interesting directions, such as other liquids that could be carried around, causing various effects. Off the top of my head:
* drinking too much "ocean" water will make you sick (reducing your hit % temporarily)
* a "create mysterious serum" skill the shaman/scientist can eventually learn that (along with certain ingredients) lets them create a "buff" potion.
* special healing water springs that have double the recuperative effect
This would also address one of the concerns I've had regarding healing skills. To my knowledge, there is no place in Shartak where you are more likely to consistantly find healing kits/herbs, etc. its all fairly random. By comparision, UD has certain buildings where you can only find certain items (i.e. hospitals = first aid kits). IMO, its currently too difficult/AP consuming to heal. Without a way to consistantly find/create healing items, it's not likely there will be "healers" willing to use their hard-to-find healing items on anyone else. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 22:14, 25 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
*Have you found the hut in Dalpok with all the drying herbs hanging up? Says something about a shaman being busy, I seem to have a reasonable success rate at finding healing herbs there. Not sure if there are more around. --[[User:Snarf|Snarf]] 22:17, 25 February 2006 (GMT)
**No, I hadn't noticed such a hut(s), I've assumed they were all pretty much the same. If certain huts are more likely to contain certain items, I've another suggestion--'''label them'''. Any opinion on my primary suggestion of refillable containers? --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 22:31, 25 February 2006 (GMT)
***I can confirm that huts may look identical on the outside, but their inside descriptions can differ significantly. Fortunately, anyone with the right tool can carve a message on a hut's outer walls, such as "Empty Inside" or "Shaman's Hut". --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:24, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
*Refillable containers? Give the user the choice to discard the container? Sure, sounds cool to me. About the water supply: I agree that ocean water (water right off the beach) would be bound to be salty and unpotable in a real-world scenario. According to the [[Locations]] page, there's a river off the south side of the mountain, which would seem to be the only known terrestrial fresh water source on the whole island. Hmm, a thought: If we were to have refillable containers, then might one also expect there to be wells in or around the villages? --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:24, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
**There is at least one more (much shorter) river near Derby. I'll bet there is a lake or two somewhere as well. Wells are probably not a bad idea. --[[User:Dr. J|Dr. J]] 15:05, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
***According to the [http://www.itechsc.com/misc/shartak/ubermap/ uber map] there are three lakes (two are close to each other) in addition to the river, and a pond by Durham. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)
----

=== Remove uber sword of doom(aka heavy sword) ===
I don't even have a heavy sword yet but I can already tell(from the item page) that it makes a lot of things utterly useless.Just for reference the heavy sword is(when maxed attack skills) 45% hit, 5dam= '''2.25dam/ap'''. What does it make useless, well let me begin. 

1.Rifle skills- reason: the ap you spent getting the xp for those skills was better used searching for a heavy sword. 

2.Rifle- reason: the dam/ap for the rifle is lower than a the heavy sword '''before''' factoring in the search for ammo part. The math: the rifle is 5 dam,60% hit,1.5 ap/shot( 3ap per 2 shots i think)= (5*.6)/1.5 =3/1.5 = '''2ap/dam NOT FACTORING IN SEARCHING FOR AMMO'''.

3. The blowpipe- reason: the blowpipe sucks as it is, the machete makes it pointless(unless they actually poison) and the heavy sword just makes it absolute garbage(even if they poisoned). The math: 4 dam, 20% hit, 2ap/shot(assuming you have to reload after every shot i don't use the blowpipe so I wouldn't know)= (4*.2)/2=.8/2= '''.4 dam/ap NOT FACTORING IN SEARCHING FOR AMMO'''.

Conclusion- I realize there are problems with the blowpipe but as far as I can tell with the rifle there are none. The knowledge of there even being a heavy sword is enough to discourage those that would take rifles training as a skill. The sword is just too powerful to balance in game as the only way to balance it would be to add another item that is just as crazy powerful, making it rare does nothing to the balance as people can still find it and it makes those few ,whom the RNG loves, ridiculosly overpowered. If the RNG loves somebody they should get multipul hits in a row not the ability to destroy everybody who can't/doesn't want to waste the ap to gain that ability. And after all just because it is rare doesn't mean we all can't find it, I know eventually we would all find one and there would be no variaty whatsoever in battle. Take urban dead for example they balanced the shotguns,pistols, and fireaxe evenly so there is no superior choice its about how you want to play. With the heavy sword it makes all other items pale in comparison BEFORE search rates are keyed into calculations, in urban dead it is AFTER that they are about even. This suggestion to remove something doesn't punish anybody because as of right now we do not know where to find the heavy sword, the only ones were stumbled across randomly so nobody would really have "wasted" the ap to find it(unless they have but I know after reading a bit I didn't for the fun reducing factor everybody having one would bring). Also don't bring up things about how I don't know how it works ingame because unless it takes 6ap to attack the math shows it is unbalanced. Please Simon fix this unbalanced weapon by removing it, not by making everything else oh so much better. ANybody who is with me sign in the comments please.

'''Comments'''

*The math looks sound. And I agree that having everyone run around with Heavy Swords would make for a plain game. However, I don't see why it needs to be removed completely. Is there anything we can do to the sword mechanics to make it more even with the existing weapons? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:04, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
*I agree. The machete with maxed out melee skils is arguably better than any other weapon, and the heavy sword makes that look like a butter knife. Yank it or make it so rare it would be like winning the lottery twice. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 01:49, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
*I disagree with some of the logic in this argument. If the heavy sword were a common weapon, then I could understand the concern; however, the "über sword of doom" is hardly of such availability. As far as I know, only one player has the sword. Having rare items like it add a new dimension to the game - a sort of treasure hunting aspect. I would even propose that even more superior weapons are "hidden" around the island, possibly protected by superior animals. --[[User:Gandhi|Gandhi]] 00:34, 22 March 2006 (GMT)
** One player on the [[Game design]] page has commented on how he has acquired 3 Heavy Swords. Don't get me wrong, some weapons should be better than others to allow for diversity (that's why there's knives, daggers, and whatnot). However, as it stands, the Heavy Sword to our knowledge is the single best weapon available. Everyone is going to be running around with it and if you don't have one, you won't be able to compete. It'd be like playing Rock-Paper-Scissors-Nuclear Bomb and Nuclear Bomb always wins. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 00:52, 22 March 2006 (GMT)
*Are these even real? I mean, how many people claim to have gotten them? one? This almost looks like a pretty funny joke. Also, Simon has stayed silent on this, implying some sort of uber sword conspiracy, so perhaps we shouldn't rock the boat. (Cue up suspenseful music) -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 06:02, 22 March 2006 (GMT)
**i have 3 swords ,but i'm reading it's really rare. I feel really lucky :). Oh , and i think it's too powerful compared to other weapons. Maybe there must be other rare ranged weapons (like some 6 or 7 o 8 damage rifle) or something like this --[[User:JonesDye|JonesDye]] 09:38, 27 March 2006 (BST)
**I thought I'd made them fairly rare (after the initial burst of finding them) but I think I made them too rare perhaps. There are still only 4 people with them, looks like the same 4 who had them originally. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 00:01, 8 April 2006 (BST)
**Do you even have one Simon? --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 00:17, 8 April 2006 (BST)
**Nope. No heavy sword for any of my characters. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:18, 8 April 2006 (BST)
*The original poster is correct about rifles/blowpipes being too weak. The rifle's AP/damage ratio is actually much lower than even the machete's, let alone the mysterious heavy sword. The rifle's accuracy is its edge, but 60% maximum accuracy really isn't *that* high or that much of an advantage over the 45% machete accuracy. The introduction of two new skills to the firearms skill tree, "Marksmanship" and "Expert Marksmanship", each of which would add 10 or 15% to rifle/blowpipe accuracy, would help to solve this problem I would say (I dont know if anything like this has been proposed before). Dont remove the heavy sword, just make rifles more powerful. -[[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 01:29, 8 April 2006 (BST)
* With the addition of the forgotten blowpipe skills, that should help the blowpipe ratio, and I'd say ignore the heavy sword since it seems so rare that you'll be lucky to get one unless someone trades one in for some essential supplies. Not sure about 80% accuracy with either of the ranged weapons - would those skills be available to all or just as an extension to firearms/blowpipe training? What happens to the blowpipe damage if the poisoning suggestion is implemented and the poison effect is added that takes away 1-5 HP over the next 5 AP unless you use serum or first aid kit (damage numbers not definite, just a rough figure)? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:18, 8 April 2006 (BST)
**I was thinking that the new skill(s) would be part of the ranged weapon skill tree (how can one be a marksman if he does not have firearms training). I like the idea of making a ranged skill available to all though. A maximum accuracy of 20% for all non-soldier/warrior characters seems very low. Maybe the first skill in the tree should be available to all, but the next 2 or 3 skills only for soldiers/warriors? Just an idea. -[[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 02:50, 12 April 2006 (BST)
* I think adding one skills for rifle and one for blowpipe is really cool. Marksmanship is a nice name , but not to add accuracy, but to add +2 to damage. Poisoning for blowpipe go well too. Oh, and one of my swords is gone ç__ç. And about trading, i tried to trade one of them , but the trader didn't have 49 gold coins..and i think you can add some powerful and rare rifle--[[User:JonesDye|JonesDye]] 08:42, 10 April 2006 (BST)
* Currently the rifle (w/both skills) gets only 0.75 damage/AP total (searching, loading, and shooting) based on my calculation, and 3 damage/AP in combat (only shooting). The machete (w/all three skills) gets 1.35 damage/AP and obviously requires no searching or loading. I think that new skill(s) for the rifle/blowpipe to get their damage/AP ratio closer to (but not equal to or past) the 1.35 machete ratio would be the best way to go. If a new skill or two increases ranged damage by 2 as JonesDye suggested, the result would be a ratio of 1.05 total damage/AP, and 4.2 damage/AP in combat. (If skills are added to increase maximum accuracy to 80%, the result would be 1 total damage/AP and 4 damage/AP in combat.) This, I think, would be a better balance. Ranged weapons should be superior to the machete in combat, and they are, but currently they are only 2.2 times better (3 vs. 1.35). The proposed new combat ratio of ~4 damage/AP would be three times better than the machete in combat, although still inferior in total damage/AP ratio. (Note that the combat ratios mentioned above are exact, but the total damage/AP ratios are not exact because I do not know the % chance to find ammunition. The total damage/AP numbers used above assume that a total of 5 bullets can be found in 10 searches on average, which may be a liberal estimate but seemed accurate based on my experience.) -[[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 02:50, 12 April 2006 (BST)
**Still, 3 damage per AP isn't that bad. You can track someone down, kill someone outright in ~25 AP with a rack of rifles, and run far away -- whereas a machete might take 60 AP to cause ~81 damage. The blowpipe needs a lot of help: you can only carry half as many loaded pipes, and so you have to waste time in combat reloading. I believe that blowdart poison could cause another 1 dmg/turn for 4 turns (8 damage total if they don't heal) and it still wouldn't be overpowered. 20% to hit is totally useless, though. I would suggest something like a 20% -> 35% marksman upgrade for all classes, then 35% -> 50% -> 65% for soldier/warrior. Unless a non-soldier can attain a 35% or 40% to-hit rate with a rifle (higher with a blowpipe), the weapon serves absolutely no purpose -- it is just a glorified 1/3-gem. And if the heavy sword has the same break rate as other blades in the game, then there is no problem with a 1/3000 find rate or whatever. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 05:59, 10 May 2006 (BST)
*As long as the heavy sword is extremely rare and quite powerful, why not replace it with a single "elephant sword", or something with a similarly grand title. There would only be one on the island (or one per village: "The Elephant Sword of York", etc.), its carrier would not be able to drop it (or, if dropped, it would be given to the next player revived by that village's shaman), players would get a special message upon being attacked by it, and it would change possession to the player who would kill its carrier. Also, its carrier should get a movement penalty so they'll be easier to catch. (And perhaps every person should have a sixth sense to divine the location of their village's Elephant Sword.) In short, if the sword is going to be rare, ''make it special''. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)
----

=== Ranged weapons ===

I never used a rifle, but the blowpipe feels quite useless at the moment indeed (unless it poisons). I was wondering if a ranged aspect could be added to those weapons to make up for their poor hp/ap ratio and their ammo requirement (and their lack of poison?). In practice, that would mean that once the rifle (or the blowpipe (I wonder if it poisons)) is selected from the attack drop-down menu, the target drop-down menu would include the entities from the surrounding squares. That would allow for some slightly safer attacks, especially in difficult terrain, or for around four minutes of triumph for having attacked someone from the distance (and poisonned him?), before being machetted to death anyway. That is: not much, but the satisfying feeling to have used a special weapon, with its own pros. -- Leaf
* Ranged weapon skills for warriors to boost the blowpipe are in the pipeline. Seems I missed a section from my notes when adding skills. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 10:12, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
* Sweet --[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 06:34, 14 March 2006 (GMT)
**A bit of poison on that blowdart (1 hp dmg per move for 4 turns e.g.) would be nice. The current blowpipe is totally hopeless as a weapon, even for warriors. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:22, 20 May 2006 (BST)
:* ''bump'' - like the poison added the other day then. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 12:44, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
::* Yep, Blowpipe is not longer useless. If you wanted to add a limited benefit of range, you could have the Blowpipe and the Rifle deal damage to Animals as a ranged effect. In other words, the elephant couldn't trample you because you're hiding in the Jungle with your ranged weapon (still in same square). In fact that might make more sense than (or in addition to) a 6 damage blowpipe vs NPCs - NPCs don't get to use Reactive Attacks against a Ranged Weapon. (Although perhaps the Huts/Villages are too small to get true Range on the Trader or Shaman...) --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 14:33, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

----

===studded leather & war gear===
both items have the same effect, except one is for outsiders and one is for natives, upon looking at the names, i cant really tell which would be for who, but that doesnt matter.
theese items could act likee flak jackets, but could (possibly) have the chance of inflicting damage upon being hit, as per, a guy with tons of knives on him being punched would probably cut up his assailant's hands. {{unsigned|Richard Rose|04:59, March 29, 2006 (BST)}}

*Hm. I don't like the idea of inflicting damage on the assailant. I think that's a bit of a stretch. I could see outsiders coming over with breastplates and whatnot (a la John Smith, be it the noble stud from ''Pocahontas'' or the weaselly entrapeneur from history). Natives, though, would be unlikely to have that much. Perhaps, though, a wooden, oblong, leaf-shaped shield. Perhaps it would give a small (10%?) chance of blocking a melee attack. Thus, both sides would have a form of protection, but they would be ''different'' forms of protection, serving to distinguish the two sides.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 08:31, 10 April 2006 (BST)
----

===animal wearings===
such as teeth and hide could be added to one's [[inventory]] or slot for extra damage, accuracy, etc.. {{unsigned|Richard Rose|04:59, March 29, 2006 (BST)}}

*Honestly, this just seems silly. Why would I suddenly hurt you more for having a tiger tooth in my pocket?--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 08:32, 10 April 2006 (BST)

:*It would be a psychological effect. A tribesman who believes that the spirit of the tiger is strengthening his arm through the use of a magic talismen will fight harder. {{unsigned|Naomi|19:56, April 10, 2006 (BST)}}

::*I ''still'' think it's a huge stretch.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:08, 11 April 2006 (BST)

:::*Yah, shamanic magic being able to cause or prevent damage is a stretch, tell that to the dozens of spirits farming xp in my hut. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:25, 20 May 2006 (BST)

:::Apparently this has been implemented - I just got a tiger tooth amulet from the pirate trader. He doesn't have any others, alas... *brag* [[User:Ssarl|Ssarl]], 12:19, June 16

----

===Messenger Pigeons===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=New item|
suggest_scope=All outsiders|
suggest_description=Allows Outsiders to send messages over long distances. Just type up the message and enter the recepient's name and the bird flies off.
''You watch your pigeon fly off and hope it doesn't get intercepted.''
 Pigeons must be captured with an unamed skill and may be intercepted with a separate skill.|
suggest_time=22:23, 9 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

*How would you handle said "interception?" Would you be notified of pigeons sent off within a certain number of squares, and offered a chance to stop it? Would it show up as an actual animal that one could kill? I would say that the idea of sending a messenger pigeon along as a new, low-hp NPC with a specific destination is neat, but I don't know how hard it would be on the server.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 08:35, 10 April 2006 (BST)
*Moving an npc pigeon wouldn't be difficult as long as there were only a limited number of them in play at any one time. How would you specify the destination though - pigeons need to know the destination don't they (not sure how homing pigeons work)? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 14:38, 10 April 2006 (BST)
**Mmm. Maybe one would need to specify a GPS coordinate? Actually, I'm fairly certain that birds have been taught to find specific people that they are familiar with. Perhaps once we have a contacts list (do we? If so, I haven't been able to add anyone) we can send it to those listed on it? Then it would be rather like the mobile phone of UD... except that it takes time to travel, and could be killed for EXP by other players :) What kind of limit would you have in mind, by the way? I mean, I can't imagine a whole lot of people using this often enough for it to really be a problem, but as the game grows... You never know.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:12, 11 April 2006 (BST)
**I would say that you would have to have a the person on a contact list before you can send them a messenger pigeon. The pigeon would move like 1 square per 5 mins and would appear as an attackable animal. The limit is that there are only so many pigeons in Shartak. You would have to have a skill to capture one without killing it. This skill could also be used to capture a messenger pigeon without killing it in order to "intercept" the message. Or perhaps tehy are different skills? Pigeons would be reusable. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 01:27, 11 April 2006 (BST)
*Capturing and intercepting pigeons seems quite unrealistic. Instead, maybe you could give each village a communications hut with infinite pigeons, available to people from that village. Pigeons in inventory could be sent up with a message, and after some time they'd appear in their home villages and their messages would be held for their recipients. I like the drum idea better, though. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)

}}

===Drum===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=New item|
suggest_scope=All Natives|
suggest_description=Allows all Natives within a specified area to hear the senders message. Any Outsiders hear random drum beats unless they have the Expert Language skill.
''You hear random drumming in the distance.''
 Requires a drum beating skill to utilize.|
suggest_time=22:35, 9 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

A drum language? Neat. I would make it a native-only skill, though (how difficult would it be for an outsider to learn ''of'' the language, let alone the language itself?), and only one skill. Also, to show the difficulty of true articulation in such a language, it would be good to lower the character limit on drum messages. This way, long messages will be broken up, and will require a bit more AP.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 08:40, 10 April 2006 (BST)

:Awesome. A great idea to help underpowered natives (no bottles of water in native villages, terrible blowpipe, no gps, outnumbered, etc.) and also a cool new rare item. Doesn't appear abusable. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:27, 20 May 2006 (BST)

:I like this idea and think it should be open to Natives only, for the reasons [[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] gave. Also, it stands to reason that Natives should have some kind of communication advantage, being Natives on the island and everything. Messages should have to be extremely short, or else there should be increasing AP costs for longer messages (1 AP per character, perhaps?). Think of Morse code. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)

::I'm thinking that drums could be to natives what GPS units are to outsiders in terms of cost, usefulness, and skill requirements. Here's how it works in my mind:
::#All natives, and outsiders with ''Native Knowledge'', can drum a message for 1 AP per character. Outsiders without ''Native Knowledge'' either (1) have their beats carry a shorter distance or (2) have a 20% chance of breaking their drum. (I prefer the second option, assuming drums would be expensive items. I'd rather have drums be completely off-limits for such outsiders, but I can't think of a realistic reason for them to be unable to bang on a drum.)
::#Only natives, and outsiders with ''Native Knowledge'', can determine the direction of a beat. (Bass noises are the hardest to pinpoint.)
::#Only players on the same side as the drummer, and players on the other side with language skills, can interpret beats, as with all other communication in the game. (Unskilled listeners hear "random drumming" instead of "<garbled message>", since extremely short messages will be quite common and language obfuscation doesn't touch the first letter of a word. ''Basic Language'' gives a 33% chance to interpret the message, ''Advanced Language'' 66%, and ''Expert Language'' 100%.)
::#Every beat is audible to everyone in the 13 by 13 square with the drummer at its center. (13 by 13 is just large enough to cover an entire camp, and camps should be communication hubs, after all.)
::In general, this item would benefit natives about as much as GPS units benefit outsiders. The hearing radii and AP costs of messages could be changed easily if drums became too powerful, annoying, or ineffective. And yes, I've played Urban Dead. =)
::— [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 22:54, 9 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Hammer===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=New Item|
suggest_scope=Available to all characters|
suggest_description=A basic hammer. This item seems necessary for potential future building skills such as roads or huts or hut fortifications. Hammers could also be used as offensive weapons. They could also be subject to random breaking like machetes.|
suggest_time=06:18, 1 May 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Throgonuts|Throgonuts]]|
suggest_comments=

*I don't think we need another weapon until there's an actual niche for it to fill. I think hut-building would be great — require that all 8 surrounding jungle squares be cleared before one can be built, make huts destructable by melee weapons or by growing jungle in the immediate area, and turn standard medical/ammunition/trading huts into indestructable stone structures — but we don't need a hammer now. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)

}}
----
===303===
'''type:''' new item.

'''scope:''' availible to only outsiders.

'''description:''' a 303's nickname is actually: elepahant rifle,[in real life],a 303 is able to blow a elephants head of 1 shot in the neck i am suggesting this for the further success of the CP against the reefer terror cell,though it could turn against us if lord paul reefer get's his hands on it or one of his group members!.

'''Damage:''' 15, special dmg: 16.

'''Time stamp:''' 15,25, 17 June, 2006 (EST).

'''Author:''' [[Riddick]]

'''Comments:'''
*No. Hell, I can scarcely understand what you're trying to suggest here. I can see that it's ridiculously powerful, though.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:01, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

----

===Berries to Increase AP===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Change item's effect|
suggest_scope=Tasty berries (or similiar item)|
suggest_description=There are so many HP-healing items in the game, most of which heal only 1 or 2 HP so are not cost-effective to use (In terms of AP-spent-per-HP-healed), therefore are not used at all by wise players. To make some of these items more valuable and add an interesting dynamic to the game, I suggest that the effect of eating berries should be to increase your AP level rather than you HP level. Eat some tasty berries, they invigorate you and you gain 2 AP (you spent one AP eating them, net gain of 1 AP). All of the long-time players have been in the situation I'm sure (and most newer players too), where we are about to kill an elephant or tiger or an enemy player for that matter, but we run out of AP just as the target is at 3 HP, then we have to go off-line and cant wait about for 20 minutes to finish the target off, as we have real-life obligations (while we are gone the target invariably escapes, is killed by someone else, or kills you!). So carrying around 5 bunches of tasty berries could give you 5 free AP when you really need them. Thus berries would become a very valuable item in the game too, rather than a superfluous item|
suggest_time=00:47, 21 June 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Arminius|Arminius]]|
suggest_comments=

Comment here

I like the idea! You're probably going to end up with a net loss of APs on them anyway, but it's kinda like storing APs... This could work well. -[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 10:54, 21 June 2006
:Exactly, you would definitely have a net loss of AP finding them. There would also be net loss of AP buying them in the trading hut, and once people catch on to how valuable they are they would become tremendously expensive (demand would overwhelm supply), making for an even bigger net loss of AP buying them. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:40, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I could certainly see it getting out of hand. You'd need to cut it off at a certain point. Maybe 5 is about right.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:03, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
:Why would there need to be a cut-off? Even if someone is carrying 50 bunches of berries (which they will have spent many days worth of AP searching for on berry-bush squares), they will get their 50 extra AP and then it's all gone. With a full 75 AP and with 50 bunches of berries, a person could use 125 AP within a few minutes. If theoretically two 80-HP enemies are standing on the person's same exact square, odds are he can kill both with 5 AP to spare, but now all his berries are gone. I would agree that carrying 50 bunches of berries is pretty ridiculous, but again the person will have spent many days searching for them, a tremendous net loss of possible damage inflicted if he had just used all those hundreds of AP he spent searching, attacking. And even in that extreme example all he can do is inflict 160 damage and then his berry supply is used up, So I dont think it is necessarily "out of hand". Besides, anyone who does such a thing (spends days finding 50 berries and goes and uses them all at once) is an idiot and a very poor player, the berries would be valuable to be used when you really desperatrely need them, when you are out of AP about to get a kill or maybe in some other limited way (as MorkaisChosen said, it is a way to store AP), not in that way. If you are worried about people camping berry bushes to get lots of AP-boosting berries, see below (and remember that some people do the same for first aid kits anyway). [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:40, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

A comment I have is that this would make berry bushes genuinely valuable, but it is probably not desirable to have everyone camp the berry bushes, that's boring. Fortunately this problem is already solved by something Simon implemented very early on--berry bushes dry up and new ones are discovered all the time (it might be advisable to increase the rate at which they dry up and new ones pop up for this). [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:40, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

}}

Bugs

2006-06-23T04:24:37Z

Arminius: /* AP in 37 Minutes */

This page is for adding reports of possible bugs. Once the bug has been confirmed, it can be moved into the Known Bugs section.

Before reporting a bug, you might want to check [[Bugs:Not|Not Bugs]] just in case it's actually not a bug.

Bugs that have been resolved and older than a week, can be found at [[Bugs:Fixed]].

== Example ==

Use a simple, sensible bug title. Provide information about your browser, operating system, character class, and location terrain if necessary.

To use the template, enter the following, but replace '''emboldened text''' with text appropriate to your bug report:

<nowiki>===</nowiki>'''Bug Title'''<nowiki>===</nowiki>
<nowiki>{{bugreport</nowiki>|
bug_time=<nowiki>~~~~~</nowiki>|
bug_author=<nowiki>~~~</nowiki>|
bug_status='''new / fixed / not a bug'''|
bug_severity='''low / med / high / critical'''|
bug_description='''Full description. Check spelling and be descriptive.'''|
bug_comments=

'''Comment here'''

}}

{| cellpadding=10 align=right
| __TOC__
|}

== Possible Bugs ==

=== Not able to attack animals ===
I'm at [-70.358,+26.343. There's a large deer here yet I don't have the option of attacking it. For some reason it's giving me the option of speaking to it. Says "Jungle
A number of small trees here aren't that much taller than the heavy undergrowth." --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:00, 19 March 2006 (GMT)
*Never mind. I travelled a few squares then came back and it gave me the attack option.--[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:02, 19 March 2006 (GMT)
* Very odd, never heard of that happening before. Bugs like this would be pretty much impossible to track down unless I'm able to check the database at the time at which it happens. If it happens again, you could try letting me know over instant messaging before you move. Contact info on my user page. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 09:35, 19 March 2006 (GMT)
----

===Banshee Wail village annihilation===
Not sure if this is a bug, or perhaps just bad luck, but for the past several days in York, the Pirate Ship, and Dalpok, every time I log back in to Shartak I have a screenful (or 3) of Banshee Wails, have lost a bunch of hit points, and have seen others around me keel over dead. From the timestamps it looks like you can send out 5 Wails per minute; sometimes I see 50 Wails in a row. None of my characters have Sixth Sense, so I don't know how many wailers are around -- maybe some new people are just testing the skill? If people are harvesting XP in a crowded village, though, it's probably not going to stop, and in fact will get far worse as more than just a handful of players learn how to wail. (Are the villages becoming ghost towns?) Thanks! --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 16:59, 30 April 2006 (BST)

:Logged on again, found another example:

<pre>
Since your last move:
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
Archibald turns white as a sheet, and keels over dead. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a haunting scream coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
Frederick turns white as a sheet, and keels over dead. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
bobblehat turns white as a sheet, and keels over dead. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
Sprocket turns white as a sheet, and keels over dead. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. You die of fright. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:46)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:57)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:57)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:57)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:57)
Brock Sampson turns white as a sheet, and keels over dead. (2006-05-01 05:57)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
</pre>

--[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 07:16, 1 May 2006 (BST)

Banshee Wail is a 1AP activity, so you can do 72 every 24 hours. That's extremely nasty. [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 09:41, 1 May 2006 (BST)

* Not unless you're only being heard by 1 person (or unless I've broken the code that calculates AP usage). Perhaps it should be considered an attack similar to using a weapon, and thus have a percentage chance of actually wailing/shrieking? It sounded like a good idea and not too powerful when I was working on it, but maybe my maths was off. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:59, 1 May 2006 (BST)
:* One problem with Ghosting is that it is stealthed and shielded - the wailer is invisible and invulnerable to new players. The most recent two characters that I created started out their lives (deaths) with a massive spam attack of unexplained banshee wails while sleeping in a hut in my own home town. That can't be encouraging for new players joining Shartak, who expect some plausible safety. Usually game mechanics counterbalance invisible strikes by reducing fire-rate and damage, but banshee wail combines invisibility with higher damage and larger area-of-effect. From the outside, it looks like a sniper rifle that autofires grenades. But I don't have the skill, so this is just from my anecdotal experience. In my opinion, banshee wail should not affect the inside of town huts or the shipwreck. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 20:49, 1 May 2006 (BST)
::*That said, shouldn't a spiteful, vengeful spirit be considerably powerful? This is why I am trying to make an [[Talk:Suggestions#Exorcism|Exorcism suggestion]]. I haven't heard enough from the other users yet, though. I've only heard from about two people.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 21:39, 12 May 2006 (BST)
:::*Well, except that every player who dies becomes a spirit, whether or not they are spiteful and vengeful. If the motivation for banshee wail were related to revenance and vengeful dead, one would think that the wail would only harm your killer, or would only be usable by someone murdered in unusual circumstances. That said, current changes seemed to have cleaned up the spamming problem... --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 08:31, 13 May 2006 (BST)
::::*This is actually leading to spirits camping around things like medical and ammo huts with no way for a player to deal with it. This has basicly become a skill that allows you to sit at important places, harvest xp, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. --[[User:Shosuro|Shosuro]]
:Yep, large groups of spirits are still camping certain game locations. Is the new Seance going to allow corporeals to disrupt spirit-campers? --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 04:04, 2 June 2006 (BST)
::No, at the moment Seance gets you the ability to identify passive spirits (the ones who just hang around not wailing or anything). --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 22:26, 14 June 2006 (BST)
----

===Machete Trades===
{{bugreport|
bug_time=22:23, 4 June 2006 (BST)|
bug_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
bug_status=new|
bug_severity=low|
bug_description=So I'm at Trader Harry's hut in York and I decide to trade for some bullets. This is what he says:
 
:You ask to trade your blunt machetes for his rifle bullets.
:Trader Harry makes you an offer, "I'll give you three rifle bullets for a blunt machete"

:You ask to trade your machetes for his rifle bullets.
:Trader Harry makes you an offer, "People just don't seem to want to buy machetes so I can't offer full price for yours. I'll give you two rifle bullets for a machete"
 
Now why would I get more bullets for a broken item that's essentially a machete anyways?|
bug_comments=

The trader logic is strictly a supply/demand thing. If a trader doesn't have much of a certain object, it has more value to him, despite the fact that in this case a sharp machete is more useful than a dull one. Not really a bug, IMO, as it will eventually work itself out once the traders start getting a lot of these items that they over-value. No one's going to be buying the dull machetes. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 03:28, 5 June 2006 (BST)
:* But blunt machetes are so much more valuable than sharp machetes. Just consider:
::# If you search in the resource huts, machetes are very common. Everyone carries a machete or three. But who's got a blunt one? Blunt machetes are very scarce. Their rarity makes them precious.
::# If you have a blunt machete, it is very easy for you to make a sharp machete (1AP and a Stone). If you have a sharp machete, it is very difficult to make a blunt machete (1000AP and the jungle). Thousands of trees might be destroyed during the creation process -- potentially an environmental castastrophe. Please, think of the trees! Don't manufacture that blunt machete by yourself, buy it from Trader Harry -- whatever the cost!
::If you like, I'll also explain to you why Bottles of Water are cheaper than Mangos, Bananas, Rum, Beer, even though the Bottles of Water are tremendously more powerful. I'll explain why Blowpipes cost $300, despite the fact that you're more likely to kill someone by eating Tasty Berries than by using a Blowpipe. And I'll explain how traders sneak out while everyone is asleep, and hide their stock in resource huts, for everyone to find again. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 00:51, 9 June 2006 (BST)
:::Appears fixed. Apparently, blunt machetes no longer sell for more than machetes. Bottles of water only heal 2 HP. Blowpipes cause lots more poison damage. Traders still sneak out and stash medkits and ammo in resource huts while we sleep, but in a game with Easter Bunnies, I'm not too surprised. I'm waiting for the Tiger Tooth fairy to come get my amulet. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 15:57, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Trekking Broken===
{{bugreport|
bug_time=14:13, 10 June 2006 (BST)|
bug_author=[[User:Vtbassmatt|VTBassMatt]]|
bug_status=retracted/not a bug|
bug_severity=med|
bug_description=Trekking seems to be suddenly broken. When I walk in the jungle, it's always subtracting a full AP instead of the 0.5AP it did yesterday. Within Wiksik limits, though, it's still only taking 0.5AP. Now I'm out of AP, so I can't try venturing back into the jungle.|
bug_comments=

* Depends what density jungle you were trekking through. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 14:39, 10 June 2006 (BST)
:: OK, then not a bug.

}}

===AP in 37 Minutes===
{{bugreport|
bug_time=18:16, 13 June 2006 (BST)|
bug_author=[[User:Vtbassmatt|VTBassMatt]]|
bug_status=new|
bug_severity=med|
bug_description=For some reason, when I ran out of AP, the system told me I would have another in 37 minutes. I was just walking around in a character without trekking, so I don't believe it's a negative or 1/2 AP problem. See [[:Image:37minutes.png|37 minutes screenshot]].|
bug_comments=

I also got a similar message with '22 minutes' on my first day - Ssarl
*For characters without trekking it now costs 2 AP to walk on dense jungle squares like the one you ended your turn on, so if you had 1 AP left just before you moved onto that square, your true AP total would be -1, or 40 minutes to get back up to 1 AP. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 17:47, 14 June 2006 (BST)
*I didn't notice that - does that mean I was looking for a bug when there wasn't one? On the other hand, I did see some weird stuff going on and am going to make a couple of tweaks shortly which may fix it anyway. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 21:59, 14 June 2006 (BST)
:: If it does indeed cost 2AP to walk on dense jungle, then Arminius is correct. Simon, you sound a little uncertain for a guy who can, ya know, look at the code ;) --[[User:Vtbassmatt|VTBassMatt]] 21:19, 15 June 2006 (BST)
::It does take 2 AP if you don't have trekking so that sounds like the reason for the 37m AP issue. If I sound uncertain, it's probably because the unusually hot weather here in the UK over the last week has melted my brain. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 00:35, 16 June 2006 (BST)
*I recently encountered a similar problem. I was searching through a swamp and ran out of AP after 5 searches even thought I had around 40 Ap to start with (I think). Suddenly it says I'm -1 Ap and that I need to wait 59 minutes for more Ap. [http://wiki.shartak.com/index.php/Image:Proof.jpg Proof]. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:53, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
:Doesn't searching in a swamp cost 3 AP, so this is not a bug. If you had 1 AP before your last swamp-search, it would cost 60 minutes (20x3) to regenerate to 1 AP. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:20, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
::No, this is a bug. The screenshot shows -1 AP. He will be at 0 AP in less than 20 minutes. He will be at 1 AP in less than 40 minutes, and he will be able to move. In 38 minutes, the refresh will jump from "come back in 21 minutes" to "you can move". --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 15:52, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
:::At the moment, I'm listed as having 0 AP, but it says 33 minutes until my next move. (Impossible?) --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 02:54, 23 June 2006 (UTC) Look for an AP display bug. When I refreshed the screen, my AP changed from 0 to -1. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 02:56, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
::*I think the number of minutes that it tells you before you can move again is determined by your last action before running out of AP, i.e. if you took an action requiring 1 AP it tells you how many minutes till you get back to 1 AP, if you took an action that used 2 AP it tells you how many minutes till you get back to 2 AP, if you took an action that used 0.5 AP it will tell you of 10 minutes or less. This could be an explanation for the problems. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 04:24, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

}}

===Poltergeist attack (10%)===
{{bugreport|
bug_time=18:24, 16 June 2006 (BST)|
bug_author=[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]]|
bug_status=new (fixed?) |
bug_severity=low |
bug_description=Apparently, characters in spirit form who have learned the new Psychic Recognition skill gain a new "Poltergeist" attack mode: ''Attack [-No one-] with [Poltergeist (10%)]''. However, the attack button costs 0 AP to use, and appears simply to refresh the screen (with no other effect in about 50 attempts).
|
bug_comments=

Game designer comment suggests that this was a bug, and that it has already been fixed. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 18:24, 16 June 2006 (BST)

}}

Game design

2006-06-22T06:32:17Z

Arminius: /* Population */ re-added total without pirates to outsider stats (this is significant

{| cellpadding=10 align=right
| __TOC__
|}
This an open forum to discuss game design. These are neither [[Bugs]] nor [[Suggestions]] (though they may lead to bug reports and game proposals), but points to consider for maintaining balance and consistency.

==Combat-centric gameplay==
Combat appears to be the most efective way to earn XP. I believe that there must be a means to reward non-combatants more than what healing and chopping vegetation provides. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 04:05, 15 March 2006 (GMT)
* Shouldn't exploring be rewarded? Isn't that why statistics on exploration are kept? --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 02:51, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
** It is, but in a fairly limited manner - chance of getting 1XP for chopping into a d10 jungle block. Of course, what with all the intrepid explorers wandering around, there don't seem to be that many of those right now. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 23:57, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
*** Even worse, the chance of getting the 1XP at all seems terrible. Chopping d10 Jungle is the Book-reading of Shartak. In my humble opinion, chopping max jungle should be closer to 33%-100% chance of 1XP, in order to result in at least as much XP as eating forbidden fruit (farming the poison berry / mango grove; about 4 XP per 12 AP). My XP comes from killing animals ... And a game-wide tally of XP earned would probably show similar overall results. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:22, 12 April 2006 (BST)
**** (Previous comment was made before the stealth game modification of 1XP chance from chopping jungle - has the chance of gaining XP now been increased to 33%??) --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:40, 15 May 2006 (BST)

And I suppose it's not just an issue of XP, but also recognizing other playing goals. In addition to kills, there should be a log for non-combat-oriented activities like healing, revival, chopping, searching, swimming. This would however require a great deal of variable recording and I'm not familiar with supporting an MMORPG to know what kind of stress that would put on the server. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 20:34, 16 April 2006 (BST)

==Slow combat==
Base accuracy for a weapon is higher than a fist, which is arguably unrealistic. One assumes that you would be less skilled with a weapon than your own hand. (I recall reading a similar comment to this, but I can't find it at the moment.) --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:52, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
*All characters appear to have a 10% chance to deal 1 damage with punching.
*Knives and Daggers appear to have a 20% chance to deal 1 damage.

:maybe it is just the punch only has a ten percent chance to actually doing damage(the text does say missed however), I know if i fought somebody who has a knife(or dagger) in RL they would do more to me than me to them, even if niether of us have any training,ex. Fists are a strange weapon and to actually do any damage with a punch(mainly only at the strongest point in your swing) you have to have some good timing.-- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 02:02, 3 March 2006 (GMT)
::I see what you're saying... how about punch 50-70% with a 20-30% chance of inflicting 1 damage after a successful hit, 0 damage otherwise (making it 10-21% but with 3 different messages - miss, hit but don't do damage, hit and do damage). --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 10:56, 4 March 2006 (GMT)
:Let me point out that this isn't really a problem. It's just something that a die-hard realist would try to press. On one hand, you can have Fists as the most accurate weapon until you get weapon skills (which will make the the first levels incredibly painful). On the other hand, you can have weapons as more accurate than fists (which allow new users to quickly become involved in the game). I don't know if I'd have the patience if it took me 70 AP to kill a parrot. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 16:12, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

==Type (Faction) Balance==
'''Axiom''': Outsiders and Natives should not have a complete advantage over the other. 
'''Axiom''': Outsiders and Natives should be different, but equal.

===Population===
Natives are currently outnumbered by Outsiders. --04:05, 15 March 2006 (GMT)
* The introduction of Pirates as an Outsider character class may further tip the population imbalance without a Native counterpart. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 02:49, 20 March 2006 (GMT)

Outsiders continue to greatly outnumber natives by a margin of two-to-one: 651 active outsiders vs. 319 active natives as of May 15 2006. The population breakdown by town and village is not available (and not significant anyway, since at any time characters from a given town will be all over the island). The following are class-by-class breakdowns of active characters:

<div>
{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" style="background-color: #f9f9f9; border: solid 1px #ccc; border-collapse: collapse; float: left" |
|-bgcolor="#ccc"
|colspan="3" align="center"|'''970 active players (15 May 2006)'''
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Outsiders'''||'''651'''||'''67%'''
|-
|Explorers||85||9%
|-
|Soldiers||241||25%
|-
|Settlers||37||4%
|-
|Scientists||62||6%
|-
|''Total'' w/o ''Pirates''||425||44%
|-
|Pirates||226||23%
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Natives'''||'''319'''||'''33%'''
|-
|Shamans||117||12%
|-
|Warriors||121||12%
|-
|Villagers||43||4%
|-
|Scouts||38||4%
|}

{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" style="background-color: #f9f9f9; border: solid 1px #ccc; border-collapse: collapse; float: left; margin-left: 1em" |
|-bgcolor="#ccc"
|colspan="3" align="center"|'''1037 active players (21 June 2006)'''
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Outsiders'''||'''695'''||'''67%'''
|-
|Explorers||71||7%
|-
|Soldiers||240||23%
|-
|Settlers||46||4%
|-
|Scientists||65||6%
|-
|''Total'' w/o ''Pirates'':||422||41%
|-
|Pirates||273||26%
|-align="left" bgcolor="#ddd" valign="top"
|'''Natives'''||'''342'''||'''33%'''
|-
|Shamans||128||12%
|-
|Warriors||129||12%
|-
|Villagers||39||4%
|-
|Scouts||46||4%
|}
 

Notes:
*<s>Outsiders have a huge advantage with 5 HP bottles of water vs 1 HP gourds of water.</s> Fixed.
*<s>Outsider soldiers have a big advantage over warriors, since the blowpipe is worthless.</s> Fixed.
*Outsider camps are coastal (easy to find driftwood, hard to get lost). Outsiders have the cool and valuable GPS units, while wiki-less natives get terribly lost in the jungle -- that doesn't make sense. Natives should innately know their way home as an advantage to counterbalance their geographic location and loss of GPS. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 07:49, 27 May 2006 (BST) (revised 01:46, 22 June 2006 (UTC))
*Outsiders have a large advantage over natives by sheer force of numbers, though this is mitigated by pirates being a somewhat separate group from the non-pirate outsiders.
*On both sides the largest class is the soldier class. On the outsider side this is not out of line with the storyline of the game, as early colonial efforts were often heavily military-based, but it is somewhat out of line with the native side.
*There is an inordinate number of native shamans and pirates. The pirates can be explained easily enough (a fleet of pirate ships crashed and they saw the chance to loot the island), but why would 37% of natives be shamans?
::(I'm not bothered by this, Shartak is so stuffed with wailing spirits that attuned natives make sense. The name of the class cannot and should not define or constrain the role that the player wants to play - there are some shamans who explore, others who trade, some who kill outsiders and some who kill their own tribe. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 07:49, 27 May 2006 (BST))
*Settlers and villagers remain the smallest groups, despite having the great Scavenging skill available to them. If this lack of settlers/villagers is seen as a problem, one thing to do could be to boost their starting inventory and change their description on the sign up page to something more exciting (it currently says "just your average outsider/native")

===Actions exclusive to character type===
Actions that Natives by default can perform, that Outsiders by default cannot:
*Can determine the difference between "Tasty" and "Poisonous" berries.
*Can use Blowpipe and poison darts
*Can use Healing Herbs
*Can understand other Natives

Actions that Outsiders by default can perform, that Natives by default cannot:
*Can use a GPS unit
*Can use Rifles and bullets
*Can use First Aid Kits
*Can understand other Outsiders

==Class Balance==
'''Axiom''': No class should have a complete advantage over the other.

===Soldiers and warriors===
According to the [[Talk:Character Classes|chart]], Soldiers have a slight advantage over other classes in regards to skills. Add to that their high HP, gives them even more of an edge. The only disadvantage they face is the process of searching and reloading ammunition. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:52, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
:Assuming that chart is accurate, the soldier isn't even the most advantageous class among his own group! The scientist has more total skills available then a soldier, and if you give more preference to being able to shoot a gun, then it is important to note how low search rates are, and that ammunition is even more rare. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:27, 3 March 2006 (GMT)
::The chart isn't complete. I did make some assumptions in possible skills based on what we know about the skill trees, but I don't think that it was wholly inaccurate to do so. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 00:40, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

===Shamans===
Shamans supposedly don't start with any items and have the lowest HP.
*Counterpoint: Shamans and their outsider counterpart, Scientists, are among some of the highest ranking characters at the moment. Something is obviously working. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:52, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
:What shamen may lack in starting inventory they more than make up for in overall skill potential (seemingly the most of any class). What good is starting with a banana or a few extra bullets by comparison? --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:27, 3 March 2006 (GMT)
::Say What now? Which skill is exclusively shaman? I've seen none.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 14:58, 8 May 2006 (BST)
:::At the time of writing, the shaman class seemed to have access to skill trees that other classes did not. Those comments are no longer accurate. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 19:03, 8 May 2006 (BST)
::::It is possible that Scientist and Shaman have a slightly higher find rate for items -- there is not nearly enough data to know if something like that is the case. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:45, 15 May 2006 (BST)

===Population===
According to the statistics, there is a lack of interest in Villagers and Settlers. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:52, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
:I agree, at this point there doesn't seem to be any overiding appeal for these classes, which logically should be the most abundant, at least with regards to villagers. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:27, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

There are currently two more Villagers than Scouts. Settlers currently remain the lowest. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:44, 8 May 2006 (BST)
:The introduction of Scavenging makes the Villager and Settler extremely powerful. Currently the Scout and Explorer appear weakest (their higher max AP pool isn't noted on the character class page, and also they might have a lower chance of 'forgetting' without cartography...). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 05:48, 8 May 2006 (BST)
::That possible cartography-related ability is interesting. Never considered that. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 07:15, 8 May 2006 (BST)

===Mechanics===
Are there any game mechanics (besides HP, starting inventory, and available skills) that are influenced by your character class? Should there be? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:52, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
*Inventory size
*Base accuracy
*Base damage
*Search odds
*AP limit

*I have 3 characters and i have more higher search odds with the scientist (3 heavy swords) than the others .. i don't know if it's only a matter of luck or not..--[[User:JonesDye|JonesDye]] 10:08, 7 March 2006 (GMT)

It has since been revealed that Scouts may possess more AP than the other classes. (See [[Requests for information]] for more) --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:44, 8 May 2006 (BST)

== Gameplay Balance (XP-gaining Paths) ==

'''Interactivity Axiom:''' Generally speaking, player-player interaction improves a game, and should be encouraged.

'''Diversity Axiom:''' Generally speaking, having players engaging in a wide range of activities improves a game, and should be encouraged.

'''Diversity in XP-Gaining Corollary:''' There should be multiple distinct paths to gaining XP.

Three Fundamental Axioms of Gaining XP:

'''DANGER AXIOM:''' Ways of earning XP that are '''dangerous''' and '''risky''' should be more lucrative than ways that are '''safe'''. (Dangerous: chance of death; risky: variable gains, a chance of little gain.)
*A. Danger is often actualized as loss of AP through death or wounds, and accurate economic analysis must account for these additional costs.
*B. Variable (risky) returns are not as valuable as a guaranteed return with the same mean value -- compare the stock market to treasury bills.
*C. Rewarding dangerous playing styles typically increases interactivity and diversity.

'''COMPLEXITY AXIOM:''' Ways of earning XP that are '''complex''' and '''challenging''' should be more lucrative than ways that are '''simple'''.
*A. The richness of complexity and challenge attracts more players to a game.
*B. A long learning curve keeps players interested.
*C. Complexity typically increases interactivity and diversity.

'''COHERENCY AXIOM:''' Ways of earning XP that are '''absorbing''' and '''realistic''' should be more lucrative than ways that are '''irrational'''. (Realistic: here means plausible and self-coherent – vampires that fear sunlight and crosses are fine, vampires that fear grassland and snakes are not.)
*A. A game with a rich and engaging atmosphere keeps players more interested than a game that is arbitrary and incomprehensible.

In other words, if we observe paths to XP that are Safe, Simple, and Unrealistic, these paths should provide less XP per AP than other paths that are Dangerous, Complex, and Absorbing.

'''Broader Applicability of these Axioms:''' Note that these axioms are stated for earning XP, but they apply equally to earning Gold Coins, appearing on a high score list, or achieving any other victory conditions.

Suggestions:Items

2006-06-21T00:47:36Z

Arminius: Berries to increase AP

{{Suggestions header|page_type=Items}}

== Items ==

=== Absinth ===
Could have a very low chance of being found, and would display as "Bottle of absinth" (in addition to the existing "Bottle of beer" and "Bottle of water"). Would result in a distortion of game display, showing some kind of living beings (native, outsiders or animals) as another kind (a native could be displayed as an outsider or an animal), causing the intoxicated character to attack people he wouldn't have attacked otherwise, or trying to role-play with an angry elephant. --[[User:Mad Robert|Mad Robert]] 03:53, 19 March 2006 (GMT)
*No reason to drink it then? --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 23:37, 19 March 2006 (GMT)
**I'm sure someone would drink it anyway. Could bring back some HP, of course... --[[User:Mad Robert|Mad Robert]] 23:50, 19 March 2006 (GMT)
*The whole "distortion of game display" thing sounds too complicated. If it's a powerful enough hallucinogen, it could work as a teleporter to a random nearby location ("As the effects of the absinthe wear off, you realize that you have moved to a different part of the jungle."). But I think it'd be better theme-wise to introduce a plant native to the island with such an effect; also, these "strange herbs" would give outsiders something to confuse healing herbs with. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 13:24, 21 May 2006 (BST)
----

=== Spear ===
It could be the native warriors main weapon, give it a base damage of 3, same to hit as machete but it wouldn't cut through jungle -- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 11:02, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
*A spear for stabbing or a spear for throwing (i.e single use) ? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:49, 25 February 2006 (GMT)
**I like the idea of a spear for stabbing. We have enough single use weapons in the game, already. What would make it so different from a blowgun, if it is throwable? Which brings up another question: With a weapon that deals 3 damage and is reusable, who will bother with a blowgun?--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 06:54, 29 March 2006 (BST)
*The machete is already better than the blowpipe if you've got the three melee upgrades, and the spear would represent a third melee weapon warriors like me would need to carry around (along with a knife for writing and a machete for chopping). I don't see a point, unless it's to compete with the heavy sword, in which case I'd recommend that the heavy sword be toned down. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 13:32, 21 May 2006 (BST)
----

=== Head-shrinking powder ===
This could be either a melee or area weapon used by natives.

''Comments''
*What are the effects of it? Causes X HP of damage? Loss of AP? Loss of XP? Instant death? - [[User:Snarf|Snarf]]
**Could be used on a body to create a totem of some sort. This can then be placed in a square. People from the same village or settlement as the now shrunken head take twice as many AP to move through because of fear. Disintergrates after x number of people have moved through the square. {{unsigned|Hyper tyger|17:18, March 18, 2006 (BST) }}
----

=== Meat ===
Heals 2 HP. Used by both outsiders and tribals. It appears in your inventory when you kill a beastie. [[User:Bungalow Bill|Bungalow Bill]]

''Comments''
*But you can only carry 200 pounds of meat back to your wagon. <nowiki></oregontrail></nowiki> --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:15, 13 February 2006 (GMT)
*Or you have to cook it, taking one AP and possibly a fire-lighting skill (who wants to eat raw monkey?).[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 20:12, 20 February 2006 (GMT)
**Maybe you don't have to cook it but you get less HP and possibly lose HP to food poisoning. [DarkFerret]
*Or, to make it more, hm, tribal, you could need to bring it back to specific places in the village where it could be (instantaneously) cooked and used as a replenished "health pool" any player could use. You would still have the occasional berries to eat in the forest, but real meal would occure at a settlement. It would also provide a more efficient healing system (as currently, you roughly get to spend 50 AP to recover 4 or 5 HP, which makes death the most efficient way to restore your HP). -- Leaf
**''There is a large pot of stew cooking, it appears to be half full.''
***''You eat some and feel better. After a few spoonfuls you find your friend's pocket watch.'' [DarkFerret]
**Make it 1 HP per kg of meat (basing carcass size loosely on the animal's starting HP), and make each HP of carried meat fill 1 inventory space (and pretend preservation isn't a problem). Put an ever-boiling pot in each village (in a boring oudoor place; we could use more points of interest), and give people experience points whenever they contribute meat to any pot (more meat gives you more XP, and putting meat in the pot of your home village gives you extra (double?) XP). Omnipresent spices and palate differences could make food at Outsider villages inedible for Natives, and vice-versa. (Pirates ought to be able to eat from any pot, but for half the health benefit. Maybe they should even be able to eat meat raw.) Any non-meat added to the pot would simply disappear (and poison from poison berries would be broken up by the heat). This system would (1) encourage community, (2) increase realism (there's currently no realistic reason for a non-warrior to kill a non-threatening animal), and (3) provide another theme-fitting non-combat XP path. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)
***As per Elembis. For example, a meat item could be eaten raw for 1HP per 1 inventory space, or returned to a cooking pot (imho only in native camps...). Drinking from a cooking pot could restore 2HP, until "The pot is currently empty". Non-meat items could not be added to the cooking pot -- the game menu functionality would be limited by the user interface (for example, Add Meat to Cooking Pot doesn't appear or doesn't work until you have meat in inventory, and adds meat to the cooking pot when clicked). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 21:37, 16 June 2006 (BST)
***We should keep in mind that eating from a pot should heal faster than searching for and applying herbs and kits, or else players in need of healing won't bother. (6 searches per FAK/herb means 7 AP per 5/10 HP healed for non-scavengers, so 2 HP per bowl of food should be fine.) Also, I think that pots should treat pirates like normal outsiders, that all camps should have pots (since outsiders are surely capable of cooking meat), that the item should be "piece of meat", that the description for a square with a pot should read something like "There is a fire here with a large pot over it.", and that the button should read "Add Meat to Pot" (or perhaps that feature should just be linked to the "meat" button in the inventory list). — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 22:20, 16 June 2006 (BST)

----

=== Radio beacon/receiver ===
A radio beacon/receiver for outsiders to pinpoint specific locations of interest.

