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(Water supply)
(Split suggestions page into separate pages as it was becoming pretty unwieldy.)
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Bug reports should go on the [[Bugs]] page.
Bug reports should go on the [[Bugs]] page.
== Separate Suggestion Pages ==
This page was becoming rather unwieldy, so it has been split into separate pages:
* [[Suggestions:Skills]]
* [[Suggestions:Items]]
* [[Suggestions:Other]]
* [[Suggestions:Classes]]
* [[Suggestions:Game_Mechanics]]
== To-do list? ==
== To-do list? ==
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--[[User:Simon|Simon]] 14:59, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
--[[User:Simon|Simon]] 14:59, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
:I'd say unless your debating whether to implement a change, or are seeking feedback, just make whatever changes you are going to make and only tell us afterward. While I'm sure we are all interested in what might be in the pipeline for Shartak, it creates expectations, and expectations lead to frustration when the ideas you are planning aren't implemented in a timely fashion. Think of a game like Duke Nukem Forever, which created massive backlash among its fans for going through delay after delay. If the game designers had not created the expectation (and being unable to fulfill it), there would be no basis for the fan backlash. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 02:23, 6 March 2006 (GMT)
:I'd say unless your debating whether to implement a change, or are seeking feedback, just make whatever changes you are going to make and only tell us afterward. While I'm sure we are all interested in what might be in the pipeline for Shartak, it creates expectations, and expectations lead to frustration when the ideas you are planning aren't implemented in a timely fashion. Think of a game like Duke Nukem Forever, which created massive backlash among its fans for going through delay after delay. If the game designers had not created the expectation (and being unable to fulfill it), there would be no basis for the fan backlash. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 02:23, 6 March 2006 (GMT)
{| cellpadding=10 align=right
| __TOC__
== Skills ==
Both outsiders and natives with this skill should be able to plant trees (mango, banana) on fertile land. By clearing away jungle, and applying an example of the fruit of the tree you wish to plant, you could sow the seed. A tree of that type would then sprout X days later. This would open up for plantation, and help feed the villages/settlements. --[[User:DKChannelboredom|DKChannelboredom]] (2 March)
:Interesting idea, perhaps only a chance that a tree will grow, and to ensure a tree grows you have to plant a certain number of fruit of the same kind on the same block. Of course, does this mean that existing trees should occasionally die off, say if they get surrounded by 8 blocks of highest density jungle and the tree block is also highest density jungle.. maybe explained as something to do with lack of sunlight reaching the tree because of the amount of jungle around it. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 09:47, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
::Why not treat existing trees and planted trees separately? My initial thought is that if I did not have this skill, I would still like the opportunity to gather resources from a dependable source. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
=== Weapon Skills ===
The Warrior/Soldiers class should get weapon skills, like spear skills for the warrior and rifle skills for the soldier, make the soldiers skills make the rifle have better to hit then the natives spear but the rifle requires the searching of ammo, this makes the difference between natives and outsiders warrior classes more than the blowpipe and rifle (blowpipes do 1 less damage) EDIT: I ahnotice that the outsiders do indeed have rifle training, freshly added to the wiki I guess.-- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 11:07, 17 February 2006 (GMT)
We have been doing some research(see the talk page in character classes) and it appears that warriors are no better at fighting(unless you count 10 extra hp as being really great) than any other class, correct me if I'm wrong but if there is no warrior only fighting skill what makes them warriors and not shamans w/ blowpipes(pardon the pun but they "blow") and +10hp? and if that is all they are how come soilders get extra skills? -- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 02:55, 3 March 2006 (GMT)
Also, if you've got a machete and the three melee skills, there's never any point in using a blowpipe (unless you've got 1AP left and a victim with only 4HP remaining). There should be a skill that increases the chances of hitting with a blowpipe, to at least 30% - especially since you have to search for darts. Viveca Lindfors, 6 March 2006, 17:25 GMT
=== Tracking ===
Anyone with the Tracking skill should be able to track where people have gone, either generic "A native passed by here recently" or more specific "Average Joe left heading north 2 days ago".
* Should probably be a timelimit so you don't see "Average Joe left heading north 90 days ago". - [[User:Snarf|Snarf]]
=== Religious Devotion ===
Required to use "Holy Scriptures" --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)
=== Jungle Skills ===
The jungle environment has great potential to add significant dynamic to this game. These could be a set of skills to reflect this.
: Jungle Lore: Player has x% chance of discovering item/artifact.  Might work in conjunction with search skill.
: Make/Detect Traps: Spikes, Pits etc... Not sure this is possible and what would be need to time degrade this.[[User:Nankilstlas|Nankilstlas]]
: Some kind of "hiding" skill where you can spend AP to conceal yourself in fauna, so you can't be seen by passersby. Visually, it could take the form of "reforesting" a block to dark green, and someone who chops through would "uncover" you, perhaps getting some XP? --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 19:34, 25 February 2006 (GMT)
:: A 'trapping' skill looks like it would be exploited by greifers (surrounding someone with traps, for example), but I like the 'Hiding' and 'Jungle Lore' ideas.--[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 02:26, 26 February 2006 (GMT)
:: The hiding skill shouldn't conceal you from animals or someone with the Sixth Sense, Exploration, or Jungle Lore skills, otherwise the player would be invincible.--[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 21:15, 27 February 2006 (GMT)
:::Agreed, hostile animals should be able to sniff out hidden players, and Sixth Sense makes sense as well. Hidden players have to remain motionless to stay hidden, using items, searching, etc, would "unhide" the person. I was also thinking how the "reforesting" aspect could be abused to create vast areas that needed to be chopped down, so maybe a player could only hide in an already dark green area, (getting a message like ''there is not enough foliage to suitable hide in'' when trying in a cleared area) limiting its effect somewhat, and creating a little extra tension when on the run from someone and trying to find an overgrown area to hide in. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 22:37, 27 February 2006 (GMT)
=== Skinning ===
This is a skill that does not have a pre-requisite. Upon coming across an area where a dead animal is present, the player is given an opportunity to skin the animal. The process of skinning costs 1 AP and has a chance of producing items such as '''Animal Hide''' or '''Animal Tooth''' or '''Animal Feathers'''. These items can be traded to an NPC found in villages and exchanged for Gold Coins. This skill should be available to all classes to grant them all with an equal opportunity of earning Gold. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 21:48, 23 February 2006 (GMT)
* Extend skinning to killed players? No, that's just wrong. We are civilized.
* Make skinning have a pre-requisite of '''Exploration'''? Perhaps.
* Make skinning always produce an item, rather than chance? No, I like a good challenge.
* Perhaps it could be tied to the Meat suggestion? Possibly.
* Good idea, perhaps natives don't have a pre-requisite, but outsiders need exploration?  *cough* --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 02:12, 26 February 2006 (GMT)
** While that may be a more realistic way to handle it - since natives would conceivably be more experienced with such matters - I think that changing the skill tree for such a minor skill would upset the general sense of game balance between the two sides. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 02:43, 26 February 2006 (GMT)
=== Animal Spirit ===
(native only)  Upon gaining this skill, an animal type is associated with the player.  Any attacks by the player on that animal result in negative xp, but the animal is less likely to attack the player.  Additionally, if the player dons the skin of the animal (perhaps via the Skinning skill) then a bonus is given to the player, such as faster movement, hit bonus, damage bonus.  Bonus could be dependant on animal.  Upon player death, there is a chance the player's animal spirit will change.  --frisco
=== Build Training ===
(Outsiders only) They gain the ability to build walls around the outsider settlements. There would be different levels like reinforced, light, massive, etc. Whoever can attack them and destroy them. Maybe there would be a skill for building gates? --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:33, 1 March 2006 (GMT)
* Natives should be able to make walls too - think King Kong, plus if there are native ruins on this island, then they must still have some decent construction knowledge lingering around.  However, Outsiders should have an "Advanced" skill that allows for stronger walls. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 04:41, 1 March 2006 (GMT)