''Comments''
*What's wrong with using the GPS co-ordinates of a specific location? - [[User:Snarf|Snarf]]
*Perhaps a way to have GPS waypoints or markers IN one own's GPS? --[[User:Wcervantes|Wcervantes]] 19:39, 16 February 2006 (GMT)
----

=== Holy Scriptures ===
Used to convert Natives into Ousiders. Requires "Religious Devotion". Most likely found around Outsider settlements --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
*Nobody wants to have a class change againt their will. -Grigoriy
*Noone wants to die against their will either, but it does happen ;-) Might be irritating, but also might be quite interesting. It would have to be possible both ways of course, natives to outsiders and outsiders to natives. Perhaps the outsiders can convert natives to outsiders with holy scriptures using the religious devotion skill and natives can convert outsiders to natives with a bottle of beer using the seduction skill! ;-) --[[User:Murk|Murk]] 12:28, 4 March 2006 (GMT)
*Class conversion gets awfully mucky, when you consider available skills. I would say that a better idea would be for use of Holy Scriptures on a native to prompt the natives with an invitation to change sides--without changing class. This would make them see outsiders by name, make natives anonymous, and cause them to show up on the map as "1 convert" to outsiders (as opposed to "1 native") and as "1 traitor" to natives. Converting back would require a shaman with an equivalent skill (which can, of course, offer outsiders an opportunity to be accepted into native communities).
:Note, though, that I have no idea how difficult that would be to write in, given the existing code.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:01, 29 March 2006 (BST)
*Such a feature would allow anyone to change class bath and forth at will by just using another of their characters of the appropriate class to effect the conversion, which makes classes virtually pointless.
*Class conversion sounds bad. Religion might be interesting, but this seems like a messy and unpleasant way to include it. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)
----

=== GPS Unit (Redesign) ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Item, modification|
suggest_scope=GPS unit|
suggest_description=This is a suggestion to change the gps unit into an object that presumably fits better with the game setting. We currently have no other modern item available for use (anachronism - VOCABULARY WORD!). Perhaps we should use a sextant? And rather than reveal the position all of the time, it requires a 1 AP use in non-dense, non-enclosed area.|
suggest_time=21:48, 23 February 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

* Yes, GPS units are indeed ''malapropos'' (another vocabulary word :D)--[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 00:33, 27 February 2006 (GMT)
* Y'know, the "GPS Unit" item has stuck out like a sore thumb to me too. I'd be very much in favor of a lower-tech replacement, if only because it makes the game more timeless. But what tools ''did'' explorers of earlier eras use to measure latitude and longitude while traveling by land, anyway? And how accurate were they? Alternatively phrased: if you were trapped on a desert island without a GPS Unit, how would you estimate where you were? Lint's suggestion for a lower-tech replacement item, requiring AP and suitable terrain conditions for proper use, appeals to me. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:03, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
* I've done some research into this and as Lint said, a sextant is what was used. Unfortunately though, a sextant doesn't do both longitude and latitude very quickly, you need charts/tables and several hours. See http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/longitude/secrets.html for info. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 14:55, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
** Ahh; yeah, I had just been checking out http://www.lewis-clark.org/content/content-article.asp?ArticleID=1268 myself. If I'm reading it right, it sounds like the bulk of the hours of calculation involved were due to being at sea and having to figure out what time zone you're in first as part of the equation. (Both pages mention a "chronometer" which was finally invented to try to solve that problem.) On land, though -- and especially on an island of Shartak's size -- you pretty much know where you are, and you're not likely to be crossing time zones. A quote from the Lewis & Clark page: "If time can be fixed along any meridian of longitude, then longitudinal distance can be determined by comparing time at that meridian with local time, usually based on the point at which the sun reaches its zenith." So. I wonder if we could fudge a bit with this sextant business by assuming that everyone on the island is able to determine what time it is on Shartak -- after all, we do get timestamped event messages! ;) -- and therefore we can apply that bit of knowledge to help determine longitude, overcoming the sextant's weakness. That could even go in the FAQ. I'm not really all that scientifically inclined, so please do feel welcome to correct me if if my thoughts are way off base. In closing, I still like Lint's ideas about making it cost AP and require suitable terrain. The former would represent the investment of time in setting up the equipment and doing the calculations. The latter would give players a reason to clear a square of jungle. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 16:07, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
*** That all sounds good. I think there is a skill in there as well - I don't suppose a sextant is as accurate as GPS, so why not have it not produce the same result all of the time? Someone with the "Skillful Sextant Supervisor" skill gets more accurate results. --[[User:Dr. J|Dr. J]] 16:17, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
** The AP cost of a sextant or other device could easily be added to the GPS unit by requiring that you 'use gps' to get the reading rather than it being on all the time. Whilst redesigning the GPS unit, how about thinking of something for natives to find out where they are - obviously not as accurate as a sextant, but something to guide them around or to specific locations. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 16:30, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
*** Just consider it a redesigned sextant that some mythical character dropped around the island and call it "Professor Inglewood's Speedy Sextant And Nano Tables" or some other such nonesense and leave it working the same, just with a different name. As for natives, maybe they could see/read totems at different points in the jungle, indicating where resources/towns are. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 17:06, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
***Natives divine their position with animal feces. It can be a new skill ;) Actually, in all seriousness, perhaps something involving animal bones? It would need to be something mystical, as there just isn't a more primitive method than the sextant. That way, it sort of balances; you use animal bone dice for a few minutes to divine your position accurately, and outsiders sit dow nand use a sextant.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:08, 29 March 2006 (BST)
***I'm currently of the opinion that the Natives don't need a version of the GPS. It helps a little with the mapping projects and location scripts. But my Shaman was just as lost than my gps-using Settler when I was traipsing through the Jungle. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:10, 30 March 2006 (BST)
****So natives need a sensing skill that gives them direction and distance to the nearest village. Natives seem to flail at the beginning compared to outsiders: every outsider counterpart item/skill is stronger (especially gps, blowpipe vs rifle, and the lack of bottled water). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 05:43, 10 May 2006 (BST)
*****How about giving Natives a 'always on' ability (like the GPS is now). They have been born and raised here, they _always_ know where they are (or perhaps it should be modified so that they always know where they are in relation to their village - ie, (201N, 34E of Wiksik). Make the GPS a sextant and require an AP to take a reading and perform the calculations. I would go so far as to suggest that it be tied to the Cartography skill or possibly an additional skill in the Cartography tree.[[User:Anothertwilight|Anothertwilight]] 06:20, 10 May 2006 (BST)
******I like this idea as well as Frisco's. Rename the GPS, keep its 0 AP use cost, and give all Natives the ability to "Sense Position" for 1 AP and be told the direction and rough distance of the nearest village. ("After several minutes of attentive communion with the spirits, you sense that Raktam is about a day's journey north of here.") Maybe even take the GPS away; the Natives should know their way around better than the Outsiders. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)

}}

=== Refillable containers ===
Does it really make sense that after drinking something, you automatically discard the container it had been in? I propose a modification to the inventory system so bottles/gourds work similar to rifles and blowguns--they can be refilled if they are empty. Obviously, you can't just carry around spare water like you can ammo, so to refill a water container, you have to be in water. This would clearly make areas near water more popular, which I don't think is a bad thing, or without precedent. Furthermore, this could lead to new and interesting directions, such as other liquids that could be carried around, causing various effects. Off the top of my head:
* drinking too much "ocean" water will make you sick (reducing your hit % temporarily)
* a "create mysterious serum" skill the shaman/scientist can eventually learn that (along with certain ingredients) lets them create a "buff" potion.
* special healing water springs that have double the recuperative effect
This would also address one of the concerns I've had regarding healing skills. To my knowledge, there is no place in Shartak where you are more likely to consistantly find healing kits/herbs, etc. its all fairly random. By comparision, UD has certain buildings where you can only find certain items (i.e. hospitals = first aid kits). IMO, its currently too difficult/AP consuming to heal. Without a way to consistantly find/create healing items, it's not likely there will be "healers" willing to use their hard-to-find healing items on anyone else. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 22:14, 25 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
*Have you found the hut in Dalpok with all the drying herbs hanging up? Says something about a shaman being busy, I seem to have a reasonable success rate at finding healing herbs there. Not sure if there are more around. --[[User:Snarf|Snarf]] 22:17, 25 February 2006 (GMT)
**No, I hadn't noticed such a hut(s), I've assumed they were all pretty much the same. If certain huts are more likely to contain certain items, I've another suggestion--'''label them'''. Any opinion on my primary suggestion of refillable containers? --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 22:31, 25 February 2006 (GMT)
***I can confirm that huts may look identical on the outside, but their inside descriptions can differ significantly. Fortunately, anyone with the right tool can carve a message on a hut's outer walls, such as "Empty Inside" or "Shaman's Hut". --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:24, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
*Refillable containers? Give the user the choice to discard the container? Sure, sounds cool to me. About the water supply: I agree that ocean water (water right off the beach) would be bound to be salty and unpotable in a real-world scenario. According to the [[Locations]] page, there's a river off the south side of the mountain, which would seem to be the only known terrestrial fresh water source on the whole island. Hmm, a thought: If we were to have refillable containers, then might one also expect there to be wells in or around the villages? --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:24, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
**There is at least one more (much shorter) river near Derby. I'll bet there is a lake or two somewhere as well. Wells are probably not a bad idea. --[[User:Dr. J|Dr. J]] 15:05, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
***According to the [http://www.itechsc.com/misc/shartak/ubermap/ uber map] there are three lakes (two are close to each other) in addition to the river, and a pond by Durham. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)
----

=== Remove uber sword of doom(aka heavy sword) ===
I don't even have a heavy sword yet but I can already tell(from the item page) that it makes a lot of things utterly useless.Just for reference the heavy sword is(when maxed attack skills) 45% hit, 5dam= '''2.25dam/ap'''. What does it make useless, well let me begin. 

1.Rifle skills- reason: the ap you spent getting the xp for those skills was better used searching for a heavy sword. 

2.Rifle- reason: the dam/ap for the rifle is lower than a the heavy sword '''before''' factoring in the search for ammo part. The math: the rifle is 5 dam,60% hit,1.5 ap/shot( 3ap per 2 shots i think)= (5*.6)/1.5 =3/1.5 = '''2ap/dam NOT FACTORING IN SEARCHING FOR AMMO'''.

3. The blowpipe- reason: the blowpipe sucks as it is, the machete makes it pointless(unless they actually poison) and the heavy sword just makes it absolute garbage(even if they poisoned). The math: 4 dam, 20% hit, 2ap/shot(assuming you have to reload after every shot i don't use the blowpipe so I wouldn't know)= (4*.2)/2=.8/2= '''.4 dam/ap NOT FACTORING IN SEARCHING FOR AMMO'''.

Conclusion- I realize there are problems with the blowpipe but as far as I can tell with the rifle there are none. The knowledge of there even being a heavy sword is enough to discourage those that would take rifles training as a skill. The sword is just too powerful to balance in game as the only way to balance it would be to add another item that is just as crazy powerful, making it rare does nothing to the balance as people can still find it and it makes those few ,whom the RNG loves, ridiculosly overpowered. If the RNG loves somebody they should get multipul hits in a row not the ability to destroy everybody who can't/doesn't want to waste the ap to gain that ability. And after all just because it is rare doesn't mean we all can't find it, I know eventually we would all find one and there would be no variaty whatsoever in battle. Take urban dead for example they balanced the shotguns,pistols, and fireaxe evenly so there is no superior choice its about how you want to play. With the heavy sword it makes all other items pale in comparison BEFORE search rates are keyed into calculations, in urban dead it is AFTER that they are about even. This suggestion to remove something doesn't punish anybody because as of right now we do not know where to find the heavy sword, the only ones were stumbled across randomly so nobody would really have "wasted" the ap to find it(unless they have but I know after reading a bit I didn't for the fun reducing factor everybody having one would bring). Also don't bring up things about how I don't know how it works ingame because unless it takes 6ap to attack the math shows it is unbalanced. Please Simon fix this unbalanced weapon by removing it, not by making everything else oh so much better. ANybody who is with me sign in the comments please.

'''Comments'''

*The math looks sound. And I agree that having everyone run around with Heavy Swords would make for a plain game. However, I don't see why it needs to be removed completely. Is there anything we can do to the sword mechanics to make it more even with the existing weapons? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:04, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
*I agree. The machete with maxed out melee skils is arguably better than any other weapon, and the heavy sword makes that look like a butter knife. Yank it or make it so rare it would be like winning the lottery twice. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 01:49, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
*I disagree with some of the logic in this argument. If the heavy sword were a common weapon, then I could understand the concern; however, the "über sword of doom" is hardly of such availability. As far as I know, only one player has the sword. Having rare items like it add a new dimension to the game - a sort of treasure hunting aspect. I would even propose that even more superior weapons are "hidden" around the island, possibly protected by superior animals. --[[User:Gandhi|Gandhi]] 00:34, 22 March 2006 (GMT)
** One player on the [[Game design]] page has commented on how he has acquired 3 Heavy Swords. Don't get me wrong, some weapons should be better than others to allow for diversity (that's why there's knives, daggers, and whatnot). However, as it stands, the Heavy Sword to our knowledge is the single best weapon available. Everyone is going to be running around with it and if you don't have one, you won't be able to compete. It'd be like playing Rock-Paper-Scissors-Nuclear Bomb and Nuclear Bomb always wins. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 00:52, 22 March 2006 (GMT)
*Are these even real? I mean, how many people claim to have gotten them? one? This almost looks like a pretty funny joke. Also, Simon has stayed silent on this, implying some sort of uber sword conspiracy, so perhaps we shouldn't rock the boat. (Cue up suspenseful music) -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 06:02, 22 March 2006 (GMT)
**i have 3 swords ,but i'm reading it's really rare. I feel really lucky :). Oh , and i think it's too powerful compared to other weapons. Maybe there must be other rare ranged weapons (like some 6 or 7 o 8 damage rifle) or something like this --[[User:JonesDye|JonesDye]] 09:38, 27 March 2006 (BST)
**I thought I'd made them fairly rare (after the initial burst of finding them) but I think I made them too rare perhaps. There are still only 4 people with them, looks like the same 4 who had them originally. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 00:01, 8 April 2006 (BST)
**Do you even have one Simon? --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 00:17, 8 April 2006 (BST)
**Nope. No heavy sword for any of my characters. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:18, 8 April 2006 (BST)
*The original poster is correct about rifles/blowpipes being too weak. The rifle's AP/damage ratio is actually much lower than even the machete's, let alone the mysterious heavy sword. The rifle's accuracy is its edge, but 60% maximum accuracy really isn't *that* high or that much of an advantage over the 45% machete accuracy. The introduction of two new skills to the firearms skill tree, "Marksmanship" and "Expert Marksmanship", each of which would add 10 or 15% to rifle/blowpipe accuracy, would help to solve this problem I would say (I dont know if anything like this has been proposed before). Dont remove the heavy sword, just make rifles more powerful. -[[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 01:29, 8 April 2006 (BST)
* With the addition of the forgotten blowpipe skills, that should help the blowpipe ratio, and I'd say ignore the heavy sword since it seems so rare that you'll be lucky to get one unless someone trades one in for some essential supplies. Not sure about 80% accuracy with either of the ranged weapons - would those skills be available to all or just as an extension to firearms/blowpipe training? What happens to the blowpipe damage if the poisoning suggestion is implemented and the poison effect is added that takes away 1-5 HP over the next 5 AP unless you use serum or first aid kit (damage numbers not definite, just a rough figure)? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:18, 8 April 2006 (BST)
**I was thinking that the new skill(s) would be part of the ranged weapon skill tree (how can one be a marksman if he does not have firearms training). I like the idea of making a ranged skill available to all though. A maximum accuracy of 20% for all non-soldier/warrior characters seems very low. Maybe the first skill in the tree should be available to all, but the next 2 or 3 skills only for soldiers/warriors? Just an idea. -[[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 02:50, 12 April 2006 (BST)
* I think adding one skills for rifle and one for blowpipe is really cool. Marksmanship is a nice name , but not to add accuracy, but to add +2 to damage. Poisoning for blowpipe go well too. Oh, and one of my swords is gone ç__ç. And about trading, i tried to trade one of them , but the trader didn't have 49 gold coins..and i think you can add some powerful and rare rifle--[[User:JonesDye|JonesDye]] 08:42, 10 April 2006 (BST)
* Currently the rifle (w/both skills) gets only 0.75 damage/AP total (searching, loading, and shooting) based on my calculation, and 3 damage/AP in combat (only shooting). The machete (w/all three skills) gets 1.35 damage/AP and obviously requires no searching or loading. I think that new skill(s) for the rifle/blowpipe to get their damage/AP ratio closer to (but not equal to or past) the 1.35 machete ratio would be the best way to go. If a new skill or two increases ranged damage by 2 as JonesDye suggested, the result would be a ratio of 1.05 total damage/AP, and 4.2 damage/AP in combat. (If skills are added to increase maximum accuracy to 80%, the result would be 1 total damage/AP and 4 damage/AP in combat.) This, I think, would be a better balance. Ranged weapons should be superior to the machete in combat, and they are, but currently they are only 2.2 times better (3 vs. 1.35). The proposed new combat ratio of ~4 damage/AP would be three times better than the machete in combat, although still inferior in total damage/AP ratio. (Note that the combat ratios mentioned above are exact, but the total damage/AP ratios are not exact because I do not know the % chance to find ammunition. The total damage/AP numbers used above assume that a total of 5 bullets can be found in 10 searches on average, which may be a liberal estimate but seemed accurate based on my experience.) -[[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 02:50, 12 April 2006 (BST)
**Still, 3 damage per AP isn't that bad. You can track someone down, kill someone outright in ~25 AP with a rack of rifles, and run far away -- whereas a machete might take 60 AP to cause ~81 damage. The blowpipe needs a lot of help: you can only carry half as many loaded pipes, and so you have to waste time in combat reloading. I believe that blowdart poison could cause another 1 dmg/turn for 4 turns (8 damage total if they don't heal) and it still wouldn't be overpowered. 20% to hit is totally useless, though. I would suggest something like a 20% -> 35% marksman upgrade for all classes, then 35% -> 50% -> 65% for soldier/warrior. Unless a non-soldier can attain a 35% or 40% to-hit rate with a rifle (higher with a blowpipe), the weapon serves absolutely no purpose -- it is just a glorified 1/3-gem. And if the heavy sword has the same break rate as other blades in the game, then there is no problem with a 1/3000 find rate or whatever. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 05:59, 10 May 2006 (BST)
*As long as the heavy sword is extremely rare and quite powerful, why not replace it with a single "elephant sword", or something with a similarly grand title. There would only be one on the island (or one per village: "The Elephant Sword of York", etc.), its carrier would not be able to drop it (or, if dropped, it would be given to the next player revived by that village's shaman), players would get a special message upon being attacked by it, and it would change possession to the player who would kill its carrier. Also, its carrier should get a movement penalty so they'll be easier to catch. (And perhaps every person should have a sixth sense to divine the location of their village's Elephant Sword.) In short, if the sword is going to be rare, ''make it special''. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)
----

=== Ranged weapons ===

I never used a rifle, but the blowpipe feels quite useless at the moment indeed (unless it poisons). I was wondering if a ranged aspect could be added to those weapons to make up for their poor hp/ap ratio and their ammo requirement (and their lack of poison?). In practice, that would mean that once the rifle (or the blowpipe (I wonder if it poisons)) is selected from the attack drop-down menu, the target drop-down menu would include the entities from the surrounding squares. That would allow for some slightly safer attacks, especially in difficult terrain, or for around four minutes of triumph for having attacked someone from the distance (and poisonned him?), before being machetted to death anyway. That is: not much, but the satisfying feeling to have used a special weapon, with its own pros. -- Leaf
* Ranged weapon skills for warriors to boost the blowpipe are in the pipeline. Seems I missed a section from my notes when adding skills. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 10:12, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
* Sweet --[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 06:34, 14 March 2006 (GMT)
**A bit of poison on that blowdart (1 hp dmg per move for 4 turns e.g.) would be nice. The current blowpipe is totally hopeless as a weapon, even for warriors. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:22, 20 May 2006 (BST)
----

===studded leather & war gear===
both items have the same effect, except one is for outsiders and one is for natives, upon looking at the names, i cant really tell which would be for who, but that doesnt matter.
theese items could act likee flak jackets, but could (possibly) have the chance of inflicting damage upon being hit, as per, a guy with tons of knives on him being punched would probably cut up his assailant's hands. {{unsigned|Richard Rose|04:59, March 29, 2006 (BST)}}

*Hm. I don't like the idea of inflicting damage on the assailant. I think that's a bit of a stretch. I could see outsiders coming over with breastplates and whatnot (a la John Smith, be it the noble stud from ''Pocahontas'' or the weaselly entrapeneur from history). Natives, though, would be unlikely to have that much. Perhaps, though, a wooden, oblong, leaf-shaped shield. Perhaps it would give a small (10%?) chance of blocking a melee attack. Thus, both sides would have a form of protection, but they would be ''different'' forms of protection, serving to distinguish the two sides.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 08:31, 10 April 2006 (BST)
----

===animal wearings===
such as teeth and hide could be added to one's [[inventory]] or slot for extra damage, accuracy, etc.. {{unsigned|Richard Rose|04:59, March 29, 2006 (BST)}}

*Honestly, this just seems silly. Why would I suddenly hurt you more for having a tiger tooth in my pocket?--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 08:32, 10 April 2006 (BST)

:*It would be a psychological effect. A tribesman who believes that the spirit of the tiger is strengthening his arm through the use of a magic talismen will fight harder. {{unsigned|Naomi|19:56, April 10, 2006 (BST)}}

::*I ''still'' think it's a huge stretch.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:08, 11 April 2006 (BST)

:::*Yah, shamanic magic being able to cause or prevent damage is a stretch, tell that to the dozens of spirits farming xp in my hut. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:25, 20 May 2006 (BST)

:::Apparently this has been implemented - I just got a tiger tooth amulet from the pirate trader. He doesn't have any others, alas... *brag* [[User:Ssarl|Ssarl]], 12:19, June 16

----

===Messenger Pigeons===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=New item|
suggest_scope=All outsiders|
suggest_description=Allows Outsiders to send messages over long distances. Just type up the message and enter the recepient's name and the bird flies off.
''You watch your pigeon fly off and hope it doesn't get intercepted.''
 Pigeons must be captured with an unamed skill and may be intercepted with a separate skill.|
suggest_time=22:23, 9 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

*How would you handle said "interception?" Would you be notified of pigeons sent off within a certain number of squares, and offered a chance to stop it? Would it show up as an actual animal that one could kill? I would say that the idea of sending a messenger pigeon along as a new, low-hp NPC with a specific destination is neat, but I don't know how hard it would be on the server.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 08:35, 10 April 2006 (BST)
*Moving an npc pigeon wouldn't be difficult as long as there were only a limited number of them in play at any one time. How would you specify the destination though - pigeons need to know the destination don't they (not sure how homing pigeons work)? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 14:38, 10 April 2006 (BST)
**Mmm. Maybe one would need to specify a GPS coordinate? Actually, I'm fairly certain that birds have been taught to find specific people that they are familiar with. Perhaps once we have a contacts list (do we? If so, I haven't been able to add anyone) we can send it to those listed on it? Then it would be rather like the mobile phone of UD... except that it takes time to travel, and could be killed for EXP by other players :) What kind of limit would you have in mind, by the way? I mean, I can't imagine a whole lot of people using this often enough for it to really be a problem, but as the game grows... You never know.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:12, 11 April 2006 (BST)
**I would say that you would have to have a the person on a contact list before you can send them a messenger pigeon. The pigeon would move like 1 square per 5 mins and would appear as an attackable animal. The limit is that there are only so many pigeons in Shartak. You would have to have a skill to capture one without killing it. This skill could also be used to capture a messenger pigeon without killing it in order to "intercept" the message. Or perhaps tehy are different skills? Pigeons would be reusable. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 01:27, 11 April 2006 (BST)
*Capturing and intercepting pigeons seems quite unrealistic. Instead, maybe you could give each village a communications hut with infinite pigeons, available to people from that village. Pigeons in inventory could be sent up with a message, and after some time they'd appear in their home villages and their messages would be held for their recipients. I like the drum idea better, though. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)

}}

===Drum===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=New item|
suggest_scope=All Natives|
suggest_description=Allows all Natives within a specified area to hear the senders message. Any Outsiders hear random drum beats unless they have the Expert Language skill.
''You hear random drumming in the distance.''
 Requires a drum beating skill to utilize.|
suggest_time=22:35, 9 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

A drum language? Neat. I would make it a native-only skill, though (how difficult would it be for an outsider to learn ''of'' the language, let alone the language itself?), and only one skill. Also, to show the difficulty of true articulation in such a language, it would be good to lower the character limit on drum messages. This way, long messages will be broken up, and will require a bit more AP.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 08:40, 10 April 2006 (BST)

:Awesome. A great idea to help underpowered natives (no bottles of water in native villages, terrible blowpipe, no gps, outnumbered, etc.) and also a cool new rare item. Doesn't appear abusable. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:27, 20 May 2006 (BST)

:I like this idea and think it should be open to Natives only, for the reasons [[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] gave. Also, it stands to reason that Natives should have some kind of communication advantage, being Natives on the island and everything. Messages should have to be extremely short, or else there should be increasing AP costs for longer messages (1 AP per character, perhaps?). Think of Morse code. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)

::I'm thinking that drums could be to natives what GPS units are to outsiders in terms of cost, usefulness, and skill requirements. Here's how it works in my mind:
::#All natives, and outsiders with ''Native Knowledge'', can drum a message for 1 AP per character. Outsiders without ''Native Knowledge'' either (1) have their beats carry a shorter distance or (2) have a 20% chance of breaking their drum. (I prefer the second option, assuming drums would be expensive items. I'd rather have drums be completely off-limits for such outsiders, but I can't think of a realistic reason for them to be unable to bang on a drum.)
::#Only natives, and outsiders with ''Native Knowledge'', can determine the direction of a beat. (Bass noises are the hardest to pinpoint.)
::#Only players on the same side as the drummer, and players on the other side with language skills, can interpret beats, as with all other communication in the game. (Unskilled listeners hear "random drumming" instead of "<garbled message>", since extremely short messages will be quite common and language obfuscation doesn't touch the first letter of a word. ''Basic Language'' gives a 33% chance to interpret the message, ''Advanced Language'' 66%, and ''Expert Language'' 100%.)
::#Every beat is audible to everyone in the 13 by 13 square with the drummer at its center. (13 by 13 is just large enough to cover an entire camp, and camps should be communication hubs, after all.)
::In general, this item would benefit natives about as much as GPS units benefit outsiders. The hearing radii and AP costs of messages could be changed easily if drums became too powerful, annoying, or ineffective. And yes, I've played Urban Dead. =)
::— [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 22:54, 9 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Hammer===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=New Item|
suggest_scope=Available to all characters|
suggest_description=A basic hammer. This item seems necessary for potential future building skills such as roads or huts or hut fortifications. Hammers could also be used as offensive weapons. They could also be subject to random breaking like machetes.|
suggest_time=06:18, 1 May 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Throgonuts|Throgonuts]]|
suggest_comments=

*I don't think we need another weapon until there's an actual niche for it to fill. I think hut-building would be great — require that all 8 surrounding jungle squares be cleared before one can be built, make huts destructable by melee weapons or by growing jungle in the immediate area, and turn standard medical/ammunition/trading huts into indestructable stone structures — but we don't need a hammer now. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] 15:41, 21 May 2006 (BST)

}}
----
===303===
'''type:''' new item.

'''scope:''' availible to only outsiders.

'''description:''' a 303's nickname is actually: elepahant rifle,[in real life],a 303 is able to blow a elephants head of 1 shot in the neck i am suggesting this for the further success of the CP against the reefer terror cell,though it could turn against us if lord paul reefer get's his hands on it or one of his group members!.

'''Damage:''' 15, special dmg: 16.

'''Time stamp:''' 15,25, 17 June, 2006 (EST).

'''Author:''' [[Riddick]]

'''Comments:'''

----
===Berries increasing AP===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Change item's effect|
suggest_scope=Tasty berries (or similiar item)|
suggest_description=There are so many HP-healing items in the game, most of which heal only 1 or 2 HP so are not cost-effective to use (In terms of AP-spent-per-HP-healed), therefore are not used at all by wise players. To make some of these items more valuable and add an interesting dynamic to the game, I suggest that the effect of eating berries should be to increase your AP level rather than you HP level. Eat some tasty berries, they invigorate you and you gain 2 AP (you spent one AP eating them, net gain of 1 AP). All of the long-time players have been in the situation I'm sure (and most newer players too), where we are about to kill an elephant or tiger or an enemy player for that matter, but we run out of AP just as the target is at 3 HP, then we have to go off-line and cant wait about for 20 minutes to finish the target off, as we have real-life obligations (while we are gone the target invariably escapes, is killed by someone else, or kills you!). So carrying around 5 bunches of tasty berries could give you 5 free AP when you really need them. Thus berries would become a very valuable item in the game too, rather than a superfluous item|
suggest_time=00:47, 21 June 2006 (UTC)|
suggest_author=[[User:Arminius|Arminius]]|
suggest_comments=

Comment here

}}

Jidram

2006-06-21T00:27:10Z

Arminius:

<noinclude>
'''Jidram''' is a wandering [[shaman]] with no ties to any village.

==Current sighting==

* </noinclude>{{GPS|70|207|26|443}} 00:27, 21 June 2006 (UTC)<noinclude>

==Previous sightings==


* {{GPS|70|242|26|456}} 00:30, 10 June 2006 (BST)
* ''Location unknown'' 01:38, May 27, 2006 (BST)

{{Shamansnav}}

[[Category:Shamans]]</noinclude>

Bugs

2006-06-21T00:20:12Z

Arminius: /* AP in 37 Minutes */

This page is for adding reports of possible bugs. Once the bug has been confirmed, it can be moved into the Known Bugs section.

Before reporting a bug, you might want to check [[Bugs:Not|Not Bugs]] just in case it's actually not a bug.

Bugs that have been resolved and older than a week, can be found at [[Bugs:Fixed]].

== Example ==

Use a simple, sensible bug title. Provide information about your browser, operating system, character class, and location terrain if necessary.

To use the template, enter the following, but replace '''emboldened text''' with text appropriate to your bug report:

<nowiki>===</nowiki>'''Bug Title'''<nowiki>===</nowiki>
<nowiki>{{bugreport</nowiki>|
bug_time=<nowiki>~~~~~</nowiki>|
bug_author=<nowiki>~~~</nowiki>|
bug_status='''new / fixed / not a bug'''|
bug_severity='''low / med / high / critical'''|
bug_description='''Full description. Check spelling and be descriptive.'''|
bug_comments=

'''Comment here'''

}}

{| cellpadding=10 align=right
| __TOC__
|}

== Possible Bugs ==

=== Not able to attack animals ===
I'm at [-70.358,+26.343. There's a large deer here yet I don't have the option of attacking it. For some reason it's giving me the option of speaking to it. Says "Jungle
A number of small trees here aren't that much taller than the heavy undergrowth." --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:00, 19 March 2006 (GMT)
*Never mind. I travelled a few squares then came back and it gave me the attack option.--[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:02, 19 March 2006 (GMT)
* Very odd, never heard of that happening before. Bugs like this would be pretty much impossible to track down unless I'm able to check the database at the time at which it happens. If it happens again, you could try letting me know over instant messaging before you move. Contact info on my user page. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 09:35, 19 March 2006 (GMT)
----

===Banshee Wail village annihilation===
Not sure if this is a bug, or perhaps just bad luck, but for the past several days in York, the Pirate Ship, and Dalpok, every time I log back in to Shartak I have a screenful (or 3) of Banshee Wails, have lost a bunch of hit points, and have seen others around me keel over dead. From the timestamps it looks like you can send out 5 Wails per minute; sometimes I see 50 Wails in a row. None of my characters have Sixth Sense, so I don't know how many wailers are around -- maybe some new people are just testing the skill? If people are harvesting XP in a crowded village, though, it's probably not going to stop, and in fact will get far worse as more than just a handful of players learn how to wail. (Are the villages becoming ghost towns?) Thanks! --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 16:59, 30 April 2006 (BST)

:Logged on again, found another example:

<pre>
Since your last move:
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
Archibald turns white as a sheet, and keels over dead. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a haunting scream coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
Frederick turns white as a sheet, and keels over dead. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
bobblehat turns white as a sheet, and keels over dead. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
Sprocket turns white as a sheet, and keels over dead. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. You die of fright. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:46)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:57)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:57)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:57)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:57)
Brock Sampson turns white as a sheet, and keels over dead. (2006-05-01 05:57)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
</pre>

--[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 07:16, 1 May 2006 (BST)

Banshee Wail is a 1AP activity, so you can do 72 every 24 hours. That's extremely nasty. [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 09:41, 1 May 2006 (BST)

* Not unless you're only being heard by 1 person (or unless I've broken the code that calculates AP usage). Perhaps it should be considered an attack similar to using a weapon, and thus have a percentage chance of actually wailing/shrieking? It sounded like a good idea and not too powerful when I was working on it, but maybe my maths was off. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:59, 1 May 2006 (BST)
:* One problem with Ghosting is that it is stealthed and shielded - the wailer is invisible and invulnerable to new players. The most recent two characters that I created started out their lives (deaths) with a massive spam attack of unexplained banshee wails while sleeping in a hut in my own home town. That can't be encouraging for new players joining Shartak, who expect some plausible safety. Usually game mechanics counterbalance invisible strikes by reducing fire-rate and damage, but banshee wail combines invisibility with higher damage and larger area-of-effect. From the outside, it looks like a sniper rifle that autofires grenades. But I don't have the skill, so this is just from my anecdotal experience. In my opinion, banshee wail should not affect the inside of town huts or the shipwreck. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 20:49, 1 May 2006 (BST)
::*That said, shouldn't a spiteful, vengeful spirit be considerably powerful? This is why I am trying to make an [[Talk:Suggestions#Exorcism|Exorcism suggestion]]. I haven't heard enough from the other users yet, though. I've only heard from about two people.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 21:39, 12 May 2006 (BST)
:::*Well, except that every player who dies becomes a spirit, whether or not they are spiteful and vengeful. If the motivation for banshee wail were related to revenance and vengeful dead, one would think that the wail would only harm your killer, or would only be usable by someone murdered in unusual circumstances. That said, current changes seemed to have cleaned up the spamming problem... --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 08:31, 13 May 2006 (BST)
::::*This is actually leading to spirits camping around things like medical and ammo huts with no way for a player to deal with it. This has basicly become a skill that allows you to sit at important places, harvest xp, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. --[[User:Shosuro|Shosuro]]
:Yep, large groups of spirits are still camping certain game locations. Is the new Seance going to allow corporeals to disrupt spirit-campers? --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 04:04, 2 June 2006 (BST)
::No, at the moment Seance gets you the ability to identify passive spirits (the ones who just hang around not wailing or anything). --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 22:26, 14 June 2006 (BST)
----

===Machete Trades===
{{bugreport|
bug_time=22:23, 4 June 2006 (BST)|
bug_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
bug_status=new|
bug_severity=low|
bug_description=So I'm at Trader Harry's hut in York and I decide to trade for some bullets. This is what he says:
 
:You ask to trade your blunt machetes for his rifle bullets.
:Trader Harry makes you an offer, "I'll give you three rifle bullets for a blunt machete"

:You ask to trade your machetes for his rifle bullets.
:Trader Harry makes you an offer, "People just don't seem to want to buy machetes so I can't offer full price for yours. I'll give you two rifle bullets for a machete"
 
Now why would I get more bullets for a broken item that's essentially a machete anyways?|
bug_comments=

The trader logic is strictly a supply/demand thing. If a trader doesn't have much of a certain object, it has more value to him, despite the fact that in this case a sharp machete is more useful than a dull one. Not really a bug, IMO, as it will eventually work itself out once the traders start getting a lot of these items that they over-value. No one's going to be buying the dull machetes. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 03:28, 5 June 2006 (BST)
:* But blunt machetes are so much more valuable than sharp machetes. Just consider:
::# If you search in the resource huts, machetes are very common. Everyone carries a machete or three. But who's got a blunt one? Blunt machetes are very scarce. Their rarity makes them precious.
::# If you have a blunt machete, it is very easy for you to make a sharp machete (1AP and a Stone). If you have a sharp machete, it is very difficult to make a blunt machete (1000AP and the jungle). Thousands of trees might be destroyed during the creation process -- potentially an environmental castastrophe. Please, think of the trees! Don't manufacture that blunt machete by yourself, buy it from Trader Harry -- whatever the cost!
::If you like, I'll also explain to you why Bottles of Water are cheaper than Mangos, Bananas, Rum, Beer, even though the Bottles of Water are tremendously more powerful. I'll explain why Blowpipes cost $300, despite the fact that you're more likely to kill someone by eating Tasty Berries than by using a Blowpipe. And I'll explain how traders sneak out while everyone is asleep, and hide their stock in resource huts, for everyone to find again. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 00:51, 9 June 2006 (BST)


}}

===Trekking Broken===
{{bugreport|
bug_time=14:13, 10 June 2006 (BST)|
bug_author=[[User:Vtbassmatt|VTBassMatt]]|
bug_status=retracted/not a bug|
bug_severity=med|
bug_description=Trekking seems to be suddenly broken. When I walk in the jungle, it's always subtracting a full AP instead of the 0.5AP it did yesterday. Within Wiksik limits, though, it's still only taking 0.5AP. Now I'm out of AP, so I can't try venturing back into the jungle.|
bug_comments=

* Depends what density jungle you were trekking through. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 14:39, 10 June 2006 (BST)
:: OK, then not a bug.

}}

===AP in 37 Minutes===
{{bugreport|
bug_time=18:16, 13 June 2006 (BST)|
bug_author=[[User:Vtbassmatt|VTBassMatt]]|
bug_status=new|
bug_severity=med|
bug_description=For some reason, when I ran out of AP, the system told me I would have another in 37 minutes. I was just walking around in a character without trekking, so I don't believe it's a negative or 1/2 AP problem. See [[:Image:37minutes.png|37 minutes screenshot]].|
bug_comments=

I also got a similar message with '22 minutes' on my first day - Ssarl
*For characters without trekking it now costs 2 AP to walk on dense jungle squares like the one you ended your turn on, so if you had 1 AP left just before you moved onto that square, your true AP total would be -1, or 40 minutes to get back up to 1 AP. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 17:47, 14 June 2006 (BST)
*I didn't notice that - does that mean I was looking for a bug when there wasn't one? On the other hand, I did see some weird stuff going on and am going to make a couple of tweaks shortly which may fix it anyway. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 21:59, 14 June 2006 (BST)
:: If it does indeed cost 2AP to walk on dense jungle, then Arminius is correct. Simon, you sound a little uncertain for a guy who can, ya know, look at the code ;) --[[User:Vtbassmatt|VTBassMatt]] 21:19, 15 June 2006 (BST)
::It does take 2 AP if you don't have trekking so that sounds like the reason for the 37m AP issue. If I sound uncertain, it's probably because the unusually hot weather here in the UK over the last week has melted my brain. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 00:35, 16 June 2006 (BST)
*I recently encountered a similar problem. I was searching through a swamp and ran out of AP after 5 searches even thought I had around 40 Ap to start with (I think). Suddenly it says I'm -1 Ap and that I need to wait 59 minutes for more Ap. [http://wiki.shartak.com/index.php/Image:Proof.jpg Proof]. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:53, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
:Doesn't searching in a swamp cost 3 AP, so this is not a bug. If you had 1 AP before your last swamp-search, it would cost 60 minutes (20x3) to regenerate to 1 AP. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:20, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


}}

===Poltergeist attack (10%)===
{{bugreport|
bug_time=18:24, 16 June 2006 (BST)|
bug_author=[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]]|
bug_status=new (fixed?) |
bug_severity=low |
bug_description=Apparently, characters in spirit form who have learned the new Psychic Recognition skill gain a new "Poltergeist" attack mode: ''Attack [-No one-] with [Poltergeist (10%)]''. However, the attack button costs 0 AP to use, and appears simply to refresh the screen (with no other effect in about 50 attempts).
|
bug_comments=

Game designer comment suggests that this was a bug, and that it has already been fixed. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 18:24, 16 June 2006 (BST)

}}

Talk:Game design

2006-06-14T17:40:14Z

Arminius: /* Comments */

<del>'''Axiom''': Outsiders and Natives should have access to the same items and skills. Or at least something equivalent.</del>
:I think this is a flawed axiom. Who says the two groups have the same skills, or access to the same equipment?! As long as there is balance (and the active player stats are very close) its probably better that each group gets a different game experience. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:16, 3 March 2006 (GMT)
::Which is why I have stated that there should be an "equivalent" available. If the game is sided to suit one type over the other, is there a game? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 00:23, 3 March 2006 (GMT)
:::My overriding opinion is that as long as one side isn't inheirently more "powerful" than the other, its ok if they don't have directly corresponding items and skills. Consider, the technological prowess of the outsiders vs. the jungle knowledge and mysticism of the natives. Different, but equal. I'd be interested to hear other's opinions. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 02:16, 3 March 2006 (GMT)
::::I now see how my statements depicted a direct relationship between abilities for the Outsiders and abilities for the Natives (so that whatever one could do, the other could also do). If this were the case, there would be no incentive to try the other side. I have attempted to modify the axiom accordingly to better capture your point. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 03:54, 3 March 2006 (GMT)
:::::As revised, I am in complete agreement. =] --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 21:25, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

----

Proposal for Mechanics Axiom:

'''Axiom''': There is no right or wrong way to play

*While there is a hinted conflict between Outsiders and Natives, players create their own goals. One person could kill only monkeys. Another could devote themselves to only killing players on their side. Do not restrict or punish players for playing differently. While the game would be incredibly easier to manage if the options were limited, it would lose multiple degrees of dynamic complexity. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 06:04, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

*I feel that it is necessary to simulate linear gameplay in this open-ended game through official quests, events, and minigames. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 06:04, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

===Persistent Shark Bites===
As observed by [[User:Anothertwilight|Anothertwilight]] on the bugs page, shark bites that a character acquires when venturing in deep water will still exist after the character is resurrected. What purpose do persistent shark bites serve in the game? While they haven't affected my playing experience very much (I've killed my soldier twice by shark bite for "research"), I can't see a reason to really keep it ingame. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:14, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
* With the changes to the Shaman a couple of weeks ago, the shark bites are no longer persistent. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 21:32, 8 May 2006 (BST)
:* Hm, so much for my strategy of earning all my xp by pouring bottles of water on my shark bite. Off to find more poisonberries... --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:55, 9 May 2006 (BST)

===Contact Shaman===
It is likely to be more efficient to die than to search for items and heal yourself. (Based on an observation was made by Leaf on the [[Suggestions]] page.) --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:52, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
:I think this observation is based on the false perception that ''one needs to be fully healed at all times''. There is no fundamental difference in performance when at less than ideal health. Remember, this game is set on an unexplored, remote island, not a heavily populated British suburb *coughUrbanDeadcough* its arguably more realistic to not be at peak health all the time, and for healing items to be somewhat scarce. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:12, 3 March 2006 (GMT)
::I guess my problem is that death can be used as a tool rather than a game experience. Say you're at 2 HP. You can spend the next few days scrounging for enough recovery items to heal and continue on or you can get killed and begin playing with full HP the next day. Say you're 100 squares away from your hometown and want to get back, if you can get something to kill you (perhaps even kill yourself with poisonous berries), you will have potentially saved AP. I think we should be discouraged from taking advantage of death somehow. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 18:20, 3 March 2006 (GMT)
:::This is a very good point.. what form of discouragement would be enough to make this less useful? Loss of AP and XP instead of 50AP (if so, what values for each)? Loss of a random skill? Loss of some of your inventory? Maybe you get summoned to the nearest (or random) camp of the same type rather than to your home camp? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 10:56, 4 March 2006 (GMT)
::::I do see your point, Lint, and agree, Death should not be so much useful as it is annoying, nor should it be too annoying. One thought I had (aside from simply making it easier to stock healing items with [[Suggestions#Refillable_containers|refillable containers]]) was to make coming back from the dead progressively harder. I don't simply mean heaping onto the AP cost of getting ressurected, but maybe the shaman can send the dead on quests or punishments or something beyond simply waiting for your AP to recover?--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 01:29, 6 March 2006 (GMT)

::::It's difficult to suggest something to dissuade death while not motivating griefing. I kind of like the camp idea and quests idea, but I'd need to get more familiar with the death experience before I can truly say anything. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 16:12, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

:::::Requiring that a dead person (spirit) must travel to a shaman to be 'resurrected' rather than just hitting the 'spend 50AP - go home' button would stop people using death as a teleporter. Making 'Town Shamans' have to recharge between resurrections (with the amount of time being tweaked depending on player numbers), potentially forcing a spirit to have to hang around and check in on a regular basis to see if the Shaman was ready, would make resurrection less of a sure thing. Another alternative to increase the uncertainty, and hence make death a gamble, not a strategy, would be to give the Town Shamans a %chance to resurrect and a set amount of AP. If too many people tap the Shaman looking for resurrections, they are 'asleep' 'til they recharge. Both would also increase the value of player shamans (whom I presume can also resurrect if they have the right skills). [[User:Anothertwilight|Anothertwilight]] 22:58, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
::::::"Recharging" Shamens sounds like a reasonable idea.
::::::: I like the idea of the spirit having to find the shaman to ressurect him; in addition to the AP cost, they have to wander around the jungle, find their bearings, etc. It also segues nicely for the player shaman to have a skill allowing them to ressurect. Zerging risk here, having a player run a shaman and a "fighter", keeping them close so the shaman PC can quickly revive the fallen fighter. Also, this might create imbalance the two factions, as the PC shamen may not want to revive Outsiders.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 01:37, 6 March 2006 (GMT)
:::::::: If you make Scientists able to revive people as well (they share most of the Shaman skills) would keep faction balance in. [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 12:24, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
::::::I believe that the purpose behind "Contact Shaman" feature is so players that haven't a clue where the nearest village is (ie. ME) don't spend the rest of the game as a lost spirit. I think I'd just create a new character if I wasn't presented with the option to contact a Shaman. Another alternative that I've considered is perhaps the Town Shaman's power isn't as strong over long distances. If a spirit choose to contact a Shaman, they would respawn where they originally died, but with reduced HP. Perhaps a greater distance from the hometown results in less HP. This would put an end to teleportation and make taking advantage of death to gain full health slightly less advantageous (at least if the player is not within reasonable walking distance of a Town Shaman). However, I can see problems if some animal or PKer is camping the corpse, waiting to clobber them when they return. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 02:32, 6 March 2006 (GMT)
:::::::A fair point, what if the player received a message from his "home shaman" if he was he was too far away, and needed to move xx squares in direction X, xx squares in direction Y to be "in range". That player could also choose to go to another shaman if he thought one was closer. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 02:39, 6 March 2006 (GMT)

After now experiencing multiple encounters with death, I feel that 50 AP is an acceptable cost and I am finding it hard to see how exactly this feature can be taken advantage of. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 20:18, 6 April 2006 (BST)
::Also, remember that anyone who scrounges healing items to get back up to full hit points is going to gain 50XP (or whatever) through the process of healing. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:25, 12 April 2006 (BST)

====Summary====
To summarize: Contacting a Shaman can currently be taken advantage of to bypass Traveling and to bypass Recovery. Both are presumably essential experiences to how the game is played.
*We can prevent the teleportation element by removing the option to contact a Shaman altogether.
**However, to provide a user-friendly game experience it probably needs to be kept in place.
***We can reduce our dependency for this option by increasing the number of available respawn locations.
****Reduces the established punishment of having to cover lost ground.
*Rather than the Hometown Shaman, players contact the nearest Town Shaman.
**This will reduce excessive teleportation, but does not eliminate it.
*Allow the Shaman to be contacted but the player respawns where it was rather than hometown.
**Reduces teleportation, but also reduces the established punishment of having to cover lost ground.
*We can artificially represent the act of Traveling and Recovery by extending the time and/or AP spent before resurrection can occur.
**Increasing AP cost
**Quests
**Queues
**Chance
*Or apply penalties after resurrection.
**Reduced HP
**Temporarily Reduced Actions (only movement and inventory; no combat, speech, writing)
***Temporarily Reduced Accuracy
*Or apply penalties to discourage dying in general.
**Loss of XP
**Loss of Skill
**Loss of Item

== Class archetypes discussion ==

I'm revisiting this [[Suggestions:Game_Mechanics#Unique_skills|suggestion]] to flesh out some "archetypes" for the classes to better frame skill suggestions for each set. With generic RPG and Starcraft references! Feel free to edit this rough chart, but please note the changes you make in your comments under the chart. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 19:54, 13 June 2006 (BST)

----
=== Soldier and warrior ===
Soldiers and warriors currently have the second-highest maximum HP. They are also adept at rifles and blowpipes.

The archetype that the soldier and warrior best resemble are the tank-like knights [Marine].

'''Combat'''
* Increased damage
* Increased defense

'''Weapon mastery'''
* Faster (free?) reload

'''Focus'''
* Temporary strengthening buffs (increase attack or defense)
* Special attack skills

----
=== Scientist and shaman ===
Scientists and shamans currently have the lowest maximum HP. At this point in time only the Shaman posseses an advantage, in that they can use ''Seance''.

The archetype that the scientist and shaman best resemble are the frail wizards [Science Vessel]. One does not usually associate these classes with mastering attack skills. Instead, they could be adept at magic and item crafting.

'''Mystic'''
* Exorcism: the ability to affect spirits - in particular, the ability to displace them randomly a ways away, in order to counterbalance the uncontested ''Banshee Wail''
* Increase jungle regrowth, Decrease jungle resgrowth
* Bless, Curse

'''Healing'''
* Ability to efficiently use healing items of the other type (i.e., scientist gain access to ''Natural Medicine'' and shamans gain access to ''First Aid'' - provided they have knowledge skills)
* Advanced ''First Aid'' and ''Natural Medicine'' (to heal more than 10 HP)
* Advanced ''Triage'' (to detect the health of more than just the lowest)
* Ability to detect status effects for characters of the same side - ''Here is Bob (sharkbite), and Joe (20HP, poison).''
* Poultice or dress wounds (no items required, only applied to others, but 10 AP cost, 5 HP heal, 1 XP earned)

'''Crafting'''
* Create potion, Create formula - accessible buffs used by all

'''Science'''
* Improved language skills
* Research - perhaps including finding clues to hidden game plots and events

----
=== Explorer and scout ===
Explorers and scouts currently have the third heighest maximum HP. They also have the highest maximum AP.

The archetype that the explorer and scout best resemble are the stealthy ranger [Ghost]. These characters rely on mobility, speed, agility, and scouting abilities. They are experienced with the terrain and wildlife.

'''Movement'''
* Faster ''Trekking''
* Dodge

'''Wild'''
* Reduced chance to dull blade chopping jungle
* Chopping 2 layers of jungle density for 1 AP
* Skinning, meat - item harvesting from animals

'''Mapping'''
* Improved ''Cartography'' (reduced chance to forget)
* Improved map visibility or terrain knowledge

'''Recon'''
* Faster (free?) ''Tracking'' - e.g. ''Tracking Mastery Skill (0.5 per) beyond the end of the skill tree''
* Trap setting, trap detection
* Stealth - avoid being detected through ''Tracking''
* Weakness detection of opposing side - ''There are 5 natives here. 2 are very injured, 1 is near death.''
* Other unique information-gathering effects - ''This native appears refreshed. (>50 AP remaning)''

----
=== Settler and villager ===
Settlers and villagers currently have the lowest maximum HP. They benefit from ''Animal Affinity'' and ''Scavenging''.

The archetype that the settler and villager best resemble are the non-combat settler or engineer from Civ-like games [SCV]. One of the weakest combat classes, but empowered by improved harvesting and item-management abilities, possibly including unique (minor) special abilities.

'''Harvester'''
* ''Scavenging''
* Increased inventory size

'''Trader'''
* Haggling - trading advantages

'''Builder'''
* Improved hut, boat, signpost building and repair
* Plant and grow fruit trees and berry bushes

'''Tamer'''
* ''Animal Affinity''
* Pet taming (only simple pets - parrot, monkey, and wild boar)

----
=== Pirates ===
They're pirates. They already start with a big HP bonus. Their starting camp is unique, and contains a separate equipment list (including cutlasses, bottles of rum, and gems) with a slightly better value-per-search-AP profile (gems in particular sell for 9 gold coins). No ranged weapon. Because pirates have only one camp and one character class, this faction is more concentrated and homogeneous (and thus perhaps more clan-loyal) than other factions in Shartak.

'''Steal'''
* Plunder ''(For example, pirates could click a "steal" button, or steal from slain characters. Stealing might take 1 or more gold coins, or perhaps a random low-end item.)''
* Pillage
* Loot

'''Destroy'''
* Burn down huts

'''Yo ho ho'''
* Sailing (in pirate ships or little jolly-boats)
* Burying treasure, digging for buried treasure

----
=== Comments ===
# Nice work! ...um, I added a whole bunch of new bullet items, and tried to complete the "already has" sections. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:16, 13 June 2006 (BST)
# One comment I have is that new additions to the game (including skills and items) can appear extremely minor but still add tremendous flavor and quality. Meanwhile, giant steps forward (or away) from current rules always seem to bring out the worst of interminal my-character-is-smaller-than-yours whinefests. For that reason, I'm in favor of items or skills that allow temporary performance boosts. Imho an item or AP-costing action (war chant) that granted a temporary (and/or limited-circumstance) 5% boost would be much better than a skill that granted 5% across-the-board, ...even though (and especially because) previous skills in Shartak typically grant a universal benefit. New skill(s) should be of power comparable to the weakest of Advanced Language or Advanced Tracking or Ghostly Whisper or Animal Affinity. New skills should be creative and useful and break into new territory without spiking the game balance. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 21:39, 13 June 2006 (BST) To clarify: game imbalances, as they exist, should be addressed (redressed) separately and explicitly. (For example, the blowpipe dart should cause Poison damage, perhaps 1 HP per act for 4 acts, because the current blowpipe is worthless even to the Warrior.) --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:23, 13 June 2006 (BST)
# Another comment worth separate emphasis: I would like to see some game mechanics that emphasize cross-class dependencies, intertwine classes, and encourage interplayer cooperation. In other words, the Soldier/Warrior could have military leadership skills, such as War Chant, that would only provide a (temporary) buff to other characters -- such as +10% to all attacks by another character (a contact chosen on a pull-down, or perhaps all characters in the square who are from your home camp). For a price, characters could be allowed to temporarily imbue others with limited benefits of their class skill: contact buffs, friend buffs, foe curses, ... there are all sorts of unexplored possibilities. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 21:39, 13 June 2006 (BST)
# Could you elaborate on Pillage and Loot? Are those just advanced forms of Plunder? Added comment for Set/Vil and trading. Added comment for Sco/Exp and chopping jungle. Added comment for Sci/Sha and dressing wounds. I think it's important to avoid inherent skills (though there is little that can be done about HP and AP values) - but could Improved cartography and Increased inventory be acceptable as inherent skills? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:35, 13 June 2006 (BST)
# Rewrote sections. Removed "XP incentives for exploring" from Sco/Exp. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 06:07, 14 June 2006 (BST)
# I strongly support more class differentation and more class-exclusive skills. Currently classes are almost irrelevant (except the fireams training tree and Scavenging), especially since everyone starts off with no skills. The only place I would support less class-differentation is in ranged weapons, as it is currently useless for non-soldiers/warriors to use them at all (total damage ratio is lower than punching without any accuracy skills). Non-soldiers should have skills available to boost their max accuracybut still be significantly less than soldiers. Also, 0 AP reload should not be a skill available only to soldiers imo, but should be the deafault, for reasons outlined in the marksmanship suggestion in [[Suggestions:Skills]]. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 18:40, 14 June 2006 (BST)

Category talk:Delete

2006-06-14T17:19:42Z

Arminius:

== Valid reasons for deletion ==
Generally valid reasons for deletion nominations include:
* '''Original author's request''' (with no major edits contributed by others). This applies primarily to images, clan pages, and user subpages.
* '''No content''': The page is blank, very small (under 1,024 bytes) or clearly spam.
* '''Redundancy''': The page or file is obsolete or nearly identical to an existing one.
* '''Inappropriateness''': The article, file, category, or template is vulgar or illegal or promotes such activities.
* '''Weak redirect''': The redirect is unused or virtually unused (according to Special:Whatlinkshere) and does not provide apparent accessibility. (Common misspellings, abbreviations, and synonyms are acceptable.)
* '''Weak category''': The category contains no or virtually no articles and has no apparent potential.
* '''Weak template''': The template is unused or virtually unused (according to Special:Whatlinkshere) and has no apparent potential.

==Redirects==
Due to the large volume of nominations, the redirect deletion nominations that occurred on 11 June 2006 will be discussed here. Please leave comments listed under the opening statement. Please leave your vote in the appropriate keep or kill list for better tabulation. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 18:53, 11 June 2006 (BST)
:This looks like the place for redirects that are deletion candidates. Is there another place for us to archive the "best of" redirects: Redirects that can be nominated as integral to the current structure of the wiki? For example, I would suggest that all of the '''skills''' (e.g. [[Scavenging]]), '''terrain types''', '''character classes''', and '''items''' in Shartak need at least one redirect, until such time as each term earns its own individual page. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 22:00, 13 June 2006 (BST)
::Perhaps note those on the [[Category talk:Redirects]] page? Is that visible enough? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:19, 13 June 2006 (BST)
 I dont know why this is an issue. There can never be too many redirects in my opinion. If someone editing an article writes "[[Advanced tracking]]", better if it redirects to [[Tracking]] than having a red link. If someone directly enters an address into the url bar of their browser, e.g. if they go to [[Main Page]] and replace the words "Main Page" in the url with an alternate capitalization scheme or an alternate wording of an item or skill or group or anything else, better they get a redirect to the relevant thing than an empty page. If someone enters a word into the search box and hits enter, but what they enter isn't the precisely correct capitalization/phrasing/plural of the item or skill or whatever they are looking for, better they get redirected to the relevant article than to a blank page. E.g. If someone hears about the heavy sword in-game, and comes here, types "sword" into the search box, much better that they get redirect to [[Items]] (or melee weapons, if it is ever created) so they can read about heavy sword, rather than getting a page full of search results which includes suggestions pages, group pages, and other non-relevant pages. Clan pages should have any necessary redirects if there are variations in their name. e.g. Wicksick headhunters, Wicksick Headhunters, Wiksik headhunters, Wiksick headhunters etc. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 18:19, 14 June 2006 (BST)

=== Lowercases ===
:''Advanced tracking, Expert tracking, Firearms training, First aid, Natural medicine''
Not necessarily bad lowercases. Thery are common enough for use with the search bar and the "go" feature. (Note: Per example provided by Elembis, the author has removed their initial Keep vote.) --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 19:29, 11 June 2006 (BST))


# '''Keep'''. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 18:19, 14 June 2006 (BST)

# '''Kill'''. "Go" and "Search" appear to be case-insensitive. For example, [[Native knowledge]] doesn't exist, but typing "native knowledge" in the search box and hitting "Go" takes me to [[Native Knowledge]] (which redirects to [[Skills]]). Also, searches for "native knowledge" and "Native Knowledge" give identical results. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 19:16, 11 June 2006 (BST)

=== Plurals ===
:''Clans, Herbs, Huts, Spirits''
Not necessarily bad plurals. They are common terms useful when using the search bar and the "go" feature.

# '''Keep'''. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 18:53, 11 June 2006 (BST)
# '''Keep'''. I made all of these deletion requests without "Go" in mind. Plurals are indeed useful enough to be worth keeping. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 20:37, 11 June 2006 (BST)
#'''Keep''' [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 18:19, 14 June 2006 (BST)

# Kill

=== Common ===
:''Sword, Trading post''
Ingame terms or conceivably common player-used alternatives.

# '''Keep'''. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 18:53, 11 June 2006 (BST)
# '''Keep'''. The game itself says "It looks like this hut is some kind of native '''trading post'''", at least in Raktam, and "sword" is a close synonym for "heavy sword". However, I think we should be careful to only allow articles for terms that are actually used by the game or other players, rather than open the door for all terms players might use as synonyms ("shop", "market", "merchant's store", etc.). — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 00:49, 12 June 2006 (BST)
# '''Keep''' [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 18:19, 14 June 2006 (BST)

# Kill

=== Clans 1 ===
:''RE, Mercenarys Guild''
Clan acronyms and workarounds to punctuation (periods, apostrophes and so forth) should be acceptible.

# '''Strong Keep'''. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 18:53, 11 June 2006 (BST)
# '''Keep''' [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 18:19, 14 June 2006 (BST)

# Kill

# '''Whatever'''. =) — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 00:49, 12 June 2006 (BST)

=== Clans 2 ===
:''Order of York Patriots, The Order of Patriots, The south shartak trading company, The Wailers, York Patriots, ''
A bit spammy perhaps, but they help mainly with use with the search bar and the "go" feature.