:Yes, any human should be able to build, and they should ONLY be able to build in certain areas, so as not to have some group lay claim to a section of the island with key resources (assuming there are some). Also, it should take a LOT of AP. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:18, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
=== Trap Laying ===
(Native only) They can place one time use traps that dmg outsiders only. This skill can only be used in the jungle. Maybe a skill to be able to detect traps? --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:36, 1 March 2006 (GMT)
* Again i'm thinking Outsiders could make traps too - some of them must have been hunters in the Old Country - but perhaps an Advanced skill for natives, leading to higher success rate, since they are more used to the environment.  This skill seems dangerous, though, possibly leading to clans just laying traps in every single square of jungle, making it ridiculous for the other side.  Perhaps a trap can only be made in certain jungle types, and only lasts until the jungle changes in level (either growing up naturally or down by the same character type chopping it). --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 04:53, 1 March 2006 (GMT)
:This was already proposed in the "jungle skills" section. I agree, it seem too easy to abuse by griefers.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:18, 2 March 2006 (GMT)
===Comment Cartagraphy===
Applies to Natives & Outsiders, most likely best applied only to the classes, scouts & explorers. I am thinking that it would be great to get more out of the map. This skill would allow those who have it to be able to add a limited number of short comments to their maps. These comments could work as references so as to be able to use the map to help find points of interest at some other time. I could see this probably difficult to implement, but perhaps it could work in that one could click in a quadrant on the map which would reload the page and allow you to add a text comment / description to a form. This text comment on a save would place a reference number on that quadrant of the map and the text would be listed to the right or below the map with accompanying reference number. -- [[User: fitzcarraldo|fitzcarraldo]]|<sup>[[User talk:fitzcarraldo|T]]</sup> 17:05, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
== Items ==
=== Spear ===
It could be the native warriors main weapon, give it a base damage of 3, same to hit as machete but it wouldn't cut through jungle -- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 11:02, 17 February 2006 (GMT)
:A spear for stabbing or a spear for throwing (i.e single use) ? --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:49, 25 February 2006 (GMT)
=== Head-shrinking powder ===
This could be either a melee or area weapon used by natives.
* What are the effects of it? Causes X HP of damage? Loss of AP? Loss of XP? Instant death? - [[User:Snarf|Snarf]]
=== Meat ===
Heals 2 HP. Used by both outsiders and tribals. It appears in your inventory when you kill a beastie. [[User:Bungalow Bill|Bungalow Bill]]
* But you can only carry 200 pounds of meat back to your wagon. <nowiki></oregontrail></nowiki> --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 01:15, 13 February 2006 (GMT)
* Or you have to cook it, taking one AP and possibly a fire-lighting skill (who wants to eat raw monkey?).[[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 20:12, 20 February 2006 (GMT)
** Maybe you don't have to cook it but you get less HP and possibly lose HP to food poisoning. [DarkFerret]
* Or, to make it more, hm, tribal, you could need to bring it back to specific places in the village where it could be (instantaneously) cooked and used as a replenished "health pool" any player could use. You would still have the occasional berries to eat in the forest, but real meal would occure at a settlement. It would also provide a more efficient healing system (as currently, you roughly get to spend 50 AP to recover 4 or 5 HP, which makes death the most efficient way to restore your HP). -- Leaf
**''There is a large pot of stew cooking, it appears to be half full.''
''You eat some and feel better. After a few spoonfuls you find your friend's pocket watch.'' [DarkFerret]
=== Radio beacon/receiver ===
A radio beacon/receiver for outsiders to pinpoint specific locations of interest.