# '''Keep'''. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 18:53, 11 June 2006 (BST)
#'''Keep''' [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 18:19, 14 June 2006 (BST)

# '''Split'''. Redirects consisting only of a clan's name prefixed by "The" are okay and likely to be searched for, so we should '''keep''' ''The Order of Patriots'' and ''The south shartak trading company'' (moving it to ''The South Shartak Trading Company''). However, we should '''kill''' greater deviations like ''Order of York Patriots'' because they are (1) probably searched for rarely, if at all, (2) extremely likely to give the correct page as the top hit in a search if the redirect doesn't exist (e.g., search for "order of patriots york" or "headhunters wiksik"), (3) likely to point people to the wrong clan page, or be contested, without a vagueness limit (e.g., does "york protectors" refer to the [[Colonial Police]] or the [[Order of Patriots]]?), and (4) likely to cause additional (if limited) article bloat as more clans are formed. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 00:49, 12 June 2006 (BST)

# Kill

==Added==
# 00:07, 12 June 2006 - [[:Category:Clans for both]]
# 11 June 2006 - [[Shartak Community Portal]] (redirect) (w/ [[Talk:Shartak Community Portal|Talk page]])
# 11 June 2006 - [[York Patriots]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[XP Gains]] (redirect) (w/ [[Talk:XP Gains|Talk page]])
# 11 June 2006 - [[Wild Boar]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Wifey]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Trading post]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Trading Hut Stock Reports]] (redirect) (w/ [[Talk:Trading Hut Stock Reports|Talk page]])
# 11 June 2006 - [[Tips and Tricks]] (redirect) (w/ [[Talk:Tips and Tricks|Talk page]])
# 11 June 2006 - [[The south shartak trading company]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[The order of patriots]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[The order of Patriots]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[The Wailers]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[The Order of Patriots]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Temple Ruins]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Tasty Berry]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Tasty Berries]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Sword]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Suggestions/Header]] (redirect) (w/ [[Talk:Suggestions/Header|Talk page]])
# 11 June 2006 - [[Spirits]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[South shartak trading company]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Small Deer]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Small Cave]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Sigfrid]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Sharpening Stone]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Search Odds Results]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[S.P.I.R.I.T.S]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Rifle Bullet]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Requests for Information]] (redirect) (w/ [[Talk:Requests for Information|Talk page]])
# 11 June 2006 - [[RE]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Poisonous Snake]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Poisonous Berry]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Poisonous Berries]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Poison Dart]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Poison Berry]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Poison Berries]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Piece of Driftwood]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Order of patriots]] (redirect) (w/ [[Talk:Order of patriots|Talk page]])
# 11 June 2006 - [[Order of York Patriots]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Order Of Patriots]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Mercenarys Guild]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Large Stag]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Large Deer]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Jabberwockee]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Identify Friend or Foe Initiatiive]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Huts]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Herbs]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Heavy Sword]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Healing Herbs]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Gourd of Water]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Gold Coins]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Gold Coin]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Game Design]] (redirect) (w/ [[Talk:Game Design|Talk page]])
# 11 June 2006 - [[GPS Unit]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Frequently Asked Questions]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[First aid]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[First Aid Kit]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Firearms training]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Expert tracking]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Experience Points]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Contact Home Shaman]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Contact home shaman]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Contact Roaming Shaman]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Contact Home Shaman]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Clans]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Bottle of Water]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Bottle of Rum]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Bottle of Beer]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Blunt Machete]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Blunt Cutlass]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Basic tracking]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Advanced tracking]] (redirect)
# 11 June 2006 - [[Natural medicine]] (redirect)
# 06:15, 10 June 2006 - [[:Category:User]] (w/ [[Category talk:User|Talk page]])
# 20:32, 9 June 2006 - [[:Category:Shamen]]
# 19:51, 9 June 2006 - [[Guardians of Dalpok]] (w/ [[Talk:Guardians of Dalpok|Talk page]])
# 21:38, 7 June 2006 - [[:Image:Stc30yd.jpg]]
# 20:44, 2 June 2006 - [[:Image:Neu.JPG]]
# 18:50, 30 May 2006 - [[:Category:Guide to searching]] (w/ [[Category talk:Guide to searching|Talk page]])

==Removed==
# 22:29, 7 June 2006 Lint deleted "Template:Infobox Village" (observing week-old uncontested deletion request)
# 22:28, 7 June 2006 Lint deleted "Category:Clans for Outsiders" (content was: '<nowiki>{{delete| because :Category:Clans for outsiders covers this.}}</nowiki>')
# 22:28, 7 June 2006 Lint deleted "Category:Clans for Natives" (content was: '<nowiki>{{delete| because :Category:Clans for natives covers this now}}</nowiki>')
# 22:26, 7 June 2006 Lint deleted "Image:Tn shipwreck.png" (observing week-old uncontested deletion request)
# 22:26, 7 June 2006 Lint deleted "Image:Tn york.png" (observing week-old uncontested deletion request)
# 22:26, 7 June 2006 Lint deleted "Image:Tn wiksik.png" (observing week-old uncontested deletion request)
# 22:26, 7 June 2006 Lint deleted "Image:Tn raktam.png" (observing week-old uncontested deletion request)
# 22:26, 7 June 2006 Lint deleted "Image:Tn durham.png" (observing week-old uncontested deletion request)
# 22:26, 7 June 2006 Lint deleted "Image:Tn derby.png" (observing week-old uncontested deletion request)
# 22:26, 7 June 2006 Lint deleted "Image:Tn dalpok.png" (observing week-old uncontested deletion request)

Talk:Search odds condensed

2006-06-14T17:01:58Z

Arminius: /* New style */

==Separate Tables (Columns of Numbers) vs Condensed (Comma-separated Text List)==

Perhaps I'm just tired of having to type:
:poison dart, bundle of darts (5), bundle of darts (5), bundle of darts (7), healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, machete, machete, machete, machete, empty blowpipe (0), empty blowpipe (0), empty blowpipe (0), knife, knife, knife, blunt machete, blunt machete, sharpening stone,
but I would like to switch to Tables for Search Odds, with a table for each important location. The tables would look similar to the following example.
====Ammo Hut Searches:====
{| border=1 cellpadding=2 style="text-align:center; background-color:WhiteSmoke; border: solid 1px DimGray; border-collapse:collapse" |
|- style="background-color:LightGray; font-size:90%"
!Signature!!AP!!Nothing!!Bullet!!Box Bullets!!Bottle Water!!Bottle Beer!!Sharp Stone!!Knife!!Blunt Machete!!Machete!!Gold Coin!!GPS Unit!!Rifle, Empty!!Rifle, Partially!!Rifle, Fully!!Class!!Location & Notes
|-
| [[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:32, 26 April 2006 (BST) || 68 || 47 || 6 || (4) || 2 || 1 || 0 || 3 || 0 || 6 || 0 || 0 || 0 || 0 || 2 || Settler || York

|-
| sig || ap || - || - || - || - || - || - || - || - || - || - || - || - || - || - ||class ||location

|- style="background-color:PaleTurquoise"
|'''Total:''' 19:52, 31 May 2006 (BST) || 394 || 245 || 43 || 39 b in 12 boxes || 23 || 6 || 4 || 18 || 6 || 14 || 5 || 1 || 6 || 6 || 5 || n/a || '''Total'''
|}

A brief summary of the arguments for placing numbers of items in columns rather than using a comma-separated list of items.

*1. Avoids spelling errors (typos in piece of driftwood, etc.)
*2. Avoids notational conflicts
::a. Capitalisation inconsistencies (hut, first aid kit, gps unit, etc.)
::b. Pluralisation inconsistencies (herbs, darts, bullets, bundles, etc.)
::c. Abbreviation inconsistencies (FAK, bundle / bundle darts / bundle of darts, bottle water, driftwood, etc.)
::d. Box/load notation inconsistencies (bundle of 2 darts / bundle darts (2), partially loaded rifle / rifle (1) / rifle(1), etc.)
*3. Easy to use (Ultimately, searchers would rather type "13" under a Mangos column instead of "mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango" -- as evidenced by frequent use of "13 mangos" and "Mangos: 13" entries.)
*4. Less prone to human error in data entry (Comma-separated lists are easy to cut/paste incorrectly and errors aren't easy to spot. Since the searcher mentally tokenizes the info as "13 first aid kits" it is easy to visually verify the table -- an error shows up as "31 first aid kits" or "13 gps units" and is more likely to be caught by the searcher.)
*5. Allows a current running total of the most important search values (Casual visitors can eyeball the raw data to obtain an accurate sense of the search odds -- it is immediately apparent which items are available and roughly how frequently they are found.)
*6. Can be easily cut/pasted into spreadsheets such as Excel (For an entirely automated process, tables would require separate scripts for each location. Generally speaking, however, the data is straightforward to transcribe under either recording method.)
*7. Demonstrated to work in Urban Dead (And Shartak's similarities are more important than differences imho: players are very interested in a few specialized locations including Medical Huts, Ammo Huts, Ruins Huts, much like Hospitals and Malls.)

In my opinion, I would like to migrate Ammo Hut, Armoury, Dart Hut, Medical Hut, Large Cabin, Herbal Hut, Galley, Hold, Tree, Hut, Beach, Grassland, Swamp, and Water to individual tables. Exterior variable-density locations, specifically open Jungle and outdoor Village (with or without Hut, Shaman, etc.), would be the last to migrate, since they are the best suited to using comma-separated lists: (1) very large variety of very low probability items combined with (2) ancillary variables (density, presence of hut, shaman, signpost, etc.) to track.

Please add your comments, suggestions, votes, etc., about using number columns ([[Search Odds]]) versus comma-separated text listing ([[Search Odds Condensed]]):
----
===Comments===
I like it, with one slight change: the format for bullet boxes and dart bundles should be "2 (5)", meaning 2 boxes holding a total of 5 bullets; likewise, the totals column would read something like "8 (31)", meaning 8 total boxes and 31 total bullets inside them. (Whether or not boxes/bundles are more likely to have a certain number of bullets/darts inside, such as 5, is irrelevant. Averages are what people care about.) Also, we should make sure the item columns are sorted (probably alphabetically: "bottle of beer", "bottle of water", "box of bullets", "bullet", etc.). — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 21:48, 31 May 2006 (BST)
:I also agree that all we need are the number of "box" finds, and the total number of bullets contained inside all boxes: "31 in 8" or "(31) 8" or "8 (31)". A concern is that someone who has never recorded and finds 2 boxes of 6 bullets each doesn't write: "2 (6)" or "6 6" by mistake. Similarly, it should be impossible to mistake whether or not to add loose (boxless) bullets into the total bullet find count. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 00:42, 1 June 2006 (BST)
::I see how notation could be a problem. A couple of bold notices will be all we can do; we need box ''and'' bullet counts until we know how many bullets are in each box, on average. (My guess is 5.) — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 04:17, 1 June 2006 (BST)
:As far as order of item columns, I find that decreasing find frequency is the most visually appealing, and decreasing item value is the most visually informative. However I believe that simple alphabetical is a smarter overall choice, since it is universally applicable and expected. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 00:42, 1 June 2006 (BST)
::Most contributors will probably be adding information to multiple tables over time, so the sort method that would make contributions easiest would be alphabetical. That would also let people looking at the tables find an item in a split-second without having to read more than a couple of headers or think about whether an item is common or not in the given terrain type or location. And sorting by find frequency would require occasional column swaps, distracting contributors and frequent viewers alike. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 04:17, 1 June 2006 (BST)
::Tables are better for the reasons you mentioned, so I'm going to start putting all of the data on the page in tables. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 06:28, 7 June 2006 (BST)
Spreadsheet use (and writing a script to convert the lists to table format) will be easiest if boxes of bullets and bundles of darts are either placed in separate columns (which gives additional (if pointless) detail at the cost of even more horizontal screen space) or are poured into the bullet and dart columns (e.g., finding a 2 bullets and a box of 5 bullets will show up on the table as a find of 7 bullets). I recommend the latter option, since there's nothing special about finding bullets in a box. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 03:46, 8 June 2006 (BST)
:Yes, there is something special about finding bullets in a box: we need to know the number of boxes vs loose bullets found in order to statistically analyze the effects of Scavenging, to compare Empty Huts to Resource Huts, and so forth. Boxes should be kept separate from Loose Bullets. I support two columns: "Bullets found in Boxes (total # bullets)" and "Boxes Found (total # boxes)", in addition to "Loose Bullets". The number of bullets in any particular box is immaterial (like you said earlier). (For example, a hut that generated 10% Box 8 Bullets would be different from a hut that generated 80% Rifle Bullet, especially for a character with 69 items in inventory.) --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 08:42, 8 June 2006 (BST)

----

==Earlier Comments==

===Collating===
There is simply not a whole lot of interest in compiling these statistics, so I am not planning on collating at a set time anymore, but when there is a feeling that there is "enough" data.

If you have any comments feel free to leave them here or on my talk page -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 12:12, 10 April 2006 (BST)

===Class column===
is there a feeling that the odds are different for each class of character? I understand with scavenging, but that could be fixed with a note.. I seem to have missed that the character type is needed to be tracked? The reason I don't necessarily want to add it is that it makes collating the results an exponential job meaning a search odd for d1 for native shaman, d2 ..etc.. then d1 native warrior.. ->oo (to infinity :) ).. that makes the need for *puts finger in the air wihtout looking at the numbers* hundereds of charts which becomes not useful, particularly with the lack of data received!? If I don't hear something more from you on this, I will revert that change you made adding classes. (copied this on your(tycho44) discussion page.. feel free to contact me here or on my talk page to discuss) thanks -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 15:35, 26 April 2006 (BST)
*Yes, there is such a feeling. Someone said the scientist/shaman had a higher search rate -- without any supporting evidence, but we have no evidence against either. There were complaints & suggestions that the villager/settler was dominated by other character types, and should start with some advantage such as a higher search rate. By and large Simon appears to be implementing changes behind the scenes as fast as we can suggest them, so it is natural to suspect that starting Settler-0 has a higher search rate than Soldier, Pirate, et al. Currently my Settler finds are nearly 50% in buildings, which I believe is higher than for other classes. But we need to log the searches, because I could easily have gotten lucky. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 17:53, 27 April 2006 (BST)
:*'''KEEP'''--One of the main objectives of this 'condensed' version was to encourage data entry. That thought alone is what really drives my desire not to include another column as it is another place for people to possibly screw up or feel it is too difficult. Now, if it is needed as you say, then of course, leave it in, hence the "keep". For some background on what I have put together here.. I was aiming at a single table so one wouldn't have to hunt around for the right table for their specific data. A place to put any and all data and always in the same form, letting computers do the inane sorting later. I did some testing streamlining the table to try to make it as simple as I could for wiki data entry. Again, all of that was to encourage people to add data. Sadly, there is very little data added anyway.. even with it being on the front page for quite a long time now. The tables are saved as html and imported into excel and collated (for the most part) automatically into the graphs. If/when there was more interest I was planning to ask if the wiki could get a timeline plugin installed [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/EasyTimeline] I have worked a little bit on a preliminary version of an automatic graph maker for wiki sorted from the shartak data. It would remove the need for making the lame process of screenshot, cropping, import.. with this installed on the shartak wiki it would be a simple cut and paste of text directly into the wiki creating bar graphs automatically, and saving lots of time. -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 01:04, 28 April 2006 (BST)
*To be clear, collating the data when the class info is there isn't more difficult - if you don't think it makes a difference, then collapse across those columns in your aggregate summaries. I'd be glad to help out with data collection and analysis. (also posted to your talk page) --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 17:53, 27 April 2006 (BST)
:*As to collapsing, that isn't the issue, it is as I discuss above it is more the streamlining and simplification .. anyway, one can simply ignore the data as you say. Although it does become more of an issue later in that finding trends becomes just that much more complicated as the degrees of freedom increases. Based on my current experience and the quickly increasing number of variables in the mix, I think the data needs to be in a real database, not excel as it currently resides. Nonetheless, if you feel you want to work with this further, please do. Let me know what parts you want to do, if not all of it .. if we are both doing the same thing, I will feel as if work has been wasted which could be spent on something else for the common good. My time is limited at the moment as the lack of data has allowed me to reprioritize away from this project a bit. -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 01:04, 28 April 2006 (BST)
::*Another important thing to keep in mind: the Scavenging ability (and character class in general) probably only affects the chance of a successful item find -- it probably doesn't affect the distribution profile among different items. For example, if Scavenging gives a +50% chance of finding something in an Ammo Hut, then 20 AP of Scavenging will yield the same information as 30 AP of normal searches. Analysis gets simpler rather than more complex... --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 07:16, 16 May 2006 (BST)

===Larger sample sizes===
Perhaps 30 AP spent searching minimum? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 18:17, 27 April 2006 (BST)
: '''KILL'''-- I don't think a minimum is a good idea. A search of 1AP is as valuable in the overall statistics as each AP of a search consisting of 2000AP. For data collation it makes no difference, the more data the better! So if someone wants to include a search of 1AP I say let them! :) -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 01:04, 28 April 2006 (BST)
:: Fine :P It should be noted that statistics was never my strong suit. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:16, 28 April 2006 (BST)
::: Every little bit helps. However, when possible, people should plan in advance to log the search results. If the submitter is only half-hearted, then they might say to themselves after-the-fact: "Hey cool, 7 rifles in 10 searches!" or "Hey cool, a heavy sword!" and rush off to contribute to the wiki, whereas their less interesting search events don't get submitted. This isn't good: If someone only contributes on days when their search outcome is exciting or aberrant, then the data gets messed up. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 10:50, 30 April 2006 (BST)

===Terrain tags===
The page is not entirely clear as to how to tag village terrain, disheveled huts, empty huts, ruins, oases, etc. I think this needs a clear key at the top of the page. Also, perhaps just let people copy and paste the description from their location, and then replace it with an appropriate code? I'd be happy to go through entered results and replace word/sentence terrain descriptions with specific codes if that makes your data processing easier. --[[User:Rotund|Rotund]] 08:17, 5 May 2006 (EST)
:I agree that copy/paste from the location description is probably the easiest way for a new searcher (unfamiliar with the lingo and the density overlay) to add in their location. Putting someone in charge of doing a global edit to unify entry codes would also be good. Oddball additional information that someone puts in their location column or class column can be appended to the NOTES column instead, where presumably the automated readers won't have problems with it. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 18:12, 15 May 2006 (BST)
::The three-letter codes for the character class seem needlessly confusing too. Plus there's alot of empty space in that column. So if anyone doesn't mind I'll go through and change all of them to "Soldier", "Shaman", "Settler w/o Scavenging" etc. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 01:54, 18 May 2006 (BST)
:::That would work for me. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 02:32, 18 May 2006 (BST)

From my experience, Jungle (d3), York (d3), and Dalpok (d3) searches are each going to have different search profiles, whereas Jungle (d3) and Jungle (d4) are likely to be the same. Here would be my first draft for Location Designators:

====Jungle Terrain Designators====
* d3 Jungle: empty Jungle space
* d2 Native Empty: empty space in a Native Village
* d5 Native Hut: outside a Hut in a Native Village
* d3 Outsider Empty: empty space in Outsider Village
* d0 Outsider Hut: outside a Hut in an Outsider Village
* d2 Ruins: outside Ruins icon (Hut 1/Hut 2/Hut 3 buttons) (assumes Ruins are always in the Jungle)
* d4 Jungle Hut: outside a Hut in the Jungle
* d1 Tree: (assumes Trees are always in the Jungle - or "d4 Jungle Tree")

====Hut Designators====
When inside a Hut, there is no Jungle density, but we need a description of which hut you are in... Here are some examples:
* in Hut, Empty Outsider
* in Hut, Dishevelled Native
* in Hut, Empty Jungle
* in Hut, Ruins #2
* in Hut, Temple Ruins #2
Wherever possible, we should put the GPS in the Notes column! (I was using the "in Hut" notation just to keep from confusion with searches outside of Huts.)

====Uberhut Designators====
* Ammo Hut: in Outsider Ammo Hut
* Medical Hut: in Outsider Medical Hut
* Dart Hut: in Native Dart Hut
* Healing Hut: in Native Healing Hut
* Trading Hut: in any Trading Hut (they're all empty)
* Large Cabin: in Shipwreck medical hut
* Armoury: in Shipwreck ammo hut
* Hold: in Shipwreck treasure horde
* Galley: in Shipwreck rum stockpile

====Non-Jungle Terrain Designators====
* Grasslands
* Beach
* Swamp
* Water
* Deep Water
* Mountain Path
* Cave
* Tunnel

Those would be my suggestions for the Location column. Other locations could be fully designated using a similar style. It is pretty complicated: locations may have a Jungle density, terrain name, detail name, an Outsider/Native designator, and a sub-detail (such as Empty or Dishevelled for the Huts). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 02:32, 18 May 2006 (BST)

==New style==
Well I'm hopelessly confused now. Wasn't the original idea to put all the data into tables on the other page, [[Search Odds]]? And to keep it simple here so that people could add search data with ease. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 09:42, 8 June 2006 (BST)
:I'm sorry you're confused. Did you see the new [[Search odds condensed#Search template|template]]? You should be able to copy and paste it without much trouble, but it may be harder than I think (since I made it). — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 10:15, 8 June 2006 (BST)
::The new style is good, but why not use this new style on Search Odds, as a final polished presentation of results for analysis, and go back to the old easier style for data entry on this page. I thought this page was just for dumping data and not the final search odds page anyway, so the goal here should by simplicity for entering data, not the best possible presentation of results, that should be on Search Odds. Anyone else agree? [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 18:00, 14 June 2006 (BST)


|-
| style="font-size:75%;line-height: 1em " | [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 09:42, 8 June 2006 (BST)
| | Soldier
| | Ammunition Hut
| | 65
| | 21 Successful searches (26 items) '''Items List:''' 3 box of 2 bullets, 2 bottle of water, 2 bottle of beer, 2 blunt machete, 3 sharp stone, 1 rifle bullet, 1 machete, 2 gold coin, 3 gps unit, 1 knife, 1 rifle (2) (Total bullets found: 9)
| | 32.3% success rate (40% item find rate), 13.9% bullet find rate (i.e., in 10 searches I could count on getting 1.4 bullets)

|-
| style="font-size:75%;line-height: 1em " | [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 09:42, 8 June 2006 (BST)
| | Scientist
| | Hut #1 at Ruins
| | 100
| | 4 healing herbs, 2 gold coins
| |

|-
| style="font-size:75%;line-height: 1em " | [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 09:42, 8 June 2006 (BST)
| | Settler w/Scavenging
| | Ammunition Hut
| | 75
| | 42 successful searches (56 items) '''Items List:''' 6 gold coin, 3 rifle (1), 3 rifle (2), 3 bottle of water, 14 rifle bullet, 1 box of bullets (2), 3 gps unit, 2 boxes of bullets (4), 1 blunt machete, 1 rifle (0), 1 box of bullets (5), 1 knife, 1 bottle beer, 2 sharp stone. (Total bullets found: 38)
| | 56% success rate (74.6% item find rate), 50.7% bullet find rate (i.e., in 10 searches I could count on getting 5 bullets)
|} </nowiki>-->

Talk:Search odds condensed

2006-06-14T17:00:29Z

Arminius: /* New style */

==Separate Tables (Columns of Numbers) vs Condensed (Comma-separated Text List)==

Perhaps I'm just tired of having to type:
:poison dart, bundle of darts (5), bundle of darts (5), bundle of darts (7), healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, machete, machete, machete, machete, empty blowpipe (0), empty blowpipe (0), empty blowpipe (0), knife, knife, knife, blunt machete, blunt machete, sharpening stone,
but I would like to switch to Tables for Search Odds, with a table for each important location. The tables would look similar to the following example.
====Ammo Hut Searches:====
{| border=1 cellpadding=2 style="text-align:center; background-color:WhiteSmoke; border: solid 1px DimGray; border-collapse:collapse" |
|- style="background-color:LightGray; font-size:90%"
!Signature!!AP!!Nothing!!Bullet!!Box Bullets!!Bottle Water!!Bottle Beer!!Sharp Stone!!Knife!!Blunt Machete!!Machete!!Gold Coin!!GPS Unit!!Rifle, Empty!!Rifle, Partially!!Rifle, Fully!!Class!!Location & Notes
|-
| [[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:32, 26 April 2006 (BST) || 68 || 47 || 6 || (4) || 2 || 1 || 0 || 3 || 0 || 6 || 0 || 0 || 0 || 0 || 2 || Settler || York

|-
| sig || ap || - || - || - || - || - || - || - || - || - || - || - || - || - || - ||class ||location

|- style="background-color:PaleTurquoise"
|'''Total:''' 19:52, 31 May 2006 (BST) || 394 || 245 || 43 || 39 b in 12 boxes || 23 || 6 || 4 || 18 || 6 || 14 || 5 || 1 || 6 || 6 || 5 || n/a || '''Total'''
|}

A brief summary of the arguments for placing numbers of items in columns rather than using a comma-separated list of items.

*1. Avoids spelling errors (typos in piece of driftwood, etc.)
*2. Avoids notational conflicts
::a. Capitalisation inconsistencies (hut, first aid kit, gps unit, etc.)
::b. Pluralisation inconsistencies (herbs, darts, bullets, bundles, etc.)
::c. Abbreviation inconsistencies (FAK, bundle / bundle darts / bundle of darts, bottle water, driftwood, etc.)
::d. Box/load notation inconsistencies (bundle of 2 darts / bundle darts (2), partially loaded rifle / rifle (1) / rifle(1), etc.)
*3. Easy to use (Ultimately, searchers would rather type "13" under a Mangos column instead of "mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango" -- as evidenced by frequent use of "13 mangos" and "Mangos: 13" entries.)
*4. Less prone to human error in data entry (Comma-separated lists are easy to cut/paste incorrectly and errors aren't easy to spot. Since the searcher mentally tokenizes the info as "13 first aid kits" it is easy to visually verify the table -- an error shows up as "31 first aid kits" or "13 gps units" and is more likely to be caught by the searcher.)
*5. Allows a current running total of the most important search values (Casual visitors can eyeball the raw data to obtain an accurate sense of the search odds -- it is immediately apparent which items are available and roughly how frequently they are found.)
*6. Can be easily cut/pasted into spreadsheets such as Excel (For an entirely automated process, tables would require separate scripts for each location. Generally speaking, however, the data is straightforward to transcribe under either recording method.)
*7. Demonstrated to work in Urban Dead (And Shartak's similarities are more important than differences imho: players are very interested in a few specialized locations including Medical Huts, Ammo Huts, Ruins Huts, much like Hospitals and Malls.)

In my opinion, I would like to migrate Ammo Hut, Armoury, Dart Hut, Medical Hut, Large Cabin, Herbal Hut, Galley, Hold, Tree, Hut, Beach, Grassland, Swamp, and Water to individual tables. Exterior variable-density locations, specifically open Jungle and outdoor Village (with or without Hut, Shaman, etc.), would be the last to migrate, since they are the best suited to using comma-separated lists: (1) very large variety of very low probability items combined with (2) ancillary variables (density, presence of hut, shaman, signpost, etc.) to track.

Please add your comments, suggestions, votes, etc., about using number columns ([[Search Odds]]) versus comma-separated text listing ([[Search Odds Condensed]]):
----
===Comments===
I like it, with one slight change: the format for bullet boxes and dart bundles should be "2 (5)", meaning 2 boxes holding a total of 5 bullets; likewise, the totals column would read something like "8 (31)", meaning 8 total boxes and 31 total bullets inside them. (Whether or not boxes/bundles are more likely to have a certain number of bullets/darts inside, such as 5, is irrelevant. Averages are what people care about.) Also, we should make sure the item columns are sorted (probably alphabetically: "bottle of beer", "bottle of water", "box of bullets", "bullet", etc.). — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 21:48, 31 May 2006 (BST)
:I also agree that all we need are the number of "box" finds, and the total number of bullets contained inside all boxes: "31 in 8" or "(31) 8" or "8 (31)". A concern is that someone who has never recorded and finds 2 boxes of 6 bullets each doesn't write: "2 (6)" or "6 6" by mistake. Similarly, it should be impossible to mistake whether or not to add loose (boxless) bullets into the total bullet find count. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 00:42, 1 June 2006 (BST)
::I see how notation could be a problem. A couple of bold notices will be all we can do; we need box ''and'' bullet counts until we know how many bullets are in each box, on average. (My guess is 5.) — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 04:17, 1 June 2006 (BST)
:As far as order of item columns, I find that decreasing find frequency is the most visually appealing, and decreasing item value is the most visually informative. However I believe that simple alphabetical is a smarter overall choice, since it is universally applicable and expected. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 00:42, 1 June 2006 (BST)
::Most contributors will probably be adding information to multiple tables over time, so the sort method that would make contributions easiest would be alphabetical. That would also let people looking at the tables find an item in a split-second without having to read more than a couple of headers or think about whether an item is common or not in the given terrain type or location. And sorting by find frequency would require occasional column swaps, distracting contributors and frequent viewers alike. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 04:17, 1 June 2006 (BST)
::Tables are better for the reasons you mentioned, so I'm going to start putting all of the data on the page in tables. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 06:28, 7 June 2006 (BST)
Spreadsheet use (and writing a script to convert the lists to table format) will be easiest if boxes of bullets and bundles of darts are either placed in separate columns (which gives additional (if pointless) detail at the cost of even more horizontal screen space) or are poured into the bullet and dart columns (e.g., finding a 2 bullets and a box of 5 bullets will show up on the table as a find of 7 bullets). I recommend the latter option, since there's nothing special about finding bullets in a box. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 03:46, 8 June 2006 (BST)
:Yes, there is something special about finding bullets in a box: we need to know the number of boxes vs loose bullets found in order to statistically analyze the effects of Scavenging, to compare Empty Huts to Resource Huts, and so forth. Boxes should be kept separate from Loose Bullets. I support two columns: "Bullets found in Boxes (total # bullets)" and "Boxes Found (total # boxes)", in addition to "Loose Bullets". The number of bullets in any particular box is immaterial (like you said earlier). (For example, a hut that generated 10% Box 8 Bullets would be different from a hut that generated 80% Rifle Bullet, especially for a character with 69 items in inventory.) --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 08:42, 8 June 2006 (BST)

----

==Earlier Comments==

===Collating===
There is simply not a whole lot of interest in compiling these statistics, so I am not planning on collating at a set time anymore, but when there is a feeling that there is "enough" data.

If you have any comments feel free to leave them here or on my talk page -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 12:12, 10 April 2006 (BST)

===Class column===
is there a feeling that the odds are different for each class of character? I understand with scavenging, but that could be fixed with a note.. I seem to have missed that the character type is needed to be tracked? The reason I don't necessarily want to add it is that it makes collating the results an exponential job meaning a search odd for d1 for native shaman, d2 ..etc.. then d1 native warrior.. ->oo (to infinity :) ).. that makes the need for *puts finger in the air wihtout looking at the numbers* hundereds of charts which becomes not useful, particularly with the lack of data received!? If I don't hear something more from you on this, I will revert that change you made adding classes. (copied this on your(tycho44) discussion page.. feel free to contact me here or on my talk page to discuss) thanks -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 15:35, 26 April 2006 (BST)
*Yes, there is such a feeling. Someone said the scientist/shaman had a higher search rate -- without any supporting evidence, but we have no evidence against either. There were complaints & suggestions that the villager/settler was dominated by other character types, and should start with some advantage such as a higher search rate. By and large Simon appears to be implementing changes behind the scenes as fast as we can suggest them, so it is natural to suspect that starting Settler-0 has a higher search rate than Soldier, Pirate, et al. Currently my Settler finds are nearly 50% in buildings, which I believe is higher than for other classes. But we need to log the searches, because I could easily have gotten lucky. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 17:53, 27 April 2006 (BST)
:*'''KEEP'''--One of the main objectives of this 'condensed' version was to encourage data entry. That thought alone is what really drives my desire not to include another column as it is another place for people to possibly screw up or feel it is too difficult. Now, if it is needed as you say, then of course, leave it in, hence the "keep". For some background on what I have put together here.. I was aiming at a single table so one wouldn't have to hunt around for the right table for their specific data. A place to put any and all data and always in the same form, letting computers do the inane sorting later. I did some testing streamlining the table to try to make it as simple as I could for wiki data entry. Again, all of that was to encourage people to add data. Sadly, there is very little data added anyway.. even with it being on the front page for quite a long time now. The tables are saved as html and imported into excel and collated (for the most part) automatically into the graphs. If/when there was more interest I was planning to ask if the wiki could get a timeline plugin installed [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/EasyTimeline] I have worked a little bit on a preliminary version of an automatic graph maker for wiki sorted from the shartak data. It would remove the need for making the lame process of screenshot, cropping, import.. with this installed on the shartak wiki it would be a simple cut and paste of text directly into the wiki creating bar graphs automatically, and saving lots of time. -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 01:04, 28 April 2006 (BST)
*To be clear, collating the data when the class info is there isn't more difficult - if you don't think it makes a difference, then collapse across those columns in your aggregate summaries. I'd be glad to help out with data collection and analysis. (also posted to your talk page) --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 17:53, 27 April 2006 (BST)
:*As to collapsing, that isn't the issue, it is as I discuss above it is more the streamlining and simplification .. anyway, one can simply ignore the data as you say. Although it does become more of an issue later in that finding trends becomes just that much more complicated as the degrees of freedom increases. Based on my current experience and the quickly increasing number of variables in the mix, I think the data needs to be in a real database, not excel as it currently resides. Nonetheless, if you feel you want to work with this further, please do. Let me know what parts you want to do, if not all of it .. if we are both doing the same thing, I will feel as if work has been wasted which could be spent on something else for the common good. My time is limited at the moment as the lack of data has allowed me to reprioritize away from this project a bit. -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 01:04, 28 April 2006 (BST)
::*Another important thing to keep in mind: the Scavenging ability (and character class in general) probably only affects the chance of a successful item find -- it probably doesn't affect the distribution profile among different items. For example, if Scavenging gives a +50% chance of finding something in an Ammo Hut, then 20 AP of Scavenging will yield the same information as 30 AP of normal searches. Analysis gets simpler rather than more complex... --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 07:16, 16 May 2006 (BST)

===Larger sample sizes===
Perhaps 30 AP spent searching minimum? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 18:17, 27 April 2006 (BST)
: '''KILL'''-- I don't think a minimum is a good idea. A search of 1AP is as valuable in the overall statistics as each AP of a search consisting of 2000AP. For data collation it makes no difference, the more data the better! So if someone wants to include a search of 1AP I say let them! :) -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 01:04, 28 April 2006 (BST)
:: Fine :P It should be noted that statistics was never my strong suit. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:16, 28 April 2006 (BST)
::: Every little bit helps. However, when possible, people should plan in advance to log the search results. If the submitter is only half-hearted, then they might say to themselves after-the-fact: "Hey cool, 7 rifles in 10 searches!" or "Hey cool, a heavy sword!" and rush off to contribute to the wiki, whereas their less interesting search events don't get submitted. This isn't good: If someone only contributes on days when their search outcome is exciting or aberrant, then the data gets messed up. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 10:50, 30 April 2006 (BST)

===Terrain tags===
The page is not entirely clear as to how to tag village terrain, disheveled huts, empty huts, ruins, oases, etc. I think this needs a clear key at the top of the page. Also, perhaps just let people copy and paste the description from their location, and then replace it with an appropriate code? I'd be happy to go through entered results and replace word/sentence terrain descriptions with specific codes if that makes your data processing easier. --[[User:Rotund|Rotund]] 08:17, 5 May 2006 (EST)
:I agree that copy/paste from the location description is probably the easiest way for a new searcher (unfamiliar with the lingo and the density overlay) to add in their location. Putting someone in charge of doing a global edit to unify entry codes would also be good. Oddball additional information that someone puts in their location column or class column can be appended to the NOTES column instead, where presumably the automated readers won't have problems with it. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 18:12, 15 May 2006 (BST)
::The three-letter codes for the character class seem needlessly confusing too. Plus there's alot of empty space in that column. So if anyone doesn't mind I'll go through and change all of them to "Soldier", "Shaman", "Settler w/o Scavenging" etc. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 01:54, 18 May 2006 (BST)
:::That would work for me. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 02:32, 18 May 2006 (BST)

From my experience, Jungle (d3), York (d3), and Dalpok (d3) searches are each going to have different search profiles, whereas Jungle (d3) and Jungle (d4) are likely to be the same. Here would be my first draft for Location Designators:

====Jungle Terrain Designators====
* d3 Jungle: empty Jungle space
* d2 Native Empty: empty space in a Native Village
* d5 Native Hut: outside a Hut in a Native Village
* d3 Outsider Empty: empty space in Outsider Village
* d0 Outsider Hut: outside a Hut in an Outsider Village
* d2 Ruins: outside Ruins icon (Hut 1/Hut 2/Hut 3 buttons) (assumes Ruins are always in the Jungle)
* d4 Jungle Hut: outside a Hut in the Jungle
* d1 Tree: (assumes Trees are always in the Jungle - or "d4 Jungle Tree")

====Hut Designators====
When inside a Hut, there is no Jungle density, but we need a description of which hut you are in... Here are some examples:
* in Hut, Empty Outsider
* in Hut, Dishevelled Native
* in Hut, Empty Jungle
* in Hut, Ruins #2
* in Hut, Temple Ruins #2
Wherever possible, we should put the GPS in the Notes column! (I was using the "in Hut" notation just to keep from confusion with searches outside of Huts.)

====Uberhut Designators====
* Ammo Hut: in Outsider Ammo Hut
* Medical Hut: in Outsider Medical Hut
* Dart Hut: in Native Dart Hut
* Healing Hut: in Native Healing Hut
* Trading Hut: in any Trading Hut (they're all empty)
* Large Cabin: in Shipwreck medical hut
* Armoury: in Shipwreck ammo hut
* Hold: in Shipwreck treasure horde
* Galley: in Shipwreck rum stockpile

====Non-Jungle Terrain Designators====
* Grasslands
* Beach
* Swamp
* Water
* Deep Water
* Mountain Path
* Cave
* Tunnel

Those would be my suggestions for the Location column. Other locations could be fully designated using a similar style. It is pretty complicated: locations may have a Jungle density, terrain name, detail name, an Outsider/Native designator, and a sub-detail (such as Empty or Dishevelled for the Huts). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 02:32, 18 May 2006 (BST)

==New style==
Well I'm hopelessly confused now. Wasn't the original idea to put all the data into tables on the other page, [[Search Odds]]? And to keep it simple here so that people could add search data with ease. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 09:42, 8 June 2006 (BST)
:I'm sorry you're confused. Did you see the new [[Search odds condensed#Search template|template]]? You should be able to copy and paste it without much trouble, but it may be harder than I think (since I made it). — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 10:15, 8 June 2006 (BST)
::The new style is good, but why not use this new style on Search Odds, as a final polished presentation of results for analysis, and go back to the old easier style for data entry on this page. I thought this page was just for dumping data and not the final search odds page anyway, so the goal here should by simplicity for entering data, not the besdt possbiel presentation of results, that should be on Search Odds. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 18:00, 14 June 2006 (BST)


|-
| style="font-size:75%;line-height: 1em " | [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 09:42, 8 June 2006 (BST)
| | Soldier
| | Ammunition Hut
| | 65
| | 21 Successful searches (26 items) '''Items List:''' 3 box of 2 bullets, 2 bottle of water, 2 bottle of beer, 2 blunt machete, 3 sharp stone, 1 rifle bullet, 1 machete, 2 gold coin, 3 gps unit, 1 knife, 1 rifle (2) (Total bullets found: 9)
| | 32.3% success rate (40% item find rate), 13.9% bullet find rate (i.e., in 10 searches I could count on getting 1.4 bullets)

|-
| style="font-size:75%;line-height: 1em " | [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 09:42, 8 June 2006 (BST)
| | Scientist
| | Hut #1 at Ruins
| | 100
| | 4 healing herbs, 2 gold coins
| |

|-
| style="font-size:75%;line-height: 1em " | [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 09:42, 8 June 2006 (BST)
| | Settler w/Scavenging
| | Ammunition Hut
| | 75
| | 42 successful searches (56 items) '''Items List:''' 6 gold coin, 3 rifle (1), 3 rifle (2), 3 bottle of water, 14 rifle bullet, 1 box of bullets (2), 3 gps unit, 2 boxes of bullets (4), 1 blunt machete, 1 rifle (0), 1 box of bullets (5), 1 knife, 1 bottle beer, 2 sharp stone. (Total bullets found: 38)
| | 56% success rate (74.6% item find rate), 50.7% bullet find rate (i.e., in 10 searches I could count on getting 5 bullets)
|} </nowiki>-->

Skulu

2006-06-14T16:52:53Z

Arminius:

<noinclude>
'''Skulu''' is a wandering [[shaman]] with no ties to any village.

==Current sighting==


* </noinclude>{{GPS|70|576|26|367}} 17:52, 14 June 2006 (BST)<noinclude>

==Previous sightings==


* {{GPS|70|607|26|373}} 00:56, 28 May 2006 (BST)

{{Shamansnav}}

[[Category:Shamans]]</noinclude>

Bugs

2006-06-14T16:47:50Z

Arminius: /* AP in 37 Minutes */

This page is for adding reports of possible bugs. Once the bug has been confirmed, it can be moved into the Known Bugs section.

Before reporting a bug, you might want to check [[Bugs:Not|Not Bugs]] just in case it's actually not a bug.

Bugs that have been resolved and older than a week, can be found at [[Bugs:Fixed]].

== Example ==

Use a simple, sensible bug title. Provide information about your browser, operating system, character class, and location terrain if necessary.

To use the template, enter the following, but replace '''emboldened text''' with text appropriate to your bug report:

<nowiki>===</nowiki>'''Bug Title'''<nowiki>===</nowiki>
<nowiki>{{bugreport</nowiki>|
bug_time=<nowiki>~~~~~</nowiki>|
bug_author=<nowiki>~~~</nowiki>|
bug_status='''new / fixed / not a bug'''|
bug_severity='''low / med / high / critical'''|
bug_description='''Full description. Check spelling and be descriptive.'''|
bug_comments=

'''Comment here'''

}}

{| cellpadding=10 align=right
| __TOC__
|}

== Possible Bugs ==

=== Not able to attack animals ===
I'm at [-70.358,+26.343. There's a large deer here yet I don't have the option of attacking it. For some reason it's giving me the option of speaking to it. Says "Jungle
A number of small trees here aren't that much taller than the heavy undergrowth." --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:00, 19 March 2006 (GMT)
*Never mind. I travelled a few squares then came back and it gave me the attack option.--[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:02, 19 March 2006 (GMT)
* Very odd, never heard of that happening before. Bugs like this would be pretty much impossible to track down unless I'm able to check the database at the time at which it happens. If it happens again, you could try letting me know over instant messaging before you move. Contact info on my user page. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 09:35, 19 March 2006 (GMT)
----

===Banshee Wail village annihilation===
Not sure if this is a bug, or perhaps just bad luck, but for the past several days in York, the Pirate Ship, and Dalpok, every time I log back in to Shartak I have a screenful (or 3) of Banshee Wails, have lost a bunch of hit points, and have seen others around me keel over dead. From the timestamps it looks like you can send out 5 Wails per minute; sometimes I see 50 Wails in a row. None of my characters have Sixth Sense, so I don't know how many wailers are around -- maybe some new people are just testing the skill? If people are harvesting XP in a crowded village, though, it's probably not going to stop, and in fact will get far worse as more than just a handful of players learn how to wail. (Are the villages becoming ghost towns?) Thanks! --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 16:59, 30 April 2006 (BST)

:Logged on again, found another example:

<pre>
Since your last move:
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
Archibald turns white as a sheet, and keels over dead. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 12:29)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a haunting scream coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
Frederick turns white as a sheet, and keels over dead. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
bobblehat turns white as a sheet, and keels over dead. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:44)
Sprocket turns white as a sheet, and keels over dead. (2006-04-30 15:44)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you, and lose 4 HP from fear. You die of fright. (2006-04-30 15:45)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-04-30 15:46)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:57)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:57)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:57)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:57)
Brock Sampson turns white as a sheet, and keels over dead. (2006-05-01 05:57)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
You hear a banshee wail coming from all around you. (2006-05-01 05:58)
</pre>

--[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 07:16, 1 May 2006 (BST)

Banshee Wail is a 1AP activity, so you can do 72 every 24 hours. That's extremely nasty. [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 09:41, 1 May 2006 (BST)

* Not unless you're only being heard by 1 person (or unless I've broken the code that calculates AP usage). Perhaps it should be considered an attack similar to using a weapon, and thus have a percentage chance of actually wailing/shrieking? It sounded like a good idea and not too powerful when I was working on it, but maybe my maths was off. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:59, 1 May 2006 (BST)
:* One problem with Ghosting is that it is stealthed and shielded - the wailer is invisible and invulnerable to new players. The most recent two characters that I created started out their lives (deaths) with a massive spam attack of unexplained banshee wails while sleeping in a hut in my own home town. That can't be encouraging for new players joining Shartak, who expect some plausible safety. Usually game mechanics counterbalance invisible strikes by reducing fire-rate and damage, but banshee wail combines invisibility with higher damage and larger area-of-effect. From the outside, it looks like a sniper rifle that autofires grenades. But I don't have the skill, so this is just from my anecdotal experience. In my opinion, banshee wail should not affect the inside of town huts or the shipwreck. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 20:49, 1 May 2006 (BST)
::*That said, shouldn't a spiteful, vengeful spirit be considerably powerful? This is why I am trying to make an [[Talk:Suggestions#Exorcism|Exorcism suggestion]]. I haven't heard enough from the other users yet, though. I've only heard from about two people.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 21:39, 12 May 2006 (BST)
:::*Well, except that every player who dies becomes a spirit, whether or not they are spiteful and vengeful. If the motivation for banshee wail were related to revenance and vengeful dead, one would think that the wail would only harm your killer, or would only be usable by someone murdered in unusual circumstances. That said, current changes seemed to have cleaned up the spamming problem... --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 08:31, 13 May 2006 (BST)
::::*This is actually leading to spirits camping around things like medical and ammo huts with no way for a player to deal with it. This has basicly become a skill that allows you to sit at important places, harvest xp, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. --[[User:Shosuro|Shosuro]]
:Yep, large groups of spirits are still camping certain game locations. Is the new Seance going to allow corporeals to disrupt spirit-campers? --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 04:04, 2 June 2006 (BST)

----

===Machete Trades===
{{bugreport|
bug_time=22:23, 4 June 2006 (BST)|
bug_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
bug_status=new|
bug_severity=low|
bug_description=So I'm at Trader Harry's hut in York and I decide to trade for some bullets. This is what he says:
 
:You ask to trade your blunt machetes for his rifle bullets.
:Trader Harry makes you an offer, "I'll give you three rifle bullets for a blunt machete"

:You ask to trade your machetes for his rifle bullets.
:Trader Harry makes you an offer, "People just don't seem to want to buy machetes so I can't offer full price for yours. I'll give you two rifle bullets for a machete"
 
Now why would I get more bullets for a broken item that's essentially a machete anyways?|
bug_comments=

The trader logic is strictly a supply/demand thing. If a trader doesn't have much of a certain object, it has more value to him, despite the fact that in this case a sharp machete is more useful than a dull one. Not really a bug, IMO, as it will eventually work itself out once the traders start getting a lot of these items that they over-value. No one's going to be buying the dull machetes. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 03:28, 5 June 2006 (BST)
:* But blunt machetes are so much more valuable than sharp machetes. Just consider:
::# If you search in the resource huts, machetes are very common. Everyone carries a machete or three. But who's got a blunt one? Blunt machetes are very scarce. Their rarity makes them precious.
::# If you have a blunt machete, it is very easy for you to make a sharp machete (1AP and a Stone). If you have a sharp machete, it is very difficult to make a blunt machete (1000AP and the jungle). Thousands of trees might be destroyed during the creation process -- potentially an environmental castastrophe. Please, think of the trees! Don't manufacture that blunt machete by yourself, buy it from Trader Harry -- whatever the cost!
::If you like, I'll also explain to you why Bottles of Water are cheaper than Mangos, Bananas, Rum, Beer, even though the Bottles of Water are tremendously more powerful. I'll explain why Blowpipes cost $300, despite the fact that you're more likely to kill someone by eating Tasty Berries than by using a Blowpipe. And I'll explain how traders sneak out while everyone is asleep, and hide their stock in resource huts, for everyone to find again. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 00:51, 9 June 2006 (BST)


}}

===Trekking Broken===
{{bugreport|
bug_time=14:13, 10 June 2006 (BST)|
bug_author=[[User:Vtbassmatt|VTBassMatt]]|
bug_status=retracted/not a bug|
bug_severity=med|
bug_description=Trekking seems to be suddenly broken. When I walk in the jungle, it's always subtracting a full AP instead of the 0.5AP it did yesterday. Within Wiksik limits, though, it's still only taking 0.5AP. Now I'm out of AP, so I can't try venturing back into the jungle.|
bug_comments=

* Depends what density jungle you were trekking through. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 14:39, 10 June 2006 (BST)
:: OK, then not a bug.

}}

===AP in 37 Minutes===
{{bugreport|
bug_time=18:16, 13 June 2006 (BST)|
bug_author=[[User:Vtbassmatt|VTBassMatt]]|
bug_status=new|
bug_severity=med|
bug_description=For some reason, when I ran out of AP, the system told me I would have another in 37 minutes. I was just walking around in a character without trekking, so I don't believe it's a negative or 1/2 AP problem. See [[:Image:37minutes.png|37 minutes screenshot]].|
bug_comments=

I also got a similar message with '22 minutes' on my first day - Ssarl
*For characters without trekking it now costs 2 AP to walk on dense jungle squares like the one you ended your turn on, so if you had 1 AP left just before you moved onto that square, your true AP total would be -1, or 40 minutes to get back up to 1 AP. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 17:47, 14 June 2006 (BST)

}}

Movak

2006-06-08T08:44:46Z

Arminius:

<noinclude>
'''Movak''' is a wandering [[shaman]] with no ties to any village.

==Current sighting==

* </noinclude>{{GPS|70|415|26|360}} 09:44, 8 June 2006 (BST)<noinclude>

==Previous sightings==


* {{GPS|70|431|26|357}} 12:55, 23 May 2006 (BST)
* {{GPS|70|433|26|336}} 00:31, 16 May 2006 (BST)

{{Shamansnav}}

[[Category:Shamans]]</noinclude>

Talk:Search odds condensed

2006-06-08T08:42:01Z

Arminius:

==Separate Tables (Columns of Numbers) vs Condensed (Comma-separated Text List)==

Perhaps I'm just tired of having to type:
:poison dart, bundle of darts (5), bundle of darts (5), bundle of darts (7), healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, healing herbs, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, gold coin, machete, machete, machete, machete, empty blowpipe (0), empty blowpipe (0), empty blowpipe (0), knife, knife, knife, blunt machete, blunt machete, sharpening stone,
but I would like to switch to Tables for Search Odds, with a table for each important location. The tables would look similar to the following example.
====Ammo Hut Searches:====
{| border=1 cellpadding=2 style="text-align:center; background-color:WhiteSmoke; border: solid 1px DimGray; border-collapse:collapse" |
|- style="background-color:LightGray; font-size:90%"
!Signature!!AP!!Nothing!!Bullet!!Box Bullets!!Bottle Water!!Bottle Beer!!Sharp Stone!!Knife!!Blunt Machete!!Machete!!Gold Coin!!GPS Unit!!Rifle, Empty!!Rifle, Partially!!Rifle, Fully!!Class!!Location & Notes
|-
| [[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:32, 26 April 2006 (BST) || 68 || 47 || 6 || (4) || 2 || 1 || 0 || 3 || 0 || 6 || 0 || 0 || 0 || 0 || 2 || Settler || York

|-
| sig || ap || - || - || - || - || - || - || - || - || - || - || - || - || - || - ||class ||location

|- style="background-color:PaleTurquoise"
|'''Total:''' 19:52, 31 May 2006 (BST) || 394 || 245 || 43 || 39 b in 12 boxes || 23 || 6 || 4 || 18 || 6 || 14 || 5 || 1 || 6 || 6 || 5 || n/a || '''Total'''
|}

A brief summary of the arguments for placing numbers of items in columns rather than using a comma-separated list of items.

*1. Avoids spelling errors (typos in piece of driftwood, etc.)
*2. Avoids notational conflicts
::a. Capitalisation inconsistencies (hut, first aid kit, gps unit, etc.)
::b. Pluralisation inconsistencies (herbs, darts, bullets, bundles, etc.)
::c. Abbreviation inconsistencies (FAK, bundle / bundle darts / bundle of darts, bottle water, driftwood, etc.)
::d. Box/load notation inconsistencies (bundle of 2 darts / bundle darts (2), partially loaded rifle / rifle (1) / rifle(1), etc.)
*3. Easy to use (Ultimately, searchers would rather type "13" under a Mangos column instead of "mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango, mango" -- as evidenced by frequent use of "13 mangos" and "Mangos: 13" entries.)
*4. Less prone to human error in data entry (Comma-separated lists are easy to cut/paste incorrectly and errors aren't easy to spot. Since the searcher mentally tokenizes the info as "13 first aid kits" it is easy to visually verify the table -- an error shows up as "31 first aid kits" or "13 gps units" and is more likely to be caught by the searcher.)
*5. Allows a current running total of the most important search values (Casual visitors can eyeball the raw data to obtain an accurate sense of the search odds -- it is immediately apparent which items are available and roughly how frequently they are found.)
*6. Can be easily cut/pasted into spreadsheets such as Excel (For an entirely automated process, tables would require separate scripts for each location. Generally speaking, however, the data is straightforward to transcribe under either recording method.)
*7. Demonstrated to work in Urban Dead (And Shartak's similarities are more important than differences imho: players are very interested in a few specialized locations including Medical Huts, Ammo Huts, Ruins Huts, much like Hospitals and Malls.)

In my opinion, I would like to migrate Ammo Hut, Armoury, Dart Hut, Medical Hut, Large Cabin, Herbal Hut, Galley, Hold, Tree, Hut, Beach, Grassland, Swamp, and Water to individual tables. Exterior variable-density locations, specifically open Jungle and outdoor Village (with or without Hut, Shaman, etc.), would be the last to migrate, since they are the best suited to using comma-separated lists: (1) very large variety of very low probability items combined with (2) ancillary variables (density, presence of hut, shaman, signpost, etc.) to track.

Please add your comments, suggestions, votes, etc., about using number columns ([[Search Odds]]) versus comma-separated text listing ([[Search Odds Condensed]]):
----
===Comments===
I like it, with one slight change: the format for bullet boxes and dart bundles should be "2 (5)", meaning 2 boxes holding a total of 5 bullets; likewise, the totals column would read something like "8 (31)", meaning 8 total boxes and 31 total bullets inside them. (Whether or not boxes/bundles are more likely to have a certain number of bullets/darts inside, such as 5, is irrelevant. Averages are what people care about.) Also, we should make sure the item columns are sorted (probably alphabetically: "bottle of beer", "bottle of water", "box of bullets", "bullet", etc.). — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 21:48, 31 May 2006 (BST)
:I also agree that all we need are the number of "box" finds, and the total number of bullets contained inside all boxes: "31 in 8" or "(31) 8" or "8 (31)". A concern is that someone who has never recorded and finds 2 boxes of 6 bullets each doesn't write: "2 (6)" or "6 6" by mistake. Similarly, it should be impossible to mistake whether or not to add loose (boxless) bullets into the total bullet find count. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 00:42, 1 June 2006 (BST)
::I see how notation could be a problem. A couple of bold notices will be all we can do; we need box ''and'' bullet counts until we know how many bullets are in each box, on average. (My guess is 5.) — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 04:17, 1 June 2006 (BST)
:As far as order of item columns, I find that decreasing find frequency is the most visually appealing, and decreasing item value is the most visually informative. However I believe that simple alphabetical is a smarter overall choice, since it is universally applicable and expected. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 00:42, 1 June 2006 (BST)
::Most contributors will probably be adding information to multiple tables over time, so the sort method that would make contributions easiest would be alphabetical. That would also let people looking at the tables find an item in a split-second without having to read more than a couple of headers or think about whether an item is common or not in the given terrain type or location. And sorting by find frequency would require occasional column swaps, distracting contributors and frequent viewers alike. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 04:17, 1 June 2006 (BST)
::Tables are better for the reasons you mentioned, so I'm going to start putting all of the data on the page in tables. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 06:28, 7 June 2006 (BST)
Spreadsheet use (and writing a script to convert the lists to table format) will be easiest if boxes of bullets and bundles of darts are either placed in separate columns (which gives additional (if pointless) detail at the cost of even more horizontal screen space) or are poured into the bullet and dart columns (e.g., finding a 2 bullets and a box of 5 bullets will show up on the table as a find of 7 bullets). I recommend the latter option, since there's nothing special about finding bullets in a box. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 03:46, 8 June 2006 (BST)
:Yes, there is something special about finding bullets in a box: we need to know the number of boxes vs loose bullets found in order to statistically analyze the effects of Scavenging, to compare Empty Huts to Resource Huts, and so forth. Boxes should be kept separate from Loose Bullets. I support two columns: "Bullets found in Boxes (total # bullets)" and "Boxes Found (total # boxes)", in addition to "Loose Bullets". The number of bullets in any particular box is immaterial (like you said earlier). (For example, a hut that generated 10% Box 8 Bullets would be different from a hut that generated 80% Rifle Bullet, especially for a character with 69 items in inventory.) --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 08:42, 8 June 2006 (BST)

----

==Earlier Comments==

===Collating===
There is simply not a whole lot of interest in compiling these statistics, so I am not planning on collating at a set time anymore, but when there is a feeling that there is "enough" data.