* What's wrong with using the GPS co-ordinates of a specific location? - [[User:Snarf|Snarf]]
*Perhaps a way to have GPS waypoints or markers IN one own's GPS? --[[User:Wcervantes|Wcervantes]] 19:39, 16 February 2006 (GMT)
=== Holy Scriptures ===
Used to convert Natives into Ousiders. Requires "Religious Devotion". Most likely found around Outsider settlements --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)
*Nobody wants to have a class change againt their will. -Grigoriy
*Noone wants to die against their will either, but it does happen ;-) Might be irritating, but also might be quite interesting. It would have to be possible both ways of course, natives to outsiders and outsiders to natives. Perhaps the outsiders can convert natives to outsiders with holy scriptures using the religious devotion skill and natives can convert outsiders to natives with a bottle of beer using the seduction skill! ;-) --[[User:Murk|Murk]] 12:28, 4 March 2006 (GMT)
=== GPS Unit (Redesign) ===
This is a suggestion to change the gps unit into an object that presumably fits better with the game setting. We currently have no other modern item available for use (anachronism - VOCABULARY WORD!). Perhaps we should use a sextant? And rather than reveal the position all of the time, it requires a 1 AP use in non-dense, non-enclosed area. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 21:48, 23 February 2006 (GMT)
* Yes, GPS units are indeed ''malapropos'' (another vocabulary word :D)--[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 00:33, 27 February 2006 (GMT)
* Y'know, the "GPS Unit" item has stuck out like a sore thumb to me too.  I'd be very much in favor of a lower-tech replacement, if only because it makes the game more timeless.  But what tools ''did'' explorers of earlier eras use to measure latitude and longitude while traveling by land, anyway? And how accurate were they? Alternatively phrased: if you were trapped on a desert island without a GPS Unit, how would you estimate where you were? Lint's suggestion for a lower-tech replacement item, requiring AP and suitable terrain conditions for proper use, appeals to me. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:03, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
* I've done some research into this and as Lint said, a sextant is what was used. Unfortunately though, a sextant doesn't do both longitude and latitude very quickly, you need charts/tables and several hours. See for info. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 14:55, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
=== Refillable containers ===
Does it really make sense that after drinking something, you automatically discard the container it had been in? I propose a modification to the inventory system so bottles/gourds work similar to rifles and blowguns--they can be refilled if they are empty. Obviously, you can't just carry around spare water like you can ammo, so to refill a water container, you have to be in water. This would clearly make areas near water more popular, which I don't think is a bad thing, or without precedent.  Furthermore, this could lead to new and interesting directions, such as other liquids that could be carried around, causing various effects. Off the top of my head:
* drinking too much "ocean" water will make you sick (reducing your hit % temporarily)
* a "create mysterious serum" skill  the shaman/scientist can eventually learn that (along with certain ingredients) lets them create a "buff" potion.
* special healing water springs that have double the recuperative effect
This would also address one of the concerns I've had regarding healing skills. To my knowledge, there is no place in Shartak where you are more likely to consistantly find healing kits/herbs, etc. its all fairly random. By comparision, UD has certain buildings where you can only find certain items (i.e. hospitals = first aid kits). IMO, its currently too difficult/AP consuming to heal. Without a way to consistantly find/create healing items, it's not likely there will be "healers" willing to use their hard-to-find healing items on anyone else. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 22:14, 25 February 2006 (GMT)
::Have you found the hut in Dalpok with all the drying herbs hanging up? Says something about a shaman being busy, I seem to have a reasonable success rate at finding healing herbs there. Not sure if there are more around. --[[User:Snarf|Snarf]] 22:17, 25 February 2006 (GMT)
:::No, I hadn't noticed such a hut(s), I've assumed they were all pretty much the same. If certain huts are more likely to contain certain items, I've another suggestion--'''label them'''. Any opinion on my primary suggestion of refillable containers? --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 22:31, 25 February 2006 (GMT)
::::I can confirm that huts may look identical on the outside, but their inside descriptions can differ significantly.  Fortunately, anyone with the right tool can carve a message on a hut's outer walls, such as "Empty Inside" or "Shaman's Hut".  --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:24, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
::Refillable containers? Give the user the choice to discard the container? Sure, sounds cool to me.  About the water supply: I agree that ocean water (water right off the beach) would be bound to be salty and unpotable in a real-world scenario.  According to the [[Locations]] page, there's a river off the south side of the mountain, which would seem to be the only known terrestrial fresh water source on the whole island.  Hmm, a thought: If we were to have refillable containers, then might one also expect there to be wells in or around the villages? --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:24, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
:::There is at least one more (much shorter) river near Derby. I'll bet there is a lake or two somewhere as well. Wells are probably not a bad idea. --[[User:Dr. J|Dr. J]] 15:05, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
== Other ==
=== Supplies in settlements ===
Could there perhaps be some kind of a more reliable way to get things in villages, apart from randomly finding them? Coming across abandoned items in jungles, evaquated police departments and such makes sense, but going on an epic quest for a machete under someone's carpet in an active village just seems a bit out of place.
So, if it's not too much of a hassle, which it most likely is, I suggest there to perhaps be put some kind of trader characters in settlements, who could exchange all kindsa things for random junk you've found lying around in other places, or maybe you could get these fellas to make items for you free of charge, which you could go and pick up after a period of time?