If you have any comments feel free to leave them here or on my talk page -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 12:12, 10 April 2006 (BST)

===Class column===
is there a feeling that the odds are different for each class of character? I understand with scavenging, but that could be fixed with a note.. I seem to have missed that the character type is needed to be tracked? The reason I don't necessarily want to add it is that it makes collating the results an exponential job meaning a search odd for d1 for native shaman, d2 ..etc.. then d1 native warrior.. ->oo (to infinity :) ).. that makes the need for *puts finger in the air wihtout looking at the numbers* hundereds of charts which becomes not useful, particularly with the lack of data received!? If I don't hear something more from you on this, I will revert that change you made adding classes. (copied this on your(tycho44) discussion page.. feel free to contact me here or on my talk page to discuss) thanks -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 15:35, 26 April 2006 (BST)
*Yes, there is such a feeling. Someone said the scientist/shaman had a higher search rate -- without any supporting evidence, but we have no evidence against either. There were complaints & suggestions that the villager/settler was dominated by other character types, and should start with some advantage such as a higher search rate. By and large Simon appears to be implementing changes behind the scenes as fast as we can suggest them, so it is natural to suspect that starting Settler-0 has a higher search rate than Soldier, Pirate, et al. Currently my Settler finds are nearly 50% in buildings, which I believe is higher than for other classes. But we need to log the searches, because I could easily have gotten lucky. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 17:53, 27 April 2006 (BST)
:*'''KEEP'''--One of the main objectives of this 'condensed' version was to encourage data entry. That thought alone is what really drives my desire not to include another column as it is another place for people to possibly screw up or feel it is too difficult. Now, if it is needed as you say, then of course, leave it in, hence the "keep". For some background on what I have put together here.. I was aiming at a single table so one wouldn't have to hunt around for the right table for their specific data. A place to put any and all data and always in the same form, letting computers do the inane sorting later. I did some testing streamlining the table to try to make it as simple as I could for wiki data entry. Again, all of that was to encourage people to add data. Sadly, there is very little data added anyway.. even with it being on the front page for quite a long time now. The tables are saved as html and imported into excel and collated (for the most part) automatically into the graphs. If/when there was more interest I was planning to ask if the wiki could get a timeline plugin installed [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/EasyTimeline] I have worked a little bit on a preliminary version of an automatic graph maker for wiki sorted from the shartak data. It would remove the need for making the lame process of screenshot, cropping, import.. with this installed on the shartak wiki it would be a simple cut and paste of text directly into the wiki creating bar graphs automatically, and saving lots of time. -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 01:04, 28 April 2006 (BST)
*To be clear, collating the data when the class info is there isn't more difficult - if you don't think it makes a difference, then collapse across those columns in your aggregate summaries. I'd be glad to help out with data collection and analysis. (also posted to your talk page) --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 17:53, 27 April 2006 (BST)
:*As to collapsing, that isn't the issue, it is as I discuss above it is more the streamlining and simplification .. anyway, one can simply ignore the data as you say. Although it does become more of an issue later in that finding trends becomes just that much more complicated as the degrees of freedom increases. Based on my current experience and the quickly increasing number of variables in the mix, I think the data needs to be in a real database, not excel as it currently resides. Nonetheless, if you feel you want to work with this further, please do. Let me know what parts you want to do, if not all of it .. if we are both doing the same thing, I will feel as if work has been wasted which could be spent on something else for the common good. My time is limited at the moment as the lack of data has allowed me to reprioritize away from this project a bit. -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 01:04, 28 April 2006 (BST)
::*Another important thing to keep in mind: the Scavenging ability (and character class in general) probably only affects the chance of a successful item find -- it probably doesn't affect the distribution profile among different items. For example, if Scavenging gives a +50% chance of finding something in an Ammo Hut, then 20 AP of Scavenging will yield the same information as 30 AP of normal searches. Analysis gets simpler rather than more complex... --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 07:16, 16 May 2006 (BST)

===Larger sample sizes===
Perhaps 30 AP spent searching minimum? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 18:17, 27 April 2006 (BST)
: '''KILL'''-- I don't think a minimum is a good idea. A search of 1AP is as valuable in the overall statistics as each AP of a search consisting of 2000AP. For data collation it makes no difference, the more data the better! So if someone wants to include a search of 1AP I say let them! :) -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 01:04, 28 April 2006 (BST)
:: Fine :P It should be noted that statistics was never my strong suit. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:16, 28 April 2006 (BST)
::: Every little bit helps. However, when possible, people should plan in advance to log the search results. If the submitter is only half-hearted, then they might say to themselves after-the-fact: "Hey cool, 7 rifles in 10 searches!" or "Hey cool, a heavy sword!" and rush off to contribute to the wiki, whereas their less interesting search events don't get submitted. This isn't good: If someone only contributes on days when their search outcome is exciting or aberrant, then the data gets messed up. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 10:50, 30 April 2006 (BST)

===Terrain tags===
The page is not entirely clear as to how to tag village terrain, disheveled huts, empty huts, ruins, oases, etc. I think this needs a clear key at the top of the page. Also, perhaps just let people copy and paste the description from their location, and then replace it with an appropriate code? I'd be happy to go through entered results and replace word/sentence terrain descriptions with specific codes if that makes your data processing easier. --[[User:Rotund|Rotund]] 08:17, 5 May 2006 (EST)
:I agree that copy/paste from the location description is probably the easiest way for a new searcher (unfamiliar with the lingo and the density overlay) to add in their location. Putting someone in charge of doing a global edit to unify entry codes would also be good. Oddball additional information that someone puts in their location column or class column can be appended to the NOTES column instead, where presumably the automated readers won't have problems with it. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 18:12, 15 May 2006 (BST)
::The three-letter codes for the character class seem needlessly confusing too. Plus there's alot of empty space in that column. So if anyone doesn't mind I'll go through and change all of them to "Soldier", "Shaman", "Settler w/o Scavenging" etc. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 01:54, 18 May 2006 (BST)
:::That would work for me. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 02:32, 18 May 2006 (BST)

From my experience, Jungle (d3), York (d3), and Dalpok (d3) searches are each going to have different search profiles, whereas Jungle (d3) and Jungle (d4) are likely to be the same. Here would be my first draft for Location Designators:

====Jungle Terrain Designators====
* d3 Jungle: empty Jungle space
* d2 Native Empty: empty space in a Native Village
* d5 Native Hut: outside a Hut in a Native Village
* d3 Outsider Empty: empty space in Outsider Village
* d0 Outsider Hut: outside a Hut in an Outsider Village
* d2 Ruins: outside Ruins icon (Hut 1/Hut 2/Hut 3 buttons) (assumes Ruins are always in the Jungle)
* d4 Jungle Hut: outside a Hut in the Jungle
* d1 Tree: (assumes Trees are always in the Jungle - or "d4 Jungle Tree")

====Hut Designators====
When inside a Hut, there is no Jungle density, but we need a description of which hut you are in... Here are some examples:
* in Hut, Empty Outsider
* in Hut, Dishevelled Native
* in Hut, Empty Jungle
* in Hut, Ruins #2
* in Hut, Temple Ruins #2
Wherever possible, we should put the GPS in the Notes column! (I was using the "in Hut" notation just to keep from confusion with searches outside of Huts.)

====Uberhut Designators====
* Ammo Hut: in Outsider Ammo Hut
* Medical Hut: in Outsider Medical Hut
* Dart Hut: in Native Dart Hut
* Healing Hut: in Native Healing Hut
* Trading Hut: in any Trading Hut (they're all empty)
* Large Cabin: in Shipwreck medical hut
* Armoury: in Shipwreck ammo hut
* Hold: in Shipwreck treasure horde
* Galley: in Shipwreck rum stockpile

====Non-Jungle Terrain Designators====
* Grasslands
* Beach
* Swamp
* Water
* Deep Water
* Mountain Path
* Cave
* Tunnel

Those would be my suggestions for the Location column. Other locations could be fully designated using a similar style. It is pretty complicated: locations may have a Jungle density, terrain name, detail name, an Outsider/Native designator, and a sub-detail (such as Empty or Dishevelled for the Huts). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 02:32, 18 May 2006 (BST)

==New Style==
Well I'm hopelessly confused now. Wasn't the original idea to put all the data into tables on the other page, [[Search Odds]]? And to keep it simple here so that people could add search data with ease. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 09:42, 8 June 2006 (BST)
 
My results using old format (I am adding this here for now, sorry that I dont know how to make it invisible, I know there's a way. If someone else knows how, please make this sentence and the data invisible to viewers of this page. I will remove this later):
 
<nowiki>

|-
| style="font-size:75%;line-height: 1em " | ~~~~
| | Soldier
| | Ammunition Hut
| | 65
| | 21 Successful searches (26 items) '''Items List:''' 3 box of 2 bullets, 2 bottle of water, 2 bottle of beer, 2 blunt machete, 3 sharp stone, 1 rifle bullet, 1 machete, 2 gold coin, 3 gps unit, 1 knife, 1 rifle (2) (Total bullets found: 9)
| | 32.3% success rate (40% item find rate), 13.9% bullet find rate (i.e., in 10 searches I could count on getting 1.4 bullets)

|-
| style="font-size:75%;line-height: 1em " | ~~~~
| | Scientist
| | Hut #1 at Ruins
| | 100
| | 4 healing herbs, 2 gold coins
| |

|-
| style="font-size:75%;line-height: 1em " | ~~~~
| | Settler w/Scavenging
| | Ammunition Hut
| | 75
| | 42 successful searches (56 items) '''Items List:''' 6 gold coin, 3 rifle (1), 3 rifle (2), 3 bottle of water, 14 rifle bullet, 1 box of bullets (2), 3 gps unit, 2 boxes of bullets (4), 1 blunt machete, 1 rifle (0), 1 box of bullets (5), 1 knife, 1 bottle beer, 2 sharp stone. (Total bullets found: 38)
| | 56% success rate (74.6% item find rate), 50.7% bullet find rate (i.e., in 10 searches I could count on getting 5 bullets)
</nowiki>

Suggestions:Skills

2006-06-04T00:05:12Z

Arminius: /* Hut Construction (Simplified) */

{{:Suggestions/Header|page_type=Skills}}

==Skills==

===Planting/agriculture===
Both outsiders and natives with this skill should be able to plant trees (mango, banana) on fertile land. By clearing away jungle, and applying an example of the fruit of the tree you wish to plant, you could sow the seed. A tree of that type would then sprout X days later. This would open up for plantation, and help feed the villages/settlements. --[[User:DKChannelboredom|DKChannelboredom]] (2 March)

''Comments''
:Interesting idea, perhaps only a chance that a tree will grow, and to ensure a tree grows you have to plant a certain number of fruit of the same kind on the same block. Of course, does this mean that existing trees should occasionally die off, say if they get surrounded by 8 blocks of highest density jungle and the tree block is also highest density jungle.. maybe explained as something to do with lack of sunlight reaching the tree because of the amount of jungle around it. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 09:47, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
::Why not treat existing trees and planted trees separately? My initial thought is that if I did not have this skill, I would still like the opportunity to gather resources from a dependable source. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
----

=== Weapon Skills ===
The Warrior/Soldiers class should get weapon skills, like spear skills for the warrior and rifle skills for the soldier, make the soldiers skills make the rifle have better to hit then the natives spear but the rifle requires the searching of ammo, this makes the difference between natives and outsiders warrior classes more than the blowpipe and rifle (blowpipes do 1 less damage) EDIT: I ahnotice that the outsiders do indeed have rifle training, freshly added to the wiki I guess.-- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 11:07, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''

We have been doing some research(see the talk page in character classes) and it appears that warriors are no better at fighting(unless you count 10 extra hp as being really great) than any other class, correct me if I'm wrong but if there is no warrior only fighting skill what makes them warriors and not shamans w/ blowpipes(pardon the pun but they "blow") and +10hp? and if that is all they are how come soilders get extra skills? -- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 02:55, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

Also, if you've got a machete and the three melee skills, there's never any point in using a blowpipe (unless you've got 1AP left and a victim with only 4HP remaining). There should be a skill that increases the chances of hitting with a blowpipe, to at least 30% - especially since you have to search for darts. Viveca Lindfors, 6 March 2006, 17:25 GMT

It should be over 30% as even at that it still makes blowpipes worse than the heavy sword(which while apparently being really rare itdoesn't mean everybody can't search and find one and 5 dam 45%[2.25 dam/ap] outclasses even 4 dam, search ammo, 2ap per shot, 80%![approaxamitly 1.6 dam/ap not counting search ap] anyday, hell the heavy sword is the uberest weapon in the game![the rifle is 5 dam, 1.5 ap/shot,60%=2dam/ap not counting searching!]) I think you should at least be able to make them have the same to hit as the rifle, It would be balanced by the fact you can only load a single dart at a time(i think),they have lower damage, but you can find darts in more places (check the regular search odds page you'll see they were found in d10 jungle!) I could see this fact alone justify the lower damage and single shot load, but not the lower to hit chance. Unless of course poison darts actually poison(has anybody checked this out?) then I see why they have a low to hit, you can dart somebody, run away then they would die trying to find you, But even if they do poison, outsiders can use them too(with a skill) so I still believe native warriors should be more effective at darting then any other class to balance the superiority of rifles.But all in all problems are solved if blowpipes get some skills to raise to hit% and the heavy sword is removed for being too uber(just cause it is rare doesn't mean we all can't/won't find it!) --[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 23:09, 9 March 2006 (GMT)

Maybe there can be a skill to create blowpipe darts (with poison berries or snakes)
----

=== Religious Devotion ===
Required to use "Holy Scriptures" --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
----

=== Jungle Skills ===
The jungle environment has great potential to add significant dynamic to this game. These could be a set of skills to reflect this.
: Jungle Lore: Player has x% chance of discovering item/artifact. Might work in conjunction with search skill.
: Make/Detect Traps: Spikes, Pits etc... Not sure this is possible and what would be need to time degrade this.[[User:Nankilstlas|Nankilstlas]]
: Some kind of "hiding" skill where you can spend AP to conceal yourself in fauna, so you can't be seen by passersby. Visually, it could take the form of "reforesting" a block to dark green, and someone who chops through would "uncover" you, perhaps getting some XP? --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 19:34, 25 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
:: A 'trapping' skill looks like it would be exploited by greifers (surrounding someone with traps, for example), but I like the 'Hiding' and 'Jungle Lore' ideas.--[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 02:26, 26 February 2006 (GMT)
:: The hiding skill shouldn't conceal you from animals or someone with the Sixth Sense, Exploration, or Jungle Lore skills, otherwise the player would be invincible.--[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 21:15, 27 February 2006 (GMT)
:::Agreed, hostile animals should be able to sniff out hidden players, and Sixth Sense makes sense as well. Hidden players have to remain motionless to stay hidden, using items, searching, etc, would "unhide" the person. I was also thinking how the "reforesting" aspect could be abused to create vast areas that needed to be chopped down, so maybe a player could only hide in an already dark green area, (getting a message like ''there is not enough foliage to suitable hide in'' when trying in a cleared area) limiting its effect somewhat, and creating a little extra tension when on the run from someone and trying to find an overgrown area to hide in. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 22:37, 27 February 2006 (GMT)
:::: I like the hiding skill, maybe with different AP required depending on jungle density. Also, first hidden could make you invisible from 2 squares away, while hiding further would hide you from any adjacent square, and a third hide would keep you hidden on the same square unless they chopped. --[[User:Qberry|Qberry]] 3/29/06
::::like the hiding thing as well, maybe it could work in that if you use it then you are only visible if they are in the same square as you? it would certainly keep you quite hidden anyway. -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 15:42, 28 March 2006 (BST)
----

=== Skinning ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill addition|
suggest_scope=All classes|
suggest_description=This is a skill that does not have a pre-requisite. Upon coming across an area where a dead animal is present, the player is given an opportunity to skin the animal. The process of skinning costs 1 AP and has a chance of producing items such as '''Animal Hide''' or '''Animal Tooth''' or '''Animal Feathers'''. These items can be traded to an NPC found in villages and exchanged for Gold Coins. This skill should be available to all classes to grant them all with an equal opportunity of earning Gold.
* Extend skinning to killed players? No, that's just wrong. We are civilized.
* Make skinning have a pre-requisite of '''Exploration'''? Perhaps.
* Make skinning always produce an item, rather than chance? No, I like a good challenge.
* Perhaps it could be tied to the Meat suggestion? Possibly.|
suggest_time=21:48, 23 February 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

* Good idea, perhaps natives don't have a pre-requisite, but outsiders need exploration? *cough* --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 02:12, 26 February 2006 (GMT)
** While that may be a more realistic way to handle it - since natives would conceivably be more experienced with such matters - I think that changing the skill tree for such a minor skill would upset the general sense of game balance between the two sides. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 02:43, 26 February 2006 (GMT)

}}

=== Animal Spirit ===
(native only) Upon gaining this skill, an animal type is associated with the player. Any attacks by the player on that animal result in negative xp, but the animal is less likely to attack the player. Additionally, if the player dons the skin of the animal (perhaps via the Skinning skill) then a bonus is given to the player, such as faster movement, hit bonus, damage bonus. Bonus could be dependant on animal. Upon player death, there is a chance the player's animal spirit will change. --frisco

''Comments''
*Suggestions like this usually make me cringe. Can't really explain why. Could you elaborate, though, on the bonuses gained?--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 17:06, 3 May 2006 (BST)
----

=== Build Training ===
(Outsiders only) They gain the ability to build walls around the outsider settlements. There would be different levels like reinforced, light, massive, etc. Whoever can attack them and destroy them. Maybe there would be a skill for building gates? --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:33, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* Natives should be able to make walls too - think King Kong, plus if there are native ruins on this island, then they must still have some decent construction knowledge lingering around. However, Outsiders should have an "Advanced" skill that allows for stronger walls. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 04:41, 1 March 2006 (GMT)
:Yes, any human should be able to build, and they should ONLY be able to build in certain areas, so as not to have some group lay claim to a section of the island with key resources (assuming there are some). Also, it should take a LOT of AP. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:18, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
----

=== Trap Laying ===
(Native only) They can place one time use traps that dmg outsiders only. This skill can only be used in the jungle. Maybe a skill to be able to detect traps? --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:36, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* Again i'm thinking Outsiders could make traps too - some of them must have been hunters in the Old Country - but perhaps an Advanced skill for natives, leading to higher success rate, since they are more used to the environment. This skill seems dangerous, though, possibly leading to clans just laying traps in every single square of jungle, making it ridiculous for the other side. Perhaps a trap can only be made in certain jungle types, and only lasts until the jungle changes in level (either growing up naturally or down by the same character type chopping it). --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 04:53, 1 March 2006 (GMT)
:This was already proposed in the "jungle skills" section. I agree, it seem too easy to abuse by griefers.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:18, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
----

===Comment Cartography===
Applies to Natives & Outsiders, most likely best applied only to the classes, scouts & explorers. I am thinking that it would be great to get more out of the map. This skill would allow those who have it to be able to add a limited number of short comments to their maps. These comments could work as references so as to be able to use the map to help find points of interest at some other time. I could see this probably difficult to implement, but perhaps it could work in that one could click in a quadrant on the map which would reload the page and allow you to add a text comment / description to a form. This text comment on a save would place a reference number on that quadrant of the map and the text would be listed to the right or below the map with accompanying reference number. -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 17:05, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
*This is a great idea, I am not an explorer/scout but I am all for class-specific skills, that are in character, because as of right now there aren't too many differences(which I'm guessing will change.-- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]]00:37, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

*I think this is a great idea too, and very much the way a real cartogragher would operate, making small notations as they explored and surveyed.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:49, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

*I've been spoiled by the GPS and haven't really found myself lost enough to need this skill. However, with the random revival change I can imagine that getting lost in the jungle is becoming frequently more common for new players. I had a difficult time accepting the point-and-click location feature. I'm not sure how that could be handled simply. I also considered allowing the player to input X and Y coordinates directly, but that seemed out of character for Natives. One possibility that I settled on was a simple "Add Location" button on map.cgi to document the current location. It would change that map.cgi square to a different color and prompt the player to input a description. Ten location points with unique colors and descriptions will be listed under the map to serve as a key. You could either make this listing a queue (pushing out the oldest entries) or locked at 10 until one of the locations are deleted by the player. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 09:01, 11 May 2006 (BST)
----

=== Revive skill ===
Applies to doctors and shamans, a skill to revive spirits, would require Sixth sense (obviously). It is simple enough premis: a skill that revives dead players similar to the regular shamans instead of requiring them to go to town shamans, the revive players aren't as skilled at the craft so the revived players would have only 80% of there hp when revived by other players. --[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 00:43, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* Does raise a risk of multi-abuse, but I agree that player shamen should have this ability. Maybe it requires a special powder or item in order to do?--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:49, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
* I am trying to think of some cost right now but can't decide. I do know that the xp gain rate should be comparable to fighting(and healing when there are more players) so players will want to be a revive player. --[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 01:41, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
*I don't like the idea of Doctors getting the ability to revive the dead, but that's definitely within the rights of a shaman. Sixth Sense as a requirement, and you must be standing in the same area as a spirit. Give either a 100% chance to work and a relatively high AP cost (10?) or a lower chance to work and lower AP cost. Blam. There you go. Player shamans can now do their part.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:18, 28 March 2006 (BST)
*Haven't been around in a bit..... anyways I was just thinking that it seems mighty easy to get levels by "camping" the "enemy" shamen and getting hordes of xp and tonnes of native/outsider kills this seems like an exploit of the current system of revives. If a player aided revive method is put into place the main shamans should be removed, or you can only be revived by your home shaman by the call shaman(or whatever it is called) button to prevent this xp farming. I thought of this because my level 3 pirate has got all his xp from doing this and it is mighty easy and with the Ubermap and stuff it is even easyer to do, though pirates will need a way to get revived by there own.....lol I just realized I put doctor instead of scientist doctor=scientist - [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 02:51, 4 April 2006 (BST)
----

===Polymorph===
Requires Animal Spirit. Allows character to take the form of an animal. Perhaps one skill per animal, and each transform requires the use of an (AP expensive) animal mask. Upon transforming, people around you cannot tell it is you. If you die as an animal, you turn back to human, having lost half the HP the animal lost. To allow polymorph for outsiders, maybe a skill like "Ancient Reading" with the presumption that this allows them to read the right glyphs in the ruins would give them the ability to learn this skill. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 03:52, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* I like the idea of having some kind of weird supernatural kind of skill for the natives... But, I think that if you get killed while in animal form, you should be dead and have to seek the assistance of a shaman. Because all the natives would do when logging out is morph into an elephant. That's a boat load of HP for someone to whittle down and kill, only to have the human pop out and have to be hacked away at. Granted, nobody will KNOW outright that the person has assumed the guise of an animal. Would you propose that if someone "kills" the animal form they get the XP bonus of killing an animal? -- [[User:Schmeckel|Schmeckel]] 06:09, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
*Special masks that turn you into animals? They'd need to be quite hard to make, maybe special wood from a certain type of tree, a bit of the animal and something to stick it together. It'd have to be harder to get the ones for better animals. [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 12:19, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
----

===Will o' the Wisp===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill addition|
suggest_scope=Spirits (all classes)|
suggest_description=Will o' the Wisp (can't think of another name) is a potentially simple skill to give a little more incentive to play as a spirit for a bit. It is a sub-skill of '''Ghostly whisper'''. If a player possesses this skill, then as a spirit they will have an option to "Wisp" for 30 AP. Wisping operates on a similar mechanic as the Flare guns and Feeding groans in Urban Dead. Any players posessing '''Sixth Sense''' within a 5x5 range of the spirit will be informed: ''A faint flicker of light catches your eye (x blocks east/west), (y blocks north/south). (timestamp)''.

This skill also has the potential to stack. More spirits on the same square will produce a brighter effect. Possibly in base 5. Ranging from faint flicker, slight illumination, to brilliant flash.

Fixes that I made last minute: reduced the Wisp range and upped the Wisp cost in an attempt to reduce spamming, also making Sixth Sense a prerequisite for recognizing Wisps as it would otherwise nerf the skill to a degree.|
suggest_time=07:53, 25 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

* I like it. The AP cost might be a bit on the high side, but there may be other alternatives to reduce spamming. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 10:44, 25 March 2006 (GMT)
* What's the point of it? Or is there something I'm missing? I mean, is it just to light up for kicks? Wll o' the Wisps in folklore always attempted to lead travellers into dangerous parts of bogs, where they would find their doom. Since that isn't really an option (and since people, noticing this, would just stop paying attention to them), is there any practical use for this? Still neat, if there isn't, but better if there is.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:25, 28 March 2006 (BST)
** As a Shaman with Sixth Sense, I've only come across 1 spirit. I sought a means to encourage the realm of the living and the dead to interact more. It is admitedly mostly aimed towards flavor and roleplaying than mechanics. The most practical application would be to attract people to revive points (in the possibility that they are created). In retrospect, I now see that this suggestion overlaps with the '''Haunting Scream''' description to a fair degree. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:33, 28 March 2006 (BST)
::* Does it overlap? I haven't seen a Haunting Scream in action, yet. I'm all for flavor and RP skills, I just doubt that people woud bother with them too often without some mechanical benefit, which would be a shame. I'll admit, though, that I hadn't thought of attracting shamans to get yourself revived.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 06:48, 29 March 2006 (BST)

}}

===Construction===
construction points, would be implemented and would act like exp, but players earn it by setting up camp, ex: 5exp everytime a player sets up his/her cabin, costs 10ap to set up, to keep from spamming and getting free exp.
*'''construction'''allow players to build 1(one) single hut per GAME that is collapsable, non collapsable, players out in the jungle would have to cut down the jungle to re-construct the hut
this would give players a reason to stay out in the jungle,

simply what it says, first off, we could/should have different buildings because i find it annoying to have to look around at the same picture not knowing where the trading post is. im implying that new icons be put in for huts, like the pirate ship, have different pictures, ex:
there is an armory hut, it's icon would be a hut with a silver tip/ sword on the roof
and etc...

SKILLS:
*'''hut maitenance'''
can change hut 1(one) time into another kind of hut ex: armory hut, extra chance of finding wpns etc
**'''cupboard''' accesible inventory in hut that players can "lock" and recieve a "key" item, other players could break open the "lock" for x amount of AP
*'''bed''' players in hut are shown the "get into bed" option which heals 2 hp every hour they arent logged in
**'''fluffy bed''' heals and extra 1-2 hp
*'''running water'''
if the hut is within x amount of squares to water, they can refill gourds and bottles (i think someone suggested we keep empty bottles, this would require that to be implemented)
*'''fire-pit''' players can cook meat (as suggested, only used if implemented)
*'''craftmanship'''players can see the hut's creator, ex: Richard's Hut, if skill isnt aquired, players see the hut as "dishevelled hut" or "ragged hut" etc.
*'''hut upgrade 1''' hut is given one extra ring of squares
**'''hut upgrade 2''' hut is given extra floor
***'''hut upgrade 3''' hut second floor is enlarged, door locks are given
****'''hut upgrade 4''' hut is given a basement

the use of hut upgrades is to help people hide, when upgrade 3 is given, and locks are attained, players can "lock" their houses up, requiring a devastating amount of AP to open, suggesting around 60-70 AP

*'''house trap 1''' spike trap, inflicts 1 wound
**'''house trap 2''' heavy spike trap, 1 wound and 3 dmg
*'''house trap 3''' blast trap, 7 hp
**'''house trap 4''' heavy blast trap 14 hp

traps are triggered upon breaking into a house, players can attain a new skill:
*'''lockpick''' breaking in only costs 30 AP
with this skill, traps are disabled

*'''animal cage'''
if animal trapping were implemented, then this would keep them from running away when u died,
**'''animal care''' animal care section of the house, determining your pet's status ex:
Richard clicks the button "give pet food" mr whiskers smiles and gobbles it up. it could also just be flavor text, and a way to get rid of meat.
*'''attack animal'''
player buys skill animal now acts like trap, player types in names of people allowed to be in house, anyone not on the list is attacked by animal, animal is treated as "wild" to intruders, as per, it will follow them several blocks away from the house before returning, and can be killed, but is also agressive no matter what breed. ex: mr.parrot attack john doe for 2 dammage and returns home.
**'''rabidity''' animal is now "rabid" and has a 20% chance of "infecting" (wound) the intruding player

other tidings can be added, ex:
*'''taxidermy''' players can pick up dead bodies and mount them in their house ex:
in the second story of richard's hut is a grey elephant head, mounted on oak

my finale,
*'''garden''' allows players to plant a tree/ bush 1 square away from their house, planting requires, 5 of the said fruit and the plants disappear when the hut is packed up, players also have the ability to "kill" the plant and re-grow a different one.
**'''green thumb''' allows players to garden for only 3 fruits
**'''verdant thumb''' allows players to change to growths around their house, ex: a house surrounded by dirt can be changed to light undergrouwth or heavy forest
**'''spade''' allows player to dig a "cellar" 1-3 squares away from house to "hide" or store items.
skill also allows players to loacte any tunnels within 5X5 of the checked area. players can only check within a 3X3 area around the house

house experience does not raise everytime a skill is bought, but the price is set at 100-200 (your choice)

"comments Below"

Sounds like it would be a good idea if the island was bigger but otherwise a 3x3 would be gigantic if everyone had one--[[User:Slith|Slith]] 21:40, 29 March 2006 (BST)
*not really, but the huts are still the same single square size on the outside, it is the inside that changes. --[[User:Richard Rose|Richard Rose]]

I think it would be better to implement this skill while implementing clans - i.e. having clan camps. One way to implement this would be to establish camp/ a hut automatically when a certain number of players from a given clan stand on a single square. This would reward organization and prevent individual players from spamming. In addition, I think that having all those additions as skills is unnessacary. I just adds uneeded complexity. Again, clan based operation seems to be the best way to do this.--[[User:Gandhi|Gandhi]] 00:47, 31 March 2006 (BST)
----

===Plunder===
{{suggestion|
suggest_time=07:15, 30 March 2006 (BST)|
suggest_type=Skill|
suggest_scope=Pirates|
suggest_description=So. Pirates have been added, at long last. We all love pirates. They're swarthy, greedy people. Like mobsters, only with eyepatches, bandanas, peg legs, parrots, and the clap. There's something lacking in the pirates on Shartak, though. To get a better idea of this, let's look at the check list.

[x] 1. Pirate ship

[x] 2. Swarthy attitude

[x] 3. Pirate lingo

[x] 4. Murder

[ ] 5. Plunder

Aha! So we've identified the problem: a distinct lack of plunder. For this reason, I've come up with the idea for a plunderin' skill. Now, when you kill some poor sap, you take one coin out of his inventory per level--his level, that is. This keeps it a little balanced, in that you won't be taking away the life savings of some poor little level 1 when you kil him. Unless he happens to have only 1 coin, but that's neither here nor there. Now, of course, if you kill a level 5 who only has 4 coins, you'll only get those 4 coins. If he has 6 coins, however, you'll only get 5 of them.

Is it overpowering pirates to give them this class-restricted skill? Not really. I mean, despite being a combat class, they can't really get any good with rifles. Pretty much all of their kills are made with a cutlass. And what's the real usage of the gold coins? Typically, to buy ammunition. Obviously, the pirates won't be using it on that, as they're terrible shots. They'll just buy themselves some medical supplies, some back-up weapons, and hoard the rest. I can't say I know that many players who hold onto the coins, anyways, though I'm sure there must be some. Still, they generally tend to be spent pretty quickly. Really, I just think that this could lend pirates a little more depth; sure, they're fellow outsiders, but can you trust them? How quickly will they cut your throat for you wallet?

So... Thoughts? Agreement? Death threats?|
suggest_author=[[User:Wifey|Wifey]]|
suggest_comments=

*'''Keep/Change''' (Yarr) I agree that this fits with theme and perhaps rightfully rewards Pirates in that they do not have a Trader NPC at the shipwreck (at least that was the case when I left it several days ago). And I'm glad that this is being presented as a purchasable skill (I believe?) rather than an inherent one. I do generally follow one of the basic tenets of UD - "Don't <del>Tread On Me</del> Mess With My Inventory!" But gold appears to have become fairly plentiful with the Trader NPC; having more gold than your current level is a fairly easy feat and losing gold won't lead to an entirely unpleasant gaming experience. However, I would like a few more mechanics set in place to minimize the avenues to zerging, griefing, and general abuse that this suggestion would open up. The only simple amendment I can think of may be to give '''Plunder''' a percent chance of success. Perhaps allowing for degrees of advanced plundering skills. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 20:07, 30 March 2006 (BST)
**'''RE:''' A very good point. Very good points from both of you. I had thought of a % chance when I was originally writing the suggestion, but I realized that the nwe'd be dealing with an X% chance to get Y% of the other player's coins, and I thought it might be a little more work on the server than necessary. I thought, perhaps a chence of getting only 1 coin, but that seemed just silly. Perhaps we could limit the pirate to only 1 plunder per day (or maybe a few more, if people feel that 1 is too few)? For example, if you killed John Smith the level 1 Explorer and took 1 coin from him, then killed Mr. Moneybags the level 16 with more coins than you can shake a stick at, you would get no coins from him. If you were to wait a day, though, and kill Mr. Moneybags ''then'', you would get 16 coins--and no more from anyone else for the rest of the day. Additionally, you would not be able ot get money from the same person twice in a row. So if, after killing Mr. Moneybags and taking half of his coins, you killed him the next day, you would get none. You might as well have gone for poor little John Smith. That eliminates griefing, and all it would need to do is keep track of the ID of the last person you killed, checking it the next time you kill someone 24+ hours later..--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 23:29, 30 March 2006 (BST)
*i agree with both of them, and with you, id love to see this flavor added, and the trader NPC at the pirate camp has yet to be found, so they would have to go to another village to use it. the closest village (where my pirate is) is dalpok, which, is, as you know native. this hostility would mean pirates would REALLY have to work to hoard medical supplies and weapons, thusly this would be well balanced. i also want to discuss the % success rate. as pirates are VERY good at "plundering" the % chance success rate should start at a reasonably high %, such as 50% and above. as putting it any lower would simply be ridiculous. there could be several level ups to raise the % but if there are no advanced levels then i suggest putting the starting % at around 75%. --[[User:Richard Rose|Richard Rose]]

*'''Plunder''' could be made a search skill (concievably the second skill in the plunder grouping). Rather than having it be merely equivalent to scavenging the plunder skill could only be used in villages (it wouldn't matter if they were native or outsider villages). Scavenging could similarly be changed to a jungle-only skill. Repeatedly plundering a square would deplete it much like chopping down a square of jungle, and squares would replenish over time much the same way. Whether this affects the search odds for other players is open to debate. I'd hate for the pirate class to be burning every other class in the game by plundering all the villages to the point nobody could find a rifle. The odds of finding a broken item should increase while plundering. The more refined the item the greater the chance it would be broken when a pirate plunders it (GPS, first aid kits, rifles, dart guns and any other delicate manufactured items to come being more likely to be broken). It would give people on the island something to do other than filling out the map and hunting game. Since we could then expect groups of pirates moving from village to village it would also increase player interaction (violently or otherwise). Having a wider range of broken items could necessitate a repair skill for players or a similar service that could be provided by a trader adding another level to the game's economy. -[http://www.shartak.com/profile.cgi?id=242 Tyler Whitney]

*With the new "stuff breaks/crit hit" along with traders gold has a major use, instead of searching for that cutlass(or machete both break) you can go trade your hard earned gold coins for a weapon, why stop at just coins? pirates could get this skill and should just take away 1 random item (any item) plus a few gold coins, as we all know pirates didn't just take gold they took anything of value. Though level ones should be completly immune to this and the maximum value of the item you take(based on how many gold coins it takes to trade for the item) should be equal to there level, or some other method all I know is items should get stolen along with coins, you can only get killed once (as of right now) before going back to a village so it doesn't do too much, I mean 1 item? even if it was my machete(whom I call Mary) I wouldn't mind, sure my ghost would scream and haunt the bastard who took her away from me that would just add a new level of fun to the game. As a native(with a pirate alt) I support this skill, though it would entail a new top ten richest in the statistics page so the pirates would know who to hunt.... mwahaha -[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 03:09, 4 April 2006 (BST)
**Now there's an interesting idea. Perhaps, though, there should then be a hierarchy of items in the eyes of a pirate? For instance, you take 1 item (which might be a gold coin) and one gold coin on the side. The gold coins on the side would increase with one's level. What would the item be, though? Probably first would be a gem. They're shiny and valuable--a pirate's favorite words (aside from "Arrrr!")! Next? A gold coin. Not enough coins? Probably a cutlass or machete. None of those? Rifle. No? Rifle bullet, then. None of those, either? Probably go with a first aid kit. Ah, but those are out, too? Bottle of water. And so on down the list. Bottle of water -> bottle of rum -> gourd of water/banana/berries -> knife/dagger. I doubt a pirate would bother with a blowgun or darts, nor would he yearn for his enemies' driftwood. Once again, just throwing an idea out, though.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 06:28, 4 April 2006 (BST)
*** To a Pirate, Rum would be more interesting than Water...[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 11:40, 28 May 2006 (BST)
**I think plundering items crosses into making this skill much to powerful. It lessens the need for the Pirate class to spend AP searching. They may lose a cutlass or two choppping another player to bits, but then they earn a machete in the kill and can continue on their way. Gold coins can be argued to be powerful, but the lack of a Trader at the shipwreck means they have to make their way to other Villages in order to spend them. After some further thinking, I feel that there should be a plundering cap of 10 coins regardless of level (otherwise it would be unfair to classes with class-specific skills that make them a higher level than others). And it is random chance after the kill produces no coins or some coins or all coins. If the player doesn't have enough coins, the Pirate plunders what he can and is given extra flavor text to reward them on their evil little victory. "Yo ho ho! You have taken all (Player)'s booty." --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 07:00, 4 April 2006 (BST)

*Plunder sounds nice. How about this formula: a pirate's chance of plundering someone equals 4 times the pirate's level minus 2 times the victim's level and always returns the lesser of half the victim's level in gold (rounded down) or all the victim's gold. In other words, if a level 10 pirate plunders a level 1 scientist with 10 gold, the pirate has a 38% chance of getting 0 gold, and if a level 10 pirate plunders a level 13 warrior with 2 gold, the pirate has a 14% chance of getting 2 gold. This simulates higher level non-pirates being more adept at hiding coin purses on their body, and prevents griefing on newbies. I agree with above comments that plunder should be a one time immediate event upon killing a character, based on a percentage chance, and limited to gold - anything else makes the skill too complex and/or powerful. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 13:39, 4 April 2006 (BST)
*I wouldn't support this unless pirates could be plundered ''from'', too, which kind of defeats the point. It's not like pirates are a weak class; the shipwreck has a trader now, and they start with 65 HP. I really like being able to count on having a static inventory while I'm logged out, and I think "Yarr, a pirate has killed you and plundered 1 gold coin" would get old very fast. I think it'd be quite cool if pirates were healed by 1 HP more for drinking beer or rum, but taking gold from their kills is too much. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 16:42, 28 May 2006 (BST)
*Yarr and Keep. I say this is a good addition. I believe all the classes should have some skill specific to them. I have a pirate and a scientist, and neither of them have anywhere special go to in terms of skills, thus making the distinction of them being scientists and pirates useless. Especially the scientist... 10 gold coins? What the? --[[User:Rip Purr|Rip Purr]] 10:53, 30 May 2006 (BST)


}}

===Diagnosis===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill addition, class-specific|
suggest_scope=Shaman and Scientist|
suggest_description=This is an attempt to create additional variety within the classes. Diagnosis would be a sub-skill of Triage available only to the Shaman and Scientist classes. It behaves much like Triage does, but it would detect Shark Bites and other possible future maladies and status ailments. Shark Bite victims could be identified with an asterisk next to their name. 
I believe that this skill's net benefits will be minimal. It would fit with the theme of the class, while not over-powering them. I also believe that since this is a sub-skill, that there should be additional class-specific skills for Shamans and Scientist.|
suggest_time=18:21, 6 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

* If Triage truly only does reveal one person's HP then the skill tree should be expanded for Advanced Triage as well. Where Advanced Triage would display the HP of everyone in the current area - rather than just the most wounded. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:55, 29 April 2006 (BST)
* Corrected usage of Doctor. I hope that this skill can still be considered in-character for Scientists. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:11, 11 May 2006 (BST)

}}

===Alchemy===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill addition, class-specific|
suggest_scope=Scientists|
suggest_description=Allows Scientists to convert seemingly useless items (such as driftwood) into valuables such as a gold coin. Another possibility is crabs into gems (don't ask). This would, of course, cost about 25 AP per use. This would give Scientists a key role in the game because they would be needed to convert intems.|
suggest_time=23:24, 8 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

*While I like the basic idea of this, it should be limited a little. That said, I don't know how one would appropriately limit its use. Perhaps you could turn a bottle of rum into a more refreshing bottle of water? How, precisely, would you envision the implementation of this?--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:18, 10 April 2006 (BST)
*I like it! It gives us something unique to do as scientists! Would you make it so you turn a specific useless item into a specific useful item, or what?[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 15:24, 10 April 2006 (BST)
**I imagine that eventually every class will have atleast one unique skill to separate it from the others and give a reason for choosing that class. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 01:30, 11 April 2006 (BST)
*I could accept this if it was presented differently. As it stands, it sort of conflicts with my expectation that the Natives are the more mystically-inclined and the Outsiders are more advanced technologically. I just don't envision men and women of science practicing alchemy. I have no objection to the scientist manufacturing items, but not in this manner. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 03:37, 11 April 2006 (BST)

}}

===Spirit Substantiation===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill|
suggest_scope=Sprits (all classes)|
suggest_description=The spirit has learned to partially substantiate its form, becoming more physical, and can now float on the winds to move at double the normal rate (i.e. .5 AP per move), but only in the direction that the wind is blowing. Note that this requires the game element of wind, which can either be a uni-directional constant (e.g. always blows west) or changes over time (perhaps dependant on location?). If wind direction changes, the game's user interface will need a mechanism to display wind direction, either via game.cgi or added to map.html.

This could be the first in a series of new spirit skills. I see the aforementioned Will o' the Wisp being under this tree, as well as another skill to move .3 AP per move but still only in the direction of the wind. Perhaps some poltergeist type skills can be added as well - allow dead pirates to plunder, any spirit to write messages, any spirit to still map out the area, etc, etc.
|
suggest_time=16:40, 14 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Frisco|Frisco]]|
suggest_comments=

* Nice idea, what would happen to moving against the wind? Would that then require 2AP and 1 AP to move at 90 degrees to the wind direction :) --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 17:33, 14 April 2006 (BST)
** I was thinking of substantiation as being a conceptual (not a user toggle switch, something the game system automatically determines) on/off capability of the ghost, so the ghost could have no form and thus no penalty for moving into the wind, then take form and move with the wind. But that's mostly because i don't like the idea of skills that negatively affect a character. I definitely think wind should adversely affect other things, like pigeons taking longer to deliver if the recipient is upwind. It's all more math for you! --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 17:49, 14 April 2006 (BST)

}}

===Marksmanship===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill modification and new skill|
suggest_scope=Anyone who uses a ranged weapon|
suggest_description=A few problems that I see with regard to rifle use: 1) Non-soldiers' extremely low maximum rifle accuracy making rifles useless to non-soldiers, 2) Loading rifles takes up a tremendous amount of AP since it costs one AP to load one bullet, leading to a very low damage-to-total-AP-spent ratio, 3) A closely related problem to #2 is the fact that people are carrying around 20 or 30 rifles/blowpipes, which is ridiculous and unrealistic, and a by-product of the AP cost to load. I dont know if the following idea for a solution to both of these problems can realisitically be implemented, but here goes: Change the Advanced Rifle Training skill to make loading rifle bullets cost 0 AP (advanced training would thus mean the abiliy to load rifles very easily and quickly, as opposed to untrained people who take much longer. We are in the time period when it took a long time to load rifles after all). Institute a new skill called Marksmanship in the firearms skill tree, which gives +__% rifle accuracy <s>(I would say +30%). Let marksmanship be a skill that can be acquired by anyone, while rifle training and advanced rifle training remain soldier-exlcusive. If Marksmanship gives +30%, it will improve non-soldiers' maximum accuracy from 20% to 50%, knocking out problem #1 above. Soldiers with the entire proposed rifle skill tree would have max accuracy of 70% and would not have to waste an AP to load, knocking out problem #2. Natives would get the same changes for blowpipe
note: It might be better to have two skills, Marksmanship and Expert Marksmaship, each giving +15% accuracy, and possibly make these two a seperate skill tree. If they were in the rifle training tree, they would have to come after the two rifle training skills, but non-soldiers cannot get rifle training, so it would look awkward.</s>

'''NOTE: [[User_talk:Arminius#Proposal_for_new_rifle_skill_tree|Revised proposal and statistical analysis of current vs. proposed damage-to-AP ratios, click here]]'''|
suggest_time=05:34, 13 May 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Arminius|Arminius]]|
suggest_comments=

*From a gameplay point of view, i don't see that guns/blowpipes need to be any stronger. It's already possible to take someone out in one go, why the need to kill quicker? The proposed change means with one gun and a full load of bullets, one soldier in one day causes an average of 75 * .7 * 4 = 210 HP damage - that's 2.4 pirates with stamina, or 4.2 beginner shamans. It would make the game a lot less fun to be able to die that much quicker and that much more often. Maybe i wouldn't object as much if these old school guns were also subject to backfiring, causing them to blow up in the owner's hands and resulting in owner HP loss and gun destruction (similar to machete/cutlass blade snapping). By the way, elsewhere there's been debate on the timeperiod of the game since we also have GPS units. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 20:00, 13 May 2006 (BST)
::You are calculating ''combat'' damage-to-AP ratio, the proposed modification of the advanced rifle training skill would not affect combat-damage-to-AP ratio very much (it would affect it not at all for people with lots of rifles), it would only affect the rifle's currently very low total overall damage-inflicted-to-AP-spent ratio. (With 28 fully-loaded rifles a soldier can already kill two 85-HP pirates in only 56 AP.) The rifle's total-damage-to-AP ratio today is 0.48 by my calculation, the machete's is 1.35. With the proposed changes, the maximum total-damage-to-AP ratio for a rifle-wielding soldier would be 0.7 (still far lower than machete). Non-soldiers max rifle total damage-to-AP ratio would improve from 0.16 (weaker than a level 0 character with a blunt machete) to 0.4. I like your suggestion of rifles possibly blowing up too, Simon should definitely consider that. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 20:28, 13 May 2006 (BST)

*I'm not sure how I feel about the skill yet, but I will correct you, Frisco, in that the GPS unit is not an adequate argument about the game's time period. Simon has already said that he doesn't like the name "GPS Unit" because it is anachronistic, and was considering another one.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:03, 14 May 2006 (BST)

* I don't quite see why rebuilding the skill tree is necessary. You could accomplish the same thing by introducing two new skills - one for accuracy which builds upon the existing accuracy skills and one for reloading. Make the first accuracy skill available to all classes (adjusting to 30%), but restrict the secondary accuracy skills to Warriors and Soldiers. But even then, I'm not completely sold on the fact that these skills are necessary. I have no problem with my non-Soldier not depending on a rifle. If I wanted to use a rifle, I can easily make a Soldier character. And while reducing reloading cost might bring rifles and blowpipes more evenly with machetes, increasing the damage or introducing the ranged attack suggestion might solve the problem without providing free lunches. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 02:31, 15 May 2006 (BST)
::Yes of course it's fine to make them new skills. I suggested it in the way I did because learning to load quickly would fall under rifle training I would say, and we already have the two rifle-training skills in the game. One of the accuracy-improving skills would fall under Marskmanship (or marskmanship/expert marksmanship). How they are added to the game is almost immaterial, the point is to let soldiers be able to acquire a skill which gets rid of their need to waste more than half their daily AP loading their 20 rifles, and get rid of the need to carry 20+ rifles in the first place. I dont see how a skill allowing for a 0 AP cost to load is a "free lunch" at all, it just reduces the price of a ridiculously high-priced lunch, i.e. 1 AP to load 1 bullet/dart (plus I feel it improves the realism of the game, in part by eliminating the need to carry around 25 rifles or blowpipes). The point of the Marksmanship skill (available to all) is not to put non-soldiers on the par with soldiers in firearms capability at all, but to make rifles non-worthless to everyone else. Currently non-soldiers are literally far better off ''punching'' enemies than using a rifle when it comes to damage-inflicted-per-AP-spent, which is just ridiculous. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 03:37, 15 May 2006 (BST)
:::I do like the idea of making rifle and blowpipe usage more accessible to other character classes. But I continue to have a difficult time accepting the 0 AP reload cost. Currently there is no action in the game that costs 0 AP besides rejecting a trade, speaking in empty area, healing someone at full health, and dropping an item (all non-actions). Would 0.5 AP would be an acceptable change? But before it is considered, there must be other alternatives before lowering AP cost to make the ranged weapons more balanced. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:27, 27 May 2006 (BST)
::::How about this-- modify advanced rifle training skill so that instead of "Gain another 20% on firearms attacks", it says "lets soldiers load and fire faster" (0.5 AP to load and to fire with that skill), in other words a rifle version of trekking. This would cut down on the excessive AP costs of rifle usage and be an interesting skill to balance rifles rather than another "add 20% accuracy" or something like that. Then two new skills, Marksmanship (+10% accuracy), Expert Marskmanship (+20% accuracy), both of which would be available to all character classes. I would envision the two marskmanship skills as the first two skills in the firearms tree (the only two available to non-soldiers), and then the rifle training skills would come afterwards. -[[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 20:00, 30 May 2006 (BST)
:::::'''UPDATE:''' To see a revised version of my suggestion '''[[User_talk:Arminius#Proposal_for_new_rifle_skill_tree|Click Here]].''' I worked out the current and proposed damage-to-AP ratios, and I invite everyone to take a look. It is far too long and complicated to copy here, so I wrote it up elsewhere. -[[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 01:44, 2 June 2006 (BST)
:*As discussed elsewhere, ''carrying loaded rifles as backup allows you to lock in the kill bonus'' on a much wider range of (remaining-AP/remaining-victim-HP) situations. Since the '''kill bonus is more than a third of total XP for combat''', this throws the naive XP=damage comparisons way out of whack. Anecdotally at least, my Soldier has clearly done better than my other characters in jungle XP-harvesting, because kill-steals and dying while asleep are so common. So while the Rifle (and especially the Blowpipe) needs help, I think that nearly doubling combat-time damage to 2x 50% 5 damage for 1 AP (5.0) instead of 1x 60% 5 damage (3.0) is not an ideal way to proceed. I support Free Reload or Rapid Reload as a Soldier-Only Skill. I also think that an all-available accuracy upgrade for Rifle/Blowpipe (to at least better than Machete) would be great. For example: Base 20% (+General Accuracy +15%) (+Soldier-only Accuracy +15%) (+Soldier-only Accuracy +15%). Or maybe Base 10% (+General Accuracy +25%) (+Soldier-only Accuracy +25%) (+Soldier-only Rapid Reload), and increase Rifle Bullet base damage to 6. Two shots per AP just seems too big a jump to me; imho implementing true range (firing from adjacent square and/or without provoking return melee attacks) is a better way to proceed. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 03:56, 2 June 2006 (BST)
::*Yes the blowpipe needs help even more than the rifle. That limited-AP poisoning skill, along with these proposed boosts to accuracy, would even things out there. I also like the idea of making ranged weapons truly ranged, but that seems difficult to implement and perhaps impractical (for one thing we cant see the names of people on adjacent squares). If any version of QBerry's "auto attack" is ever implemented for players, though it seems unlikely with so much opposition, the "range" of the ranged weapon could come into play by not allowing a person without ranged weapons/ammo to back. This was discussed on the forums in the "Aggressive Animals" thread. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 06:01, 2 June 2006 (BST)
:*NB about Free Reload: Incidentally, Free Reload obviously solves the "realism problem" by allowing a Soldier to carry only one Rifle and a huge pile of Bullets, with '''no increase''' in Soldier combat-time damage-per-AP (still 3.0 max avg per AP) nor Soldier field-capacity damage-per-inventoryfull (still 72 shots) since 2 Bullets loose take up as much space as a Loaded Rifle. People who think that 0AP reload is imbalancing have been smoking too much of the dried herbs. As for realism of 0AP reload, the Soldier's "1AP to fire" accounts for time necessary to both reload and fire. I can discuss and reject 160 exchanges with the Trader and or attempt to heal a signpost in the same amount of time. The real-time form submission and IP hit creates a perceptible time-increment. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 03:56, 2 June 2006 (BST)

After thinking about this, it seems to me that the best thing to do is as follows: No new skill, instead simply a change in the game mechanics so that all players take 0 AP to "load" by deafult. The AP cost to fire would thereby represent the time to load and fire, as Tycho44 said above. (Load was in quotation marks there because the load button in-game would thus really represent selecting the bullet to use, the actual action of loading would be included in the 1 AP to fire). This would eliminate the 30 rifles problem straight away (and for all character classes), it would ''not'' increase the combat damage-to-AP ratio at all, and it would be an interesting way to increase the damage-to-''total''-AP-spent ratio (which we need) without having to add any new skill. As for the accuracy boosts, those can be worked out later (non-soldiers need a boost in that department we all agree, perhaps soldiers merit a slight one), but 0 AP to "load" is definitely a sound change to make, I see no argument against it. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 23:11, 3 June 2006 (BST)


}}

===Hut Construction (Simplified) ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill, item, action|
suggest_scope=Every player|
suggest_description=This is a bit similar to the Construction suggestion, but much more simplified. I agree that we should be able to set up little camps, to have bases away from bases. I'll explain the flavour aspect after I've explained the mechanics. 
A skill can be purchased called, "Construction", which allows you to erect a hut on land that has been chopped down to 0 density. The hut would have a bit of AP weight to build, say 10ap cost so that full constuction on a 10 dense jungle sq would have a total of 20ap. The hut that you build is at first a regular empty hut. Once you have bought the second skill in the set, "Stock Hut" (or something like that), the hut becomes a mini trade-post, stocking no more than 5 types of items at any one point. The first 5 items are randomized, and then as people trade, they change. Thus, it's a mixed bag of what you could get. These artificially erected huts can be sacked and destroyed. Keep in mind I'm not a coder, so if you know what I'm describing is difficult, but know how to do something similar, please say so. 
Flavour: This gives people the feeling of being able to set up their own little base camp for their own clan, without making a whole new village. The fact that each hut can only stock a small number of items, and also that it can be destoryed, means things don't get out of hand and make the original villages defunct. Each hut can also be plauged with low-demand items like crabs or mangoes, making the idea even for grifers, natives, enemies, outsiders and pirates.|
suggest_time=12:05, 3 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Rip Purr|Rip Purr]]|
suggest_comments=

*Building a hut could also require a certain number of driftwood pieces. --[[User:Rip Purr|Rip Purr]] 12:08, 3 June 2006 (BST)
*Ability to create minor base camps away from settlements is good (but for what practical purpose?), but the idea that the island would be flooded with "huts" all over, with the same icon and name as huts in settlements, I dont like that. This is supposed to a wild myseterious island, having huts all over would hurt that ambiance I think (Lower-tech base camps of some sort would not hurt it though.) If hut construction is implemented it would have to be very costly to avoid littering the entire map with them that's for sure. The other thing is, We have to be clear about what the purpose of these base camps would be, what practical benfit would they have. Would they have defense value? Could the builder elect to keep people out unless they are members of clan X or unless they are natives or unless they are Derbyites, etc? [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:59, 4 June 2006 (BST)
}}

Suggestions:Skills

2006-06-04T00:02:04Z

Arminius: /* Hut Construction (Simplified) */

{{:Suggestions/Header|page_type=Skills}}

==Skills==

===Planting/agriculture===
Both outsiders and natives with this skill should be able to plant trees (mango, banana) on fertile land. By clearing away jungle, and applying an example of the fruit of the tree you wish to plant, you could sow the seed. A tree of that type would then sprout X days later. This would open up for plantation, and help feed the villages/settlements. --[[User:DKChannelboredom|DKChannelboredom]] (2 March)

''Comments''
:Interesting idea, perhaps only a chance that a tree will grow, and to ensure a tree grows you have to plant a certain number of fruit of the same kind on the same block. Of course, does this mean that existing trees should occasionally die off, say if they get surrounded by 8 blocks of highest density jungle and the tree block is also highest density jungle.. maybe explained as something to do with lack of sunlight reaching the tree because of the amount of jungle around it. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 09:47, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
::Why not treat existing trees and planted trees separately? My initial thought is that if I did not have this skill, I would still like the opportunity to gather resources from a dependable source. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
----

=== Weapon Skills ===
The Warrior/Soldiers class should get weapon skills, like spear skills for the warrior and rifle skills for the soldier, make the soldiers skills make the rifle have better to hit then the natives spear but the rifle requires the searching of ammo, this makes the difference between natives and outsiders warrior classes more than the blowpipe and rifle (blowpipes do 1 less damage) EDIT: I ahnotice that the outsiders do indeed have rifle training, freshly added to the wiki I guess.-- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 11:07, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''

We have been doing some research(see the talk page in character classes) and it appears that warriors are no better at fighting(unless you count 10 extra hp as being really great) than any other class, correct me if I'm wrong but if there is no warrior only fighting skill what makes them warriors and not shamans w/ blowpipes(pardon the pun but they "blow") and +10hp? and if that is all they are how come soilders get extra skills? -- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 02:55, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

Also, if you've got a machete and the three melee skills, there's never any point in using a blowpipe (unless you've got 1AP left and a victim with only 4HP remaining). There should be a skill that increases the chances of hitting with a blowpipe, to at least 30% - especially since you have to search for darts. Viveca Lindfors, 6 March 2006, 17:25 GMT

It should be over 30% as even at that it still makes blowpipes worse than the heavy sword(which while apparently being really rare itdoesn't mean everybody can't search and find one and 5 dam 45%[2.25 dam/ap] outclasses even 4 dam, search ammo, 2ap per shot, 80%![approaxamitly 1.6 dam/ap not counting search ap] anyday, hell the heavy sword is the uberest weapon in the game![the rifle is 5 dam, 1.5 ap/shot,60%=2dam/ap not counting searching!]) I think you should at least be able to make them have the same to hit as the rifle, It would be balanced by the fact you can only load a single dart at a time(i think),they have lower damage, but you can find darts in more places (check the regular search odds page you'll see they were found in d10 jungle!) I could see this fact alone justify the lower damage and single shot load, but not the lower to hit chance. Unless of course poison darts actually poison(has anybody checked this out?) then I see why they have a low to hit, you can dart somebody, run away then they would die trying to find you, But even if they do poison, outsiders can use them too(with a skill) so I still believe native warriors should be more effective at darting then any other class to balance the superiority of rifles.But all in all problems are solved if blowpipes get some skills to raise to hit% and the heavy sword is removed for being too uber(just cause it is rare doesn't mean we all can't/won't find it!) --[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 23:09, 9 March 2006 (GMT)

Maybe there can be a skill to create blowpipe darts (with poison berries or snakes)
----

=== Religious Devotion ===
Required to use "Holy Scriptures" --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
----

=== Jungle Skills ===
The jungle environment has great potential to add significant dynamic to this game. These could be a set of skills to reflect this.
: Jungle Lore: Player has x% chance of discovering item/artifact. Might work in conjunction with search skill.
: Make/Detect Traps: Spikes, Pits etc... Not sure this is possible and what would be need to time degrade this.[[User:Nankilstlas|Nankilstlas]]
: Some kind of "hiding" skill where you can spend AP to conceal yourself in fauna, so you can't be seen by passersby. Visually, it could take the form of "reforesting" a block to dark green, and someone who chops through would "uncover" you, perhaps getting some XP? --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 19:34, 25 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
:: A 'trapping' skill looks like it would be exploited by greifers (surrounding someone with traps, for example), but I like the 'Hiding' and 'Jungle Lore' ideas.--[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 02:26, 26 February 2006 (GMT)
:: The hiding skill shouldn't conceal you from animals or someone with the Sixth Sense, Exploration, or Jungle Lore skills, otherwise the player would be invincible.--[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 21:15, 27 February 2006 (GMT)
:::Agreed, hostile animals should be able to sniff out hidden players, and Sixth Sense makes sense as well. Hidden players have to remain motionless to stay hidden, using items, searching, etc, would "unhide" the person. I was also thinking how the "reforesting" aspect could be abused to create vast areas that needed to be chopped down, so maybe a player could only hide in an already dark green area, (getting a message like ''there is not enough foliage to suitable hide in'' when trying in a cleared area) limiting its effect somewhat, and creating a little extra tension when on the run from someone and trying to find an overgrown area to hide in. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 22:37, 27 February 2006 (GMT)
:::: I like the hiding skill, maybe with different AP required depending on jungle density. Also, first hidden could make you invisible from 2 squares away, while hiding further would hide you from any adjacent square, and a third hide would keep you hidden on the same square unless they chopped. --[[User:Qberry|Qberry]] 3/29/06
::::like the hiding thing as well, maybe it could work in that if you use it then you are only visible if they are in the same square as you? it would certainly keep you quite hidden anyway. -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 15:42, 28 March 2006 (BST)
----

=== Skinning ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill addition|
suggest_scope=All classes|
suggest_description=This is a skill that does not have a pre-requisite. Upon coming across an area where a dead animal is present, the player is given an opportunity to skin the animal. The process of skinning costs 1 AP and has a chance of producing items such as '''Animal Hide''' or '''Animal Tooth''' or '''Animal Feathers'''. These items can be traded to an NPC found in villages and exchanged for Gold Coins. This skill should be available to all classes to grant them all with an equal opportunity of earning Gold.
* Extend skinning to killed players? No, that's just wrong. We are civilized.
* Make skinning have a pre-requisite of '''Exploration'''? Perhaps.
* Make skinning always produce an item, rather than chance? No, I like a good challenge.
* Perhaps it could be tied to the Meat suggestion? Possibly.|
suggest_time=21:48, 23 February 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

* Good idea, perhaps natives don't have a pre-requisite, but outsiders need exploration? *cough* --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 02:12, 26 February 2006 (GMT)
** While that may be a more realistic way to handle it - since natives would conceivably be more experienced with such matters - I think that changing the skill tree for such a minor skill would upset the general sense of game balance between the two sides. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 02:43, 26 February 2006 (GMT)

}}

=== Animal Spirit ===
(native only) Upon gaining this skill, an animal type is associated with the player. Any attacks by the player on that animal result in negative xp, but the animal is less likely to attack the player. Additionally, if the player dons the skin of the animal (perhaps via the Skinning skill) then a bonus is given to the player, such as faster movement, hit bonus, damage bonus. Bonus could be dependant on animal. Upon player death, there is a chance the player's animal spirit will change. --frisco

''Comments''
*Suggestions like this usually make me cringe. Can't really explain why. Could you elaborate, though, on the bonuses gained?--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 17:06, 3 May 2006 (BST)
----

=== Build Training ===
(Outsiders only) They gain the ability to build walls around the outsider settlements. There would be different levels like reinforced, light, massive, etc. Whoever can attack them and destroy them. Maybe there would be a skill for building gates? --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:33, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* Natives should be able to make walls too - think King Kong, plus if there are native ruins on this island, then they must still have some decent construction knowledge lingering around. However, Outsiders should have an "Advanced" skill that allows for stronger walls. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 04:41, 1 March 2006 (GMT)
:Yes, any human should be able to build, and they should ONLY be able to build in certain areas, so as not to have some group lay claim to a section of the island with key resources (assuming there are some). Also, it should take a LOT of AP. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:18, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
----

=== Trap Laying ===
(Native only) They can place one time use traps that dmg outsiders only. This skill can only be used in the jungle. Maybe a skill to be able to detect traps? --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:36, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* Again i'm thinking Outsiders could make traps too - some of them must have been hunters in the Old Country - but perhaps an Advanced skill for natives, leading to higher success rate, since they are more used to the environment. This skill seems dangerous, though, possibly leading to clans just laying traps in every single square of jungle, making it ridiculous for the other side. Perhaps a trap can only be made in certain jungle types, and only lasts until the jungle changes in level (either growing up naturally or down by the same character type chopping it). --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 04:53, 1 March 2006 (GMT)
:This was already proposed in the "jungle skills" section. I agree, it seem too easy to abuse by griefers.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:18, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
----

===Comment Cartography===
Applies to Natives & Outsiders, most likely best applied only to the classes, scouts & explorers. I am thinking that it would be great to get more out of the map. This skill would allow those who have it to be able to add a limited number of short comments to their maps. These comments could work as references so as to be able to use the map to help find points of interest at some other time. I could see this probably difficult to implement, but perhaps it could work in that one could click in a quadrant on the map which would reload the page and allow you to add a text comment / description to a form. This text comment on a save would place a reference number on that quadrant of the map and the text would be listed to the right or below the map with accompanying reference number. -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 17:05, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
*This is a great idea, I am not an explorer/scout but I am all for class-specific skills, that are in character, because as of right now there aren't too many differences(which I'm guessing will change.-- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]]00:37, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

*I think this is a great idea too, and very much the way a real cartogragher would operate, making small notations as they explored and surveyed.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:49, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

*I've been spoiled by the GPS and haven't really found myself lost enough to need this skill. However, with the random revival change I can imagine that getting lost in the jungle is becoming frequently more common for new players. I had a difficult time accepting the point-and-click location feature. I'm not sure how that could be handled simply. I also considered allowing the player to input X and Y coordinates directly, but that seemed out of character for Natives. One possibility that I settled on was a simple "Add Location" button on map.cgi to document the current location. It would change that map.cgi square to a different color and prompt the player to input a description. Ten location points with unique colors and descriptions will be listed under the map to serve as a key. You could either make this listing a queue (pushing out the oldest entries) or locked at 10 until one of the locations are deleted by the player. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 09:01, 11 May 2006 (BST)
----

=== Revive skill ===
Applies to doctors and shamans, a skill to revive spirits, would require Sixth sense (obviously). It is simple enough premis: a skill that revives dead players similar to the regular shamans instead of requiring them to go to town shamans, the revive players aren't as skilled at the craft so the revived players would have only 80% of there hp when revived by other players. --[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 00:43, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* Does raise a risk of multi-abuse, but I agree that player shamen should have this ability. Maybe it requires a special powder or item in order to do?--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:49, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
* I am trying to think of some cost right now but can't decide. I do know that the xp gain rate should be comparable to fighting(and healing when there are more players) so players will want to be a revive player. --[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 01:41, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
*I don't like the idea of Doctors getting the ability to revive the dead, but that's definitely within the rights of a shaman. Sixth Sense as a requirement, and you must be standing in the same area as a spirit. Give either a 100% chance to work and a relatively high AP cost (10?) or a lower chance to work and lower AP cost. Blam. There you go. Player shamans can now do their part.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:18, 28 March 2006 (BST)
*Haven't been around in a bit..... anyways I was just thinking that it seems mighty easy to get levels by "camping" the "enemy" shamen and getting hordes of xp and tonnes of native/outsider kills this seems like an exploit of the current system of revives. If a player aided revive method is put into place the main shamans should be removed, or you can only be revived by your home shaman by the call shaman(or whatever it is called) button to prevent this xp farming. I thought of this because my level 3 pirate has got all his xp from doing this and it is mighty easy and with the Ubermap and stuff it is even easyer to do, though pirates will need a way to get revived by there own.....lol I just realized I put doctor instead of scientist doctor=scientist - [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 02:51, 4 April 2006 (BST)
----

===Polymorph===
Requires Animal Spirit. Allows character to take the form of an animal. Perhaps one skill per animal, and each transform requires the use of an (AP expensive) animal mask. Upon transforming, people around you cannot tell it is you. If you die as an animal, you turn back to human, having lost half the HP the animal lost. To allow polymorph for outsiders, maybe a skill like "Ancient Reading" with the presumption that this allows them to read the right glyphs in the ruins would give them the ability to learn this skill. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 03:52, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* I like the idea of having some kind of weird supernatural kind of skill for the natives... But, I think that if you get killed while in animal form, you should be dead and have to seek the assistance of a shaman. Because all the natives would do when logging out is morph into an elephant. That's a boat load of HP for someone to whittle down and kill, only to have the human pop out and have to be hacked away at. Granted, nobody will KNOW outright that the person has assumed the guise of an animal. Would you propose that if someone "kills" the animal form they get the XP bonus of killing an animal? -- [[User:Schmeckel|Schmeckel]] 06:09, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
*Special masks that turn you into animals? They'd need to be quite hard to make, maybe special wood from a certain type of tree, a bit of the animal and something to stick it together. It'd have to be harder to get the ones for better animals. [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 12:19, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
----

===Will o' the Wisp===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill addition|
suggest_scope=Spirits (all classes)|
suggest_description=Will o' the Wisp (can't think of another name) is a potentially simple skill to give a little more incentive to play as a spirit for a bit. It is a sub-skill of '''Ghostly whisper'''. If a player possesses this skill, then as a spirit they will have an option to "Wisp" for 30 AP. Wisping operates on a similar mechanic as the Flare guns and Feeding groans in Urban Dead. Any players posessing '''Sixth Sense''' within a 5x5 range of the spirit will be informed: ''A faint flicker of light catches your eye (x blocks east/west), (y blocks north/south). (timestamp)''.

This skill also has the potential to stack. More spirits on the same square will produce a brighter effect. Possibly in base 5. Ranging from faint flicker, slight illumination, to brilliant flash.

Fixes that I made last minute: reduced the Wisp range and upped the Wisp cost in an attempt to reduce spamming, also making Sixth Sense a prerequisite for recognizing Wisps as it would otherwise nerf the skill to a degree.|
suggest_time=07:53, 25 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

* I like it. The AP cost might be a bit on the high side, but there may be other alternatives to reduce spamming. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 10:44, 25 March 2006 (GMT)
* What's the point of it? Or is there something I'm missing? I mean, is it just to light up for kicks? Wll o' the Wisps in folklore always attempted to lead travellers into dangerous parts of bogs, where they would find their doom. Since that isn't really an option (and since people, noticing this, would just stop paying attention to them), is there any practical use for this? Still neat, if there isn't, but better if there is.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:25, 28 March 2006 (BST)
** As a Shaman with Sixth Sense, I've only come across 1 spirit. I sought a means to encourage the realm of the living and the dead to interact more. It is admitedly mostly aimed towards flavor and roleplaying than mechanics. The most practical application would be to attract people to revive points (in the possibility that they are created). In retrospect, I now see that this suggestion overlaps with the '''Haunting Scream''' description to a fair degree. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:33, 28 March 2006 (BST)
::* Does it overlap? I haven't seen a Haunting Scream in action, yet. I'm all for flavor and RP skills, I just doubt that people woud bother with them too often without some mechanical benefit, which would be a shame. I'll admit, though, that I hadn't thought of attracting shamans to get yourself revived.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 06:48, 29 March 2006 (BST)

}}

===Construction===
construction points, would be implemented and would act like exp, but players earn it by setting up camp, ex: 5exp everytime a player sets up his/her cabin, costs 10ap to set up, to keep from spamming and getting free exp.
*'''construction'''allow players to build 1(one) single hut per GAME that is collapsable, non collapsable, players out in the jungle would have to cut down the jungle to re-construct the hut
this would give players a reason to stay out in the jungle,

simply what it says, first off, we could/should have different buildings because i find it annoying to have to look around at the same picture not knowing where the trading post is. im implying that new icons be put in for huts, like the pirate ship, have different pictures, ex:
there is an armory hut, it's icon would be a hut with a silver tip/ sword on the roof
and etc...

SKILLS:
*'''hut maitenance'''
can change hut 1(one) time into another kind of hut ex: armory hut, extra chance of finding wpns etc
**'''cupboard''' accesible inventory in hut that players can "lock" and recieve a "key" item, other players could break open the "lock" for x amount of AP
*'''bed''' players in hut are shown the "get into bed" option which heals 2 hp every hour they arent logged in
**'''fluffy bed''' heals and extra 1-2 hp
*'''running water'''
if the hut is within x amount of squares to water, they can refill gourds and bottles (i think someone suggested we keep empty bottles, this would require that to be implemented)
*'''fire-pit''' players can cook meat (as suggested, only used if implemented)
*'''craftmanship'''players can see the hut's creator, ex: Richard's Hut, if skill isnt aquired, players see the hut as "dishevelled hut" or "ragged hut" etc.
*'''hut upgrade 1''' hut is given one extra ring of squares
**'''hut upgrade 2''' hut is given extra floor
***'''hut upgrade 3''' hut second floor is enlarged, door locks are given
****'''hut upgrade 4''' hut is given a basement

the use of hut upgrades is to help people hide, when upgrade 3 is given, and locks are attained, players can "lock" their houses up, requiring a devastating amount of AP to open, suggesting around 60-70 AP

*'''house trap 1''' spike trap, inflicts 1 wound
**'''house trap 2''' heavy spike trap, 1 wound and 3 dmg
*'''house trap 3''' blast trap, 7 hp
**'''house trap 4''' heavy blast trap 14 hp

traps are triggered upon breaking into a house, players can attain a new skill:
*'''lockpick''' breaking in only costs 30 AP
with this skill, traps are disabled

*'''animal cage'''
if animal trapping were implemented, then this would keep them from running away when u died,
**'''animal care''' animal care section of the house, determining your pet's status ex:
Richard clicks the button "give pet food" mr whiskers smiles and gobbles it up. it could also just be flavor text, and a way to get rid of meat.
*'''attack animal'''
player buys skill animal now acts like trap, player types in names of people allowed to be in house, anyone not on the list is attacked by animal, animal is treated as "wild" to intruders, as per, it will follow them several blocks away from the house before returning, and can be killed, but is also agressive no matter what breed. ex: mr.parrot attack john doe for 2 dammage and returns home.
**'''rabidity''' animal is now "rabid" and has a 20% chance of "infecting" (wound) the intruding player

other tidings can be added, ex:
*'''taxidermy''' players can pick up dead bodies and mount them in their house ex:
in the second story of richard's hut is a grey elephant head, mounted on oak

my finale,
*'''garden''' allows players to plant a tree/ bush 1 square away from their house, planting requires, 5 of the said fruit and the plants disappear when the hut is packed up, players also have the ability to "kill" the plant and re-grow a different one.
**'''green thumb''' allows players to garden for only 3 fruits
**'''verdant thumb''' allows players to change to growths around their house, ex: a house surrounded by dirt can be changed to light undergrouwth or heavy forest
**'''spade''' allows player to dig a "cellar" 1-3 squares away from house to "hide" or store items.
skill also allows players to loacte any tunnels within 5X5 of the checked area. players can only check within a 3X3 area around the house

house experience does not raise everytime a skill is bought, but the price is set at 100-200 (your choice)

"comments Below"

Sounds like it would be a good idea if the island was bigger but otherwise a 3x3 would be gigantic if everyone had one--[[User:Slith|Slith]] 21:40, 29 March 2006 (BST)
*not really, but the huts are still the same single square size on the outside, it is the inside that changes. --[[User:Richard Rose|Richard Rose]]

I think it would be better to implement this skill while implementing clans - i.e. having clan camps. One way to implement this would be to establish camp/ a hut automatically when a certain number of players from a given clan stand on a single square. This would reward organization and prevent individual players from spamming. In addition, I think that having all those additions as skills is unnessacary. I just adds uneeded complexity. Again, clan based operation seems to be the best way to do this.--[[User:Gandhi|Gandhi]] 00:47, 31 March 2006 (BST)
----

===Plunder===
{{suggestion|
suggest_time=07:15, 30 March 2006 (BST)|
suggest_type=Skill|
suggest_scope=Pirates|
suggest_description=So. Pirates have been added, at long last. We all love pirates. They're swarthy, greedy people. Like mobsters, only with eyepatches, bandanas, peg legs, parrots, and the clap. There's something lacking in the pirates on Shartak, though. To get a better idea of this, let's look at the check list.

[x] 1. Pirate ship

[x] 2. Swarthy attitude

[x] 3. Pirate lingo

[x] 4. Murder

[ ] 5. Plunder

Aha! So we've identified the problem: a distinct lack of plunder. For this reason, I've come up with the idea for a plunderin' skill. Now, when you kill some poor sap, you take one coin out of his inventory per level--his level, that is. This keeps it a little balanced, in that you won't be taking away the life savings of some poor little level 1 when you kil him. Unless he happens to have only 1 coin, but that's neither here nor there. Now, of course, if you kill a level 5 who only has 4 coins, you'll only get those 4 coins. If he has 6 coins, however, you'll only get 5 of them.

Is it overpowering pirates to give them this class-restricted skill? Not really. I mean, despite being a combat class, they can't really get any good with rifles. Pretty much all of their kills are made with a cutlass. And what's the real usage of the gold coins? Typically, to buy ammunition. Obviously, the pirates won't be using it on that, as they're terrible shots. They'll just buy themselves some medical supplies, some back-up weapons, and hoard the rest. I can't say I know that many players who hold onto the coins, anyways, though I'm sure there must be some. Still, they generally tend to be spent pretty quickly. Really, I just think that this could lend pirates a little more depth; sure, they're fellow outsiders, but can you trust them? How quickly will they cut your throat for you wallet?

So... Thoughts? Agreement? Death threats?|
suggest_author=[[User:Wifey|Wifey]]|
suggest_comments=

*'''Keep/Change''' (Yarr) I agree that this fits with theme and perhaps rightfully rewards Pirates in that they do not have a Trader NPC at the shipwreck (at least that was the case when I left it several days ago). And I'm glad that this is being presented as a purchasable skill (I believe?) rather than an inherent one. I do generally follow one of the basic tenets of UD - "Don't <del>Tread On Me</del> Mess With My Inventory!" But gold appears to have become fairly plentiful with the Trader NPC; having more gold than your current level is a fairly easy feat and losing gold won't lead to an entirely unpleasant gaming experience. However, I would like a few more mechanics set in place to minimize the avenues to zerging, griefing, and general abuse that this suggestion would open up. The only simple amendment I can think of may be to give '''Plunder''' a percent chance of success. Perhaps allowing for degrees of advanced plundering skills. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 20:07, 30 March 2006 (BST)
**'''RE:''' A very good point. Very good points from both of you. I had thought of a % chance when I was originally writing the suggestion, but I realized that the nwe'd be dealing with an X% chance to get Y% of the other player's coins, and I thought it might be a little more work on the server than necessary. I thought, perhaps a chence of getting only 1 coin, but that seemed just silly. Perhaps we could limit the pirate to only 1 plunder per day (or maybe a few more, if people feel that 1 is too few)? For example, if you killed John Smith the level 1 Explorer and took 1 coin from him, then killed Mr. Moneybags the level 16 with more coins than you can shake a stick at, you would get no coins from him. If you were to wait a day, though, and kill Mr. Moneybags ''then'', you would get 16 coins--and no more from anyone else for the rest of the day. Additionally, you would not be able ot get money from the same person twice in a row. So if, after killing Mr. Moneybags and taking half of his coins, you killed him the next day, you would get none. You might as well have gone for poor little John Smith. That eliminates griefing, and all it would need to do is keep track of the ID of the last person you killed, checking it the next time you kill someone 24+ hours later..--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 23:29, 30 March 2006 (BST)
*i agree with both of them, and with you, id love to see this flavor added, and the trader NPC at the pirate camp has yet to be found, so they would have to go to another village to use it. the closest village (where my pirate is) is dalpok, which, is, as you know native. this hostility would mean pirates would REALLY have to work to hoard medical supplies and weapons, thusly this would be well balanced. i also want to discuss the % success rate. as pirates are VERY good at "plundering" the % chance success rate should start at a reasonably high %, such as 50% and above. as putting it any lower would simply be ridiculous. there could be several level ups to raise the % but if there are no advanced levels then i suggest putting the starting % at around 75%. --[[User:Richard Rose|Richard Rose]]

*'''Plunder''' could be made a search skill (concievably the second skill in the plunder grouping). Rather than having it be merely equivalent to scavenging the plunder skill could only be used in villages (it wouldn't matter if they were native or outsider villages). Scavenging could similarly be changed to a jungle-only skill. Repeatedly plundering a square would deplete it much like chopping down a square of jungle, and squares would replenish over time much the same way. Whether this affects the search odds for other players is open to debate. I'd hate for the pirate class to be burning every other class in the game by plundering all the villages to the point nobody could find a rifle. The odds of finding a broken item should increase while plundering. The more refined the item the greater the chance it would be broken when a pirate plunders it (GPS, first aid kits, rifles, dart guns and any other delicate manufactured items to come being more likely to be broken). It would give people on the island something to do other than filling out the map and hunting game. Since we could then expect groups of pirates moving from village to village it would also increase player interaction (violently or otherwise). Having a wider range of broken items could necessitate a repair skill for players or a similar service that could be provided by a trader adding another level to the game's economy. -[http://www.shartak.com/profile.cgi?id=242 Tyler Whitney]

*With the new "stuff breaks/crit hit" along with traders gold has a major use, instead of searching for that cutlass(or machete both break) you can go trade your hard earned gold coins for a weapon, why stop at just coins? pirates could get this skill and should just take away 1 random item (any item) plus a few gold coins, as we all know pirates didn't just take gold they took anything of value. Though level ones should be completly immune to this and the maximum value of the item you take(based on how many gold coins it takes to trade for the item) should be equal to there level, or some other method all I know is items should get stolen along with coins, you can only get killed once (as of right now) before going back to a village so it doesn't do too much, I mean 1 item? even if it was my machete(whom I call Mary) I wouldn't mind, sure my ghost would scream and haunt the bastard who took her away from me that would just add a new level of fun to the game. As a native(with a pirate alt) I support this skill, though it would entail a new top ten richest in the statistics page so the pirates would know who to hunt.... mwahaha -[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 03:09, 4 April 2006 (BST)
**Now there's an interesting idea. Perhaps, though, there should then be a hierarchy of items in the eyes of a pirate? For instance, you take 1 item (which might be a gold coin) and one gold coin on the side. The gold coins on the side would increase with one's level. What would the item be, though? Probably first would be a gem. They're shiny and valuable--a pirate's favorite words (aside from "Arrrr!")! Next? A gold coin. Not enough coins? Probably a cutlass or machete. None of those? Rifle. No? Rifle bullet, then. None of those, either? Probably go with a first aid kit. Ah, but those are out, too? Bottle of water. And so on down the list. Bottle of water -> bottle of rum -> gourd of water/banana/berries -> knife/dagger. I doubt a pirate would bother with a blowgun or darts, nor would he yearn for his enemies' driftwood. Once again, just throwing an idea out, though.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 06:28, 4 April 2006 (BST)
*** To a Pirate, Rum would be more interesting than Water...[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 11:40, 28 May 2006 (BST)
**I think plundering items crosses into making this skill much to powerful. It lessens the need for the Pirate class to spend AP searching. They may lose a cutlass or two choppping another player to bits, but then they earn a machete in the kill and can continue on their way. Gold coins can be argued to be powerful, but the lack of a Trader at the shipwreck means they have to make their way to other Villages in order to spend them. After some further thinking, I feel that there should be a plundering cap of 10 coins regardless of level (otherwise it would be unfair to classes with class-specific skills that make them a higher level than others). And it is random chance after the kill produces no coins or some coins or all coins. If the player doesn't have enough coins, the Pirate plunders what he can and is given extra flavor text to reward them on their evil little victory. "Yo ho ho! You have taken all (Player)'s booty." --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 07:00, 4 April 2006 (BST)

*Plunder sounds nice. How about this formula: a pirate's chance of plundering someone equals 4 times the pirate's level minus 2 times the victim's level and always returns the lesser of half the victim's level in gold (rounded down) or all the victim's gold. In other words, if a level 10 pirate plunders a level 1 scientist with 10 gold, the pirate has a 38% chance of getting 0 gold, and if a level 10 pirate plunders a level 13 warrior with 2 gold, the pirate has a 14% chance of getting 2 gold. This simulates higher level non-pirates being more adept at hiding coin purses on their body, and prevents griefing on newbies. I agree with above comments that plunder should be a one time immediate event upon killing a character, based on a percentage chance, and limited to gold - anything else makes the skill too complex and/or powerful. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 13:39, 4 April 2006 (BST)
*I wouldn't support this unless pirates could be plundered ''from'', too, which kind of defeats the point. It's not like pirates are a weak class; the shipwreck has a trader now, and they start with 65 HP. I really like being able to count on having a static inventory while I'm logged out, and I think "Yarr, a pirate has killed you and plundered 1 gold coin" would get old very fast. I think it'd be quite cool if pirates were healed by 1 HP more for drinking beer or rum, but taking gold from their kills is too much. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 16:42, 28 May 2006 (BST)
*Yarr and Keep. I say this is a good addition. I believe all the classes should have some skill specific to them. I have a pirate and a scientist, and neither of them have anywhere special go to in terms of skills, thus making the distinction of them being scientists and pirates useless. Especially the scientist... 10 gold coins? What the? --[[User:Rip Purr|Rip Purr]] 10:53, 30 May 2006 (BST)


}}

===Diagnosis===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill addition, class-specific|
suggest_scope=Shaman and Scientist|
suggest_description=This is an attempt to create additional variety within the classes. Diagnosis would be a sub-skill of Triage available only to the Shaman and Scientist classes. It behaves much like Triage does, but it would detect Shark Bites and other possible future maladies and status ailments. Shark Bite victims could be identified with an asterisk next to their name. 
I believe that this skill's net benefits will be minimal. It would fit with the theme of the class, while not over-powering them. I also believe that since this is a sub-skill, that there should be additional class-specific skills for Shamans and Scientist.|
suggest_time=18:21, 6 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

* If Triage truly only does reveal one person's HP then the skill tree should be expanded for Advanced Triage as well. Where Advanced Triage would display the HP of everyone in the current area - rather than just the most wounded. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:55, 29 April 2006 (BST)
* Corrected usage of Doctor. I hope that this skill can still be considered in-character for Scientists. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:11, 11 May 2006 (BST)

}}

===Alchemy===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill addition, class-specific|
suggest_scope=Scientists|
suggest_description=Allows Scientists to convert seemingly useless items (such as driftwood) into valuables such as a gold coin. Another possibility is crabs into gems (don't ask). This would, of course, cost about 25 AP per use. This would give Scientists a key role in the game because they would be needed to convert intems.|
suggest_time=23:24, 8 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

*While I like the basic idea of this, it should be limited a little. That said, I don't know how one would appropriately limit its use. Perhaps you could turn a bottle of rum into a more refreshing bottle of water? How, precisely, would you envision the implementation of this?--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:18, 10 April 2006 (BST)
*I like it! It gives us something unique to do as scientists! Would you make it so you turn a specific useless item into a specific useful item, or what?[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 15:24, 10 April 2006 (BST)
**I imagine that eventually every class will have atleast one unique skill to separate it from the others and give a reason for choosing that class. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 01:30, 11 April 2006 (BST)
*I could accept this if it was presented differently. As it stands, it sort of conflicts with my expectation that the Natives are the more mystically-inclined and the Outsiders are more advanced technologically. I just don't envision men and women of science practicing alchemy. I have no objection to the scientist manufacturing items, but not in this manner. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 03:37, 11 April 2006 (BST)

}}

===Spirit Substantiation===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill|
suggest_scope=Sprits (all classes)|
suggest_description=The spirit has learned to partially substantiate its form, becoming more physical, and can now float on the winds to move at double the normal rate (i.e. .5 AP per move), but only in the direction that the wind is blowing. Note that this requires the game element of wind, which can either be a uni-directional constant (e.g. always blows west) or changes over time (perhaps dependant on location?). If wind direction changes, the game's user interface will need a mechanism to display wind direction, either via game.cgi or added to map.html.

This could be the first in a series of new spirit skills. I see the aforementioned Will o' the Wisp being under this tree, as well as another skill to move .3 AP per move but still only in the direction of the wind. Perhaps some poltergeist type skills can be added as well - allow dead pirates to plunder, any spirit to write messages, any spirit to still map out the area, etc, etc.
|
suggest_time=16:40, 14 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Frisco|Frisco]]|
suggest_comments=

* Nice idea, what would happen to moving against the wind? Would that then require 2AP and 1 AP to move at 90 degrees to the wind direction :) --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 17:33, 14 April 2006 (BST)
** I was thinking of substantiation as being a conceptual (not a user toggle switch, something the game system automatically determines) on/off capability of the ghost, so the ghost could have no form and thus no penalty for moving into the wind, then take form and move with the wind. But that's mostly because i don't like the idea of skills that negatively affect a character. I definitely think wind should adversely affect other things, like pigeons taking longer to deliver if the recipient is upwind. It's all more math for you! --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 17:49, 14 April 2006 (BST)

}}

===Marksmanship===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill modification and new skill|
suggest_scope=Anyone who uses a ranged weapon|
suggest_description=A few problems that I see with regard to rifle use: 1) Non-soldiers' extremely low maximum rifle accuracy making rifles useless to non-soldiers, 2) Loading rifles takes up a tremendous amount of AP since it costs one AP to load one bullet, leading to a very low damage-to-total-AP-spent ratio, 3) A closely related problem to #2 is the fact that people are carrying around 20 or 30 rifles/blowpipes, which is ridiculous and unrealistic, and a by-product of the AP cost to load. I dont know if the following idea for a solution to both of these problems can realisitically be implemented, but here goes: Change the Advanced Rifle Training skill to make loading rifle bullets cost 0 AP (advanced training would thus mean the abiliy to load rifles very easily and quickly, as opposed to untrained people who take much longer. We are in the time period when it took a long time to load rifles after all). Institute a new skill called Marksmanship in the firearms skill tree, which gives +__% rifle accuracy <s>(I would say +30%). Let marksmanship be a skill that can be acquired by anyone, while rifle training and advanced rifle training remain soldier-exlcusive. If Marksmanship gives +30%, it will improve non-soldiers' maximum accuracy from 20% to 50%, knocking out problem #1 above. Soldiers with the entire proposed rifle skill tree would have max accuracy of 70% and would not have to waste an AP to load, knocking out problem #2. Natives would get the same changes for blowpipe
note: It might be better to have two skills, Marksmanship and Expert Marksmaship, each giving +15% accuracy, and possibly make these two a seperate skill tree. If they were in the rifle training tree, they would have to come after the two rifle training skills, but non-soldiers cannot get rifle training, so it would look awkward.</s>

'''NOTE: [[User_talk:Arminius#Proposal_for_new_rifle_skill_tree|Revised proposal and statistical analysis of current vs. proposed damage-to-AP ratios, click here]]'''|
suggest_time=05:34, 13 May 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Arminius|Arminius]]|
suggest_comments=

*From a gameplay point of view, i don't see that guns/blowpipes need to be any stronger. It's already possible to take someone out in one go, why the need to kill quicker? The proposed change means with one gun and a full load of bullets, one soldier in one day causes an average of 75 * .7 * 4 = 210 HP damage - that's 2.4 pirates with stamina, or 4.2 beginner shamans. It would make the game a lot less fun to be able to die that much quicker and that much more often. Maybe i wouldn't object as much if these old school guns were also subject to backfiring, causing them to blow up in the owner's hands and resulting in owner HP loss and gun destruction (similar to machete/cutlass blade snapping). By the way, elsewhere there's been debate on the timeperiod of the game since we also have GPS units. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 20:00, 13 May 2006 (BST)
::You are calculating ''combat'' damage-to-AP ratio, the proposed modification of the advanced rifle training skill would not affect combat-damage-to-AP ratio very much (it would affect it not at all for people with lots of rifles), it would only affect the rifle's currently very low total overall damage-inflicted-to-AP-spent ratio. (With 28 fully-loaded rifles a soldier can already kill two 85-HP pirates in only 56 AP.) The rifle's total-damage-to-AP ratio today is 0.48 by my calculation, the machete's is 1.35. With the proposed changes, the maximum total-damage-to-AP ratio for a rifle-wielding soldier would be 0.7 (still far lower than machete). Non-soldiers max rifle total damage-to-AP ratio would improve from 0.16 (weaker than a level 0 character with a blunt machete) to 0.4. I like your suggestion of rifles possibly blowing up too, Simon should definitely consider that. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 20:28, 13 May 2006 (BST)

*I'm not sure how I feel about the skill yet, but I will correct you, Frisco, in that the GPS unit is not an adequate argument about the game's time period. Simon has already said that he doesn't like the name "GPS Unit" because it is anachronistic, and was considering another one.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:03, 14 May 2006 (BST)

* I don't quite see why rebuilding the skill tree is necessary. You could accomplish the same thing by introducing two new skills - one for accuracy which builds upon the existing accuracy skills and one for reloading. Make the first accuracy skill available to all classes (adjusting to 30%), but restrict the secondary accuracy skills to Warriors and Soldiers. But even then, I'm not completely sold on the fact that these skills are necessary. I have no problem with my non-Soldier not depending on a rifle. If I wanted to use a rifle, I can easily make a Soldier character. And while reducing reloading cost might bring rifles and blowpipes more evenly with machetes, increasing the damage or introducing the ranged attack suggestion might solve the problem without providing free lunches. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 02:31, 15 May 2006 (BST)
::Yes of course it's fine to make them new skills. I suggested it in the way I did because learning to load quickly would fall under rifle training I would say, and we already have the two rifle-training skills in the game. One of the accuracy-improving skills would fall under Marskmanship (or marskmanship/expert marksmanship). How they are added to the game is almost immaterial, the point is to let soldiers be able to acquire a skill which gets rid of their need to waste more than half their daily AP loading their 20 rifles, and get rid of the need to carry 20+ rifles in the first place. I dont see how a skill allowing for a 0 AP cost to load is a "free lunch" at all, it just reduces the price of a ridiculously high-priced lunch, i.e. 1 AP to load 1 bullet/dart (plus I feel it improves the realism of the game, in part by eliminating the need to carry around 25 rifles or blowpipes). The point of the Marksmanship skill (available to all) is not to put non-soldiers on the par with soldiers in firearms capability at all, but to make rifles non-worthless to everyone else. Currently non-soldiers are literally far better off ''punching'' enemies than using a rifle when it comes to damage-inflicted-per-AP-spent, which is just ridiculous. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 03:37, 15 May 2006 (BST)
:::I do like the idea of making rifle and blowpipe usage more accessible to other character classes. But I continue to have a difficult time accepting the 0 AP reload cost. Currently there is no action in the game that costs 0 AP besides rejecting a trade, speaking in empty area, healing someone at full health, and dropping an item (all non-actions). Would 0.5 AP would be an acceptable change? But before it is considered, there must be other alternatives before lowering AP cost to make the ranged weapons more balanced. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:27, 27 May 2006 (BST)
::::How about this-- modify advanced rifle training skill so that instead of "Gain another 20% on firearms attacks", it says "lets soldiers load and fire faster" (0.5 AP to load and to fire with that skill), in other words a rifle version of trekking. This would cut down on the excessive AP costs of rifle usage and be an interesting skill to balance rifles rather than another "add 20% accuracy" or something like that. Then two new skills, Marksmanship (+10% accuracy), Expert Marskmanship (+20% accuracy), both of which would be available to all character classes. I would envision the two marskmanship skills as the first two skills in the firearms tree (the only two available to non-soldiers), and then the rifle training skills would come afterwards. -[[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 20:00, 30 May 2006 (BST)
:::::'''UPDATE:''' To see a revised version of my suggestion '''[[User_talk:Arminius#Proposal_for_new_rifle_skill_tree|Click Here]].''' I worked out the current and proposed damage-to-AP ratios, and I invite everyone to take a look. It is far too long and complicated to copy here, so I wrote it up elsewhere. -[[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 01:44, 2 June 2006 (BST)
:*As discussed elsewhere, ''carrying loaded rifles as backup allows you to lock in the kill bonus'' on a much wider range of (remaining-AP/remaining-victim-HP) situations. Since the '''kill bonus is more than a third of total XP for combat''', this throws the naive XP=damage comparisons way out of whack. Anecdotally at least, my Soldier has clearly done better than my other characters in jungle XP-harvesting, because kill-steals and dying while asleep are so common. So while the Rifle (and especially the Blowpipe) needs help, I think that nearly doubling combat-time damage to 2x 50% 5 damage for 1 AP (5.0) instead of 1x 60% 5 damage (3.0) is not an ideal way to proceed. I support Free Reload or Rapid Reload as a Soldier-Only Skill. I also think that an all-available accuracy upgrade for Rifle/Blowpipe (to at least better than Machete) would be great. For example: Base 20% (+General Accuracy +15%) (+Soldier-only Accuracy +15%) (+Soldier-only Accuracy +15%). Or maybe Base 10% (+General Accuracy +25%) (+Soldier-only Accuracy +25%) (+Soldier-only Rapid Reload), and increase Rifle Bullet base damage to 6. Two shots per AP just seems too big a jump to me; imho implementing true range (firing from adjacent square and/or without provoking return melee attacks) is a better way to proceed. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 03:56, 2 June 2006 (BST)
::*Yes the blowpipe needs help even more than the rifle. That limited-AP poisoning skill, along with these proposed boosts to accuracy, would even things out there. I also like the idea of making ranged weapons truly ranged, but that seems difficult to implement and perhaps impractical (for one thing we cant see the names of people on adjacent squares). If any version of QBerry's "auto attack" is ever implemented for players, though it seems unlikely with so much opposition, the "range" of the ranged weapon could come into play by not allowing a person without ranged weapons/ammo to back. This was discussed on the forums in the "Aggressive Animals" thread. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 06:01, 2 June 2006 (BST)
:*NB about Free Reload: Incidentally, Free Reload obviously solves the "realism problem" by allowing a Soldier to carry only one Rifle and a huge pile of Bullets, with '''no increase''' in Soldier combat-time damage-per-AP (still 3.0 max avg per AP) nor Soldier field-capacity damage-per-inventoryfull (still 72 shots) since 2 Bullets loose take up as much space as a Loaded Rifle. People who think that 0AP reload is imbalancing have been smoking too much of the dried herbs. As for realism of 0AP reload, the Soldier's "1AP to fire" accounts for time necessary to both reload and fire. I can discuss and reject 160 exchanges with the Trader and or attempt to heal a signpost in the same amount of time. The real-time form submission and IP hit creates a perceptible time-increment. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 03:56, 2 June 2006 (BST)

After thinking about this, it seems to me that the best thing to do is as follows: No new skill, instead simply a change in the game mechanics so that all players take 0 AP to "load" by deafult. The AP cost to fire would thereby represent the time to load and fire, as Tycho44 said above. (Load was in quotation marks there because the load button in-game would thus really represent selecting the bullet to use, the actual action of loading would be included in the 1 AP to fire). This would eliminate the 30 rifles problem straight away (and for all character classes), it would ''not'' increase the combat damage-to-AP ratio at all, and it would be an interesting way to increase the damage-to-''total''-AP-spent ratio (which we need) without having to add any new skill. As for the accuracy boosts, those can be worked out later (non-soldiers need a boost in that department we all agree, perhaps soldiers merit a slight one), but 0 AP to "load" is definitely a sound change to make, I see no argument against it. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 23:11, 3 June 2006 (BST)


}}

===Hut Construction (Simplified) ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill, item, action|
suggest_scope=Every player|
suggest_description=This is a bit similar to the Construction suggestion, but much more simplified. I agree that we should be able to set up little camps, to have bases away from bases. I'll explain the flavour aspect after I've explained the mechanics. 
A skill can be purchased called, "Construction", which allows you to erect a hut on land that has been chopped down to 0 density. The hut would have a bit of AP weight to build, say 10ap cost so that full constuction on a 10 dense jungle sq would have a total of 20ap. The hut that you build is at first a regular empty hut. Once you have bought the second skill in the set, "Stock Hut" (or something like that), the hut becomes a mini trade-post, stocking no more than 5 types of items at any one point. The first 5 items are randomized, and then as people trade, they change. Thus, it's a mixed bag of what you could get. These artificially erected huts can be sacked and destroyed. Keep in mind I'm not a coder, so if you know what I'm describing is difficult, but know how to do something similar, please say so. 
Flavour: This gives people the feeling of being able to set up their own little base camp for their own clan, without making a whole new village. The fact that each hut can only stock a small number of items, and also that it can be destoryed, means things don't get out of hand and make the original villages defunct. Each hut can also be plauged with low-demand items like crabs or mangoes, making the idea even for grifers, natives, enemies, outsiders and pirates.|
suggest_time=12:05, 3 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Rip Purr|Rip Purr]]|
suggest_comments=

*Building a hut could also require a certain number of driftwood pieces. --[[User:Rip Purr|Rip Purr]] 12:08, 3 June 2006 (BST)
*Ability to create minor base camps away from settlements is good (but for what practical purpose?), but the idea that the island would be flooded with "huts" all over, with the same icon and name as huts in settlements, I dont like that. This is supposed to a wild myseterious island, having huts all over would hurt that ambiance I think. (Lower-tech base camps of some sort would not hurt it.) If hut construction is implemented it would have to be very costly to avoid littering the entire map with them. The other thing is, We have to be clear about what the purpose of these base camps would be, what practical benfit would they have. Would they have defense value? Could the builder elect to keep people unless they are members of clan X or unless they are natives or unless they are Derbyites, etc? [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:59, 4 June 2006 (BST)
}}

Suggestions:Skills

2006-06-03T23:59:11Z

Arminius: /* Hut Construction (Simplified) */

{{:Suggestions/Header|page_type=Skills}}

==Skills==

===Planting/agriculture===
Both outsiders and natives with this skill should be able to plant trees (mango, banana) on fertile land. By clearing away jungle, and applying an example of the fruit of the tree you wish to plant, you could sow the seed. A tree of that type would then sprout X days later. This would open up for plantation, and help feed the villages/settlements. --[[User:DKChannelboredom|DKChannelboredom]] (2 March)

''Comments''
:Interesting idea, perhaps only a chance that a tree will grow, and to ensure a tree grows you have to plant a certain number of fruit of the same kind on the same block. Of course, does this mean that existing trees should occasionally die off, say if they get surrounded by 8 blocks of highest density jungle and the tree block is also highest density jungle.. maybe explained as something to do with lack of sunlight reaching the tree because of the amount of jungle around it. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 09:47, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
::Why not treat existing trees and planted trees separately? My initial thought is that if I did not have this skill, I would still like the opportunity to gather resources from a dependable source. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
----

=== Weapon Skills ===
The Warrior/Soldiers class should get weapon skills, like spear skills for the warrior and rifle skills for the soldier, make the soldiers skills make the rifle have better to hit then the natives spear but the rifle requires the searching of ammo, this makes the difference between natives and outsiders warrior classes more than the blowpipe and rifle (blowpipes do 1 less damage) EDIT: I ahnotice that the outsiders do indeed have rifle training, freshly added to the wiki I guess.-- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 11:07, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''

We have been doing some research(see the talk page in character classes) and it appears that warriors are no better at fighting(unless you count 10 extra hp as being really great) than any other class, correct me if I'm wrong but if there is no warrior only fighting skill what makes them warriors and not shamans w/ blowpipes(pardon the pun but they "blow") and +10hp? and if that is all they are how come soilders get extra skills? -- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 02:55, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

Also, if you've got a machete and the three melee skills, there's never any point in using a blowpipe (unless you've got 1AP left and a victim with only 4HP remaining). There should be a skill that increases the chances of hitting with a blowpipe, to at least 30% - especially since you have to search for darts. Viveca Lindfors, 6 March 2006, 17:25 GMT

It should be over 30% as even at that it still makes blowpipes worse than the heavy sword(which while apparently being really rare itdoesn't mean everybody can't search and find one and 5 dam 45%[2.25 dam/ap] outclasses even 4 dam, search ammo, 2ap per shot, 80%![approaxamitly 1.6 dam/ap not counting search ap] anyday, hell the heavy sword is the uberest weapon in the game![the rifle is 5 dam, 1.5 ap/shot,60%=2dam/ap not counting searching!]) I think you should at least be able to make them have the same to hit as the rifle, It would be balanced by the fact you can only load a single dart at a time(i think),they have lower damage, but you can find darts in more places (check the regular search odds page you'll see they were found in d10 jungle!) I could see this fact alone justify the lower damage and single shot load, but not the lower to hit chance. Unless of course poison darts actually poison(has anybody checked this out?) then I see why they have a low to hit, you can dart somebody, run away then they would die trying to find you, But even if they do poison, outsiders can use them too(with a skill) so I still believe native warriors should be more effective at darting then any other class to balance the superiority of rifles.But all in all problems are solved if blowpipes get some skills to raise to hit% and the heavy sword is removed for being too uber(just cause it is rare doesn't mean we all can't/won't find it!) --[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 23:09, 9 March 2006 (GMT)

Maybe there can be a skill to create blowpipe darts (with poison berries or snakes)
----

=== Religious Devotion ===
Required to use "Holy Scriptures" --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
----

=== Jungle Skills ===
The jungle environment has great potential to add significant dynamic to this game. These could be a set of skills to reflect this.
: Jungle Lore: Player has x% chance of discovering item/artifact. Might work in conjunction with search skill.
: Make/Detect Traps: Spikes, Pits etc... Not sure this is possible and what would be need to time degrade this.[[User:Nankilstlas|Nankilstlas]]
: Some kind of "hiding" skill where you can spend AP to conceal yourself in fauna, so you can't be seen by passersby. Visually, it could take the form of "reforesting" a block to dark green, and someone who chops through would "uncover" you, perhaps getting some XP? --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 19:34, 25 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
:: A 'trapping' skill looks like it would be exploited by greifers (surrounding someone with traps, for example), but I like the 'Hiding' and 'Jungle Lore' ideas.--[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 02:26, 26 February 2006 (GMT)
:: The hiding skill shouldn't conceal you from animals or someone with the Sixth Sense, Exploration, or Jungle Lore skills, otherwise the player would be invincible.--[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 21:15, 27 February 2006 (GMT)
:::Agreed, hostile animals should be able to sniff out hidden players, and Sixth Sense makes sense as well. Hidden players have to remain motionless to stay hidden, using items, searching, etc, would "unhide" the person. I was also thinking how the "reforesting" aspect could be abused to create vast areas that needed to be chopped down, so maybe a player could only hide in an already dark green area, (getting a message like ''there is not enough foliage to suitable hide in'' when trying in a cleared area) limiting its effect somewhat, and creating a little extra tension when on the run from someone and trying to find an overgrown area to hide in. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 22:37, 27 February 2006 (GMT)
:::: I like the hiding skill, maybe with different AP required depending on jungle density. Also, first hidden could make you invisible from 2 squares away, while hiding further would hide you from any adjacent square, and a third hide would keep you hidden on the same square unless they chopped. --[[User:Qberry|Qberry]] 3/29/06
::::like the hiding thing as well, maybe it could work in that if you use it then you are only visible if they are in the same square as you? it would certainly keep you quite hidden anyway. -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 15:42, 28 March 2006 (BST)
----

=== Skinning ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill addition|
suggest_scope=All classes|
suggest_description=This is a skill that does not have a pre-requisite. Upon coming across an area where a dead animal is present, the player is given an opportunity to skin the animal. The process of skinning costs 1 AP and has a chance of producing items such as '''Animal Hide''' or '''Animal Tooth''' or '''Animal Feathers'''. These items can be traded to an NPC found in villages and exchanged for Gold Coins. This skill should be available to all classes to grant them all with an equal opportunity of earning Gold.
* Extend skinning to killed players? No, that's just wrong. We are civilized.
* Make skinning have a pre-requisite of '''Exploration'''? Perhaps.
* Make skinning always produce an item, rather than chance? No, I like a good challenge.
* Perhaps it could be tied to the Meat suggestion? Possibly.|
suggest_time=21:48, 23 February 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

* Good idea, perhaps natives don't have a pre-requisite, but outsiders need exploration? *cough* --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 02:12, 26 February 2006 (GMT)
** While that may be a more realistic way to handle it - since natives would conceivably be more experienced with such matters - I think that changing the skill tree for such a minor skill would upset the general sense of game balance between the two sides. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 02:43, 26 February 2006 (GMT)

}}

=== Animal Spirit ===
(native only) Upon gaining this skill, an animal type is associated with the player. Any attacks by the player on that animal result in negative xp, but the animal is less likely to attack the player. Additionally, if the player dons the skin of the animal (perhaps via the Skinning skill) then a bonus is given to the player, such as faster movement, hit bonus, damage bonus. Bonus could be dependant on animal. Upon player death, there is a chance the player's animal spirit will change. --frisco

''Comments''
*Suggestions like this usually make me cringe. Can't really explain why. Could you elaborate, though, on the bonuses gained?--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 17:06, 3 May 2006 (BST)
----

=== Build Training ===
(Outsiders only) They gain the ability to build walls around the outsider settlements. There would be different levels like reinforced, light, massive, etc. Whoever can attack them and destroy them. Maybe there would be a skill for building gates? --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:33, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* Natives should be able to make walls too - think King Kong, plus if there are native ruins on this island, then they must still have some decent construction knowledge lingering around. However, Outsiders should have an "Advanced" skill that allows for stronger walls. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 04:41, 1 March 2006 (GMT)
:Yes, any human should be able to build, and they should ONLY be able to build in certain areas, so as not to have some group lay claim to a section of the island with key resources (assuming there are some). Also, it should take a LOT of AP. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:18, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
----

=== Trap Laying ===
(Native only) They can place one time use traps that dmg outsiders only. This skill can only be used in the jungle. Maybe a skill to be able to detect traps? --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:36, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* Again i'm thinking Outsiders could make traps too - some of them must have been hunters in the Old Country - but perhaps an Advanced skill for natives, leading to higher success rate, since they are more used to the environment. This skill seems dangerous, though, possibly leading to clans just laying traps in every single square of jungle, making it ridiculous for the other side. Perhaps a trap can only be made in certain jungle types, and only lasts until the jungle changes in level (either growing up naturally or down by the same character type chopping it). --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 04:53, 1 March 2006 (GMT)
:This was already proposed in the "jungle skills" section. I agree, it seem too easy to abuse by griefers.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:18, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
----

===Comment Cartography===
Applies to Natives & Outsiders, most likely best applied only to the classes, scouts & explorers. I am thinking that it would be great to get more out of the map. This skill would allow those who have it to be able to add a limited number of short comments to their maps. These comments could work as references so as to be able to use the map to help find points of interest at some other time. I could see this probably difficult to implement, but perhaps it could work in that one could click in a quadrant on the map which would reload the page and allow you to add a text comment / description to a form. This text comment on a save would place a reference number on that quadrant of the map and the text would be listed to the right or below the map with accompanying reference number. -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]] 17:05, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
*This is a great idea, I am not an explorer/scout but I am all for class-specific skills, that are in character, because as of right now there aren't too many differences(which I'm guessing will change.-- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]]00:37, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

*I think this is a great idea too, and very much the way a real cartogragher would operate, making small notations as they explored and surveyed.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:49, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

*I've been spoiled by the GPS and haven't really found myself lost enough to need this skill. However, with the random revival change I can imagine that getting lost in the jungle is becoming frequently more common for new players. I had a difficult time accepting the point-and-click location feature. I'm not sure how that could be handled simply. I also considered allowing the player to input X and Y coordinates directly, but that seemed out of character for Natives. One possibility that I settled on was a simple "Add Location" button on map.cgi to document the current location. It would change that map.cgi square to a different color and prompt the player to input a description. Ten location points with unique colors and descriptions will be listed under the map to serve as a key. You could either make this listing a queue (pushing out the oldest entries) or locked at 10 until one of the locations are deleted by the player. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 09:01, 11 May 2006 (BST)
----

=== Revive skill ===
Applies to doctors and shamans, a skill to revive spirits, would require Sixth sense (obviously). It is simple enough premis: a skill that revives dead players similar to the regular shamans instead of requiring them to go to town shamans, the revive players aren't as skilled at the craft so the revived players would have only 80% of there hp when revived by other players. --[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 00:43, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* Does raise a risk of multi-abuse, but I agree that player shamen should have this ability. Maybe it requires a special powder or item in order to do?--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:49, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
* I am trying to think of some cost right now but can't decide. I do know that the xp gain rate should be comparable to fighting(and healing when there are more players) so players will want to be a revive player. --[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 01:41, 10 March 2006 (GMT)
*I don't like the idea of Doctors getting the ability to revive the dead, but that's definitely within the rights of a shaman. Sixth Sense as a requirement, and you must be standing in the same area as a spirit. Give either a 100% chance to work and a relatively high AP cost (10?) or a lower chance to work and lower AP cost. Blam. There you go. Player shamans can now do their part.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:18, 28 March 2006 (BST)
*Haven't been around in a bit..... anyways I was just thinking that it seems mighty easy to get levels by "camping" the "enemy" shamen and getting hordes of xp and tonnes of native/outsider kills this seems like an exploit of the current system of revives. If a player aided revive method is put into place the main shamans should be removed, or you can only be revived by your home shaman by the call shaman(or whatever it is called) button to prevent this xp farming. I thought of this because my level 3 pirate has got all his xp from doing this and it is mighty easy and with the Ubermap and stuff it is even easyer to do, though pirates will need a way to get revived by there own.....lol I just realized I put doctor instead of scientist doctor=scientist - [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 02:51, 4 April 2006 (BST)
----

===Polymorph===
Requires Animal Spirit. Allows character to take the form of an animal. Perhaps one skill per animal, and each transform requires the use of an (AP expensive) animal mask. Upon transforming, people around you cannot tell it is you. If you die as an animal, you turn back to human, having lost half the HP the animal lost. To allow polymorph for outsiders, maybe a skill like "Ancient Reading" with the presumption that this allows them to read the right glyphs in the ruins would give them the ability to learn this skill. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 03:52, 10 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* I like the idea of having some kind of weird supernatural kind of skill for the natives... But, I think that if you get killed while in animal form, you should be dead and have to seek the assistance of a shaman. Because all the natives would do when logging out is morph into an elephant. That's a boat load of HP for someone to whittle down and kill, only to have the human pop out and have to be hacked away at. Granted, nobody will KNOW outright that the person has assumed the guise of an animal. Would you propose that if someone "kills" the animal form they get the XP bonus of killing an animal? -- [[User:Schmeckel|Schmeckel]] 06:09, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
*Special masks that turn you into animals? They'd need to be quite hard to make, maybe special wood from a certain type of tree, a bit of the animal and something to stick it together. It'd have to be harder to get the ones for better animals. [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 12:19, 11 March 2006 (GMT)
----

===Will o' the Wisp===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill addition|
suggest_scope=Spirits (all classes)|
suggest_description=Will o' the Wisp (can't think of another name) is a potentially simple skill to give a little more incentive to play as a spirit for a bit. It is a sub-skill of '''Ghostly whisper'''. If a player possesses this skill, then as a spirit they will have an option to "Wisp" for 30 AP. Wisping operates on a similar mechanic as the Flare guns and Feeding groans in Urban Dead. Any players posessing '''Sixth Sense''' within a 5x5 range of the spirit will be informed: ''A faint flicker of light catches your eye (x blocks east/west), (y blocks north/south). (timestamp)''.

This skill also has the potential to stack. More spirits on the same square will produce a brighter effect. Possibly in base 5. Ranging from faint flicker, slight illumination, to brilliant flash.

Fixes that I made last minute: reduced the Wisp range and upped the Wisp cost in an attempt to reduce spamming, also making Sixth Sense a prerequisite for recognizing Wisps as it would otherwise nerf the skill to a degree.|
suggest_time=07:53, 25 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

* I like it. The AP cost might be a bit on the high side, but there may be other alternatives to reduce spamming. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 10:44, 25 March 2006 (GMT)
* What's the point of it? Or is there something I'm missing? I mean, is it just to light up for kicks? Wll o' the Wisps in folklore always attempted to lead travellers into dangerous parts of bogs, where they would find their doom. Since that isn't really an option (and since people, noticing this, would just stop paying attention to them), is there any practical use for this? Still neat, if there isn't, but better if there is.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:25, 28 March 2006 (BST)
** As a Shaman with Sixth Sense, I've only come across 1 spirit. I sought a means to encourage the realm of the living and the dead to interact more. It is admitedly mostly aimed towards flavor and roleplaying than mechanics. The most practical application would be to attract people to revive points (in the possibility that they are created). In retrospect, I now see that this suggestion overlaps with the '''Haunting Scream''' description to a fair degree. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:33, 28 March 2006 (BST)
::* Does it overlap? I haven't seen a Haunting Scream in action, yet. I'm all for flavor and RP skills, I just doubt that people woud bother with them too often without some mechanical benefit, which would be a shame. I'll admit, though, that I hadn't thought of attracting shamans to get yourself revived.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 06:48, 29 March 2006 (BST)

}}

===Construction===
construction points, would be implemented and would act like exp, but players earn it by setting up camp, ex: 5exp everytime a player sets up his/her cabin, costs 10ap to set up, to keep from spamming and getting free exp.
*'''construction'''allow players to build 1(one) single hut per GAME that is collapsable, non collapsable, players out in the jungle would have to cut down the jungle to re-construct the hut
this would give players a reason to stay out in the jungle,

simply what it says, first off, we could/should have different buildings because i find it annoying to have to look around at the same picture not knowing where the trading post is. im implying that new icons be put in for huts, like the pirate ship, have different pictures, ex:
there is an armory hut, it's icon would be a hut with a silver tip/ sword on the roof
and etc...

SKILLS:
*'''hut maitenance'''
can change hut 1(one) time into another kind of hut ex: armory hut, extra chance of finding wpns etc
**'''cupboard''' accesible inventory in hut that players can "lock" and recieve a "key" item, other players could break open the "lock" for x amount of AP
*'''bed''' players in hut are shown the "get into bed" option which heals 2 hp every hour they arent logged in
**'''fluffy bed''' heals and extra 1-2 hp
*'''running water'''
if the hut is within x amount of squares to water, they can refill gourds and bottles (i think someone suggested we keep empty bottles, this would require that to be implemented)
*'''fire-pit''' players can cook meat (as suggested, only used if implemented)
*'''craftmanship'''players can see the hut's creator, ex: Richard's Hut, if skill isnt aquired, players see the hut as "dishevelled hut" or "ragged hut" etc.
*'''hut upgrade 1''' hut is given one extra ring of squares
**'''hut upgrade 2''' hut is given extra floor
***'''hut upgrade 3''' hut second floor is enlarged, door locks are given
****'''hut upgrade 4''' hut is given a basement

the use of hut upgrades is to help people hide, when upgrade 3 is given, and locks are attained, players can "lock" their houses up, requiring a devastating amount of AP to open, suggesting around 60-70 AP

*'''house trap 1''' spike trap, inflicts 1 wound
**'''house trap 2''' heavy spike trap, 1 wound and 3 dmg
*'''house trap 3''' blast trap, 7 hp
**'''house trap 4''' heavy blast trap 14 hp

traps are triggered upon breaking into a house, players can attain a new skill:
*'''lockpick''' breaking in only costs 30 AP
with this skill, traps are disabled

*'''animal cage'''
if animal trapping were implemented, then this would keep them from running away when u died,
**'''animal care''' animal care section of the house, determining your pet's status ex:
Richard clicks the button "give pet food" mr whiskers smiles and gobbles it up. it could also just be flavor text, and a way to get rid of meat.
*'''attack animal'''
player buys skill animal now acts like trap, player types in names of people allowed to be in house, anyone not on the list is attacked by animal, animal is treated as "wild" to intruders, as per, it will follow them several blocks away from the house before returning, and can be killed, but is also agressive no matter what breed. ex: mr.parrot attack john doe for 2 dammage and returns home.
**'''rabidity''' animal is now "rabid" and has a 20% chance of "infecting" (wound) the intruding player

other tidings can be added, ex:
*'''taxidermy''' players can pick up dead bodies and mount them in their house ex:
in the second story of richard's hut is a grey elephant head, mounted on oak

my finale,
*'''garden''' allows players to plant a tree/ bush 1 square away from their house, planting requires, 5 of the said fruit and the plants disappear when the hut is packed up, players also have the ability to "kill" the plant and re-grow a different one.
**'''green thumb''' allows players to garden for only 3 fruits
**'''verdant thumb''' allows players to change to growths around their house, ex: a house surrounded by dirt can be changed to light undergrouwth or heavy forest
**'''spade''' allows player to dig a "cellar" 1-3 squares away from house to "hide" or store items.
skill also allows players to loacte any tunnels within 5X5 of the checked area. players can only check within a 3X3 area around the house

house experience does not raise everytime a skill is bought, but the price is set at 100-200 (your choice)

"comments Below"

Sounds like it would be a good idea if the island was bigger but otherwise a 3x3 would be gigantic if everyone had one--[[User:Slith|Slith]] 21:40, 29 March 2006 (BST)
*not really, but the huts are still the same single square size on the outside, it is the inside that changes. --[[User:Richard Rose|Richard Rose]]

I think it would be better to implement this skill while implementing clans - i.e. having clan camps. One way to implement this would be to establish camp/ a hut automatically when a certain number of players from a given clan stand on a single square. This would reward organization and prevent individual players from spamming. In addition, I think that having all those additions as skills is unnessacary. I just adds uneeded complexity. Again, clan based operation seems to be the best way to do this.--[[User:Gandhi|Gandhi]] 00:47, 31 March 2006 (BST)
----

===Plunder===
{{suggestion|
suggest_time=07:15, 30 March 2006 (BST)|
suggest_type=Skill|
suggest_scope=Pirates|
suggest_description=So. Pirates have been added, at long last. We all love pirates. They're swarthy, greedy people. Like mobsters, only with eyepatches, bandanas, peg legs, parrots, and the clap. There's something lacking in the pirates on Shartak, though. To get a better idea of this, let's look at the check list.