..probably too complicated for something that's rather useless. Oh well. --[[User:Ismo Kuikka|Ismo Kuikka]]
:There's a trading post in one of the huts in Dalpok, can't get anything there though. Perhaps a sign of things to come? --[[User:Snarf|Snarf]] 10:33, 17 February 2006 (GMT)
=== Tunnels ===
Tunnels underneath the island lead to interesting places.
as a res''Comments''
:How do you know they don't exist? :) [[User:Dr._J|Dr. J]]
=== Treasure to capture ===
"Capture the flag" type objective, in this case the flags are treasure from each village. Bonus points in the form of XP or gold coins to be awarded to the holder of the treasure at certain intervals.
:I would like to modify this slightly Mystery Suggester. Please see the '''Unique Item Hunt''' suggestion. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
=== Writing on the tree (or sand) ===
Should be able to write stuff in the sand on the beaches and carve short messages into trees in the jungle. To avoid "carve-wars" the only way to get rid of messages on trees could be to chop the jungle down and wait for it to grow again before you can write a new message. -- [[User:Snarf|Snarf]] 22:32, 27 January 2006 (GMT)
:FYI, currently working on this. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 23:16, 20 February 2006 (GMT)
:Done. Watch out for quirks depending on where you're writing. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:24, 27 February 2006 (GMT)
=== Informational messages ===
You should be able to see what other people have done since your past turn. Much like the skill above, except for most actions that take place. Such as '[09:34]Joe used a medkit on Roger' or '[05:23]Dan Attacked a Boar and missed'. If this is implemented, there should be a menu that you can use to toggle certain bits of information, to reduce or stop spam. [[User:Durja|Durja]] 18:14, 6 February 2006 (GMT)
:I don't want to see when people miss attacks, that's just too much information (unless it's me that they're attacking!) - [[User:Snarf|Snarf]]
:Would be useful to see when kills are made in the same location eg. Dan killed a boar or Joe killed Roger - [[User:Snarf|Snarf]]
:How about making a list of "informational messages" that might be required? - [[User:Snarf|Snarf]]
:* PlayerX killed PlayerY.
:* PlayerX killed animal.
:* PlayerY died from eating some poisonous berries. (self-inflicted death)
=== Player VS Player Interaction ===
I would propoese a to hit % penalty for attacking members of same Home location.  I believe this will promote exploration and perhaps offer a measure of protection of newly "birthed" population.  As a recent victim of death by the hands of a warrior from my own villiage this has a bit of appeal to me ;). - [[User:Nankilstlas|Nan]]
:Instead of a hit % penalty, what about reducing or eliminating XP earned for such attacks? It would be similar to the ZvZ penalty used in UrbanDead, and its easier to rationalize not getting as much experience fighting one of your own than to rationalize that its harder to hit your own people for some reason. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 19:52, 27 February 2006 (GMT)
:The to hit penalty and the lack of XP should be combined to discourage intravillage conflicts but only on nonclan members(so clans from the same village can fight with each other to simulate a power struggle for leadership), extend this to shamans as well, as its not often the village shaman gets killed by an out-of-towner. --[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 00:27, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
=== Spirit Movement ===
A couple thoughts on this topic.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 02:29, 6 March 2006 (GMT)
*My character has the "trekking" skill, but as a spirit, actually moves '''slower''' (1 AP per square) than when he's alive! Spirits should move '''at least''' as fast as someone skilled at traversing terrain.
*Spirits move effortlessly through the thickest jungle, water, swamp--as it should be. Why should mountains be an impediment?
:Perhaps there's some kind of mineral in the mountain that prevents the spirit from passing through it.. could be mined later on to spirit-proof huts or something (clutching at straws here, can you tell) ?
:They also can't move through the deepest water, but that is the boundary of the game I'm guessing.