[x] 1. Pirate ship

[x] 2. Swarthy attitude

[x] 3. Pirate lingo

[x] 4. Murder

[ ] 5. Plunder

Aha! So we've identified the problem: a distinct lack of plunder. For this reason, I've come up with the idea for a plunderin' skill. Now, when you kill some poor sap, you take one coin out of his inventory per level--his level, that is. This keeps it a little balanced, in that you won't be taking away the life savings of some poor little level 1 when you kil him. Unless he happens to have only 1 coin, but that's neither here nor there. Now, of course, if you kill a level 5 who only has 4 coins, you'll only get those 4 coins. If he has 6 coins, however, you'll only get 5 of them.

Is it overpowering pirates to give them this class-restricted skill? Not really. I mean, despite being a combat class, they can't really get any good with rifles. Pretty much all of their kills are made with a cutlass. And what's the real usage of the gold coins? Typically, to buy ammunition. Obviously, the pirates won't be using it on that, as they're terrible shots. They'll just buy themselves some medical supplies, some back-up weapons, and hoard the rest. I can't say I know that many players who hold onto the coins, anyways, though I'm sure there must be some. Still, they generally tend to be spent pretty quickly. Really, I just think that this could lend pirates a little more depth; sure, they're fellow outsiders, but can you trust them? How quickly will they cut your throat for you wallet?

So... Thoughts? Agreement? Death threats?|
suggest_author=[[User:Wifey|Wifey]]|
suggest_comments=

*'''Keep/Change''' (Yarr) I agree that this fits with theme and perhaps rightfully rewards Pirates in that they do not have a Trader NPC at the shipwreck (at least that was the case when I left it several days ago). And I'm glad that this is being presented as a purchasable skill (I believe?) rather than an inherent one. I do generally follow one of the basic tenets of UD - "Don't <del>Tread On Me</del> Mess With My Inventory!" But gold appears to have become fairly plentiful with the Trader NPC; having more gold than your current level is a fairly easy feat and losing gold won't lead to an entirely unpleasant gaming experience. However, I would like a few more mechanics set in place to minimize the avenues to zerging, griefing, and general abuse that this suggestion would open up. The only simple amendment I can think of may be to give '''Plunder''' a percent chance of success. Perhaps allowing for degrees of advanced plundering skills. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 20:07, 30 March 2006 (BST)
**'''RE:''' A very good point. Very good points from both of you. I had thought of a % chance when I was originally writing the suggestion, but I realized that the nwe'd be dealing with an X% chance to get Y% of the other player's coins, and I thought it might be a little more work on the server than necessary. I thought, perhaps a chence of getting only 1 coin, but that seemed just silly. Perhaps we could limit the pirate to only 1 plunder per day (or maybe a few more, if people feel that 1 is too few)? For example, if you killed John Smith the level 1 Explorer and took 1 coin from him, then killed Mr. Moneybags the level 16 with more coins than you can shake a stick at, you would get no coins from him. If you were to wait a day, though, and kill Mr. Moneybags ''then'', you would get 16 coins--and no more from anyone else for the rest of the day. Additionally, you would not be able ot get money from the same person twice in a row. So if, after killing Mr. Moneybags and taking half of his coins, you killed him the next day, you would get none. You might as well have gone for poor little John Smith. That eliminates griefing, and all it would need to do is keep track of the ID of the last person you killed, checking it the next time you kill someone 24+ hours later..--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 23:29, 30 March 2006 (BST)
*i agree with both of them, and with you, id love to see this flavor added, and the trader NPC at the pirate camp has yet to be found, so they would have to go to another village to use it. the closest village (where my pirate is) is dalpok, which, is, as you know native. this hostility would mean pirates would REALLY have to work to hoard medical supplies and weapons, thusly this would be well balanced. i also want to discuss the % success rate. as pirates are VERY good at "plundering" the % chance success rate should start at a reasonably high %, such as 50% and above. as putting it any lower would simply be ridiculous. there could be several level ups to raise the % but if there are no advanced levels then i suggest putting the starting % at around 75%. --[[User:Richard Rose|Richard Rose]]

*'''Plunder''' could be made a search skill (concievably the second skill in the plunder grouping). Rather than having it be merely equivalent to scavenging the plunder skill could only be used in villages (it wouldn't matter if they were native or outsider villages). Scavenging could similarly be changed to a jungle-only skill. Repeatedly plundering a square would deplete it much like chopping down a square of jungle, and squares would replenish over time much the same way. Whether this affects the search odds for other players is open to debate. I'd hate for the pirate class to be burning every other class in the game by plundering all the villages to the point nobody could find a rifle. The odds of finding a broken item should increase while plundering. The more refined the item the greater the chance it would be broken when a pirate plunders it (GPS, first aid kits, rifles, dart guns and any other delicate manufactured items to come being more likely to be broken). It would give people on the island something to do other than filling out the map and hunting game. Since we could then expect groups of pirates moving from village to village it would also increase player interaction (violently or otherwise). Having a wider range of broken items could necessitate a repair skill for players or a similar service that could be provided by a trader adding another level to the game's economy. -[http://www.shartak.com/profile.cgi?id=242 Tyler Whitney]

*With the new "stuff breaks/crit hit" along with traders gold has a major use, instead of searching for that cutlass(or machete both break) you can go trade your hard earned gold coins for a weapon, why stop at just coins? pirates could get this skill and should just take away 1 random item (any item) plus a few gold coins, as we all know pirates didn't just take gold they took anything of value. Though level ones should be completly immune to this and the maximum value of the item you take(based on how many gold coins it takes to trade for the item) should be equal to there level, or some other method all I know is items should get stolen along with coins, you can only get killed once (as of right now) before going back to a village so it doesn't do too much, I mean 1 item? even if it was my machete(whom I call Mary) I wouldn't mind, sure my ghost would scream and haunt the bastard who took her away from me that would just add a new level of fun to the game. As a native(with a pirate alt) I support this skill, though it would entail a new top ten richest in the statistics page so the pirates would know who to hunt.... mwahaha -[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 03:09, 4 April 2006 (BST)
**Now there's an interesting idea. Perhaps, though, there should then be a hierarchy of items in the eyes of a pirate? For instance, you take 1 item (which might be a gold coin) and one gold coin on the side. The gold coins on the side would increase with one's level. What would the item be, though? Probably first would be a gem. They're shiny and valuable--a pirate's favorite words (aside from "Arrrr!")! Next? A gold coin. Not enough coins? Probably a cutlass or machete. None of those? Rifle. No? Rifle bullet, then. None of those, either? Probably go with a first aid kit. Ah, but those are out, too? Bottle of water. And so on down the list. Bottle of water -> bottle of rum -> gourd of water/banana/berries -> knife/dagger. I doubt a pirate would bother with a blowgun or darts, nor would he yearn for his enemies' driftwood. Once again, just throwing an idea out, though.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 06:28, 4 April 2006 (BST)
*** To a Pirate, Rum would be more interesting than Water...[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 11:40, 28 May 2006 (BST)
**I think plundering items crosses into making this skill much to powerful. It lessens the need for the Pirate class to spend AP searching. They may lose a cutlass or two choppping another player to bits, but then they earn a machete in the kill and can continue on their way. Gold coins can be argued to be powerful, but the lack of a Trader at the shipwreck means they have to make their way to other Villages in order to spend them. After some further thinking, I feel that there should be a plundering cap of 10 coins regardless of level (otherwise it would be unfair to classes with class-specific skills that make them a higher level than others). And it is random chance after the kill produces no coins or some coins or all coins. If the player doesn't have enough coins, the Pirate plunders what he can and is given extra flavor text to reward them on their evil little victory. "Yo ho ho! You have taken all (Player)'s booty." --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 07:00, 4 April 2006 (BST)

*Plunder sounds nice. How about this formula: a pirate's chance of plundering someone equals 4 times the pirate's level minus 2 times the victim's level and always returns the lesser of half the victim's level in gold (rounded down) or all the victim's gold. In other words, if a level 10 pirate plunders a level 1 scientist with 10 gold, the pirate has a 38% chance of getting 0 gold, and if a level 10 pirate plunders a level 13 warrior with 2 gold, the pirate has a 14% chance of getting 2 gold. This simulates higher level non-pirates being more adept at hiding coin purses on their body, and prevents griefing on newbies. I agree with above comments that plunder should be a one time immediate event upon killing a character, based on a percentage chance, and limited to gold - anything else makes the skill too complex and/or powerful. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 13:39, 4 April 2006 (BST)
*I wouldn't support this unless pirates could be plundered ''from'', too, which kind of defeats the point. It's not like pirates are a weak class; the shipwreck has a trader now, and they start with 65 HP. I really like being able to count on having a static inventory while I'm logged out, and I think "Yarr, a pirate has killed you and plundered 1 gold coin" would get old very fast. I think it'd be quite cool if pirates were healed by 1 HP more for drinking beer or rum, but taking gold from their kills is too much. — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 16:42, 28 May 2006 (BST)
*Yarr and Keep. I say this is a good addition. I believe all the classes should have some skill specific to them. I have a pirate and a scientist, and neither of them have anywhere special go to in terms of skills, thus making the distinction of them being scientists and pirates useless. Especially the scientist... 10 gold coins? What the? --[[User:Rip Purr|Rip Purr]] 10:53, 30 May 2006 (BST)


}}

===Diagnosis===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill addition, class-specific|
suggest_scope=Shaman and Scientist|
suggest_description=This is an attempt to create additional variety within the classes. Diagnosis would be a sub-skill of Triage available only to the Shaman and Scientist classes. It behaves much like Triage does, but it would detect Shark Bites and other possible future maladies and status ailments. Shark Bite victims could be identified with an asterisk next to their name. 
I believe that this skill's net benefits will be minimal. It would fit with the theme of the class, while not over-powering them. I also believe that since this is a sub-skill, that there should be additional class-specific skills for Shamans and Scientist.|
suggest_time=18:21, 6 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

* If Triage truly only does reveal one person's HP then the skill tree should be expanded for Advanced Triage as well. Where Advanced Triage would display the HP of everyone in the current area - rather than just the most wounded. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:55, 29 April 2006 (BST)
* Corrected usage of Doctor. I hope that this skill can still be considered in-character for Scientists. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:11, 11 May 2006 (BST)

}}

===Alchemy===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill addition, class-specific|
suggest_scope=Scientists|
suggest_description=Allows Scientists to convert seemingly useless items (such as driftwood) into valuables such as a gold coin. Another possibility is crabs into gems (don't ask). This would, of course, cost about 25 AP per use. This would give Scientists a key role in the game because they would be needed to convert intems.|
suggest_time=23:24, 8 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

*While I like the basic idea of this, it should be limited a little. That said, I don't know how one would appropriately limit its use. Perhaps you could turn a bottle of rum into a more refreshing bottle of water? How, precisely, would you envision the implementation of this?--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:18, 10 April 2006 (BST)
*I like it! It gives us something unique to do as scientists! Would you make it so you turn a specific useless item into a specific useful item, or what?[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 15:24, 10 April 2006 (BST)
**I imagine that eventually every class will have atleast one unique skill to separate it from the others and give a reason for choosing that class. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 01:30, 11 April 2006 (BST)
*I could accept this if it was presented differently. As it stands, it sort of conflicts with my expectation that the Natives are the more mystically-inclined and the Outsiders are more advanced technologically. I just don't envision men and women of science practicing alchemy. I have no objection to the scientist manufacturing items, but not in this manner. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 03:37, 11 April 2006 (BST)

}}

===Spirit Substantiation===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill|
suggest_scope=Sprits (all classes)|
suggest_description=The spirit has learned to partially substantiate its form, becoming more physical, and can now float on the winds to move at double the normal rate (i.e. .5 AP per move), but only in the direction that the wind is blowing. Note that this requires the game element of wind, which can either be a uni-directional constant (e.g. always blows west) or changes over time (perhaps dependant on location?). If wind direction changes, the game's user interface will need a mechanism to display wind direction, either via game.cgi or added to map.html.

This could be the first in a series of new spirit skills. I see the aforementioned Will o' the Wisp being under this tree, as well as another skill to move .3 AP per move but still only in the direction of the wind. Perhaps some poltergeist type skills can be added as well - allow dead pirates to plunder, any spirit to write messages, any spirit to still map out the area, etc, etc.
|
suggest_time=16:40, 14 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Frisco|Frisco]]|
suggest_comments=

* Nice idea, what would happen to moving against the wind? Would that then require 2AP and 1 AP to move at 90 degrees to the wind direction :) --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 17:33, 14 April 2006 (BST)
** I was thinking of substantiation as being a conceptual (not a user toggle switch, something the game system automatically determines) on/off capability of the ghost, so the ghost could have no form and thus no penalty for moving into the wind, then take form and move with the wind. But that's mostly because i don't like the idea of skills that negatively affect a character. I definitely think wind should adversely affect other things, like pigeons taking longer to deliver if the recipient is upwind. It's all more math for you! --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 17:49, 14 April 2006 (BST)

}}

===Marksmanship===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill modification and new skill|
suggest_scope=Anyone who uses a ranged weapon|
suggest_description=A few problems that I see with regard to rifle use: 1) Non-soldiers' extremely low maximum rifle accuracy making rifles useless to non-soldiers, 2) Loading rifles takes up a tremendous amount of AP since it costs one AP to load one bullet, leading to a very low damage-to-total-AP-spent ratio, 3) A closely related problem to #2 is the fact that people are carrying around 20 or 30 rifles/blowpipes, which is ridiculous and unrealistic, and a by-product of the AP cost to load. I dont know if the following idea for a solution to both of these problems can realisitically be implemented, but here goes: Change the Advanced Rifle Training skill to make loading rifle bullets cost 0 AP (advanced training would thus mean the abiliy to load rifles very easily and quickly, as opposed to untrained people who take much longer. We are in the time period when it took a long time to load rifles after all). Institute a new skill called Marksmanship in the firearms skill tree, which gives +__% rifle accuracy <s>(I would say +30%). Let marksmanship be a skill that can be acquired by anyone, while rifle training and advanced rifle training remain soldier-exlcusive. If Marksmanship gives +30%, it will improve non-soldiers' maximum accuracy from 20% to 50%, knocking out problem #1 above. Soldiers with the entire proposed rifle skill tree would have max accuracy of 70% and would not have to waste an AP to load, knocking out problem #2. Natives would get the same changes for blowpipe
note: It might be better to have two skills, Marksmanship and Expert Marksmaship, each giving +15% accuracy, and possibly make these two a seperate skill tree. If they were in the rifle training tree, they would have to come after the two rifle training skills, but non-soldiers cannot get rifle training, so it would look awkward.</s>

'''NOTE: [[User_talk:Arminius#Proposal_for_new_rifle_skill_tree|Revised proposal and statistical analysis of current vs. proposed damage-to-AP ratios, click here]]'''|
suggest_time=05:34, 13 May 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Arminius|Arminius]]|
suggest_comments=

*From a gameplay point of view, i don't see that guns/blowpipes need to be any stronger. It's already possible to take someone out in one go, why the need to kill quicker? The proposed change means with one gun and a full load of bullets, one soldier in one day causes an average of 75 * .7 * 4 = 210 HP damage - that's 2.4 pirates with stamina, or 4.2 beginner shamans. It would make the game a lot less fun to be able to die that much quicker and that much more often. Maybe i wouldn't object as much if these old school guns were also subject to backfiring, causing them to blow up in the owner's hands and resulting in owner HP loss and gun destruction (similar to machete/cutlass blade snapping). By the way, elsewhere there's been debate on the timeperiod of the game since we also have GPS units. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 20:00, 13 May 2006 (BST)
::You are calculating ''combat'' damage-to-AP ratio, the proposed modification of the advanced rifle training skill would not affect combat-damage-to-AP ratio very much (it would affect it not at all for people with lots of rifles), it would only affect the rifle's currently very low total overall damage-inflicted-to-AP-spent ratio. (With 28 fully-loaded rifles a soldier can already kill two 85-HP pirates in only 56 AP.) The rifle's total-damage-to-AP ratio today is 0.48 by my calculation, the machete's is 1.35. With the proposed changes, the maximum total-damage-to-AP ratio for a rifle-wielding soldier would be 0.7 (still far lower than machete). Non-soldiers max rifle total damage-to-AP ratio would improve from 0.16 (weaker than a level 0 character with a blunt machete) to 0.4. I like your suggestion of rifles possibly blowing up too, Simon should definitely consider that. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 20:28, 13 May 2006 (BST)

*I'm not sure how I feel about the skill yet, but I will correct you, Frisco, in that the GPS unit is not an adequate argument about the game's time period. Simon has already said that he doesn't like the name "GPS Unit" because it is anachronistic, and was considering another one.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 01:03, 14 May 2006 (BST)

* I don't quite see why rebuilding the skill tree is necessary. You could accomplish the same thing by introducing two new skills - one for accuracy which builds upon the existing accuracy skills and one for reloading. Make the first accuracy skill available to all classes (adjusting to 30%), but restrict the secondary accuracy skills to Warriors and Soldiers. But even then, I'm not completely sold on the fact that these skills are necessary. I have no problem with my non-Soldier not depending on a rifle. If I wanted to use a rifle, I can easily make a Soldier character. And while reducing reloading cost might bring rifles and blowpipes more evenly with machetes, increasing the damage or introducing the ranged attack suggestion might solve the problem without providing free lunches. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 02:31, 15 May 2006 (BST)
::Yes of course it's fine to make them new skills. I suggested it in the way I did because learning to load quickly would fall under rifle training I would say, and we already have the two rifle-training skills in the game. One of the accuracy-improving skills would fall under Marskmanship (or marskmanship/expert marksmanship). How they are added to the game is almost immaterial, the point is to let soldiers be able to acquire a skill which gets rid of their need to waste more than half their daily AP loading their 20 rifles, and get rid of the need to carry 20+ rifles in the first place. I dont see how a skill allowing for a 0 AP cost to load is a "free lunch" at all, it just reduces the price of a ridiculously high-priced lunch, i.e. 1 AP to load 1 bullet/dart (plus I feel it improves the realism of the game, in part by eliminating the need to carry around 25 rifles or blowpipes). The point of the Marksmanship skill (available to all) is not to put non-soldiers on the par with soldiers in firearms capability at all, but to make rifles non-worthless to everyone else. Currently non-soldiers are literally far better off ''punching'' enemies than using a rifle when it comes to damage-inflicted-per-AP-spent, which is just ridiculous. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 03:37, 15 May 2006 (BST)
:::I do like the idea of making rifle and blowpipe usage more accessible to other character classes. But I continue to have a difficult time accepting the 0 AP reload cost. Currently there is no action in the game that costs 0 AP besides rejecting a trade, speaking in empty area, healing someone at full health, and dropping an item (all non-actions). Would 0.5 AP would be an acceptable change? But before it is considered, there must be other alternatives before lowering AP cost to make the ranged weapons more balanced. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:27, 27 May 2006 (BST)
::::How about this-- modify advanced rifle training skill so that instead of "Gain another 20% on firearms attacks", it says "lets soldiers load and fire faster" (0.5 AP to load and to fire with that skill), in other words a rifle version of trekking. This would cut down on the excessive AP costs of rifle usage and be an interesting skill to balance rifles rather than another "add 20% accuracy" or something like that. Then two new skills, Marksmanship (+10% accuracy), Expert Marskmanship (+20% accuracy), both of which would be available to all character classes. I would envision the two marskmanship skills as the first two skills in the firearms tree (the only two available to non-soldiers), and then the rifle training skills would come afterwards. -[[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 20:00, 30 May 2006 (BST)
:::::'''UPDATE:''' To see a revised version of my suggestion '''[[User_talk:Arminius#Proposal_for_new_rifle_skill_tree|Click Here]].''' I worked out the current and proposed damage-to-AP ratios, and I invite everyone to take a look. It is far too long and complicated to copy here, so I wrote it up elsewhere. -[[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 01:44, 2 June 2006 (BST)
:*As discussed elsewhere, ''carrying loaded rifles as backup allows you to lock in the kill bonus'' on a much wider range of (remaining-AP/remaining-victim-HP) situations. Since the '''kill bonus is more than a third of total XP for combat''', this throws the naive XP=damage comparisons way out of whack. Anecdotally at least, my Soldier has clearly done better than my other characters in jungle XP-harvesting, because kill-steals and dying while asleep are so common. So while the Rifle (and especially the Blowpipe) needs help, I think that nearly doubling combat-time damage to 2x 50% 5 damage for 1 AP (5.0) instead of 1x 60% 5 damage (3.0) is not an ideal way to proceed. I support Free Reload or Rapid Reload as a Soldier-Only Skill. I also think that an all-available accuracy upgrade for Rifle/Blowpipe (to at least better than Machete) would be great. For example: Base 20% (+General Accuracy +15%) (+Soldier-only Accuracy +15%) (+Soldier-only Accuracy +15%). Or maybe Base 10% (+General Accuracy +25%) (+Soldier-only Accuracy +25%) (+Soldier-only Rapid Reload), and increase Rifle Bullet base damage to 6. Two shots per AP just seems too big a jump to me; imho implementing true range (firing from adjacent square and/or without provoking return melee attacks) is a better way to proceed. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 03:56, 2 June 2006 (BST)
::*Yes the blowpipe needs help even more than the rifle. That limited-AP poisoning skill, along with these proposed boosts to accuracy, would even things out there. I also like the idea of making ranged weapons truly ranged, but that seems difficult to implement and perhaps impractical (for one thing we cant see the names of people on adjacent squares). If any version of QBerry's "auto attack" is ever implemented for players, though it seems unlikely with so much opposition, the "range" of the ranged weapon could come into play by not allowing a person without ranged weapons/ammo to back. This was discussed on the forums in the "Aggressive Animals" thread. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 06:01, 2 June 2006 (BST)
:*NB about Free Reload: Incidentally, Free Reload obviously solves the "realism problem" by allowing a Soldier to carry only one Rifle and a huge pile of Bullets, with '''no increase''' in Soldier combat-time damage-per-AP (still 3.0 max avg per AP) nor Soldier field-capacity damage-per-inventoryfull (still 72 shots) since 2 Bullets loose take up as much space as a Loaded Rifle. People who think that 0AP reload is imbalancing have been smoking too much of the dried herbs. As for realism of 0AP reload, the Soldier's "1AP to fire" accounts for time necessary to both reload and fire. I can discuss and reject 160 exchanges with the Trader and or attempt to heal a signpost in the same amount of time. The real-time form submission and IP hit creates a perceptible time-increment. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 03:56, 2 June 2006 (BST)

After thinking about this, it seems to me that the best thing to do is as follows: No new skill, instead simply a change in the game mechanics so that all players take 0 AP to "load" by deafult. The AP cost to fire would thereby represent the time to load and fire, as Tycho44 said above. (Load was in quotation marks there because the load button in-game would thus really represent selecting the bullet to use, the actual action of loading would be included in the 1 AP to fire). This would eliminate the 30 rifles problem straight away (and for all character classes), it would ''not'' increase the combat damage-to-AP ratio at all, and it would be an interesting way to increase the damage-to-''total''-AP-spent ratio (which we need) without having to add any new skill. As for the accuracy boosts, those can be worked out later (non-soldiers need a boost in that department we all agree, perhaps soldiers merit a slight one), but 0 AP to "load" is definitely a sound change to make, I see no argument against it. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 23:11, 3 June 2006 (BST)


}}

===Hut Construction (Simplified) ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Skill, item, action|
suggest_scope=Every player|
suggest_description=This is a bit similar to the Construction suggestion, but much more simplified. I agree that we should be able to set up little camps, to have bases away from bases. I'll explain the flavour aspect after I've explained the mechanics. 
A skill can be purchased called, "Construction", which allows you to erect a hut on land that has been chopped down to 0 density. The hut would have a bit of AP weight to build, say 10ap cost so that full constuction on a 10 dense jungle sq would have a total of 20ap. The hut that you build is at first a regular empty hut. Once you have bought the second skill in the set, "Stock Hut" (or something like that), the hut becomes a mini trade-post, stocking no more than 5 types of items at any one point. The first 5 items are randomized, and then as people trade, they change. Thus, it's a mixed bag of what you could get. These artificially erected huts can be sacked and destroyed. Keep in mind I'm not a coder, so if you know what I'm describing is difficult, but know how to do something similar, please say so. 
Flavour: This gives people the feeling of being able to set up their own little base camp for their own clan, without making a whole new village. The fact that each hut can only stock a small number of items, and also that it can be destoryed, means things don't get out of hand and make the original villages defunct. Each hut can also be plauged with low-demand items like crabs or mangoes, making the idea even for grifers, natives, enemies, outsiders and pirates.|
suggest_time=12:05, 3 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Rip Purr|Rip Purr]]|
suggest_comments=

*Building a hut could also require a certain number of driftwood pieces. --[[User:Rip Purr|Rip Purr]] 12:08, 3 June 2006 (BST)
*Ability to create minor base camps away from settlements is good (but for what practical purpose?), but the idea that the island would be flooded with "huts" all over, with the same icon and name as huts in settlements, I dont like that. This is supposed to a wild myseterious island, having huts (but not lower-tech base camps of some sort) all over would hurt that ambiance. The other thing is, We have to be clear about what the purpose of these base camps would be, what practical benfit would they have. Would they have defense value? [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:59, 4 June 2006 (BST)
}}

Suggestions:Game mechanics

2006-06-03T23:47:54Z

Arminius: /* Auto Attack */

{{:Suggestions/Header|page_type=Game Mechanics}}

== Game Mechanics ==

=== Conversion ===
When an Outsider/Native dies they are reborn as a Native (don't really understand the spirit thing too well). The Outsiders then get a new class/skill, "Religious Conversion" that requires a "Holy Scripture". This allows a "Priest" to convert one native into a Outsider". The converted native would most likely start off as a Settler. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* I believe that Natives are reborn as Natives and Outsiders are reborn as Outsiders, but I could be wrong. From a game balance perspective, I am not in favor of type-swapping skills unless Natives are presented with an ability to counter or convert Outsiders as well. It does fit nicely with the theme though. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:41, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

* That would probably be the shamans job, however it may have worked for Urban Dead but I don't think it will work in this game as whichever group has the most players to begin with will, once conflicts begin to arise, dominate by switching people from the side they are on the side the priest/"whatever the natives use" side making you able to graph one groups population by looking at the graph pop=(1/2)^x. Also since there wouldn't seem to be a way, short of finding a converter player to switch you back, to go back to playing as you once did would make the amount of people on one side quickly die off (even though thats what would happen in real life, favouring the outsiders) it would be a very unfun aspect of the game. And really these are HOSTILE natives, or so it seems, why would they let some devilman outsider tell it how it is? They wouldn't, they would simply spear them and laugh! In short all the converting ideas suck, I know I wouldn't want to log on to find I'm playing for the wrong side. -- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 10:55, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

* So that means if my soldier dies, he's reborn as a native? Not only that, but to become an outsider again, first I would have to find a priest (which would be next to impossible with such a small number of players), and then he could convert me into a settler. That means I'll never be able to be a soldier again, which is a real punch in the throat for RPers. -- Grigoriy

*All valid points. I guess this wouldn't really work we have the same number of players as Urban Dead. But this would be a great way to balance out the sides later on. Say there are too many natives, you just drop more "conversion items" and balance out the sides. Too many Outsiders? Just drop the number of conversion items. Doubt it would catch on though. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 02:44, 19 February 2006 (GMT)

*Conversion doesn't have to be forced. It could require action on both sides, like a native doning a religious item and an outsider using the skill on that native. After all, conversion isn't real without true faith. The native counter to this could be similar, requiring an outsider to die holding a packet of that headshrinking powder while a shaman uses the Zombification (ala Haitian witchcraft) skill. -- frisco

*You don't change class or anything when you die. --[[User:Murk|Murk]] 12:31, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

*I gave a response t othis idea under "Holy Scriptures," I think, offering another idea for it that may piss a lot less people off. *points over there*--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:15, 29 March 2006 (BST)
----

=== Capturing villages ===
Since this is like some war between Outsiders and Natives I thought this appropriate. If all the (say) Outsiders are killed in York and there are none left, then it becomes a Native village and vice versa. Probably needs harder requirements to capture settlements though. Maybe each side could have one permanent place that can never change hands? --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:41, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
:Not sure about this - what about all the idle players within the village? They might "wake up" after a couple of weeks to find they're in enemy territory. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:00, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

:You could have it so idle players goto the nearest friendly village-- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 02:58, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

:Turf control in a limited AP browser game like this just invites lame zerging behavior. I don't like it. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:00, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

:Not villages, perhaps 3x3 square 'forts'? --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 01:10, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

:I do like the idea, but I think Jackel's observation hits a key point. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

:Agreed with Jackel and Lint and Simon. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 13:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT) Additionally:
::* Please don't impose your assumption that Shartak is at heart a "war between Outsiders and Natives" on the rest of us. That is not the only possible direction in which this game can go. For example, an Outsider village might turn out to be populated by a trading company that views the other Outsider villages as competitors whose extermination would be good for business, but it could just as easily develop into a peaceful scientific outpost, a pirate haven of drunken debauchery, or a missionary settlement devoted to finding the Natives and learning their language (gotta spread that old time religion). I believe it would be better to keep the objectives more freeform, and let the players create the course of history. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 13:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
::* On a hopefully more helpful and positive note, one could simulate/approximate capturing a village by amassing an army of suitable size, carving messages of ownership all over the territory of the village in question, killing all members of the village, and repeatedly killing the village shaman so they can't get back as easily. (Ouch. I hope no armchair megalomaniacs out there have been taking notes.) --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 13:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
----

=== Unique skills ===
I think that each class should start off with one unique skill that the others may never aquire. That way it stops all the classes from becoming too generic. For example Settlers could have a "farming" skill, Soldiers could have a "bravery" skill, etc. Or mabey they could just have a attribute like Soldiers have an extra 10% chance of striking the target, Warriors have an extra 10% chance of finding animals, Settlers have an extra 10% chance of finding an item, Scouts have a 3% chance of recovering 1 HP per AP spent, etc. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 02:34, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
:I am in favor of this (if it is not in effect currently). We'd have to work out the details to make sure each class is getting their fair share, but something that encourages players to try other classes or team up with other players using different classes for a better playing experience sounds good to me. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
:I am in favor of each class being able to acquire (but not necessarily starting off with) a unique skill or attribute that the others may never acquire. Sounds to me like the kind of thing that would be unlocked as one's reward for a rite of passage, rather than granted as a right of birth. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 12:53, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
:Perhaps a Research skill of some kind for the Scientist, maybe allowing them an advantage when doing things with dead animals (would need something to do with dead animals, obviously!).[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 16:09, 16 March 2006 (GMT)
:Pirates should have a skill to steal their fallen enemies' gold coins. Arr. Would probably result in a lot of outsider in-fighting, though, and outsiders are currently outnumbered.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:18, 29 March 2006 (BST)
:I agree with this as well. It seems Shartak is on the way to giving each class their own benefits (Soldiers/Warriors with gun skills, Settlers/Villagers with animal affinity etc.), but so far only a few have been made unique. At present there is really no point to being a scientist. He starts with 10 gold coins... what the? So I'm pushing for each class to have at least one unique skill they can purchase with XP. --[[User:Rip Purr|Rip Purr]] 11:50, 3 June 2006 (BST)
----

=== Pet System ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics|
suggest_scope=All classes|
suggest_description=I will combine aspects of the '''Animal''' and '''Pirate''' suggestions and propose a pet system that allows you to tame one of the animals on the island. First, you have to weaken the animal. Then you throw a sphere device at it and shout "SHARTAK SPHERE! GO!" for 1 AP. There's a slight chance that you have captured and tamed the animal. The more powerful the animal, the less success chance. You earn no XP for taming an animal. Players can only have 1 pet at a time. They can release a pet whenever they want. If the owner dies, the pet runs away. Pets have fixed HP, attack, and accuracy based on the type of animal they are (ie. they do not level up or heal, just to keep it simple to design). They follow the player around and only attack when the player attacks. It would be nice if they attacked while you were not playing, but auto-defense mechanisms are unnecessary. Enemy animals randomly determine whether they are attacking the owner or the pet. Other players will have an option for targeting the owner or pet. There is no XP gained for attacking or killing a pet to deter any attempts at farming pet killing (I can't believe we even have to consider preventing such a thing). For added flavor, owners can name their pets.|
suggest_time=08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*ROTFL. Sounds a bit like Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh (don't worry, I'm not a fan, I have kids that were!). Perhaps instead of spheres, you could keep the monkeys on a leash, heal a tiger or elephant to make it less likely to attack you, tame deer by feeding them, etc. Some animals like the wild boar would have to be pretty difficult to tame. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:14, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
*I was with you right up until you got to the "sphere device" bit, and I rejoined you afterwards. ;) The rest of your suggestion otherwise seems to be pretty well thought out. Personally, I'd prefer to attempt to tame the animal into becoming a pet purely by offering it food, rather than "weakening" it by other means. Especially since food is scarce enough that offering it to an animal would be a real sacrifice and therefore an interesting decision for the player to make. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:49, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
*I will confess that I had a lot of fun with the references. The problem I have with using an existing item to tame a pet is how to implement it. The player can't click on the fruit, because that will just heal themselves. And I think it is unecessary to redesign fruits like First Aid Kits and Medical Herbs, just so they can feed it to an animal. And a database check to see if the player possesses a fruit before providing a "tame" command seems awkward. Perhaps there is just one item called "animal bait" (from the Trade Hut most likely). It works much like a FAK or Herb, but can only be applied to animals (though there will be a "Yourself" option by default for those players that decide they enjoy the taste). Animals will then have a value called "tame count" in the database. For each successful feeding, this number is incremented. When a specific number is reached, the monster is successfully tamed. If a monster is killed, the number is reset to 0. Acquiring a pet should not reduce the population of animals on the island (ie. one should respawn to take its place). Furthermore, those with '''Animal Affinity''' should have a better taming success rate. (This is another attempt to give Villagers and Settlers a little boost.) --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 17:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
*This idea, while somewhat interesting, is not very realitic. The animals of the island are wild. In reality, tigers, elephants, deer, "WILD boars" etc can only be made LESS WILD by extensive and careful training and handling when they are young, not be tamable by any means, certainly not enough to follow a person around and fight on their behalf. Maybe it would be possible with parrots and monkeys, but if Simon is going to implement changes, I'd rather see some of the more believable ones first. I do agree with Lint that it would give more value to '''Animal Affinity'''. Animal attacks, even from a tiger or elephant (which would realistically be very dangerous) are hardly to be feared, making this skill currently seem pretty useless.

* ''The following is a Pet suggestion made by [[User:Richard Rose|Richard Rose]] on 21:47, 24 March 2006:''

as the name reades, simply have "pets" as a survivor living in the jungle, my first instinct would be to find support, in this case we could add a "tame animal" button, which would be clicked to tame an animal, the starting catching % would be something like 10% and could be improved the more the animal is damaged, like at 1hp, if full health was 10hp then you'd have 55% of catching it, (i added 5% for every 10% missing from the creature's health)
this could also be improved with new skills such as

+Amateur Catching Skills (adds 10%)
+Catching Skills (adds 15%, doesnt stack)
+Taming Skills (adds 30%)

+Net (adds 10%, does stack)

certain animals could be ridden, other would do funny things or find objects for you, ex:
Mr. Bobo the monkey finds a bottle of rum in your pocket "gee i didnt know i had that"

elephants, large stags, and tigers could be ridden, small stags would haveto grow up before being ridden, after like, 10 days, or 20 kills they would mature, its all just theory...

parrots could become like flares, ex: Mr. TweetTweet flies towards you and drops a message "help, im at X, Y and there's a native village!"

the parrot could also say messages randomly, players (upon catching a parrot) would be given 10 slots and would type things into them, the parrots would randomly say one, ex:
you attack elephant, Mr. TweetTweet says "polly want a cracker"

animals could also act like extra space, like a backpack, if you will.
animals are named upon capture.

}}

=== Profile Effect Items ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics|
suggest_scope=Inventory and profiles|
suggest_description=These are useless baubles that take up 1 unit of a player's inventory space, but if anyone views their profile they will see that the players possesses the item. Using the item won't accomplish anything and merely produce flavor text. However, if a player is in the presence of another player, using the item would show it off. As with all items, there's no way to trade them with other players. We can have eyepatches and peglegs. We can have tribal masks and warpaint. Maybe some clans would require a certain dress code. Maybe they need 30 pieces of flair. I think it provides an outlet for the less serious gamers. Problems: Serious gamers might be plagued with finding such items and dropping them, wasting (in their opinion) AP and Page Hits. Also, arguing over what items fit with the theme of Shartak will be a headache-inducing process.|
suggest_time=08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

* I like this suggestion. How about finding the pieces of the masks and making your own - combine the baubles with mini-quests? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:18, 8 March 2006 (GMT)
:For example, to make the sacred warrior mask of Raktam, you must find 5 parrot feathers, a tiger tooth, some berries and a piece of driftwood that can be carved into the appropriate shape with a knife or dagger. Once you have all those items, you get a "create mask" option which then removes the required items and the mask appears in your inventory (and profile).
::Having the database check to see if they have all the ingredients seems a bit unwieldly. After every action or inventory use it might have to run the check to verify that they are alive, still have the items, etc. I'd just settle for having them take the items to a specific NPC. But yes, a mixing quest would be fun. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 18:02, 8 March 2006 (GMT)

* I just hope that this idea motivates players to try new things ("I'm going to join a clan that wears such-and-such a mask and attack the others! Yarr!") and not feel that the game is just about collecting items ("Well, I got all the masks. I guess I'm done with the game."). --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 18:02, 8 March 2006 (GMT)

*Maybe the different masks have different effects, from some simple ones (attracting/scaring animals, making them less likely to attack or easier to hit) to the downright blatavt video game reference that turns you into a huge brown rocky guy who can punch boulders apart. OK, maybe not the second one. [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 20:53, 9 March 2006 (GMT)
:I think that's something to be worked on in a separate suggestion. The point of this suggestion is to make useless "fancy hats" that neither add or take away from the established gameplay. However, in the eyes of certain players, they may be invaluable because of how they can incorperate such items into their goals and roleplaying. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:52, 9 March 2006 (GMT)
::Bumping this good suggestion. Let's have some cowrie shells! (And The_Conch(tm), see next suggestion.) The barren ruins and huts seem so sad and pathetic right now, they need some wacky useless trinkets to tide us over... Maybe we need shovels to dig for treasure, too. Yarr! --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:06, 10 May 2006 (BST)

}}

=== Conch Shell Hunt ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, minigame|
suggest_scope=Event|
suggest_description=''Capture the Flag''-ish minigame. Somewhere on the island is a single conch shell item. It can be found by searching anywhere. It takes 1 inventory space and appears when anyone views their profile. When the conch holder is in the presence of other players, flavor text is added to the area description to inform the others that the conch holder is in the area. If the person in possession of the conch drops it, dies, or is idle for more than 5 days, the conch returns to the system. The person who holds the conch the longest gets recognized in the statistics. Killing the conch holder earns special bonus XP. Adept conch holder killers may also be recognized in the statistics. Problems: Someone with multiple characters could take advantage of having the conch on one character and reap the XP and fame with another. There will be a point where a race condition will occur and might result in multiple conches and a broken game.|
suggest_time=08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

* This kind of thing has been on my ideas list, although this is much more detailed version than the one-liner I had. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:05, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
*''I'' have the conch! I'm allowed to speak! *ahem* I mean, um... >.>--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:21, 29 March 2006 (BST)
** Suggestions: (1) Skip bonus for the conch-killer and you remove incentive to zerg. (2) Have the conch break when the conch-bearer dies (respawns on a random beach) and you remove the race condition. (3) Give the conch-bearer an action to blow into the Conch. (You hear the booming echo of a conch being sounded to the south-east.) Maybe 50% chance of 1xp each time you blow the conch, just to give you incentive to attract attention to yourself. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 02:31, 23 April 2006 (BST)


}}

=== Know your foes ===
As a native, I get killed a lot by outsiders, but I just can't strike back when I come back to life, as nothing allows me to identify my agressors amongst the outsiders I meet. I expected some basic language skill to give me access to clickable outsiders profiles, but it doesn't. So. I don't like much the fact that, in this game, the only alternative you have is "attack random outsiders" or "attack none". I'd like to be able to protect myself without being too unfair to peaceful outsiders (and being part of some snowball effect).

This would be partly solved by some profile access (allowing to check people's amount of human kills), or some limited displayed info on the present players (it would make -almost- sense for natives to automatically carry visible scalps or shrunken head of their victims, but I'm not sure how to justify the kills display in the case of outsiders, despite of the fact white men were actually quite fond of indian scalps at some time). Another useful tool would be some urban-dead-like contact list.

Of course, ideally (but absurdly) the most useful stat to be able to see would be the number of kills of people without human kills at the moment of their death, but... -- Leaf

''Comments''
Perhaps seeing the profile of someone on the opposite side if you or they have the advanced language skill would be good, it would be cool to hang around with some natives without worrying about aggressors. --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 21:30, 18 March 2006 (GMT)

If you had a contact list and some way to target individuals on your list ala Urban Dead, I'm guessing that would probably help. Not so sure about the scalp display approach. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 23:36, 18 March 2006 (GMT)

A contact list would be quite useful in Shartak. But also being able to read profiles, maybe through an "observe" button and scroll-down menu. For the moment, people just hit each other once, hoping to miss, in order to get a link to the other guy's profile. There must be a more rationnal way to quench this curiosity. -- Gone 13:36, 10 May 2006 (GMT+1)
----

=== Forest Fire ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, natural disasters|
suggest_scope=Terrain|
suggest_description=This is a potential temporary minigame that will either lead to players to band together and save the island or perhaps just lead to all-out chaos. A fire script is created which designates one block as fire (it is identified by a little fire.gif in the background). Every 20 minutes the fire script will check if there is <del>Grassland or</del> Jungle nearby with density from 1-10. If there is, it spreads to the next block. It will not spread to any other terrain (including villages and ruins). Thus, the best way to prevent the spread of the fire is by chopping vegetation down to 0. The initial fires will be placed randomly around the island. Actions performed in a fire occupied space deal 2 damage. For this event to be more devious, there should be a means to quickly restore vegetation (dropping driftwood, planting fruit, watering with gourds).|
suggest_time=03:58, 17 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*I like some things about this suggestion, I think it could work really nicely if there was also a rain algorithingamajig, so that maybe, if some part of the island dried out, wildfires could break out, or if it rained too much villages could flood and get swamped. Its a neat idea. -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 04:55, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
* I like the idea of rain and fire, however there's no telling if the server would handle the database access/calculations required when the number of players gets into the range that Urban Dead has. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:17, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
** I thought it might be a bit much. Ah well. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 19:32, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
** Not the idea of fire itself, that may well be quite feasible. I meant having rain causing flooding, or not enough rain leading to fires might be a bit awkward.. unless I can think of some way to reduce the work that needs to be done regularly. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 23:38, 18 March 2006 (GMT)
* Maybe fires could also destroy huts, and then there could be a skill to rebuild them. Maybe even give people the ability to start their own fires. It might make for interesting tribal wars. -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 18:22, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
** Imagine what would happen if an ammo hut caught on fire!--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 04:32, 1 April 2006 (BST)
** I kind of wanted to restrict fires to the Jungle (removed my Grasslands comment from the original suggestion) since a lot of Huts provide resources for starting players and players that have just been revived. I think it would be unfair to prevent them with the opportunity to gather supplies. As a tactic, it may also be unfair. Native villages appear to be completely surrounded by burnable Jungle, while Outsider villages are bordered by the Beach. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 19:46, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
** Good point. The pirates would be completely free of burning too. I still think a way to temporarily damage structures could be fun -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 19:59, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
** As a general rule, real world jungles don't burn terribly well, although there are a few notable exceptions (such as the Indonesian forest fires in 1997-98). Grasslands, however, burn quite regularly, and in fact such fires are necessary for the good health of the grass. Fire kills off sapling trees in the area which would otherwise grow to the point that they overshadowed and killed the grass. I don't know whether the game has any grasslands large enough to make this kind of thing interesting, though. --[[User:Jackdaw|Jackdaw]] 15:55, 25 March 2006 (GMT)

}}

=== The Ghost Elephant ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, miniboss|
suggest_scope=Event|
suggest_description=Somewhere on the island is an animal that exists purely as a temporary event. The Legendary Ghost Elephant - in reality, an aggressive albino pachyderm of incredible size - is said to roam the island of Shartak. Some Natives revere it, others desire to be recorded as the one who slayed it. Some Outsiders wish to study it, others desire to have it as a trophy. It behaves much like any other elephant on Shartak. However, it has a different label, an unfathomable amount of HP, and deals horrific damage. If you heal the Ghost Elephant with a FAK or Herbs, you receive double XP. And to further serve a challenge, don't place an HP cap on the Ghost Elephant, just give it a starting amount. If possible, a log of all actions performed on the Ghost Elephant should be kept by the server and revealed in the event that it dies.|
suggest_time=03:58, 17 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*Ha! I like this one, Lint, and simple to implement. It should really have a boatload of HP, as I think few will consider expending valuable healing items on it, when its far easier (and more rewarding) to hack away at it for 40 AP then make a run for it! --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 16:42, 17 March 2006 (GMT)

*Arr! I would ride that ghost beast like a horse jus' fer fun, then slay 't t' sell its tusks t' them outsiders an' th' meat t' them natives. --[[User:El Pirata Cofresi|El Pirata Cofresi]] 17:46, 17 March 2006 (GMT)

*In the Congo they refer to it as Mokele Mbembe - he who stops the flow of rivers - and it is rumoured to be a lost dinosaur. The island could do with some cryptozoology. Would this creature be able to disappear or hide or move incredibly fast? If not, then once one person finds it, they can just call everyone over to the same square. This kind of defeats the mythical aspect as well as adding potential server problems. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 18:24, 17 March 2006 (GMT)

*I should make the animals attack back in near-realtime first (as in you attack them and they may or may not get an attack in).. just to add a bit of interest to it and stop people running up to the creature and hacking and then running away. Making an animal with an almost unlimited number of HP would be possible.. I guess probably start it with at least double a normal elephant and max of about a thousand HP to prevent people healing it to the point where it'd be impossible to kill. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 18:37, 17 March 2006 (GMT)

*It could be cool, especially if it moved around in a way that made tracking it possible, maybe by destroying the foliage, or moving in a pattern. Also having it move might help keep people from all winding up in one square beating it up. -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 18:41, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
**I've tried to offset the game's focus on combat by encouraging healing (double XP may be too much of a reward, so I'm willing to remove that), but that alone will most likely be not enough to counter the horde of blood-thirsty savages! Healing with the Herbs and FAKs may actually be seen as healing the Ghost Elephant spiritually rather than merely physically, which is why it's health can grow high. I don't see a problem if it became near-unkillable. I like keeping some myths and legends around. I thought that it would be best if it traveled like an elephant, but it is true that it limits the people that are able to participate in the event. Perhaps it should "teleport", after a certain amount of time in an area - "A wall of fog sweeps in through jungle. When it fades, you see that the Ghost Elephant has vanished as well." I requested for a log of actions to determine who killed it, who attacked it the most, who healed it the most, and who got hurt the most. Also, rather than a recurring animal, I thought it would be best to release it as an event that occurs every now and then. Or maybe only once! --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 19:32, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
***Hmm, when the elephant reappears, it should give a loud trumpet which can be heard over a certain radius to increase the chance of players coming across it. Unless of course players would prefer that it were more stealthy. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:25, 4 April 2006 (BST)

*I like it. And of course, you needn't stick to land animals; a mysterious sea creature that patrols the island waters and is reported to be 30ft long could prompt more people to vernture into the waters for a glimpse/trophy etc. Sharks will also be a problem for those searching! --[[User:Malphas|Malphas]] 15:52, 19 March 2006 (GMT)

*I ''love'' this idea.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:08, 28 March 2006 (BST)

*Great idea!--[[User:Paradox244|Paradox244]] 21:04, 24 May 2006 (BST)

}}

=== Auto Attack ===
I've never liked the fact that while I am away from the game, things can happen to my character, like being chewed on by a tiger or slashed with a machette. How about a setting where you can turn your character on to auto attack anything that hits you. It should, of course, be user selected. This would change the game mechanics a bit, as you could no longer move in on a target and attack it withough fear of a counter-strike. To me this is far more realistic, in that even if you are sleeping, when somebody hits you, you're going to wake up and do something about it with whatever engery you have left.

An alternative selectable action might be an auto-run. You can pre-specify the direction you want to run and how many squares upon being hit. A character with trekking could stay alive just by running a few square whenever they are hit.
--[[User:Qberry|Qberry]] 02:34, 20 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* The main problem with this is that players will be discouraged from attacking other players, as this will become extremely dangerous, and the native warrior who wants the outsiderts out will effectively be penalised.[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 15:47, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
* Sorry, but I don't like this. I feel that that this will lead to interactions with players that are no different than interacting with an NPC. Could someone theoretically max themselves out by just leaving this option on and checking in every now and then to make sure they haven't become a spirit? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 17:28, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
* Yeah, I'm not a fan of being able to do something by not doing something, such as fighting or running without being there to fight or run. Also, would it be free of AP and IP hits, or would it be possible to come back and have no AP or hits left? It seems like these problems would wreck any sort of auto action. I can understand not enjoying being macheted while away, but I don't see any way around this. -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 18:20, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
* I must admit that I don't like the idea all that much, but if it was implemented it would probably be something that was user configurable. I don't think running away would make sense, but fighting back does. For example, no more than X AP to be used fighting back until you next log back in, and they wouldn't be used unless you had more than Y AP left. This way you could set X to 10 and Y to 6 and if you ran out of AP, set those values, it would be 2 hours (6 x 20m) before you were likely to attack, and it would use no more than 10 AP fighting back. Because the values are configurable, it would be hard to know who would fight back and who wouldn't. Setting X to 0 would disable the feature. I think probably the attacks would gain XP if successful, same as normal, but because you wouldn't be able to set the number of AP to use to more than your max AP value, it would be impossible to level up a character by simply leaving them alone (not to mention you would disappear from the map after being idle for a bit). --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 21:01, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
* i like the idea of counterattack , but with some limits. You have only a % of counterattacking someone (25%?) , you don't consume AP , you don't get XP. But , whit wich weapon do you attack?--[[User:JonesDye|JonesDye]] 10:05, 27 March 2006 (BST)
* The impetus behind auto-attack is to lessen the chance and impact of Badness happening to your character while you're away, but auto-attack isn't the proper solution to this. Shartak's appropriate skill would be jungle hiding, though a construction skill would work too, if we want to be more like that other game. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 13:51, 4 April 2006 (BST)
* What the animals are doing now is basically what I was saying should be an option for players. In fact, now that the animals counter-attack, it's become far more safe to attack a high-level soldier than it is to attack a parrot. All the more reason to implement this feature. It will also introduce more strategy into gameplay, such as how many AP to reserve for counter attacks, etc. It could be as simple as: enable auto-attack (toggle), if enabled, select weapon (pull-down menu), select AP to stop self-defense (pull-down?). If you select 0, you'd attack until exhausted or they left. If you select some non-zero, you'd attack until you were down to that amount. I kill a lot of other players, but I still say this would be very good for game mechanics, especially considering the new animal behavior. --[[User:Qberry|Qberry]] 06:00, 1 June 2006 (GMT)
** I would only agree with that one if it was only against animals. I don't think auto-defense was a good idea ''at all'', but now that it's in, I think that ours should only work against NPCs.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 20:11, 1 June 2006 (BST)
*** Unfortunately this could only exacerbate the Banshee Wailing Spam problems. An auto-defense option is worthless against spirits, and Banshee Wails could easily be the leading cause of damage and death in Shartak (during May 2006). Implement Exorcism before worrying about AP-costs and pull-down-menus for melee parry defense systems. --20:48, 1 June 2006 (BST)
**** Exactly. Actually, I've been thinking more on this. It's really a good thing that the animals are so dangerous now. The focus should be more on the struggle between natives and outsiders. Plus, it makes Animal Affinity that much better, which gives a good reason to play a villager or a settler.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 23:48, 1 June 2006 (BST)
*I support this idea in theory, but of course it must be approached carefully. I like JonesDye's idea of not gaining XP for counter-attacks, and there are so many other factors to consider. QBerry-- you should start a thread about this in the forums to get all sides of the debate and get discussion going. This could be a great feature if implemented correctly. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:47, 4 June 2006 (BST)
----

===Flavor Text===

this section is where "users" add "flavor" to the game, im just suggesting that every few steps the computer say a message depending on location, here ill give a few examples:

*'''grasslands'''
**the grassy field sways under the wind's rush as you take a step.|
**something far off squaks and makes a strange throaty bellow.|

*'''water'''
**a wave crashes calmly in the distance|
**a spalsh can be heard from far off|

*'''jungle'''
**a parrot's call can be heard distantly|
**the bushes nearby are rustling from the small wildlife in them|

*'''village (outsider)'''
**the smell of gunpowder wafts into your lungs|
**the smoke comming from a nearby hut smells of fresh turkey|

*'''village (native)'''
**the shaman's voice can be heard traveling through the village|
**you step on the bones of what appears to be a rattlesnake|

*'''beach'''
**the hot sand burns your feet, yet feels wonderfully different|
**several sea shells catch your eye from far off|

please feel free to update these with more, as they are just a list (if simon decides to) that will be used for flavor.
i want to do this because the game gets kinda boring simply traversing through square after square

''Comments''
* One of the noticeable, distinct aspects of that other game are the different messages for each building; i really like this idea. A criticism, though - i'd refrain from mentioning living animals/people or useful items in the descriptions, they could be confusing to newbies. In other words, "a parrot's call can be heard distantly" isn't appropriate, and "the shaman's voice can be heard traveling through the village" might not be appropriate if the shaman is currently dead. The following could substitute: "You see a large ant colony busily rebuilding their hive" (an animal that has no game impact) and "The spirit of Shubar is felt all around you" (doesn't matter if Shubar is alive or dead). --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 14:05, 4 April 2006 (BST)
* I sort of feel like this is something that could easily be put together with a Greasemonkey script. It would be nice, but it isn't really necessary. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 05:35, 5 April 2006 (BST)
----

===slots/ new inventory===
slots and inventory could be implemented where, a picture of a silhouette was shown, with names of equiped items in slotted areas, ex: you skin a goat, find some sharp rocks and fashion yourself some claws, you then put them on, giving you +1 damage to all melee attacks
[[Suggestions:Items#animal wearings|animal wearings]]

"Comments below"

Making Claws? and not "all melee attacks" but only punch attacks --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 06:45, 29 March 2006 (BST)

I don't see why you need item slots for this. Having a pair of claws in the inventory would just improve punch damage by 1. That said, I don't like the idea of making oneself claws. Seems a little silly, when you have actual weapons around. Seems a little silly, either way, really. Perhaps that's just my sense of aesthetics, though, and not that of the majority of the players.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 06:37, 4 April 2006 (BST)
----

===Boat Construction===
Boats wouldn't be able to go into The very deep water people can't go into because the tides would rip them apart but could go move in all water for only 1 AP and it also prevents sharks from biting you. Multipule people could get into a boat based on how much wood is used, like
n*.001 x 1 = People Where n = The amount of wood used.

'''Edit'''

When Boats are being boarded each player may vote on who they decide should be the captain. The captian may move boat, call the boat any non vulgar name and anyone may jump off the boat at any time except the captain. Boats could only be built on a beach and automaticly once built move the person who constructed it into the nearest water square. Players may board the baot at any time by moving into the same square as it and selecting enter. When the captain moves the boat onto a land square the boat is destroyed and all people who boarded are thrown onto the beach. Players may change the captain at any time by changing there vote. Natives can not board Outsider boats and outsiders can not board native boats. What the boat looks like and is called depends on the size of it.