=== Areas explored stat ===
Just add a stat in our character page that shows how any areas we have explored, use the same system that is used to determine who is in the top ten, but for everybody so we can all see how many areas we have explored(and how close to the top ten we are :). -- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 00:04, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
== Classes ==
=== Priest ===
Starts off with a "Holy Scripture" and the "Religious Devotion Skill". --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)
:None of the other classes start with a skill. I think they should just have access to the skill, and maybe stuff like scientists don't (I'm not saying all scientists are unreligious, just that there probably aren't any THAT religious!). [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 11:06, 17 February 2006 (GMT)
=== Scientist (Rename) ===
This is a suggestion to change the name of the Scientist class to Professor. From Tarzan to Gilligan's Island, the science-type in has been regarded as Professor rather than Scientist. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 21:48, 23 February 2006 (GMT)
*I like! --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:38, 1 March 2006 (GMT)
::I don't. If someone wants to roleplay as a scholarly Prof, more power to them. As it is, the term "Scientist" suggests a broader archetype, inviting players to make of their character what they will. which I favor. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 23:56, 3 March 2006 (GMT)
::I thought would be closer to anthropologists as, well those are the scientists who explore the jungle. I don't think there would be many astrophysicists or chemists(maybe a few chemists but they wouldn't be with the exploring group-they would come after). You might see one or two medical doctors, but all anthropologists who go into the field have first-aid training(and they don't bring medical doctors when working in hostile landscapes). On top of that the term anthropologist has so many subdisciplines that it is almost as broad as saying scientists. --[[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 00:36, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
=== Villager/Settler ===
[[User:Lint|Lint]] recently made a very salient point with respect to [[Game_Design|Class Balance]]. Namely, there are very few players '''(4% currently)''' choosing to be (Outsider) Settlers or (Native) Villagers. Realistically, these should be the most abundant classes, so clearly (aside from trival starting inventory) these classes clearly lack any definable appeal. I propose that these 2 classes (due to their years of plying and scavenging their surroundings) are more adept at searching then their peers. As such, they have a +20% bonus in base search percentage. There is precedent for this in UD, with the "consumer" class getting an immediate advantage in searching, and though the nature of that game (i.e. constant heavy barricading of Malls) makes it difficult for consumers to realize their advantage, this would not be the case in Shartak.  This change will undoubtedly make these overlooked classes more attractive to new players.--[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:25, 4 March 2006 (GMT)
:I wouldn't say that it's completely a bad thing that the Settler and Villager populations are low. (Wouldn't you say that the Consumer population is the lowest in "that other game"?) However, I do agree that this class doesn't appear to be getting the same respect as the others. The search bonus or perhaps the '''Agriculture''' suggestion might be justifiable. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
=== Animal ===
It would be interesting to play as an animal. They wouldn't be able to use some items or learn certain skills, but they could smell the trails of humans and other animals. Some could eat vegetation, an action similar to choping, and restore HP. --[[User:Darkferret|Darkferret]] 18:24, 4 March 2006 (GMT)
:(Obligatory thinly-disguised anti-griefing suggestion) I'd expect that a playable animal would never be able to see humans' names. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 12:38, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
:How would the existing human skill '''Animal Affinity''' affect playable animals? --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 12:38, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
::''You go to attack Dr. J but he scratches you under your chin so you decide not to''
:::Haha, okay, I guess that's sorted after all :) --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:26, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
=== Pirate ===
Every tropical island needs pirates!  Could either be Outsider or a separate grouping altogether (current pirates being more native than foreign, from the news i read).  Don't know what special skills they have, maybe better at finding gold in towns, or general stuff on the beach, and any parrots they encounter follow them around (perhaps monkeys too).  If agriculture is implemented, they get to grow weed and poppy. Maybe they'd be better as the Outsider NPC counterpart to NPC shamans, and raid towns every so often. --[[User:Frisco|Frisco]] 04:14, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
:I have no idea how we could implement them into Shartak, but I do like pirates... --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 05:29, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
:I have some ideas how to implement them. Just so you know, Pirates have been on my todo list for a couple of months now but I'm holding off sorting them out until I have skills and items worked out for them and have finished some of the higher priority things. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:00, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
== Game Mechanics ==
=== Conversion ===