1 person: Raft

2 people: Large raft

3-4: Small boat

5-6: Boat

7-9: Large Boat

10-24: Huge Boat

25 and up: Gigantic Boat

--[[User:Slith|Slith]] 06:42, 29 March 2006 (BST)

''Comments''
*check out the skills section, i already suggested something like that.... anyway, check it out --[[User:Richard Rose|Richard Rose]]
*While the huts are handled in Richard's suggestion, I am interested in the boat aspect. I think that placing multiple players on a boat will be troublesome. Who decides where the boat goes - the server? the first player on the boat? It's also important to keep in mind that we already are offered a skill to help with moving in water - '''Swimming'''. If we are to introduce rafts, there should be some mechanics set in place to minimize their usefulness. Perhaps carrying a raft through non-water terrain doubles movement cost to discourage players from carrying one everywhere. Perhaps the raft only has a limited amount of moves in deep water before breaking up. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:44, 29 March 2006 (BST)
** Yeah I changed the suggestion based on your suggestion's :) --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 04:40, 30 March 2006 (BST)
*"Welcome to the Shartak ferry sevice. Please pay the captain your fee of 3 coins. We will be departing for the pirate ship in 3 hours. The captain has locked the destination coordinates and will not change directions unless the boat's integrity is threatend. We will arive in 50 AP + 10 AP per passenger + 5 per day due to drift. You are encouraged to help paddle the boat as this will help us arive sooner. If you decide to leave the boat at any time we will not refund you or allow you to reboard. Please do not pull out any corks or kick any boards as the boat is fragile and will sink if badly damaged."--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 05:06, 1 April 2006 (BST)
** Yeah ^^ That too --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 00:48, 3 April 2006 (BST)
* Boats sound cool. There are a lot of different ways to implement boats that aren't that complicated. Here's one example: suppose that a boat can hold 4 people. Anyone who wants to control the boat spends 4 AP to move the boat one square (larger boats move more slowly). Thus the boat could wander back and forth depending on who currently has the helm, but is unlikely to travel faster than a swimmer. Anyone (native or outsider) can dive overboard or climb onboard at any time, and the boat can be chopped up and destroyed by enough effort. ... The way I envision it, a boat never leaves the water -- the boat gets constructed on a beach square and then can only be moved onto water. It is never an inventory item. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 09:31, 2 June 2006 (BST)
**That's a good idea. I would go so far, though, as to say that it has to be constructed in shallow water.It would just make it easier. I would propose that the boat require four pieces of driftwood, plus two for every extra person. Thus a 1-man raft would be 4 pieces, a 2-man raft would be 6, a 3-man would be 8, and so on.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 18:26, 2 June 2006 (BST)
***Although there's no reason not to require, umm, a boatload of wood for construction, rather than just 2 + 2 per person. If the boat has any advantages at all over swimming, you could easily require huge quantities of wood without game imbalance. The original suggester had 1000 pieces per person, that's over the top, but why not 18 wood per person or something. That means N sailors could build an N-person boat in a single day searching at Shartak's Shipyard. Although construction might require another day of additional AP, and a hammer... --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 23:07, 2 June 2006 (BST)
::::I'd be in favor of boat construction, but it should be ''significantly'' harder and MUCH more time consuming to work, really only the most hardcore players should try it. Realistically, a person should need about 20 pieces of wood to displace their own body weight, so 20 wood per person is about right. It should take at least a week of devoted searching to come up with this amount for one person, and would require a fair amount of organization to build a large craft, but come on, its a BOAT! Virtually no attacks from anyone ever! Easy access to hard-to-reach islands! It should be extremely rare and time-consuming to do this IMO.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 05:18, 3 June 2006 (BST)

----

===Poisoning===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, status effect, balance|
suggest_scope=All classes, primarily Warriors|
suggest_description=Currently, the blowpipe can only carry 1 dart, yet weighs the same amount of inventory space as a rifle with 2 bullets. If you were to pit a fully leveled Soldier armed with loaded rifles against a fully leveled Warrior armed with loaded blowpipes, the battle is in favor of the Soldier who requires less time to reload while inbattle and dealing superior damage. (rifle's 5 to blowpipe's 4).

To address this, I would propose that poison darts actually cause poisoning. Poisoning would behave much like a shark bite - causing 1 HP damage per action performed until they are administered a FAK or medical herbs. A character can die if poison is left untreated. The attacker receives no additional XP for this kill or the damage dealt from poison. Poisoning would not stack, but it would be possible for a character to suffer from both poison and shark bites. The introduction of poison may require the dart's damage to be reduced to something substantially lower. Perhaps a default of 2 HP inflicted.

Up for discussion - does poisoning have a percent chance of occurring, an AP lifespan (only lasts 10 moves), and perhaps only works on non-npc characters?|
suggest_time=18:38, 6 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*Sounds great! I've heard that some of the toxicins used to poison darts can induce illutions. It would be interesting if poisoning increases AP usage for certain actions or even better imagined enemies (that Sixth Sence could pick out).--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 08:24, 7 April 2006 (BST)
* Have you seen the size of the some of the blowpipes that certain tribes carry? They're anything from 6 to 10 foot long! It's hardly surprising that they occupy the same inventory space as a rifle :) On the other hand, poisoning from darts sounds like a good idea.. I don't know that they should poison forever though, maybe for a limited number of AP, but perhaps have the effect be cumulative up to a certain point? Get shot 5 times and you lose 1 HP for every AP used for 5 x whatever the limit is. Does that make sense? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 21:16, 7 April 2006 (BST)
***Exactly - e.g., each poison dart that hits adds 2 AP to the poison duration, and while poisoned, you lose 1HP per AP used. The Poison Dart would eventually inflict 6 hp of damage, offsetting the extra damage and double barrel of the rifle. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 07:22, 12 April 2006 (BST)
**That might work, that way the Warrior has incentive to continue using the blowpipe multiple times on a target rather than just switch to their machete after the poison takes effect. Add to the character table a boolean flag (Poison = True) and give it a Poison Timer int. When the timer reaches 0, the Poison gets flipped to False. When the character dies or a FAK or Herb is applied, the Poison gets flipped to False and the timer gets set to 0. If the flag is True and they're poisoned again, stack the timer. I'm going to put forth this suggestion to the Forum. I don't have a lot of experience with using the blowpipe (I'm a machete guy) so they should weigh in on this. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:17, 7 April 2006 (BST)
* Or how about you can find [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_dart_frog#Toxicity frogs] and use them to put differnt posion effects on your darts? --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 04:57, 11 April 2006 (BST)
:*If we're adding poison dart frogs, I demand that they be lickable. It wouldn't be right, if you couldn't lick the poison dart frogs.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 20:14, 11 April 2006 (BST)
::* Ok... then some benifical frogs too! And people can't tell the diffrence between them unless they get some skill? --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 06:27, 17 April 2006 (BST)
*Bump! Awaiting a short lifespan (eg 4hp) additional poison effect for poison darts. And/or Native-only Poisoning skill so that Snake + Dart = uberdart that causes permanent poisoning (aka shark wound). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 20:51, 1 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===PvP Protection===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, pvp, nopvp, vs, player versus player|
suggest_scope=All Classes|
suggest_description=A full implementation of player versus player protection. This would be a nice feature for newbies allowing them time to adjust to the game without getting slaughtered. I envisage something allowing you to enable nopvp without the ability to disable for at least 100AP. Also when you hit a player who is flagged nopvp then you would get a message along the lines of "As your blade bounces off an invisible shield you suddenly notice a shamanic medicine pouch around the neck of target, they are protected, it would be pointless to continue to attack target." where target will be replaced by the players name.|
suggest_time=10:00, 13 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Iamtas|Iamtas]]|
suggest_comments=

* This is a good, well-thought suggestion. But while I don't generally like PKing, I think it is important to keep it available to those that do enjoy it. With XP penalties and easy resurrection, PKing not ruining the game from my perspective and it shouldn't be restricted further. I would not mind a method of informing players that view my character profile to see that I am flagged for pvp or not, but I am against preventing PVP without purchasing such an ability. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 21:16, 13 April 2006 (BST)
* New players already get an AP bonus and need less XP to level; I don't see the need for a newbie specific ability. I'd rather see a safe area over a moveable system - something like a sacred hut in native villages and a guard hut in outsider villages which anyone who hasn't attacked another player in 100 AP can enter and within which all PvP activity is prohibited, wastes AP, or perhaps results in HP loss only to the attacker ("Your attack has angered the mighty (spirits or guards) in the area; they smite you").--[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 04:12, 14 April 2006 (BST)
*Having both a PvP pirate and a pacifist shaman, and having been PKed on both... I don't like this idea. I like the 100AP newbie status. I don't like the "enabling" nopvp. Sorry. Death is a part of the game. If you walk into a tribe of hostile headhunters, they aren't going to just stand by and let you through--no matter how peaceful your business.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 04:27, 14 April 2006 (BST)
*I'm aware that new players get extra AP and newbie protection isn't what this is about. It is more useful for being protected from the players that sit in their home town bashing away at their own folk. Even with that said my main reason for nopvp was for another idea I have for a skill track that at the time of thinking about it I thought would require a nopvp implementation. I may post the skill track idea sometime when I have finished thinking about all the details.--[[User:Iamtas|Iamtas]] 12:07, 14 April 2006 (BST)
*How about you can't be attacked in your village/settlement by people that come from your village/settlement? --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 06:30, 17 April 2006 (BST)

}}

===New strategic location on island===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=New location, Game mechanics, |
suggest_scope=N/A|
suggest_description=I think the addition of one or more major new "strategic" locations on the island would greatly improve the game. What exactly it would be can be worked out, all it really ''has'' to be is very valuable to occupy and far away from any village or town (i.e. far away from any shaman). Both sides would rush to occupy this location and would fight each other for control of it.

This would have 3 major benefits for the game that I can see: 1) It would get the action away from towns/villages/shamans, 2) It would make death more meaningful and make killing an enemy meaningful (all death means in towns/villages now is having to float five spaces or so to the shaman and then you get a free revive. There are no easy/free revives out in the center of the island, you would lose both location and the 50 AP to contact, unless you decide to stick around and play as a spirit), 3) It would give people a goal in the game, a major location to fight over and defend, a location that isn't pointless to fight over, as towns/villages are because they cannot be taken. All in all it would have the benefit of making the game more fun.

As far as what the new location would be exactly, one idea could be gold mine(s). They would be valuable because standing on a gold mine square would give you 1 gold coin/hr and require no AP expenditure. The specifics of this are wide open and dont even much matter, as long as the location is far from settlements and very valuable to occupy so players will flock out there and fight for control, making for an exciting time and making killing enemies non-pointless.

If implemented, it should only be one new location at first, with maybe a couple more introduced later once things get going. The location should have a name, and it should be relayed to players in the form of Game News so that everyone knows of its existance and where it is in general terms, e.g. "A gold mine was discovered just south of the mountain, Natives and Outsiders are both rushing out there for control".

''Note: One of the raisons d'etre for this suggestion has been eliminated with the shaman changes, so this suggestion is less relevant than it was and in some ways outdated. It might still be workable, though it will have to be approached differently.'' [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:27, 4 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_time=21:02, 22 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Arminius|Arminius]]|
suggest_comments=

* I realise it was just an example, but 1 gold per hour without any AP requirement is probably a bit much. Definitely something to expand on though. I like it. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 21:46, 22 April 2006 (BST)
** For example, award 1 gold coin to any one player at random who is on the mine for at least the full hour. Or only award 1 gold coin at random to any one player if only one side occupies the mine -- if both outsiders and nativers are present, they are fighting for control and no one is mining. Generally speaking, 24 gold coins per <s>hour</s>day fed into the entire game will not mess up the economy -- that's probably less than 75-150 AP of searching (and a trip to the trading hut). Alternatively, allow players to search the area with a <s>15%</s> 40% find rate for one gold coin, as long as none of the opposing faction are present in the square. Drawbacks: (1) This sort of high-impact location could also increase zerging/cheating, which wouldn't be fun for anyone. (2) A gold mine could rapidly devalue gold coins until they're effectively worthless, ending the "value" of the mine. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 02:22, 23 April 2006 (BST)
***Giving out small numbers of coins to only a certain percentage of the people on the mine square seems too low a reward, while the original 1 gold coin per hour is definitely too high. But unless people get something tangible every hour that they stand there, people may not bother to fight for control of the mine, which is the whole point. Here is an idea: Make a new item called "gold nugget". Every hour that you are standing on the gold mine square and your faction controls it, you get one gold nugget. Then create a hut 1 square adjacent to the mine and inside have an NPC called "gold prospector Jim" (for example), who will "cash in" your nuggets, 10 nuggets (or 5, or whatever is deemed the best number) for one coin. Gold nuggets on their own would have no value. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 14:57, 29 April 2006 (BST)
****You could achieve the same effect without creating a prospector hut just by giving a straight 10% (or 20%) chance of 1 gold coin each hour. (To me a single "prospector Jim" gets a bit sketchy if a thousand people are rushing the mine...). In my opinion, you get better scalability and realism if the gold-per-person decreases as people increase. If there are a thousand people on the mine, then each person gets only 5% chance per hour (=50gc/hour production). If there are 10 people on the mine, then each one gets a 100% chance per hour (=10gc/hour production). Gold can't be earned from the mine when competing factions are on the location, creating a contested site is the purpose of implementing this suggestion. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 09:41, 2 June 2006 (BST)
::::If there is a 10% chance to get one gold coin per hour, and if during a large portion of the day both natives and outsiders are on the gold mine square so no mining is going on, then the odds would be that the lots of people would get 0 gold coins (or very few) before being killed, a total waste of time for them, and they might not bother going back after they're killed, which defeats the gold mine's purpose as a strategic location that people will fight over. This is why I say people need something tangible every hour. In fact, that should be revised to "something tangible every AP turnover", i.e. every 20 minutes. Even if someone is there for only a short time, they should have something to show for it, which they almost certainly wouldnt with a low % chance per hour of getting one gold coin. Your idea of scaling the gold that the mine produces could be implemented by making Gold Prospector Jim give fewer gold coins the more nuggets he receives. In other words, a gold mining version of the current trading system. Since he will have received 0 gold nuggets as the mine is first discovered, one gold nugget could trade for one gold coin, and as more people start cashing in, the value of a gold nuggest would go down, to where he wants 20 or so nuggets for one gold coin. The value would fluctuate throughout the day and week as people cash in more gold nuggets. This way, scalability is achieved while continuing to be able to reward something tangible every AP turnover. Also, I would say gold nuggets should take 0 inventory space just like gold coins, since in theory 72 could be given out per day to one person, and that would fill up anyone's inventory, allowing them to not receive any more. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:27, 4 June 2006 (BST)

* An alternative to the gold mine would be some kind of ancient treasure hoard, so not just gold coins but also statues, ancient armour and maybe some pretty nasty weapons. However, to get the good stuff you'd have to go into the trap-filled maze and actually make it into the chamber where the treasure is. With spirit-proof doors so people don't just die, go in, find the correct route, revive and go in...[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 17:33, 24 April 2006 (BST)
**This is interesting but seems overly complicated, and seems like more of a one-shot kind of thing, but most significantly there is no real value in holding such a location. A gold mine would be a simple, straightforward, and constantly of high value to occupy. Also, once one person finds the way through the maze, soon everyone would know. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 14:57, 29 April 2006 (BST)
***Good point... Ignore my suggestion, it's not very good... [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 12:27, 2 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Life cycle===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=balance change|
suggest_scope=NPC animals|
suggest_description=Currently the main way of leveling up is by killing things (i.e. NPCs & characters) I suggest there be some sort of life cycle for animals. For example, when there are massive amounts of tigers being killed less spawn. But if everybody leaves tigers alone, more spawn. If would look something like this:
:0-5% of animal type killed, x5 spawn rate
:6-15% of animal type killed, x2 spawn rate
:16-45% of animal type killed x1 spawn rate
:46-75% of animal type killed x0.5 spawn rate
:76-99% of animal type killed x0.1 spawn rate
:100% of animal type killed, animal is extinct
 This forces people to find alternative ways to gain Xp (possibly more lucrative ones?)|
suggest_time=03:22, 29 May 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

I have the funny feeling that animals would start going extinct, which would just be a pain. I'd rather not see this one implemented.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 15:50, 29 May 2006 (BST)
: Would work if there was a total animal population that was always kept, so if tigers start to become extinct more deer appear, but this would lead to an island of only elephants. Would also work if the animals that were extinct reemerged later on, then it would just be annoying. But the goal of "find alt ways to gain Xp" won't be realised via this manner - it would instead lead to more player vs player action. Instead of taking away our current methods, perhaps other methods of xp gaining could be added, like the agriculture skill, or some current activities could have an xp bonus (we get xp for uncovering trees, why not for finding fruits? Could trading become xp-worthy?).--[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 16:47, 29 May 2006 (BST)
:: I don't know why we should force people to find the lucrative alternative ways to gain XP. Animals are extremely rare in some areas of Shartak, and PKing and PvP is common. Banshee wailing spam, punch-heal farming, and gratuitous healer orgies are annoying enough already. Basically, the non-healing/non-harming XP paths need to be more viable: XP for exploring, chopping, discovery, contacting foreign villages, and so on. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 10:01, 2 June 2006 (BST)


}}

===Moving through fully chopped down or overgrown jungle===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Movement change|
suggest_scope=Every character in the game|
suggest_description=I sugget a change in the movement mechanics. It may not be approved by you, but I think it's logical. I wouls like to see a change that allows to reduce movement on fully chopped (d0) squares of jungle (I think that a reduction to 0,5 AP/move <s>(0,25 AP/move with Trekking skill)</s>, and an increase on (I think) squares ranging from d7 to d9 to 2 AP/move (1 AP/move with Trekking). D10 squares stay impossible to pass, until chopped. The logic says that when you have nothing under your feet except for ground you move faster, and in dense growth areas you walk slower. Such a change as I proposed may also need an adjustment in the jungle growth speed.|
suggest_time=22:15, 1 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Xintlaer|Xintlaer]]|
suggest_comments=

*I like this, except the part about the trekking skill giving the ability to move 4 d(0) squares in one AP, that should definitely not be done. Maybe this: trekking should only apply to d(1) and up (the skill description says "faster movement through the jungle" anyway), and on d(0), all characters, whether trekking or not, should expend 0.5 AP to move onto another d(0) square. (note that if both of those changes are made it would not harm trekking-people, their AP-usage would be same as it is now.) One benefit of lowering movement cost on d(0) squares as far as game dynamics is concerned, is that it would make roads, the upkeep of roads, and the upkeep of towns (keeping towns free of jungle overgrowth), actually meaningful in a practical sense, by allowing for quicker travel. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 22:41, 1 June 2006 (BST)
** Exactly what I was going to say, Arminius. Trekking on a road would be absolutely incredible... so we just don't give trekkers any added bonus there.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 23:52, 1 June 2006 (BST)
***Understood, agreed, changing--[[User:Xintlaer|Xintlaer]] 09:13, 2 June 2006 (BST)
*0.5 AP per square on roads (still 0.5 AP with Trekking). 2 AP per square on heavy jungle (1 AP with Trekking). Creates tangible effect for the Highway Society - Preservation Front conflicts. An absolutely brilliant suggestion. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 10:06, 2 June 2006 (BST)
* Nice idea. Tap tap tap.. try that.. I think it should be pretty much what you've said. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 19:40, 2 June 2006 (BST)

}}

Suggestions:Game mechanics

2006-06-03T23:31:17Z

Arminius: /* New strategic location on island */

{{:Suggestions/Header|page_type=Game Mechanics}}

== Game Mechanics ==

=== Conversion ===
When an Outsider/Native dies they are reborn as a Native (don't really understand the spirit thing too well). The Outsiders then get a new class/skill, "Religious Conversion" that requires a "Holy Scripture". This allows a "Priest" to convert one native into a Outsider". The converted native would most likely start off as a Settler. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* I believe that Natives are reborn as Natives and Outsiders are reborn as Outsiders, but I could be wrong. From a game balance perspective, I am not in favor of type-swapping skills unless Natives are presented with an ability to counter or convert Outsiders as well. It does fit nicely with the theme though. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:41, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

* That would probably be the shamans job, however it may have worked for Urban Dead but I don't think it will work in this game as whichever group has the most players to begin with will, once conflicts begin to arise, dominate by switching people from the side they are on the side the priest/"whatever the natives use" side making you able to graph one groups population by looking at the graph pop=(1/2)^x. Also since there wouldn't seem to be a way, short of finding a converter player to switch you back, to go back to playing as you once did would make the amount of people on one side quickly die off (even though thats what would happen in real life, favouring the outsiders) it would be a very unfun aspect of the game. And really these are HOSTILE natives, or so it seems, why would they let some devilman outsider tell it how it is? They wouldn't, they would simply spear them and laugh! In short all the converting ideas suck, I know I wouldn't want to log on to find I'm playing for the wrong side. -- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 10:55, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

* So that means if my soldier dies, he's reborn as a native? Not only that, but to become an outsider again, first I would have to find a priest (which would be next to impossible with such a small number of players), and then he could convert me into a settler. That means I'll never be able to be a soldier again, which is a real punch in the throat for RPers. -- Grigoriy

*All valid points. I guess this wouldn't really work we have the same number of players as Urban Dead. But this would be a great way to balance out the sides later on. Say there are too many natives, you just drop more "conversion items" and balance out the sides. Too many Outsiders? Just drop the number of conversion items. Doubt it would catch on though. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 02:44, 19 February 2006 (GMT)

*Conversion doesn't have to be forced. It could require action on both sides, like a native doning a religious item and an outsider using the skill on that native. After all, conversion isn't real without true faith. The native counter to this could be similar, requiring an outsider to die holding a packet of that headshrinking powder while a shaman uses the Zombification (ala Haitian witchcraft) skill. -- frisco

*You don't change class or anything when you die. --[[User:Murk|Murk]] 12:31, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

*I gave a response t othis idea under "Holy Scriptures," I think, offering another idea for it that may piss a lot less people off. *points over there*--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:15, 29 March 2006 (BST)
----

=== Capturing villages ===
Since this is like some war between Outsiders and Natives I thought this appropriate. If all the (say) Outsiders are killed in York and there are none left, then it becomes a Native village and vice versa. Probably needs harder requirements to capture settlements though. Maybe each side could have one permanent place that can never change hands? --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:41, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
:Not sure about this - what about all the idle players within the village? They might "wake up" after a couple of weeks to find they're in enemy territory. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:00, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

:You could have it so idle players goto the nearest friendly village-- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 02:58, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

:Turf control in a limited AP browser game like this just invites lame zerging behavior. I don't like it. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:00, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

:Not villages, perhaps 3x3 square 'forts'? --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 01:10, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

:I do like the idea, but I think Jackel's observation hits a key point. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

:Agreed with Jackel and Lint and Simon. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 13:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT) Additionally:
::* Please don't impose your assumption that Shartak is at heart a "war between Outsiders and Natives" on the rest of us. That is not the only possible direction in which this game can go. For example, an Outsider village might turn out to be populated by a trading company that views the other Outsider villages as competitors whose extermination would be good for business, but it could just as easily develop into a peaceful scientific outpost, a pirate haven of drunken debauchery, or a missionary settlement devoted to finding the Natives and learning their language (gotta spread that old time religion). I believe it would be better to keep the objectives more freeform, and let the players create the course of history. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 13:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
::* On a hopefully more helpful and positive note, one could simulate/approximate capturing a village by amassing an army of suitable size, carving messages of ownership all over the territory of the village in question, killing all members of the village, and repeatedly killing the village shaman so they can't get back as easily. (Ouch. I hope no armchair megalomaniacs out there have been taking notes.) --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 13:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
----

=== Unique skills ===
I think that each class should start off with one unique skill that the others may never aquire. That way it stops all the classes from becoming too generic. For example Settlers could have a "farming" skill, Soldiers could have a "bravery" skill, etc. Or mabey they could just have a attribute like Soldiers have an extra 10% chance of striking the target, Warriors have an extra 10% chance of finding animals, Settlers have an extra 10% chance of finding an item, Scouts have a 3% chance of recovering 1 HP per AP spent, etc. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 02:34, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
:I am in favor of this (if it is not in effect currently). We'd have to work out the details to make sure each class is getting their fair share, but something that encourages players to try other classes or team up with other players using different classes for a better playing experience sounds good to me. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
:I am in favor of each class being able to acquire (but not necessarily starting off with) a unique skill or attribute that the others may never acquire. Sounds to me like the kind of thing that would be unlocked as one's reward for a rite of passage, rather than granted as a right of birth. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 12:53, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
:Perhaps a Research skill of some kind for the Scientist, maybe allowing them an advantage when doing things with dead animals (would need something to do with dead animals, obviously!).[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 16:09, 16 March 2006 (GMT)
:Pirates should have a skill to steal their fallen enemies' gold coins. Arr. Would probably result in a lot of outsider in-fighting, though, and outsiders are currently outnumbered.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:18, 29 March 2006 (BST)
:I agree with this as well. It seems Shartak is on the way to giving each class their own benefits (Soldiers/Warriors with gun skills, Settlers/Villagers with animal affinity etc.), but so far only a few have been made unique. At present there is really no point to being a scientist. He starts with 10 gold coins... what the? So I'm pushing for each class to have at least one unique skill they can purchase with XP. --[[User:Rip Purr|Rip Purr]] 11:50, 3 June 2006 (BST)
----

=== Pet System ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics|
suggest_scope=All classes|
suggest_description=I will combine aspects of the '''Animal''' and '''Pirate''' suggestions and propose a pet system that allows you to tame one of the animals on the island. First, you have to weaken the animal. Then you throw a sphere device at it and shout "SHARTAK SPHERE! GO!" for 1 AP. There's a slight chance that you have captured and tamed the animal. The more powerful the animal, the less success chance. You earn no XP for taming an animal. Players can only have 1 pet at a time. They can release a pet whenever they want. If the owner dies, the pet runs away. Pets have fixed HP, attack, and accuracy based on the type of animal they are (ie. they do not level up or heal, just to keep it simple to design). They follow the player around and only attack when the player attacks. It would be nice if they attacked while you were not playing, but auto-defense mechanisms are unnecessary. Enemy animals randomly determine whether they are attacking the owner or the pet. Other players will have an option for targeting the owner or pet. There is no XP gained for attacking or killing a pet to deter any attempts at farming pet killing (I can't believe we even have to consider preventing such a thing). For added flavor, owners can name their pets.|
suggest_time=08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*ROTFL. Sounds a bit like Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh (don't worry, I'm not a fan, I have kids that were!). Perhaps instead of spheres, you could keep the monkeys on a leash, heal a tiger or elephant to make it less likely to attack you, tame deer by feeding them, etc. Some animals like the wild boar would have to be pretty difficult to tame. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:14, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
*I was with you right up until you got to the "sphere device" bit, and I rejoined you afterwards. ;) The rest of your suggestion otherwise seems to be pretty well thought out. Personally, I'd prefer to attempt to tame the animal into becoming a pet purely by offering it food, rather than "weakening" it by other means. Especially since food is scarce enough that offering it to an animal would be a real sacrifice and therefore an interesting decision for the player to make. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:49, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
*I will confess that I had a lot of fun with the references. The problem I have with using an existing item to tame a pet is how to implement it. The player can't click on the fruit, because that will just heal themselves. And I think it is unecessary to redesign fruits like First Aid Kits and Medical Herbs, just so they can feed it to an animal. And a database check to see if the player possesses a fruit before providing a "tame" command seems awkward. Perhaps there is just one item called "animal bait" (from the Trade Hut most likely). It works much like a FAK or Herb, but can only be applied to animals (though there will be a "Yourself" option by default for those players that decide they enjoy the taste). Animals will then have a value called "tame count" in the database. For each successful feeding, this number is incremented. When a specific number is reached, the monster is successfully tamed. If a monster is killed, the number is reset to 0. Acquiring a pet should not reduce the population of animals on the island (ie. one should respawn to take its place). Furthermore, those with '''Animal Affinity''' should have a better taming success rate. (This is another attempt to give Villagers and Settlers a little boost.) --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 17:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
*This idea, while somewhat interesting, is not very realitic. The animals of the island are wild. In reality, tigers, elephants, deer, "WILD boars" etc can only be made LESS WILD by extensive and careful training and handling when they are young, not be tamable by any means, certainly not enough to follow a person around and fight on their behalf. Maybe it would be possible with parrots and monkeys, but if Simon is going to implement changes, I'd rather see some of the more believable ones first. I do agree with Lint that it would give more value to '''Animal Affinity'''. Animal attacks, even from a tiger or elephant (which would realistically be very dangerous) are hardly to be feared, making this skill currently seem pretty useless.

* ''The following is a Pet suggestion made by [[User:Richard Rose|Richard Rose]] on 21:47, 24 March 2006:''

as the name reades, simply have "pets" as a survivor living in the jungle, my first instinct would be to find support, in this case we could add a "tame animal" button, which would be clicked to tame an animal, the starting catching % would be something like 10% and could be improved the more the animal is damaged, like at 1hp, if full health was 10hp then you'd have 55% of catching it, (i added 5% for every 10% missing from the creature's health)
this could also be improved with new skills such as

+Amateur Catching Skills (adds 10%)
+Catching Skills (adds 15%, doesnt stack)
+Taming Skills (adds 30%)

+Net (adds 10%, does stack)

certain animals could be ridden, other would do funny things or find objects for you, ex:
Mr. Bobo the monkey finds a bottle of rum in your pocket "gee i didnt know i had that"

elephants, large stags, and tigers could be ridden, small stags would haveto grow up before being ridden, after like, 10 days, or 20 kills they would mature, its all just theory...

parrots could become like flares, ex: Mr. TweetTweet flies towards you and drops a message "help, im at X, Y and there's a native village!"

the parrot could also say messages randomly, players (upon catching a parrot) would be given 10 slots and would type things into them, the parrots would randomly say one, ex:
you attack elephant, Mr. TweetTweet says "polly want a cracker"

animals could also act like extra space, like a backpack, if you will.
animals are named upon capture.

}}

=== Profile Effect Items ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics|
suggest_scope=Inventory and profiles|
suggest_description=These are useless baubles that take up 1 unit of a player's inventory space, but if anyone views their profile they will see that the players possesses the item. Using the item won't accomplish anything and merely produce flavor text. However, if a player is in the presence of another player, using the item would show it off. As with all items, there's no way to trade them with other players. We can have eyepatches and peglegs. We can have tribal masks and warpaint. Maybe some clans would require a certain dress code. Maybe they need 30 pieces of flair. I think it provides an outlet for the less serious gamers. Problems: Serious gamers might be plagued with finding such items and dropping them, wasting (in their opinion) AP and Page Hits. Also, arguing over what items fit with the theme of Shartak will be a headache-inducing process.|
suggest_time=08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

* I like this suggestion. How about finding the pieces of the masks and making your own - combine the baubles with mini-quests? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:18, 8 March 2006 (GMT)
:For example, to make the sacred warrior mask of Raktam, you must find 5 parrot feathers, a tiger tooth, some berries and a piece of driftwood that can be carved into the appropriate shape with a knife or dagger. Once you have all those items, you get a "create mask" option which then removes the required items and the mask appears in your inventory (and profile).
::Having the database check to see if they have all the ingredients seems a bit unwieldly. After every action or inventory use it might have to run the check to verify that they are alive, still have the items, etc. I'd just settle for having them take the items to a specific NPC. But yes, a mixing quest would be fun. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 18:02, 8 March 2006 (GMT)

* I just hope that this idea motivates players to try new things ("I'm going to join a clan that wears such-and-such a mask and attack the others! Yarr!") and not feel that the game is just about collecting items ("Well, I got all the masks. I guess I'm done with the game."). --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 18:02, 8 March 2006 (GMT)

*Maybe the different masks have different effects, from some simple ones (attracting/scaring animals, making them less likely to attack or easier to hit) to the downright blatavt video game reference that turns you into a huge brown rocky guy who can punch boulders apart. OK, maybe not the second one. [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 20:53, 9 March 2006 (GMT)
:I think that's something to be worked on in a separate suggestion. The point of this suggestion is to make useless "fancy hats" that neither add or take away from the established gameplay. However, in the eyes of certain players, they may be invaluable because of how they can incorperate such items into their goals and roleplaying. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:52, 9 March 2006 (GMT)
::Bumping this good suggestion. Let's have some cowrie shells! (And The_Conch(tm), see next suggestion.) The barren ruins and huts seem so sad and pathetic right now, they need some wacky useless trinkets to tide us over... Maybe we need shovels to dig for treasure, too. Yarr! --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:06, 10 May 2006 (BST)

}}

=== Conch Shell Hunt ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, minigame|
suggest_scope=Event|
suggest_description=''Capture the Flag''-ish minigame. Somewhere on the island is a single conch shell item. It can be found by searching anywhere. It takes 1 inventory space and appears when anyone views their profile. When the conch holder is in the presence of other players, flavor text is added to the area description to inform the others that the conch holder is in the area. If the person in possession of the conch drops it, dies, or is idle for more than 5 days, the conch returns to the system. The person who holds the conch the longest gets recognized in the statistics. Killing the conch holder earns special bonus XP. Adept conch holder killers may also be recognized in the statistics. Problems: Someone with multiple characters could take advantage of having the conch on one character and reap the XP and fame with another. There will be a point where a race condition will occur and might result in multiple conches and a broken game.|
suggest_time=08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

* This kind of thing has been on my ideas list, although this is much more detailed version than the one-liner I had. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:05, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
*''I'' have the conch! I'm allowed to speak! *ahem* I mean, um... >.>--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:21, 29 March 2006 (BST)
** Suggestions: (1) Skip bonus for the conch-killer and you remove incentive to zerg. (2) Have the conch break when the conch-bearer dies (respawns on a random beach) and you remove the race condition. (3) Give the conch-bearer an action to blow into the Conch. (You hear the booming echo of a conch being sounded to the south-east.) Maybe 50% chance of 1xp each time you blow the conch, just to give you incentive to attract attention to yourself. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 02:31, 23 April 2006 (BST)


}}

=== Know your foes ===
As a native, I get killed a lot by outsiders, but I just can't strike back when I come back to life, as nothing allows me to identify my agressors amongst the outsiders I meet. I expected some basic language skill to give me access to clickable outsiders profiles, but it doesn't. So. I don't like much the fact that, in this game, the only alternative you have is "attack random outsiders" or "attack none". I'd like to be able to protect myself without being too unfair to peaceful outsiders (and being part of some snowball effect).

This would be partly solved by some profile access (allowing to check people's amount of human kills), or some limited displayed info on the present players (it would make -almost- sense for natives to automatically carry visible scalps or shrunken head of their victims, but I'm not sure how to justify the kills display in the case of outsiders, despite of the fact white men were actually quite fond of indian scalps at some time). Another useful tool would be some urban-dead-like contact list.

Of course, ideally (but absurdly) the most useful stat to be able to see would be the number of kills of people without human kills at the moment of their death, but... -- Leaf

''Comments''
Perhaps seeing the profile of someone on the opposite side if you or they have the advanced language skill would be good, it would be cool to hang around with some natives without worrying about aggressors. --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 21:30, 18 March 2006 (GMT)

If you had a contact list and some way to target individuals on your list ala Urban Dead, I'm guessing that would probably help. Not so sure about the scalp display approach. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 23:36, 18 March 2006 (GMT)

A contact list would be quite useful in Shartak. But also being able to read profiles, maybe through an "observe" button and scroll-down menu. For the moment, people just hit each other once, hoping to miss, in order to get a link to the other guy's profile. There must be a more rationnal way to quench this curiosity. -- Gone 13:36, 10 May 2006 (GMT+1)
----

=== Forest Fire ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, natural disasters|
suggest_scope=Terrain|
suggest_description=This is a potential temporary minigame that will either lead to players to band together and save the island or perhaps just lead to all-out chaos. A fire script is created which designates one block as fire (it is identified by a little fire.gif in the background). Every 20 minutes the fire script will check if there is <del>Grassland or</del> Jungle nearby with density from 1-10. If there is, it spreads to the next block. It will not spread to any other terrain (including villages and ruins). Thus, the best way to prevent the spread of the fire is by chopping vegetation down to 0. The initial fires will be placed randomly around the island. Actions performed in a fire occupied space deal 2 damage. For this event to be more devious, there should be a means to quickly restore vegetation (dropping driftwood, planting fruit, watering with gourds).|
suggest_time=03:58, 17 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*I like some things about this suggestion, I think it could work really nicely if there was also a rain algorithingamajig, so that maybe, if some part of the island dried out, wildfires could break out, or if it rained too much villages could flood and get swamped. Its a neat idea. -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 04:55, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
* I like the idea of rain and fire, however there's no telling if the server would handle the database access/calculations required when the number of players gets into the range that Urban Dead has. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:17, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
** I thought it might be a bit much. Ah well. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 19:32, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
** Not the idea of fire itself, that may well be quite feasible. I meant having rain causing flooding, or not enough rain leading to fires might be a bit awkward.. unless I can think of some way to reduce the work that needs to be done regularly. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 23:38, 18 March 2006 (GMT)
* Maybe fires could also destroy huts, and then there could be a skill to rebuild them. Maybe even give people the ability to start their own fires. It might make for interesting tribal wars. -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 18:22, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
** Imagine what would happen if an ammo hut caught on fire!--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 04:32, 1 April 2006 (BST)
** I kind of wanted to restrict fires to the Jungle (removed my Grasslands comment from the original suggestion) since a lot of Huts provide resources for starting players and players that have just been revived. I think it would be unfair to prevent them with the opportunity to gather supplies. As a tactic, it may also be unfair. Native villages appear to be completely surrounded by burnable Jungle, while Outsider villages are bordered by the Beach. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 19:46, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
** Good point. The pirates would be completely free of burning too. I still think a way to temporarily damage structures could be fun -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 19:59, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
** As a general rule, real world jungles don't burn terribly well, although there are a few notable exceptions (such as the Indonesian forest fires in 1997-98). Grasslands, however, burn quite regularly, and in fact such fires are necessary for the good health of the grass. Fire kills off sapling trees in the area which would otherwise grow to the point that they overshadowed and killed the grass. I don't know whether the game has any grasslands large enough to make this kind of thing interesting, though. --[[User:Jackdaw|Jackdaw]] 15:55, 25 March 2006 (GMT)

}}

=== The Ghost Elephant ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, miniboss|
suggest_scope=Event|
suggest_description=Somewhere on the island is an animal that exists purely as a temporary event. The Legendary Ghost Elephant - in reality, an aggressive albino pachyderm of incredible size - is said to roam the island of Shartak. Some Natives revere it, others desire to be recorded as the one who slayed it. Some Outsiders wish to study it, others desire to have it as a trophy. It behaves much like any other elephant on Shartak. However, it has a different label, an unfathomable amount of HP, and deals horrific damage. If you heal the Ghost Elephant with a FAK or Herbs, you receive double XP. And to further serve a challenge, don't place an HP cap on the Ghost Elephant, just give it a starting amount. If possible, a log of all actions performed on the Ghost Elephant should be kept by the server and revealed in the event that it dies.|
suggest_time=03:58, 17 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*Ha! I like this one, Lint, and simple to implement. It should really have a boatload of HP, as I think few will consider expending valuable healing items on it, when its far easier (and more rewarding) to hack away at it for 40 AP then make a run for it! --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 16:42, 17 March 2006 (GMT)

*Arr! I would ride that ghost beast like a horse jus' fer fun, then slay 't t' sell its tusks t' them outsiders an' th' meat t' them natives. --[[User:El Pirata Cofresi|El Pirata Cofresi]] 17:46, 17 March 2006 (GMT)

*In the Congo they refer to it as Mokele Mbembe - he who stops the flow of rivers - and it is rumoured to be a lost dinosaur. The island could do with some cryptozoology. Would this creature be able to disappear or hide or move incredibly fast? If not, then once one person finds it, they can just call everyone over to the same square. This kind of defeats the mythical aspect as well as adding potential server problems. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 18:24, 17 March 2006 (GMT)

*I should make the animals attack back in near-realtime first (as in you attack them and they may or may not get an attack in).. just to add a bit of interest to it and stop people running up to the creature and hacking and then running away. Making an animal with an almost unlimited number of HP would be possible.. I guess probably start it with at least double a normal elephant and max of about a thousand HP to prevent people healing it to the point where it'd be impossible to kill. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 18:37, 17 March 2006 (GMT)

*It could be cool, especially if it moved around in a way that made tracking it possible, maybe by destroying the foliage, or moving in a pattern. Also having it move might help keep people from all winding up in one square beating it up. -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 18:41, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
**I've tried to offset the game's focus on combat by encouraging healing (double XP may be too much of a reward, so I'm willing to remove that), but that alone will most likely be not enough to counter the horde of blood-thirsty savages! Healing with the Herbs and FAKs may actually be seen as healing the Ghost Elephant spiritually rather than merely physically, which is why it's health can grow high. I don't see a problem if it became near-unkillable. I like keeping some myths and legends around. I thought that it would be best if it traveled like an elephant, but it is true that it limits the people that are able to participate in the event. Perhaps it should "teleport", after a certain amount of time in an area - "A wall of fog sweeps in through jungle. When it fades, you see that the Ghost Elephant has vanished as well." I requested for a log of actions to determine who killed it, who attacked it the most, who healed it the most, and who got hurt the most. Also, rather than a recurring animal, I thought it would be best to release it as an event that occurs every now and then. Or maybe only once! --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 19:32, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
***Hmm, when the elephant reappears, it should give a loud trumpet which can be heard over a certain radius to increase the chance of players coming across it. Unless of course players would prefer that it were more stealthy. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:25, 4 April 2006 (BST)

*I like it. And of course, you needn't stick to land animals; a mysterious sea creature that patrols the island waters and is reported to be 30ft long could prompt more people to vernture into the waters for a glimpse/trophy etc. Sharks will also be a problem for those searching! --[[User:Malphas|Malphas]] 15:52, 19 March 2006 (GMT)

*I ''love'' this idea.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:08, 28 March 2006 (BST)

*Great idea!--[[User:Paradox244|Paradox244]] 21:04, 24 May 2006 (BST)

}}

=== Auto Attack ===
I've never liked the fact that while I am away from the game, things can happen to my character, like being chewed on by a tiger or slashed with a machette. How about a setting where you can turn your character on to auto attack anything that hits you. It should, of course, be user selected. This would change the game mechanics a bit, as you could no longer move in on a target and attack it withough fear of a counter-strike. To me this is far more realistic, in that even if you are sleeping, when somebody hits you, you're going to wake up and do something about it with whatever engery you have left.

An alternative selectable action might be an auto-run. You can pre-specify the direction you want to run and how many squares upon being hit. A character with trekking could stay alive just by running a few square whenever they are hit.
--[[User:Qberry|Qberry]] 02:34, 20 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* The main problem with this is that players will be discouraged from attacking other players, as this will become extremely dangerous, and the native warrior who wants the outsiderts out will effectively be penalised.[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 15:47, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
* Sorry, but I don't like this. I feel that that this will lead to interactions with players that are no different than interacting with an NPC. Could someone theoretically max themselves out by just leaving this option on and checking in every now and then to make sure they haven't become a spirit? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 17:28, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
* Yeah, I'm not a fan of being able to do something by not doing something, such as fighting or running without being there to fight or run. Also, would it be free of AP and IP hits, or would it be possible to come back and have no AP or hits left? It seems like these problems would wreck any sort of auto action. I can understand not enjoying being macheted while away, but I don't see any way around this. -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 18:20, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
* I must admit that I don't like the idea all that much, but if it was implemented it would probably be something that was user configurable. I don't think running away would make sense, but fighting back does. For example, no more than X AP to be used fighting back until you next log back in, and they wouldn't be used unless you had more than Y AP left. This way you could set X to 10 and Y to 6 and if you ran out of AP, set those values, it would be 2 hours (6 x 20m) before you were likely to attack, and it would use no more than 10 AP fighting back. Because the values are configurable, it would be hard to know who would fight back and who wouldn't. Setting X to 0 would disable the feature. I think probably the attacks would gain XP if successful, same as normal, but because you wouldn't be able to set the number of AP to use to more than your max AP value, it would be impossible to level up a character by simply leaving them alone (not to mention you would disappear from the map after being idle for a bit). --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 21:01, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
* i like the idea of counterattack , but with some limits. You have only a % of counterattacking someone (25%?) , you don't consume AP , you don't get XP. But , whit wich weapon do you attack?--[[User:JonesDye|JonesDye]] 10:05, 27 March 2006 (BST)
* The impetus behind auto-attack is to lessen the chance and impact of Badness happening to your character while you're away, but auto-attack isn't the proper solution to this. Shartak's appropriate skill would be jungle hiding, though a construction skill would work too, if we want to be more like that other game. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 13:51, 4 April 2006 (BST)
* What the animals are doing now is basically what I was saying should be an option for players. In fact, now that the animals counter-attack, it's become far more safe to attack a high-level soldier than it is to attack a parrot. All the more reason to implement this feature. It will also introduce more strategy into gameplay, such as how many AP to reserve for counter attacks, etc. It could be as simple as: enable auto-attack (toggle), if enabled, select weapon (pull-down menu), select AP to stop self-defense (pull-down?). If you select 0, you'd attack until exhausted or they left. If you select some non-zero, you'd attack until you were down to that amount. I kill a lot of other players, but I still say this would be very good for game mechanics, especially considering the new animal behavior. --[[User:Qberry|Qberry]] 06:00, 1 June 2006 (GMT)
** I would only agree with that one if it was only against animals. I don't think auto-defense was a good idea ''at all'', but now that it's in, I think that ours should only work against NPCs.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 20:11, 1 June 2006 (BST)
*** Unfortunately this could only exacerbate the Banshee Wailing Spam problems. An auto-defense option is worthless against spirits, and Banshee Wails could easily be the leading cause of damage and death in Shartak (during May 2006). Implement Exorcism before worrying about AP-costs and pull-down-menus for melee parry defense systems. --20:48, 1 June 2006 (BST)
**** Exactly. Actually, I've been thinking more on this. It's really a good thing that the animals are so dangerous now. The focus should be more on the struggle between natives and outsiders. Plus, it makes Animal Affinity that much better, which gives a good reason to play a villager or a settler.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 23:48, 1 June 2006 (BST)

----

===Flavor Text===

this section is where "users" add "flavor" to the game, im just suggesting that every few steps the computer say a message depending on location, here ill give a few examples:

*'''grasslands'''
**the grassy field sways under the wind's rush as you take a step.|
**something far off squaks and makes a strange throaty bellow.|

*'''water'''
**a wave crashes calmly in the distance|
**a spalsh can be heard from far off|

*'''jungle'''
**a parrot's call can be heard distantly|
**the bushes nearby are rustling from the small wildlife in them|

*'''village (outsider)'''
**the smell of gunpowder wafts into your lungs|
**the smoke comming from a nearby hut smells of fresh turkey|

*'''village (native)'''
**the shaman's voice can be heard traveling through the village|
**you step on the bones of what appears to be a rattlesnake|

*'''beach'''
**the hot sand burns your feet, yet feels wonderfully different|
**several sea shells catch your eye from far off|

please feel free to update these with more, as they are just a list (if simon decides to) that will be used for flavor.
i want to do this because the game gets kinda boring simply traversing through square after square

''Comments''
* One of the noticeable, distinct aspects of that other game are the different messages for each building; i really like this idea. A criticism, though - i'd refrain from mentioning living animals/people or useful items in the descriptions, they could be confusing to newbies. In other words, "a parrot's call can be heard distantly" isn't appropriate, and "the shaman's voice can be heard traveling through the village" might not be appropriate if the shaman is currently dead. The following could substitute: "You see a large ant colony busily rebuilding their hive" (an animal that has no game impact) and "The spirit of Shubar is felt all around you" (doesn't matter if Shubar is alive or dead). --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 14:05, 4 April 2006 (BST)
* I sort of feel like this is something that could easily be put together with a Greasemonkey script. It would be nice, but it isn't really necessary. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 05:35, 5 April 2006 (BST)
----

===slots/ new inventory===
slots and inventory could be implemented where, a picture of a silhouette was shown, with names of equiped items in slotted areas, ex: you skin a goat, find some sharp rocks and fashion yourself some claws, you then put them on, giving you +1 damage to all melee attacks
[[Suggestions:Items#animal wearings|animal wearings]]

"Comments below"

Making Claws? and not "all melee attacks" but only punch attacks --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 06:45, 29 March 2006 (BST)

I don't see why you need item slots for this. Having a pair of claws in the inventory would just improve punch damage by 1. That said, I don't like the idea of making oneself claws. Seems a little silly, when you have actual weapons around. Seems a little silly, either way, really. Perhaps that's just my sense of aesthetics, though, and not that of the majority of the players.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 06:37, 4 April 2006 (BST)
----

===Boat Construction===
Boats wouldn't be able to go into The very deep water people can't go into because the tides would rip them apart but could go move in all water for only 1 AP and it also prevents sharks from biting you. Multipule people could get into a boat based on how much wood is used, like
n*.001 x 1 = People Where n = The amount of wood used.

'''Edit'''

When Boats are being boarded each player may vote on who they decide should be the captain. The captian may move boat, call the boat any non vulgar name and anyone may jump off the boat at any time except the captain. Boats could only be built on a beach and automaticly once built move the person who constructed it into the nearest water square. Players may board the baot at any time by moving into the same square as it and selecting enter. When the captain moves the boat onto a land square the boat is destroyed and all people who boarded are thrown onto the beach. Players may change the captain at any time by changing there vote. Natives can not board Outsider boats and outsiders can not board native boats. What the boat looks like and is called depends on the size of it.

1 person: Raft

2 people: Large raft

3-4: Small boat

5-6: Boat

7-9: Large Boat

10-24: Huge Boat

25 and up: Gigantic Boat

--[[User:Slith|Slith]] 06:42, 29 March 2006 (BST)

''Comments''
*check out the skills section, i already suggested something like that.... anyway, check it out --[[User:Richard Rose|Richard Rose]]
*While the huts are handled in Richard's suggestion, I am interested in the boat aspect. I think that placing multiple players on a boat will be troublesome. Who decides where the boat goes - the server? the first player on the boat? It's also important to keep in mind that we already are offered a skill to help with moving in water - '''Swimming'''. If we are to introduce rafts, there should be some mechanics set in place to minimize their usefulness. Perhaps carrying a raft through non-water terrain doubles movement cost to discourage players from carrying one everywhere. Perhaps the raft only has a limited amount of moves in deep water before breaking up. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:44, 29 March 2006 (BST)
** Yeah I changed the suggestion based on your suggestion's :) --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 04:40, 30 March 2006 (BST)
*"Welcome to the Shartak ferry sevice. Please pay the captain your fee of 3 coins. We will be departing for the pirate ship in 3 hours. The captain has locked the destination coordinates and will not change directions unless the boat's integrity is threatend. We will arive in 50 AP + 10 AP per passenger + 5 per day due to drift. You are encouraged to help paddle the boat as this will help us arive sooner. If you decide to leave the boat at any time we will not refund you or allow you to reboard. Please do not pull out any corks or kick any boards as the boat is fragile and will sink if badly damaged."--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 05:06, 1 April 2006 (BST)
** Yeah ^^ That too --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 00:48, 3 April 2006 (BST)
* Boats sound cool. There are a lot of different ways to implement boats that aren't that complicated. Here's one example: suppose that a boat can hold 4 people. Anyone who wants to control the boat spends 4 AP to move the boat one square (larger boats move more slowly). Thus the boat could wander back and forth depending on who currently has the helm, but is unlikely to travel faster than a swimmer. Anyone (native or outsider) can dive overboard or climb onboard at any time, and the boat can be chopped up and destroyed by enough effort. ... The way I envision it, a boat never leaves the water -- the boat gets constructed on a beach square and then can only be moved onto water. It is never an inventory item. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 09:31, 2 June 2006 (BST)
**That's a good idea. I would go so far, though, as to say that it has to be constructed in shallow water.It would just make it easier. I would propose that the boat require four pieces of driftwood, plus two for every extra person. Thus a 1-man raft would be 4 pieces, a 2-man raft would be 6, a 3-man would be 8, and so on.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 18:26, 2 June 2006 (BST)
***Although there's no reason not to require, umm, a boatload of wood for construction, rather than just 2 + 2 per person. If the boat has any advantages at all over swimming, you could easily require huge quantities of wood without game imbalance. The original suggester had 1000 pieces per person, that's over the top, but why not 18 wood per person or something. That means N sailors could build an N-person boat in a single day searching at Shartak's Shipyard. Although construction might require another day of additional AP, and a hammer... --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 23:07, 2 June 2006 (BST)
::::I'd be in favor of boat construction, but it should be ''significantly'' harder and MUCH more time consuming to work, really only the most hardcore players should try it. Realistically, a person should need about 20 pieces of wood to displace their own body weight, so 20 wood per person is about right. It should take at least a week of devoted searching to come up with this amount for one person, and would require a fair amount of organization to build a large craft, but come on, its a BOAT! Virtually no attacks from anyone ever! Easy access to hard-to-reach islands! It should be extremely rare and time-consuming to do this IMO.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 05:18, 3 June 2006 (BST)

----

===Poisoning===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, status effect, balance|
suggest_scope=All classes, primarily Warriors|
suggest_description=Currently, the blowpipe can only carry 1 dart, yet weighs the same amount of inventory space as a rifle with 2 bullets. If you were to pit a fully leveled Soldier armed with loaded rifles against a fully leveled Warrior armed with loaded blowpipes, the battle is in favor of the Soldier who requires less time to reload while inbattle and dealing superior damage. (rifle's 5 to blowpipe's 4).

To address this, I would propose that poison darts actually cause poisoning. Poisoning would behave much like a shark bite - causing 1 HP damage per action performed until they are administered a FAK or medical herbs. A character can die if poison is left untreated. The attacker receives no additional XP for this kill or the damage dealt from poison. Poisoning would not stack, but it would be possible for a character to suffer from both poison and shark bites. The introduction of poison may require the dart's damage to be reduced to something substantially lower. Perhaps a default of 2 HP inflicted.

Up for discussion - does poisoning have a percent chance of occurring, an AP lifespan (only lasts 10 moves), and perhaps only works on non-npc characters?|
suggest_time=18:38, 6 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*Sounds great! I've heard that some of the toxicins used to poison darts can induce illutions. It would be interesting if poisoning increases AP usage for certain actions or even better imagined enemies (that Sixth Sence could pick out).--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 08:24, 7 April 2006 (BST)
* Have you seen the size of the some of the blowpipes that certain tribes carry? They're anything from 6 to 10 foot long! It's hardly surprising that they occupy the same inventory space as a rifle :) On the other hand, poisoning from darts sounds like a good idea.. I don't know that they should poison forever though, maybe for a limited number of AP, but perhaps have the effect be cumulative up to a certain point? Get shot 5 times and you lose 1 HP for every AP used for 5 x whatever the limit is. Does that make sense? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 21:16, 7 April 2006 (BST)
***Exactly - e.g., each poison dart that hits adds 2 AP to the poison duration, and while poisoned, you lose 1HP per AP used. The Poison Dart would eventually inflict 6 hp of damage, offsetting the extra damage and double barrel of the rifle. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 07:22, 12 April 2006 (BST)
**That might work, that way the Warrior has incentive to continue using the blowpipe multiple times on a target rather than just switch to their machete after the poison takes effect. Add to the character table a boolean flag (Poison = True) and give it a Poison Timer int. When the timer reaches 0, the Poison gets flipped to False. When the character dies or a FAK or Herb is applied, the Poison gets flipped to False and the timer gets set to 0. If the flag is True and they're poisoned again, stack the timer. I'm going to put forth this suggestion to the Forum. I don't have a lot of experience with using the blowpipe (I'm a machete guy) so they should weigh in on this. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:17, 7 April 2006 (BST)
* Or how about you can find [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_dart_frog#Toxicity frogs] and use them to put differnt posion effects on your darts? --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 04:57, 11 April 2006 (BST)
:*If we're adding poison dart frogs, I demand that they be lickable. It wouldn't be right, if you couldn't lick the poison dart frogs.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 20:14, 11 April 2006 (BST)
::* Ok... then some benifical frogs too! And people can't tell the diffrence between them unless they get some skill? --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 06:27, 17 April 2006 (BST)
*Bump! Awaiting a short lifespan (eg 4hp) additional poison effect for poison darts. And/or Native-only Poisoning skill so that Snake + Dart = uberdart that causes permanent poisoning (aka shark wound). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 20:51, 1 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===PvP Protection===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, pvp, nopvp, vs, player versus player|
suggest_scope=All Classes|
suggest_description=A full implementation of player versus player protection. This would be a nice feature for newbies allowing them time to adjust to the game without getting slaughtered. I envisage something allowing you to enable nopvp without the ability to disable for at least 100AP. Also when you hit a player who is flagged nopvp then you would get a message along the lines of "As your blade bounces off an invisible shield you suddenly notice a shamanic medicine pouch around the neck of target, they are protected, it would be pointless to continue to attack target." where target will be replaced by the players name.|
suggest_time=10:00, 13 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Iamtas|Iamtas]]|
suggest_comments=

* This is a good, well-thought suggestion. But while I don't generally like PKing, I think it is important to keep it available to those that do enjoy it. With XP penalties and easy resurrection, PKing not ruining the game from my perspective and it shouldn't be restricted further. I would not mind a method of informing players that view my character profile to see that I am flagged for pvp or not, but I am against preventing PVP without purchasing such an ability. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 21:16, 13 April 2006 (BST)
* New players already get an AP bonus and need less XP to level; I don't see the need for a newbie specific ability. I'd rather see a safe area over a moveable system - something like a sacred hut in native villages and a guard hut in outsider villages which anyone who hasn't attacked another player in 100 AP can enter and within which all PvP activity is prohibited, wastes AP, or perhaps results in HP loss only to the attacker ("Your attack has angered the mighty (spirits or guards) in the area; they smite you").--[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 04:12, 14 April 2006 (BST)
*Having both a PvP pirate and a pacifist shaman, and having been PKed on both... I don't like this idea. I like the 100AP newbie status. I don't like the "enabling" nopvp. Sorry. Death is a part of the game. If you walk into a tribe of hostile headhunters, they aren't going to just stand by and let you through--no matter how peaceful your business.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 04:27, 14 April 2006 (BST)
*I'm aware that new players get extra AP and newbie protection isn't what this is about. It is more useful for being protected from the players that sit in their home town bashing away at their own folk. Even with that said my main reason for nopvp was for another idea I have for a skill track that at the time of thinking about it I thought would require a nopvp implementation. I may post the skill track idea sometime when I have finished thinking about all the details.--[[User:Iamtas|Iamtas]] 12:07, 14 April 2006 (BST)
*How about you can't be attacked in your village/settlement by people that come from your village/settlement? --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 06:30, 17 April 2006 (BST)

}}

===New strategic location on island===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=New location, Game mechanics, |
suggest_scope=N/A|
suggest_description=I think the addition of one or more major new "strategic" locations on the island would greatly improve the game. What exactly it would be can be worked out, all it really ''has'' to be is very valuable to occupy and far away from any village or town (i.e. far away from any shaman). Both sides would rush to occupy this location and would fight each other for control of it.

This would have 3 major benefits for the game that I can see: 1) It would get the action away from towns/villages/shamans, 2) It would make death more meaningful and make killing an enemy meaningful (all death means in towns/villages now is having to float five spaces or so to the shaman and then you get a free revive. There are no easy/free revives out in the center of the island, you would lose both location and the 50 AP to contact, unless you decide to stick around and play as a spirit), 3) It would give people a goal in the game, a major location to fight over and defend, a location that isn't pointless to fight over, as towns/villages are because they cannot be taken. All in all it would have the benefit of making the game more fun.

As far as what the new location would be exactly, one idea could be gold mine(s). They would be valuable because standing on a gold mine square would give you 1 gold coin/hr and require no AP expenditure. The specifics of this are wide open and dont even much matter, as long as the location is far from settlements and very valuable to occupy so players will flock out there and fight for control, making for an exciting time and making killing enemies non-pointless.

If implemented, it should only be one new location at first, with maybe a couple more introduced later once things get going. The location should have a name, and it should be relayed to players in the form of Game News so that everyone knows of its existance and where it is in general terms, e.g. "A gold mine was discovered just south of the mountain, Natives and Outsiders are both rushing out there for control".

''Note: One of the raisons d'etre for this suggestion has been eliminated with the shaman changes, so this suggestion is less relevant than it was and in some ways outdated. It might still be workable, though it will have to be approached differently.'' [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:27, 4 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_time=21:02, 22 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Arminius|Arminius]]|
suggest_comments=

* I realise it was just an example, but 1 gold per hour without any AP requirement is probably a bit much. Definitely something to expand on though. I like it. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 21:46, 22 April 2006 (BST)
** For example, award 1 gold coin to any one player at random who is on the mine for at least the full hour. Or only award 1 gold coin at random to any one player if only one side occupies the mine -- if both outsiders and nativers are present, they are fighting for control and no one is mining. Generally speaking, 24 gold coins per <s>hour</s>day fed into the entire game will not mess up the economy -- that's probably less than 75-150 AP of searching (and a trip to the trading hut). Alternatively, allow players to search the area with a <s>15%</s> 40% find rate for one gold coin, as long as none of the opposing faction are present in the square. Drawbacks: (1) This sort of high-impact location could also increase zerging/cheating, which wouldn't be fun for anyone. (2) A gold mine could rapidly devalue gold coins until they're effectively worthless, ending the "value" of the mine. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 02:22, 23 April 2006 (BST)
***Giving out small numbers of coins to only a certain percentage of the people on the mine square seems too low a reward, while the original 1 gold coin per hour is definitely too high. But unless people get something tangible every hour that they stand there, people may not bother to fight for control of the mine, which is the whole point. Here is an idea: Make a new item called "gold nugget". Every hour that you are standing on the gold mine square and your faction controls it, you get one gold nugget. Then create a hut 1 square adjacent to the mine and inside have an NPC called "gold prospector Jim" (for example), who will "cash in" your nuggets, 10 nuggets (or 5, or whatever is deemed the best number) for one coin. Gold nuggets on their own would have no value. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 14:57, 29 April 2006 (BST)
****You could achieve the same effect without creating a prospector hut just by giving a straight 10% (or 20%) chance of 1 gold coin each hour. (To me a single "prospector Jim" gets a bit sketchy if a thousand people are rushing the mine...). In my opinion, you get better scalability and realism if the gold-per-person decreases as people increase. If there are a thousand people on the mine, then each person gets only 5% chance per hour (=50gc/hour production). If there are 10 people on the mine, then each one gets a 100% chance per hour (=10gc/hour production). Gold can't be earned from the mine when competing factions are on the location, creating a contested site is the purpose of implementing this suggestion. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 09:41, 2 June 2006 (BST)
::::If there is a 10% chance to get one gold coin per hour, and if during a large portion of the day both natives and outsiders are on the gold mine square so no mining is going on, then the odds would be that the lots of people would get 0 gold coins (or very few) before being killed, a total waste of time for them, and they might not bother going back after they're killed, which defeats the gold mine's purpose as a strategic location that people will fight over. This is why I say people need something tangible every hour. In fact, that should be revised to "something tangible every AP turnover", i.e. every 20 minutes. Even if someone is there for only a short time, they should have something to show for it, which they almost certainly wouldnt with a low % chance per hour of getting one gold coin. Your idea of scaling the gold that the mine produces could be implemented by making Gold Prospector Jim give fewer gold coins the more nuggets he receives. In other words, a gold mining version of the current trading system. Since he will have received 0 gold nuggets as the mine is first discovered, one gold nugget could trade for one gold coin, and as more people start cashing in, the value of a gold nuggest would go down, to where he wants 20 or so nuggets for one gold coin. The value would fluctuate throughout the day and week as people cash in more gold nuggets. This way, scalability is achieved while continuing to be able to reward something tangible every AP turnover. Also, I would say gold nuggets should take 0 inventory space just like gold coins, since in theory 72 could be given out per day to one person, and that would fill up anyone's inventory, allowing them to not receive any more. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:27, 4 June 2006 (BST)

* An alternative to the gold mine would be some kind of ancient treasure hoard, so not just gold coins but also statues, ancient armour and maybe some pretty nasty weapons. However, to get the good stuff you'd have to go into the trap-filled maze and actually make it into the chamber where the treasure is. With spirit-proof doors so people don't just die, go in, find the correct route, revive and go in...[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 17:33, 24 April 2006 (BST)
**This is interesting but seems overly complicated, and seems like more of a one-shot kind of thing, but most significantly there is no real value in holding such a location. A gold mine would be a simple, straightforward, and constantly of high value to occupy. Also, once one person finds the way through the maze, soon everyone would know. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 14:57, 29 April 2006 (BST)
***Good point... Ignore my suggestion, it's not very good... [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 12:27, 2 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Life cycle===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=balance change|
suggest_scope=NPC animals|
suggest_description=Currently the main way of leveling up is by killing things (i.e. NPCs & characters) I suggest there be some sort of life cycle for animals. For example, when there are massive amounts of tigers being killed less spawn. But if everybody leaves tigers alone, more spawn. If would look something like this:
:0-5% of animal type killed, x5 spawn rate
:6-15% of animal type killed, x2 spawn rate
:16-45% of animal type killed x1 spawn rate
:46-75% of animal type killed x0.5 spawn rate
:76-99% of animal type killed x0.1 spawn rate
:100% of animal type killed, animal is extinct
 This forces people to find alternative ways to gain Xp (possibly more lucrative ones?)|
suggest_time=03:22, 29 May 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

I have the funny feeling that animals would start going extinct, which would just be a pain. I'd rather not see this one implemented.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 15:50, 29 May 2006 (BST)
: Would work if there was a total animal population that was always kept, so if tigers start to become extinct more deer appear, but this would lead to an island of only elephants. Would also work if the animals that were extinct reemerged later on, then it would just be annoying. But the goal of "find alt ways to gain Xp" won't be realised via this manner - it would instead lead to more player vs player action. Instead of taking away our current methods, perhaps other methods of xp gaining could be added, like the agriculture skill, or some current activities could have an xp bonus (we get xp for uncovering trees, why not for finding fruits? Could trading become xp-worthy?).--[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 16:47, 29 May 2006 (BST)
:: I don't know why we should force people to find the lucrative alternative ways to gain XP. Animals are extremely rare in some areas of Shartak, and PKing and PvP is common. Banshee wailing spam, punch-heal farming, and gratuitous healer orgies are annoying enough already. Basically, the non-healing/non-harming XP paths need to be more viable: XP for exploring, chopping, discovery, contacting foreign villages, and so on. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 10:01, 2 June 2006 (BST)


}}

===Moving through fully chopped down or overgrown jungle===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Movement change|
suggest_scope=Every character in the game|
suggest_description=I sugget a change in the movement mechanics. It may not be approved by you, but I think it's logical. I wouls like to see a change that allows to reduce movement on fully chopped (d0) squares of jungle (I think that a reduction to 0,5 AP/move <s>(0,25 AP/move with Trekking skill)</s>, and an increase on (I think) squares ranging from d7 to d9 to 2 AP/move (1 AP/move with Trekking). D10 squares stay impossible to pass, until chopped. The logic says that when you have nothing under your feet except for ground you move faster, and in dense growth areas you walk slower. Such a change as I proposed may also need an adjustment in the jungle growth speed.|
suggest_time=22:15, 1 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Xintlaer|Xintlaer]]|
suggest_comments=

*I like this, except the part about the trekking skill giving the ability to move 4 d(0) squares in one AP, that should definitely not be done. Maybe this: trekking should only apply to d(1) and up (the skill description says "faster movement through the jungle" anyway), and on d(0), all characters, whether trekking or not, should expend 0.5 AP to move onto another d(0) square. (note that if both of those changes are made it would not harm trekking-people, their AP-usage would be same as it is now.) One benefit of lowering movement cost on d(0) squares as far as game dynamics is concerned, is that it would make roads, the upkeep of roads, and the upkeep of towns (keeping towns free of jungle overgrowth), actually meaningful in a practical sense, by allowing for quicker travel. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 22:41, 1 June 2006 (BST)
** Exactly what I was going to say, Arminius. Trekking on a road would be absolutely incredible... so we just don't give trekkers any added bonus there.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 23:52, 1 June 2006 (BST)
***Understood, agreed, changing--[[User:Xintlaer|Xintlaer]] 09:13, 2 June 2006 (BST)
*0.5 AP per square on roads (still 0.5 AP with Trekking). 2 AP per square on heavy jungle (1 AP with Trekking). Creates tangible effect for the Highway Society - Preservation Front conflicts. An absolutely brilliant suggestion. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 10:06, 2 June 2006 (BST)
* Nice idea. Tap tap tap.. try that.. I think it should be pretty much what you've said. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 19:40, 2 June 2006 (BST)

}}

Suggestions:Game mechanics

2006-06-03T23:27:07Z

Arminius: /* New strategic location on island */

{{:Suggestions/Header|page_type=Game Mechanics}}

== Game Mechanics ==

=== Conversion ===
When an Outsider/Native dies they are reborn as a Native (don't really understand the spirit thing too well). The Outsiders then get a new class/skill, "Religious Conversion" that requires a "Holy Scripture". This allows a "Priest" to convert one native into a Outsider". The converted native would most likely start off as a Settler. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* I believe that Natives are reborn as Natives and Outsiders are reborn as Outsiders, but I could be wrong. From a game balance perspective, I am not in favor of type-swapping skills unless Natives are presented with an ability to counter or convert Outsiders as well. It does fit nicely with the theme though. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:41, 16 February 2006 (GMT)

* That would probably be the shamans job, however it may have worked for Urban Dead but I don't think it will work in this game as whichever group has the most players to begin with will, once conflicts begin to arise, dominate by switching people from the side they are on the side the priest/"whatever the natives use" side making you able to graph one groups population by looking at the graph pop=(1/2)^x. Also since there wouldn't seem to be a way, short of finding a converter player to switch you back, to go back to playing as you once did would make the amount of people on one side quickly die off (even though thats what would happen in real life, favouring the outsiders) it would be a very unfun aspect of the game. And really these are HOSTILE natives, or so it seems, why would they let some devilman outsider tell it how it is? They wouldn't, they would simply spear them and laugh! In short all the converting ideas suck, I know I wouldn't want to log on to find I'm playing for the wrong side. -- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 10:55, 17 February 2006 (GMT)

* So that means if my soldier dies, he's reborn as a native? Not only that, but to become an outsider again, first I would have to find a priest (which would be next to impossible with such a small number of players), and then he could convert me into a settler. That means I'll never be able to be a soldier again, which is a real punch in the throat for RPers. -- Grigoriy

*All valid points. I guess this wouldn't really work we have the same number of players as Urban Dead. But this would be a great way to balance out the sides later on. Say there are too many natives, you just drop more "conversion items" and balance out the sides. Too many Outsiders? Just drop the number of conversion items. Doubt it would catch on though. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 02:44, 19 February 2006 (GMT)

*Conversion doesn't have to be forced. It could require action on both sides, like a native doning a religious item and an outsider using the skill on that native. After all, conversion isn't real without true faith. The native counter to this could be similar, requiring an outsider to die holding a packet of that headshrinking powder while a shaman uses the Zombification (ala Haitian witchcraft) skill. -- frisco

*You don't change class or anything when you die. --[[User:Murk|Murk]] 12:31, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

*I gave a response t othis idea under "Holy Scriptures," I think, offering another idea for it that may piss a lot less people off. *points over there*--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:15, 29 March 2006 (BST)
----

=== Capturing villages ===
Since this is like some war between Outsiders and Natives I thought this appropriate. If all the (say) Outsiders are killed in York and there are none left, then it becomes a Native village and vice versa. Probably needs harder requirements to capture settlements though. Maybe each side could have one permanent place that can never change hands? --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:41, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
:Not sure about this - what about all the idle players within the village? They might "wake up" after a couple of weeks to find they're in enemy territory. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:00, 1 March 2006 (GMT)

:You could have it so idle players goto the nearest friendly village-- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 02:58, 3 March 2006 (GMT)

:Turf control in a limited AP browser game like this just invites lame zerging behavior. I don't like it. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:00, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

:Not villages, perhaps 3x3 square 'forts'? --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 01:10, 4 March 2006 (GMT)

:I do like the idea, but I think Jackel's observation hits a key point. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

:Agreed with Jackel and Lint and Simon. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 13:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT) Additionally:
::* Please don't impose your assumption that Shartak is at heart a "war between Outsiders and Natives" on the rest of us. That is not the only possible direction in which this game can go. For example, an Outsider village might turn out to be populated by a trading company that views the other Outsider villages as competitors whose extermination would be good for business, but it could just as easily develop into a peaceful scientific outpost, a pirate haven of drunken debauchery, or a missionary settlement devoted to finding the Natives and learning their language (gotta spread that old time religion). I believe it would be better to keep the objectives more freeform, and let the players create the course of history. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 13:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
::* On a hopefully more helpful and positive note, one could simulate/approximate capturing a village by amassing an army of suitable size, carving messages of ownership all over the territory of the village in question, killing all members of the village, and repeatedly killing the village shaman so they can't get back as easily. (Ouch. I hope no armchair megalomaniacs out there have been taking notes.) --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 13:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
----

=== Unique skills ===
I think that each class should start off with one unique skill that the others may never aquire. That way it stops all the classes from becoming too generic. For example Settlers could have a "farming" skill, Soldiers could have a "bravery" skill, etc. Or mabey they could just have a attribute like Soldiers have an extra 10% chance of striking the target, Warriors have an extra 10% chance of finding animals, Settlers have an extra 10% chance of finding an item, Scouts have a 3% chance of recovering 1 HP per AP spent, etc. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 02:34, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
:I am in favor of this (if it is not in effect currently). We'd have to work out the details to make sure each class is getting their fair share, but something that encourages players to try other classes or team up with other players using different classes for a better playing experience sounds good to me. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
:I am in favor of each class being able to acquire (but not necessarily starting off with) a unique skill or attribute that the others may never acquire. Sounds to me like the kind of thing that would be unlocked as one's reward for a rite of passage, rather than granted as a right of birth. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 12:53, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
:Perhaps a Research skill of some kind for the Scientist, maybe allowing them an advantage when doing things with dead animals (would need something to do with dead animals, obviously!).[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 16:09, 16 March 2006 (GMT)
:Pirates should have a skill to steal their fallen enemies' gold coins. Arr. Would probably result in a lot of outsider in-fighting, though, and outsiders are currently outnumbered.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:18, 29 March 2006 (BST)
:I agree with this as well. It seems Shartak is on the way to giving each class their own benefits (Soldiers/Warriors with gun skills, Settlers/Villagers with animal affinity etc.), but so far only a few have been made unique. At present there is really no point to being a scientist. He starts with 10 gold coins... what the? So I'm pushing for each class to have at least one unique skill they can purchase with XP. --[[User:Rip Purr|Rip Purr]] 11:50, 3 June 2006 (BST)
----

=== Pet System ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics|
suggest_scope=All classes|
suggest_description=I will combine aspects of the '''Animal''' and '''Pirate''' suggestions and propose a pet system that allows you to tame one of the animals on the island. First, you have to weaken the animal. Then you throw a sphere device at it and shout "SHARTAK SPHERE! GO!" for 1 AP. There's a slight chance that you have captured and tamed the animal. The more powerful the animal, the less success chance. You earn no XP for taming an animal. Players can only have 1 pet at a time. They can release a pet whenever they want. If the owner dies, the pet runs away. Pets have fixed HP, attack, and accuracy based on the type of animal they are (ie. they do not level up or heal, just to keep it simple to design). They follow the player around and only attack when the player attacks. It would be nice if they attacked while you were not playing, but auto-defense mechanisms are unnecessary. Enemy animals randomly determine whether they are attacking the owner or the pet. Other players will have an option for targeting the owner or pet. There is no XP gained for attacking or killing a pet to deter any attempts at farming pet killing (I can't believe we even have to consider preventing such a thing). For added flavor, owners can name their pets.|
suggest_time=08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*ROTFL. Sounds a bit like Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh (don't worry, I'm not a fan, I have kids that were!). Perhaps instead of spheres, you could keep the monkeys on a leash, heal a tiger or elephant to make it less likely to attack you, tame deer by feeding them, etc. Some animals like the wild boar would have to be pretty difficult to tame. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:14, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
*I was with you right up until you got to the "sphere device" bit, and I rejoined you afterwards. ;) The rest of your suggestion otherwise seems to be pretty well thought out. Personally, I'd prefer to attempt to tame the animal into becoming a pet purely by offering it food, rather than "weakening" it by other means. Especially since food is scarce enough that offering it to an animal would be a real sacrifice and therefore an interesting decision for the player to make. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:49, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
*I will confess that I had a lot of fun with the references. The problem I have with using an existing item to tame a pet is how to implement it. The player can't click on the fruit, because that will just heal themselves. And I think it is unecessary to redesign fruits like First Aid Kits and Medical Herbs, just so they can feed it to an animal. And a database check to see if the player possesses a fruit before providing a "tame" command seems awkward. Perhaps there is just one item called "animal bait" (from the Trade Hut most likely). It works much like a FAK or Herb, but can only be applied to animals (though there will be a "Yourself" option by default for those players that decide they enjoy the taste). Animals will then have a value called "tame count" in the database. For each successful feeding, this number is incremented. When a specific number is reached, the monster is successfully tamed. If a monster is killed, the number is reset to 0. Acquiring a pet should not reduce the population of animals on the island (ie. one should respawn to take its place). Furthermore, those with '''Animal Affinity''' should have a better taming success rate. (This is another attempt to give Villagers and Settlers a little boost.) --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 17:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
*This idea, while somewhat interesting, is not very realitic. The animals of the island are wild. In reality, tigers, elephants, deer, "WILD boars" etc can only be made LESS WILD by extensive and careful training and handling when they are young, not be tamable by any means, certainly not enough to follow a person around and fight on their behalf. Maybe it would be possible with parrots and monkeys, but if Simon is going to implement changes, I'd rather see some of the more believable ones first. I do agree with Lint that it would give more value to '''Animal Affinity'''. Animal attacks, even from a tiger or elephant (which would realistically be very dangerous) are hardly to be feared, making this skill currently seem pretty useless.

* ''The following is a Pet suggestion made by [[User:Richard Rose|Richard Rose]] on 21:47, 24 March 2006:''

as the name reades, simply have "pets" as a survivor living in the jungle, my first instinct would be to find support, in this case we could add a "tame animal" button, which would be clicked to tame an animal, the starting catching % would be something like 10% and could be improved the more the animal is damaged, like at 1hp, if full health was 10hp then you'd have 55% of catching it, (i added 5% for every 10% missing from the creature's health)
this could also be improved with new skills such as

+Amateur Catching Skills (adds 10%)
+Catching Skills (adds 15%, doesnt stack)
+Taming Skills (adds 30%)

+Net (adds 10%, does stack)

certain animals could be ridden, other would do funny things or find objects for you, ex:
Mr. Bobo the monkey finds a bottle of rum in your pocket "gee i didnt know i had that"

elephants, large stags, and tigers could be ridden, small stags would haveto grow up before being ridden, after like, 10 days, or 20 kills they would mature, its all just theory...

parrots could become like flares, ex: Mr. TweetTweet flies towards you and drops a message "help, im at X, Y and there's a native village!"

the parrot could also say messages randomly, players (upon catching a parrot) would be given 10 slots and would type things into them, the parrots would randomly say one, ex:
you attack elephant, Mr. TweetTweet says "polly want a cracker"

animals could also act like extra space, like a backpack, if you will.
animals are named upon capture.

}}

=== Profile Effect Items ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics|
suggest_scope=Inventory and profiles|
suggest_description=These are useless baubles that take up 1 unit of a player's inventory space, but if anyone views their profile they will see that the players possesses the item. Using the item won't accomplish anything and merely produce flavor text. However, if a player is in the presence of another player, using the item would show it off. As with all items, there's no way to trade them with other players. We can have eyepatches and peglegs. We can have tribal masks and warpaint. Maybe some clans would require a certain dress code. Maybe they need 30 pieces of flair. I think it provides an outlet for the less serious gamers. Problems: Serious gamers might be plagued with finding such items and dropping them, wasting (in their opinion) AP and Page Hits. Also, arguing over what items fit with the theme of Shartak will be a headache-inducing process.|
suggest_time=08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

* I like this suggestion. How about finding the pieces of the masks and making your own - combine the baubles with mini-quests? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:18, 8 March 2006 (GMT)
:For example, to make the sacred warrior mask of Raktam, you must find 5 parrot feathers, a tiger tooth, some berries and a piece of driftwood that can be carved into the appropriate shape with a knife or dagger. Once you have all those items, you get a "create mask" option which then removes the required items and the mask appears in your inventory (and profile).
::Having the database check to see if they have all the ingredients seems a bit unwieldly. After every action or inventory use it might have to run the check to verify that they are alive, still have the items, etc. I'd just settle for having them take the items to a specific NPC. But yes, a mixing quest would be fun. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 18:02, 8 March 2006 (GMT)

* I just hope that this idea motivates players to try new things ("I'm going to join a clan that wears such-and-such a mask and attack the others! Yarr!") and not feel that the game is just about collecting items ("Well, I got all the masks. I guess I'm done with the game."). --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 18:02, 8 March 2006 (GMT)

*Maybe the different masks have different effects, from some simple ones (attracting/scaring animals, making them less likely to attack or easier to hit) to the downright blatavt video game reference that turns you into a huge brown rocky guy who can punch boulders apart. OK, maybe not the second one. [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 20:53, 9 March 2006 (GMT)
:I think that's something to be worked on in a separate suggestion. The point of this suggestion is to make useless "fancy hats" that neither add or take away from the established gameplay. However, in the eyes of certain players, they may be invaluable because of how they can incorperate such items into their goals and roleplaying. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:52, 9 March 2006 (GMT)
::Bumping this good suggestion. Let's have some cowrie shells! (And The_Conch(tm), see next suggestion.) The barren ruins and huts seem so sad and pathetic right now, they need some wacky useless trinkets to tide us over... Maybe we need shovels to dig for treasure, too. Yarr! --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 06:06, 10 May 2006 (BST)

}}

=== Conch Shell Hunt ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, minigame|
suggest_scope=Event|
suggest_description=''Capture the Flag''-ish minigame. Somewhere on the island is a single conch shell item. It can be found by searching anywhere. It takes 1 inventory space and appears when anyone views their profile. When the conch holder is in the presence of other players, flavor text is added to the area description to inform the others that the conch holder is in the area. If the person in possession of the conch drops it, dies, or is idle for more than 5 days, the conch returns to the system. The person who holds the conch the longest gets recognized in the statistics. Killing the conch holder earns special bonus XP. Adept conch holder killers may also be recognized in the statistics. Problems: Someone with multiple characters could take advantage of having the conch on one character and reap the XP and fame with another. There will be a point where a race condition will occur and might result in multiple conches and a broken game.|
suggest_time=08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

* This kind of thing has been on my ideas list, although this is much more detailed version than the one-liner I had. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:05, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
*''I'' have the conch! I'm allowed to speak! *ahem* I mean, um... >.>--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:21, 29 March 2006 (BST)
** Suggestions: (1) Skip bonus for the conch-killer and you remove incentive to zerg. (2) Have the conch break when the conch-bearer dies (respawns on a random beach) and you remove the race condition. (3) Give the conch-bearer an action to blow into the Conch. (You hear the booming echo of a conch being sounded to the south-east.) Maybe 50% chance of 1xp each time you blow the conch, just to give you incentive to attract attention to yourself. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 02:31, 23 April 2006 (BST)


}}

=== Know your foes ===
As a native, I get killed a lot by outsiders, but I just can't strike back when I come back to life, as nothing allows me to identify my agressors amongst the outsiders I meet. I expected some basic language skill to give me access to clickable outsiders profiles, but it doesn't. So. I don't like much the fact that, in this game, the only alternative you have is "attack random outsiders" or "attack none". I'd like to be able to protect myself without being too unfair to peaceful outsiders (and being part of some snowball effect).

This would be partly solved by some profile access (allowing to check people's amount of human kills), or some limited displayed info on the present players (it would make -almost- sense for natives to automatically carry visible scalps or shrunken head of their victims, but I'm not sure how to justify the kills display in the case of outsiders, despite of the fact white men were actually quite fond of indian scalps at some time). Another useful tool would be some urban-dead-like contact list.

Of course, ideally (but absurdly) the most useful stat to be able to see would be the number of kills of people without human kills at the moment of their death, but... -- Leaf

''Comments''
Perhaps seeing the profile of someone on the opposite side if you or they have the advanced language skill would be good, it would be cool to hang around with some natives without worrying about aggressors. --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 21:30, 18 March 2006 (GMT)

If you had a contact list and some way to target individuals on your list ala Urban Dead, I'm guessing that would probably help. Not so sure about the scalp display approach. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 23:36, 18 March 2006 (GMT)

A contact list would be quite useful in Shartak. But also being able to read profiles, maybe through an "observe" button and scroll-down menu. For the moment, people just hit each other once, hoping to miss, in order to get a link to the other guy's profile. There must be a more rationnal way to quench this curiosity. -- Gone 13:36, 10 May 2006 (GMT+1)
----

=== Forest Fire ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, natural disasters|
suggest_scope=Terrain|
suggest_description=This is a potential temporary minigame that will either lead to players to band together and save the island or perhaps just lead to all-out chaos. A fire script is created which designates one block as fire (it is identified by a little fire.gif in the background). Every 20 minutes the fire script will check if there is <del>Grassland or</del> Jungle nearby with density from 1-10. If there is, it spreads to the next block. It will not spread to any other terrain (including villages and ruins). Thus, the best way to prevent the spread of the fire is by chopping vegetation down to 0. The initial fires will be placed randomly around the island. Actions performed in a fire occupied space deal 2 damage. For this event to be more devious, there should be a means to quickly restore vegetation (dropping driftwood, planting fruit, watering with gourds).|
suggest_time=03:58, 17 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*I like some things about this suggestion, I think it could work really nicely if there was also a rain algorithingamajig, so that maybe, if some part of the island dried out, wildfires could break out, or if it rained too much villages could flood and get swamped. Its a neat idea. -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 04:55, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
* I like the idea of rain and fire, however there's no telling if the server would handle the database access/calculations required when the number of players gets into the range that Urban Dead has. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:17, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
** I thought it might be a bit much. Ah well. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 19:32, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
** Not the idea of fire itself, that may well be quite feasible. I meant having rain causing flooding, or not enough rain leading to fires might be a bit awkward.. unless I can think of some way to reduce the work that needs to be done regularly. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 23:38, 18 March 2006 (GMT)
* Maybe fires could also destroy huts, and then there could be a skill to rebuild them. Maybe even give people the ability to start their own fires. It might make for interesting tribal wars. -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 18:22, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
** Imagine what would happen if an ammo hut caught on fire!--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 04:32, 1 April 2006 (BST)
** I kind of wanted to restrict fires to the Jungle (removed my Grasslands comment from the original suggestion) since a lot of Huts provide resources for starting players and players that have just been revived. I think it would be unfair to prevent them with the opportunity to gather supplies. As a tactic, it may also be unfair. Native villages appear to be completely surrounded by burnable Jungle, while Outsider villages are bordered by the Beach. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 19:46, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
** Good point. The pirates would be completely free of burning too. I still think a way to temporarily damage structures could be fun -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 19:59, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
** As a general rule, real world jungles don't burn terribly well, although there are a few notable exceptions (such as the Indonesian forest fires in 1997-98). Grasslands, however, burn quite regularly, and in fact such fires are necessary for the good health of the grass. Fire kills off sapling trees in the area which would otherwise grow to the point that they overshadowed and killed the grass. I don't know whether the game has any grasslands large enough to make this kind of thing interesting, though. --[[User:Jackdaw|Jackdaw]] 15:55, 25 March 2006 (GMT)

}}

=== The Ghost Elephant ===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, miniboss|
suggest_scope=Event|
suggest_description=Somewhere on the island is an animal that exists purely as a temporary event. The Legendary Ghost Elephant - in reality, an aggressive albino pachyderm of incredible size - is said to roam the island of Shartak. Some Natives revere it, others desire to be recorded as the one who slayed it. Some Outsiders wish to study it, others desire to have it as a trophy. It behaves much like any other elephant on Shartak. However, it has a different label, an unfathomable amount of HP, and deals horrific damage. If you heal the Ghost Elephant with a FAK or Herbs, you receive double XP. And to further serve a challenge, don't place an HP cap on the Ghost Elephant, just give it a starting amount. If possible, a log of all actions performed on the Ghost Elephant should be kept by the server and revealed in the event that it dies.|
suggest_time=03:58, 17 March 2006 (GMT)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*Ha! I like this one, Lint, and simple to implement. It should really have a boatload of HP, as I think few will consider expending valuable healing items on it, when its far easier (and more rewarding) to hack away at it for 40 AP then make a run for it! --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 16:42, 17 March 2006 (GMT)

*Arr! I would ride that ghost beast like a horse jus' fer fun, then slay 't t' sell its tusks t' them outsiders an' th' meat t' them natives. --[[User:El Pirata Cofresi|El Pirata Cofresi]] 17:46, 17 March 2006 (GMT)

*In the Congo they refer to it as Mokele Mbembe - he who stops the flow of rivers - and it is rumoured to be a lost dinosaur. The island could do with some cryptozoology. Would this creature be able to disappear or hide or move incredibly fast? If not, then once one person finds it, they can just call everyone over to the same square. This kind of defeats the mythical aspect as well as adding potential server problems. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 18:24, 17 March 2006 (GMT)

*I should make the animals attack back in near-realtime first (as in you attack them and they may or may not get an attack in).. just to add a bit of interest to it and stop people running up to the creature and hacking and then running away. Making an animal with an almost unlimited number of HP would be possible.. I guess probably start it with at least double a normal elephant and max of about a thousand HP to prevent people healing it to the point where it'd be impossible to kill. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 18:37, 17 March 2006 (GMT)

*It could be cool, especially if it moved around in a way that made tracking it possible, maybe by destroying the foliage, or moving in a pattern. Also having it move might help keep people from all winding up in one square beating it up. -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 18:41, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
**I've tried to offset the game's focus on combat by encouraging healing (double XP may be too much of a reward, so I'm willing to remove that), but that alone will most likely be not enough to counter the horde of blood-thirsty savages! Healing with the Herbs and FAKs may actually be seen as healing the Ghost Elephant spiritually rather than merely physically, which is why it's health can grow high. I don't see a problem if it became near-unkillable. I like keeping some myths and legends around. I thought that it would be best if it traveled like an elephant, but it is true that it limits the people that are able to participate in the event. Perhaps it should "teleport", after a certain amount of time in an area - "A wall of fog sweeps in through jungle. When it fades, you see that the Ghost Elephant has vanished as well." I requested for a log of actions to determine who killed it, who attacked it the most, who healed it the most, and who got hurt the most. Also, rather than a recurring animal, I thought it would be best to release it as an event that occurs every now and then. Or maybe only once! --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 19:32, 17 March 2006 (GMT)
***Hmm, when the elephant reappears, it should give a loud trumpet which can be heard over a certain radius to increase the chance of players coming across it. Unless of course players would prefer that it were more stealthy. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:25, 4 April 2006 (BST)

*I like it. And of course, you needn't stick to land animals; a mysterious sea creature that patrols the island waters and is reported to be 30ft long could prompt more people to vernture into the waters for a glimpse/trophy etc. Sharks will also be a problem for those searching! --[[User:Malphas|Malphas]] 15:52, 19 March 2006 (GMT)

*I ''love'' this idea.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 07:08, 28 March 2006 (BST)

*Great idea!--[[User:Paradox244|Paradox244]] 21:04, 24 May 2006 (BST)

}}

=== Auto Attack ===
I've never liked the fact that while I am away from the game, things can happen to my character, like being chewed on by a tiger or slashed with a machette. How about a setting where you can turn your character on to auto attack anything that hits you. It should, of course, be user selected. This would change the game mechanics a bit, as you could no longer move in on a target and attack it withough fear of a counter-strike. To me this is far more realistic, in that even if you are sleeping, when somebody hits you, you're going to wake up and do something about it with whatever engery you have left.

An alternative selectable action might be an auto-run. You can pre-specify the direction you want to run and how many squares upon being hit. A character with trekking could stay alive just by running a few square whenever they are hit.
--[[User:Qberry|Qberry]] 02:34, 20 March 2006 (GMT)

''Comments''
* The main problem with this is that players will be discouraged from attacking other players, as this will become extremely dangerous, and the native warrior who wants the outsiderts out will effectively be penalised.[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 15:47, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
* Sorry, but I don't like this. I feel that that this will lead to interactions with players that are no different than interacting with an NPC. Could someone theoretically max themselves out by just leaving this option on and checking in every now and then to make sure they haven't become a spirit? --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 17:28, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
* Yeah, I'm not a fan of being able to do something by not doing something, such as fighting or running without being there to fight or run. Also, would it be free of AP and IP hits, or would it be possible to come back and have no AP or hits left? It seems like these problems would wreck any sort of auto action. I can understand not enjoying being macheted while away, but I don't see any way around this. -[[User:BananaBear|BananaBear]] 18:20, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
* I must admit that I don't like the idea all that much, but if it was implemented it would probably be something that was user configurable. I don't think running away would make sense, but fighting back does. For example, no more than X AP to be used fighting back until you next log back in, and they wouldn't be used unless you had more than Y AP left. This way you could set X to 10 and Y to 6 and if you ran out of AP, set those values, it would be 2 hours (6 x 20m) before you were likely to attack, and it would use no more than 10 AP fighting back. Because the values are configurable, it would be hard to know who would fight back and who wouldn't. Setting X to 0 would disable the feature. I think probably the attacks would gain XP if successful, same as normal, but because you wouldn't be able to set the number of AP to use to more than your max AP value, it would be impossible to level up a character by simply leaving them alone (not to mention you would disappear from the map after being idle for a bit). --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 21:01, 20 March 2006 (GMT)
* i like the idea of counterattack , but with some limits. You have only a % of counterattacking someone (25%?) , you don't consume AP , you don't get XP. But , whit wich weapon do you attack?--[[User:JonesDye|JonesDye]] 10:05, 27 March 2006 (BST)
* The impetus behind auto-attack is to lessen the chance and impact of Badness happening to your character while you're away, but auto-attack isn't the proper solution to this. Shartak's appropriate skill would be jungle hiding, though a construction skill would work too, if we want to be more like that other game. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 13:51, 4 April 2006 (BST)
* What the animals are doing now is basically what I was saying should be an option for players. In fact, now that the animals counter-attack, it's become far more safe to attack a high-level soldier than it is to attack a parrot. All the more reason to implement this feature. It will also introduce more strategy into gameplay, such as how many AP to reserve for counter attacks, etc. It could be as simple as: enable auto-attack (toggle), if enabled, select weapon (pull-down menu), select AP to stop self-defense (pull-down?). If you select 0, you'd attack until exhausted or they left. If you select some non-zero, you'd attack until you were down to that amount. I kill a lot of other players, but I still say this would be very good for game mechanics, especially considering the new animal behavior. --[[User:Qberry|Qberry]] 06:00, 1 June 2006 (GMT)
** I would only agree with that one if it was only against animals. I don't think auto-defense was a good idea ''at all'', but now that it's in, I think that ours should only work against NPCs.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 20:11, 1 June 2006 (BST)
*** Unfortunately this could only exacerbate the Banshee Wailing Spam problems. An auto-defense option is worthless against spirits, and Banshee Wails could easily be the leading cause of damage and death in Shartak (during May 2006). Implement Exorcism before worrying about AP-costs and pull-down-menus for melee parry defense systems. --20:48, 1 June 2006 (BST)
**** Exactly. Actually, I've been thinking more on this. It's really a good thing that the animals are so dangerous now. The focus should be more on the struggle between natives and outsiders. Plus, it makes Animal Affinity that much better, which gives a good reason to play a villager or a settler.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 23:48, 1 June 2006 (BST)

----

===Flavor Text===

this section is where "users" add "flavor" to the game, im just suggesting that every few steps the computer say a message depending on location, here ill give a few examples:

*'''grasslands'''
**the grassy field sways under the wind's rush as you take a step.|
**something far off squaks and makes a strange throaty bellow.|

*'''water'''
**a wave crashes calmly in the distance|
**a spalsh can be heard from far off|

*'''jungle'''
**a parrot's call can be heard distantly|
**the bushes nearby are rustling from the small wildlife in them|

*'''village (outsider)'''
**the smell of gunpowder wafts into your lungs|
**the smoke comming from a nearby hut smells of fresh turkey|

*'''village (native)'''
**the shaman's voice can be heard traveling through the village|
**you step on the bones of what appears to be a rattlesnake|

*'''beach'''
**the hot sand burns your feet, yet feels wonderfully different|
**several sea shells catch your eye from far off|

please feel free to update these with more, as they are just a list (if simon decides to) that will be used for flavor.
i want to do this because the game gets kinda boring simply traversing through square after square

''Comments''
* One of the noticeable, distinct aspects of that other game are the different messages for each building; i really like this idea. A criticism, though - i'd refrain from mentioning living animals/people or useful items in the descriptions, they could be confusing to newbies. In other words, "a parrot's call can be heard distantly" isn't appropriate, and "the shaman's voice can be heard traveling through the village" might not be appropriate if the shaman is currently dead. The following could substitute: "You see a large ant colony busily rebuilding their hive" (an animal that has no game impact) and "The spirit of Shubar is felt all around you" (doesn't matter if Shubar is alive or dead). --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 14:05, 4 April 2006 (BST)
* I sort of feel like this is something that could easily be put together with a Greasemonkey script. It would be nice, but it isn't really necessary. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 05:35, 5 April 2006 (BST)
----

===slots/ new inventory===
slots and inventory could be implemented where, a picture of a silhouette was shown, with names of equiped items in slotted areas, ex: you skin a goat, find some sharp rocks and fashion yourself some claws, you then put them on, giving you +1 damage to all melee attacks
[[Suggestions:Items#animal wearings|animal wearings]]

"Comments below"

Making Claws? and not "all melee attacks" but only punch attacks --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 06:45, 29 March 2006 (BST)

I don't see why you need item slots for this. Having a pair of claws in the inventory would just improve punch damage by 1. That said, I don't like the idea of making oneself claws. Seems a little silly, when you have actual weapons around. Seems a little silly, either way, really. Perhaps that's just my sense of aesthetics, though, and not that of the majority of the players.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 06:37, 4 April 2006 (BST)
----

===Boat Construction===
Boats wouldn't be able to go into The very deep water people can't go into because the tides would rip them apart but could go move in all water for only 1 AP and it also prevents sharks from biting you. Multipule people could get into a boat based on how much wood is used, like
n*.001 x 1 = People Where n = The amount of wood used.

'''Edit'''

When Boats are being boarded each player may vote on who they decide should be the captain. The captian may move boat, call the boat any non vulgar name and anyone may jump off the boat at any time except the captain. Boats could only be built on a beach and automaticly once built move the person who constructed it into the nearest water square. Players may board the baot at any time by moving into the same square as it and selecting enter. When the captain moves the boat onto a land square the boat is destroyed and all people who boarded are thrown onto the beach. Players may change the captain at any time by changing there vote. Natives can not board Outsider boats and outsiders can not board native boats. What the boat looks like and is called depends on the size of it.

1 person: Raft

2 people: Large raft

3-4: Small boat

5-6: Boat

7-9: Large Boat

10-24: Huge Boat

25 and up: Gigantic Boat

--[[User:Slith|Slith]] 06:42, 29 March 2006 (BST)

''Comments''
*check out the skills section, i already suggested something like that.... anyway, check it out --[[User:Richard Rose|Richard Rose]]
*While the huts are handled in Richard's suggestion, I am interested in the boat aspect. I think that placing multiple players on a boat will be troublesome. Who decides where the boat goes - the server? the first player on the boat? It's also important to keep in mind that we already are offered a skill to help with moving in water - '''Swimming'''. If we are to introduce rafts, there should be some mechanics set in place to minimize their usefulness. Perhaps carrying a raft through non-water terrain doubles movement cost to discourage players from carrying one everywhere. Perhaps the raft only has a limited amount of moves in deep water before breaking up. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:44, 29 March 2006 (BST)
** Yeah I changed the suggestion based on your suggestion's :) --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 04:40, 30 March 2006 (BST)
*"Welcome to the Shartak ferry sevice. Please pay the captain your fee of 3 coins. We will be departing for the pirate ship in 3 hours. The captain has locked the destination coordinates and will not change directions unless the boat's integrity is threatend. We will arive in 50 AP + 10 AP per passenger + 5 per day due to drift. You are encouraged to help paddle the boat as this will help us arive sooner. If you decide to leave the boat at any time we will not refund you or allow you to reboard. Please do not pull out any corks or kick any boards as the boat is fragile and will sink if badly damaged."--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 05:06, 1 April 2006 (BST)
** Yeah ^^ That too --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 00:48, 3 April 2006 (BST)
* Boats sound cool. There are a lot of different ways to implement boats that aren't that complicated. Here's one example: suppose that a boat can hold 4 people. Anyone who wants to control the boat spends 4 AP to move the boat one square (larger boats move more slowly). Thus the boat could wander back and forth depending on who currently has the helm, but is unlikely to travel faster than a swimmer. Anyone (native or outsider) can dive overboard or climb onboard at any time, and the boat can be chopped up and destroyed by enough effort. ... The way I envision it, a boat never leaves the water -- the boat gets constructed on a beach square and then can only be moved onto water. It is never an inventory item. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 09:31, 2 June 2006 (BST)
**That's a good idea. I would go so far, though, as to say that it has to be constructed in shallow water.It would just make it easier. I would propose that the boat require four pieces of driftwood, plus two for every extra person. Thus a 1-man raft would be 4 pieces, a 2-man raft would be 6, a 3-man would be 8, and so on.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 18:26, 2 June 2006 (BST)
***Although there's no reason not to require, umm, a boatload of wood for construction, rather than just 2 + 2 per person. If the boat has any advantages at all over swimming, you could easily require huge quantities of wood without game imbalance. The original suggester had 1000 pieces per person, that's over the top, but why not 18 wood per person or something. That means N sailors could build an N-person boat in a single day searching at Shartak's Shipyard. Although construction might require another day of additional AP, and a hammer... --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 23:07, 2 June 2006 (BST)
::::I'd be in favor of boat construction, but it should be ''significantly'' harder and MUCH more time consuming to work, really only the most hardcore players should try it. Realistically, a person should need about 20 pieces of wood to displace their own body weight, so 20 wood per person is about right. It should take at least a week of devoted searching to come up with this amount for one person, and would require a fair amount of organization to build a large craft, but come on, its a BOAT! Virtually no attacks from anyone ever! Easy access to hard-to-reach islands! It should be extremely rare and time-consuming to do this IMO.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 05:18, 3 June 2006 (BST)

----

===Poisoning===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, status effect, balance|
suggest_scope=All classes, primarily Warriors|
suggest_description=Currently, the blowpipe can only carry 1 dart, yet weighs the same amount of inventory space as a rifle with 2 bullets. If you were to pit a fully leveled Soldier armed with loaded rifles against a fully leveled Warrior armed with loaded blowpipes, the battle is in favor of the Soldier who requires less time to reload while inbattle and dealing superior damage. (rifle's 5 to blowpipe's 4).

To address this, I would propose that poison darts actually cause poisoning. Poisoning would behave much like a shark bite - causing 1 HP damage per action performed until they are administered a FAK or medical herbs. A character can die if poison is left untreated. The attacker receives no additional XP for this kill or the damage dealt from poison. Poisoning would not stack, but it would be possible for a character to suffer from both poison and shark bites. The introduction of poison may require the dart's damage to be reduced to something substantially lower. Perhaps a default of 2 HP inflicted.

Up for discussion - does poisoning have a percent chance of occurring, an AP lifespan (only lasts 10 moves), and perhaps only works on non-npc characters?|
suggest_time=18:38, 6 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Lint|Lint]]|
suggest_comments=

*Sounds great! I've heard that some of the toxicins used to poison darts can induce illutions. It would be interesting if poisoning increases AP usage for certain actions or even better imagined enemies (that Sixth Sence could pick out).--[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 08:24, 7 April 2006 (BST)
* Have you seen the size of the some of the blowpipes that certain tribes carry? They're anything from 6 to 10 foot long! It's hardly surprising that they occupy the same inventory space as a rifle :) On the other hand, poisoning from darts sounds like a good idea.. I don't know that they should poison forever though, maybe for a limited number of AP, but perhaps have the effect be cumulative up to a certain point? Get shot 5 times and you lose 1 HP for every AP used for 5 x whatever the limit is. Does that make sense? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 21:16, 7 April 2006 (BST)
***Exactly - e.g., each poison dart that hits adds 2 AP to the poison duration, and while poisoned, you lose 1HP per AP used. The Poison Dart would eventually inflict 6 hp of damage, offsetting the extra damage and double barrel of the rifle. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 07:22, 12 April 2006 (BST)
**That might work, that way the Warrior has incentive to continue using the blowpipe multiple times on a target rather than just switch to their machete after the poison takes effect. Add to the character table a boolean flag (Poison = True) and give it a Poison Timer int. When the timer reaches 0, the Poison gets flipped to False. When the character dies or a FAK or Herb is applied, the Poison gets flipped to False and the timer gets set to 0. If the flag is True and they're poisoned again, stack the timer. I'm going to put forth this suggestion to the Forum. I don't have a lot of experience with using the blowpipe (I'm a machete guy) so they should weigh in on this. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 22:17, 7 April 2006 (BST)
* Or how about you can find [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_dart_frog#Toxicity frogs] and use them to put differnt posion effects on your darts? --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 04:57, 11 April 2006 (BST)
:*If we're adding poison dart frogs, I demand that they be lickable. It wouldn't be right, if you couldn't lick the poison dart frogs.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 20:14, 11 April 2006 (BST)
::* Ok... then some benifical frogs too! And people can't tell the diffrence between them unless they get some skill? --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 06:27, 17 April 2006 (BST)
*Bump! Awaiting a short lifespan (eg 4hp) additional poison effect for poison darts. And/or Native-only Poisoning skill so that Snake + Dart = uberdart that causes permanent poisoning (aka shark wound). --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 20:51, 1 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===PvP Protection===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Game mechanics, pvp, nopvp, vs, player versus player|
suggest_scope=All Classes|
suggest_description=A full implementation of player versus player protection. This would be a nice feature for newbies allowing them time to adjust to the game without getting slaughtered. I envisage something allowing you to enable nopvp without the ability to disable for at least 100AP. Also when you hit a player who is flagged nopvp then you would get a message along the lines of "As your blade bounces off an invisible shield you suddenly notice a shamanic medicine pouch around the neck of target, they are protected, it would be pointless to continue to attack target." where target will be replaced by the players name.|
suggest_time=10:00, 13 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Iamtas|Iamtas]]|
suggest_comments=

* This is a good, well-thought suggestion. But while I don't generally like PKing, I think it is important to keep it available to those that do enjoy it. With XP penalties and easy resurrection, PKing not ruining the game from my perspective and it shouldn't be restricted further. I would not mind a method of informing players that view my character profile to see that I am flagged for pvp or not, but I am against preventing PVP without purchasing such an ability. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 21:16, 13 April 2006 (BST)
* New players already get an AP bonus and need less XP to level; I don't see the need for a newbie specific ability. I'd rather see a safe area over a moveable system - something like a sacred hut in native villages and a guard hut in outsider villages which anyone who hasn't attacked another player in 100 AP can enter and within which all PvP activity is prohibited, wastes AP, or perhaps results in HP loss only to the attacker ("Your attack has angered the mighty (spirits or guards) in the area; they smite you").--[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 04:12, 14 April 2006 (BST)
*Having both a PvP pirate and a pacifist shaman, and having been PKed on both... I don't like this idea. I like the 100AP newbie status. I don't like the "enabling" nopvp. Sorry. Death is a part of the game. If you walk into a tribe of hostile headhunters, they aren't going to just stand by and let you through--no matter how peaceful your business.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 04:27, 14 April 2006 (BST)
*I'm aware that new players get extra AP and newbie protection isn't what this is about. It is more useful for being protected from the players that sit in their home town bashing away at their own folk. Even with that said my main reason for nopvp was for another idea I have for a skill track that at the time of thinking about it I thought would require a nopvp implementation. I may post the skill track idea sometime when I have finished thinking about all the details.--[[User:Iamtas|Iamtas]] 12:07, 14 April 2006 (BST)
*How about you can't be attacked in your village/settlement by people that come from your village/settlement? --[[User:Slith|Slith]] 06:30, 17 April 2006 (BST)

}}

===New strategic location on island===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=New location, Game mechanics, |
suggest_scope=N/A|
suggest_description=I think the addition of one or more major new "strategic" locations on the island would greatly improve the game. What exactly it would be can be worked out, all it really ''has'' to be is very valuable to occupy and far away from any village or town (i.e. far away from any shaman). Both sides would rush to occupy this location and would fight each other for control of it.

This would have 3 major benefits for the game that I can see: 1) It would get the action away from towns/villages/shamans, 2) It would make death more meaningful and make killing an enemy meaningful (all death means in towns/villages now is having to float five spaces or so to the shaman and then you get a free revive. There are no easy/free revives out in the center of the island, you would lose both location and the 50 AP to contact, unless you decide to stick around and play as a spirit), 3) It would give people a goal in the game, a major location to fight over and defend, a location that isn't pointless to fight over, as towns/villages are because they cannot be taken. All in all it would have the benefit of making the game more fun.

As far as what the new location would be exactly, one idea could be gold mine(s). They would be valuable because standing on a gold mine square would give you 1 gold coin/hr and require no AP expenditure. The specifics of this are wide open and dont even much matter, as long as the location is far from settlements and very valuable to occupy so players will flock out there and fight for control, making for an exciting time and making killing enemies non-pointless.

If implemented, it should only be one new location at first, with maybe a couple more introduced later once things get going. The location should have a name, and it should be relayed to players in the form of Game News so that everyone knows of its existance and where it is in general terms, e.g. "A gold mine was discovered just south of the mountain, Natives and Outsiders are both rushing out there for control".

''Note: One of the raisons d'etre for this suggestion has been eliminated with the shaman changes, so this suggestion less relevant than it was and in some ways outdated. It might still be workable, though it will have to be approached idfferently.'' [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:27, 4 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_time=21:02, 22 April 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Arminius|Arminius]]|
suggest_comments=

* I realise it was just an example, but 1 gold per hour without any AP requirement is probably a bit much. Definitely something to expand on though. I like it. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 21:46, 22 April 2006 (BST)
** For example, award 1 gold coin to any one player at random who is on the mine for at least the full hour. Or only award 1 gold coin at random to any one player if only one side occupies the mine -- if both outsiders and nativers are present, they are fighting for control and no one is mining. Generally speaking, 24 gold coins per <s>hour</s>day fed into the entire game will not mess up the economy -- that's probably less than 75-150 AP of searching (and a trip to the trading hut). Alternatively, allow players to search the area with a <s>15%</s> 40% find rate for one gold coin, as long as none of the opposing faction are present in the square. Drawbacks: (1) This sort of high-impact location could also increase zerging/cheating, which wouldn't be fun for anyone. (2) A gold mine could rapidly devalue gold coins until they're effectively worthless, ending the "value" of the mine. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 02:22, 23 April 2006 (BST)
***Giving out small numbers of coins to only a certain percentage of the people on the mine square seems too low a reward, while the original 1 gold coin per hour is definitely too high. But unless people get something tangible every hour that they stand there, people may not bother to fight for control of the mine, which is the whole point. Here is an idea: Make a new item called "gold nugget". Every hour that you are standing on the gold mine square and your faction controls it, you get one gold nugget. Then create a hut 1 square adjacent to the mine and inside have an NPC called "gold prospector Jim" (for example), who will "cash in" your nuggets, 10 nuggets (or 5, or whatever is deemed the best number) for one coin. Gold nuggets on their own would have no value. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 14:57, 29 April 2006 (BST)
****You could achieve the same effect without creating a prospector hut just by giving a straight 10% (or 20%) chance of 1 gold coin each hour. (To me a single "prospector Jim" gets a bit sketchy if a thousand people are rushing the mine...). In my opinion, you get better scalability and realism if the gold-per-person decreases as people increase. If there are a thousand people on the mine, then each person gets only 5% chance per hour (=50gc/hour production). If there are 10 people on the mine, then each one gets a 100% chance per hour (=10gc/hour production). Gold can't be earned from the mine when competing factions are on the location, creating a contested site is the purpose of implementing this suggestion. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 09:41, 2 June 2006 (BST)
::::If there is a 10% chance to get one gold coin per hour, and if during a large portion of the day both natives and outsiders are on the gold mine square so no mining is going on, then the odds would be that the lots of people would get 0 gold coins (or very few) before being killed, a total waste of time for them, and they might not bother going back after they're killed, which defeats the gold mine's purpose as a strategic location that people will fight over. This is why I say people need something tangible every hour. In fact, that should be revised to "something tangible every AP turnover", i.e. every 20 minutes. Even if someone is there for only a short time, they should have something to show for it, which they almost certainly wouldnt with a low % chance per hour of getting one gold coin. Your idea of scaling the gold that the mine produces could be implemented by giving one gold nugget every AP turnover to every member of the faction controls the mine, but just make Gold Prospector Jim give less gold coins the more nuggets he receives. In other words, a gold mining version of the current trading system. Since he will have received 0 gold nuggets as the mine is first discovered, one gold nugget could trade for one gold coin, and as more people start cashing in, the value of a gold nuggest would go down, to where he wants 20 nuggets for one gold coin. The value would fluctuate throughout the day and week as people cash in more gold nuggets. This way, scalability is achieved while continuing to be able to reward something tangible every AP turnover. Also, I would say gold nuggets should take 0 inventory space just like gold coins, since in theory 72 could be given out per day to one person, and that would fill up anyone's inventory, allowing them to not receive any more. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 00:27, 4 June 2006 (BST)

* An alternative to the gold mine would be some kind of ancient treasure hoard, so not just gold coins but also statues, ancient armour and maybe some pretty nasty weapons. However, to get the good stuff you'd have to go into the trap-filled maze and actually make it into the chamber where the treasure is. With spirit-proof doors so people don't just die, go in, find the correct route, revive and go in...[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 17:33, 24 April 2006 (BST)
**This is interesting but seems overly complicated, and seems like more of a one-shot kind of thing, but most significantly there is no real value in holding such a location. A gold mine would be a simple, straightforward, and constantly of high value to occupy. Also, once one person finds the way through the maze, soon everyone would know. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 14:57, 29 April 2006 (BST)
***Good point... Ignore my suggestion, it's not very good... [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 12:27, 2 June 2006 (BST)

}}

===Life cycle===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=balance change|
suggest_scope=NPC animals|
suggest_description=Currently the main way of leveling up is by killing things (i.e. NPCs & characters) I suggest there be some sort of life cycle for animals. For example, when there are massive amounts of tigers being killed less spawn. But if everybody leaves tigers alone, more spawn. If would look something like this:
:0-5% of animal type killed, x5 spawn rate
:6-15% of animal type killed, x2 spawn rate
:16-45% of animal type killed x1 spawn rate
:46-75% of animal type killed x0.5 spawn rate
:76-99% of animal type killed x0.1 spawn rate
:100% of animal type killed, animal is extinct
 This forces people to find alternative ways to gain Xp (possibly more lucrative ones?)|
suggest_time=03:22, 29 May 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]]|
suggest_comments=

I have the funny feeling that animals would start going extinct, which would just be a pain. I'd rather not see this one implemented.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 15:50, 29 May 2006 (BST)
: Would work if there was a total animal population that was always kept, so if tigers start to become extinct more deer appear, but this would lead to an island of only elephants. Would also work if the animals that were extinct reemerged later on, then it would just be annoying. But the goal of "find alt ways to gain Xp" won't be realised via this manner - it would instead lead to more player vs player action. Instead of taking away our current methods, perhaps other methods of xp gaining could be added, like the agriculture skill, or some current activities could have an xp bonus (we get xp for uncovering trees, why not for finding fruits? Could trading become xp-worthy?).--[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 16:47, 29 May 2006 (BST)
:: I don't know why we should force people to find the lucrative alternative ways to gain XP. Animals are extremely rare in some areas of Shartak, and PKing and PvP is common. Banshee wailing spam, punch-heal farming, and gratuitous healer orgies are annoying enough already. Basically, the non-healing/non-harming XP paths need to be more viable: XP for exploring, chopping, discovery, contacting foreign villages, and so on. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 10:01, 2 June 2006 (BST)


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===Moving through fully chopped down or overgrown jungle===
{{suggestion|
suggest_type=Movement change|
suggest_scope=Every character in the game|
suggest_description=I sugget a change in the movement mechanics. It may not be approved by you, but I think it's logical. I wouls like to see a change that allows to reduce movement on fully chopped (d0) squares of jungle (I think that a reduction to 0,5 AP/move <s>(0,25 AP/move with Trekking skill)</s>, and an increase on (I think) squares ranging from d7 to d9 to 2 AP/move (1 AP/move with Trekking). D10 squares stay impossible to pass, until chopped. The logic says that when you have nothing under your feet except for ground you move faster, and in dense growth areas you walk slower. Such a change as I proposed may also need an adjustment in the jungle growth speed.|
suggest_time=22:15, 1 June 2006 (BST)|
suggest_author=[[User:Xintlaer|Xintlaer]]|
suggest_comments=

*I like this, except the part about the trekking skill giving the ability to move 4 d(0) squares in one AP, that should definitely not be done. Maybe this: trekking should only apply to d(1) and up (the skill description says "faster movement through the jungle" anyway), and on d(0), all characters, whether trekking or not, should expend 0.5 AP to move onto another d(0) square. (note that if both of those changes are made it would not harm trekking-people, their AP-usage would be same as it is now.) One benefit of lowering movement cost on d(0) squares as far as game dynamics is concerned, is that it would make roads, the upkeep of roads, and the upkeep of towns (keeping towns free of jungle overgrowth), actually meaningful in a practical sense, by allowing for quicker travel. [[User:Arminius|Arminius]] 22:41, 1 June 2006 (BST)
** Exactly what I was going to say, Arminius. Trekking on a road would be absolutely incredible... so we just don't give trekkers any added bonus there.--[[User:Wifey|Wifey]] 23:52, 1 June 2006 (BST)
***Understood, agreed, changing--[[User:Xintlaer|Xintlaer]] 09:13, 2 June 2006 (BST)
*0.5 AP per square on roads (still 0.5 AP with Trekking). 2 AP per square on heavy jungle (1 AP with Trekking). Creates tangible effect for the Highway Society - Preservation Front conflicts. An absolutely brilliant suggestion. --[[User:Tycho44|Tycho44]] 10:06, 2 June 2006 (BST)
* Nice idea. Tap tap tap.. try that.. I think it should be pretty much what you've said. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 19:40, 2 June 2006 (BST)

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