When an Outsider/Native dies they are reborn as a Native (don't really understand the spirit thing too well). The Outsiders then get a new class/skill, "Religious Conversion" that requires a "Holy Scripture". This allows a "Priest" to convert one native into a Outsider". The converted native would most likely start off as a Settler. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 23:22, 16 February 2006 (GMT)
* I believe that Natives are reborn as Natives and Outsiders are reborn as Outsiders, but I could be wrong. From a game balance perspective, I am not in favor of type-swapping skills unless Natives are presented with an ability to counter or convert Outsiders as well. It does fit nicely with the theme though. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 23:41, 16 February 2006 (GMT)
* That would probably be the shamans job, however it may have worked for Urban Dead but I don't think it will work in this game as whichever group has the most players to begin with will, once conflicts begin to arise, dominate by switching people from the side they are on the side the priest/"whatever the natives use" side making you able to graph one groups population by looking at the graph pop=(1/2)^x. Also since there wouldn't seem to be a way, short of finding a converter player to switch you back, to go back to playing as you once did would make the amount of people on one side quickly die off (even though thats what would happen in real life, favouring the outsiders) it would be a very unfun aspect of the game. And really these are HOSTILE natives, or so it seems, why would they let some devilman outsider tell it how it is? They wouldn't, they would simply spear them and laugh! In short all the converting ideas suck, I know I wouldn't want to log on to find I'm playing for the wrong side. -- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 10:55, 17 February 2006 (GMT)
* So that means if my soldier dies, he's reborn as a native? Not only that, but to become an outsider again, first I would have to find a priest (which would be next to impossible with such a small number of players), and then he could convert me into a settler. That means I'll never be able to be a soldier again, which is a real punch in the throat for RPers. -- Grigoriy
*All valid points. I guess this wouldn't really work we have the same number of players as Urban Dead. But this would be a great way to balance out the sides later on. Say there are too many natives, you just drop more "conversion items" and balance out the sides. Too many Outsiders? Just drop the number of conversion items. Doubt it would catch on though. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 02:44, 19 February 2006 (GMT)
*Conversion doesn't have to be forced.  It could require action on both sides, like a native doning a religious item and an outsider using the skill on that native.  After all, conversion isn't real without true faith. The native counter to this could be similar, requiring an outsider to die holding a packet of that headshrinking powder while a shaman uses the Zombification (ala Haitian witchcraft) skill.  -- frisco
*You don't change class or anything when you die. --[[User:Murk|Murk]] 12:31, 4 March 2006 (GMT)
=== Capturing villages ===
Since this is like some war between Outsiders and Natives I thought this appropriate. If all the (say) Outsiders are killed in York and there are none left, then it becomes a Native village and vice versa. Probably needs harder requirements to capture settlements though. Maybe each side could have one permanent place that can never change hands? --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 03:41, 1 March 2006 (GMT)
:Not sure about this - what about all the idle players within the village? They might "wake up" after a couple of weeks to find they're in enemy territory. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 11:00, 1 March 2006 (GMT)
:You could have it so idle players goto the nearest friendly village-- [[User:Daylan|Daylan]] 02:58, 3 March 2006 (GMT)
:Turf control in a limited AP browser game like this just invites lame zerging behavior. I don't like it. --[[User:Jackel|Jackel]] 00:00, 4 March 2006 (GMT)
:Not villages, perhaps 3x3 square 'forts'? --[[User:Grigoriy|Grigoriy]] 01:10, 4 March 2006 (GMT)
:I do like the idea, but I think Jackel's observation hits a key point. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
:Agreed with Jackel and Lint and Simon. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 13:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT) Additionally:
::* Please don't impose your assumption that Shartak is at heart a "war between Outsiders and Natives" on the rest of us.  That is not the only possible direction in which this game can go.  For example, an Outsider village might turn out to be populated by a trading company that views the other Outsider villages as competitors whose extermination would be good for business, but it could just as easily develop into a peaceful scientific outpost, a pirate haven of drunken debauchery, or a missionary settlement devoted to finding the Natives and learning their language (gotta spread that old time religion).  I believe it would be better to keep the objectives more freeform, and let the players create the course of history. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 13:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
::* On a hopefully more helpful and positive note, one could simulate/approximate capturing a village by amassing an army of suitable size, carving messages of ownership all over the territory of the village in question, killing all members of the village, and repeatedly killing the village shaman so they can't get back as easily. (Ouch. I hope no armchair megalomaniacs out there have been taking notes.) --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 13:32, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
=== Unique skills ===
I think that each class should start off with one unique skill that the others may never aquire. That way it stops all the classes from becoming too generic. For example Settlers could have a "farming" skill, Soldiers could have a "bravery" skill, etc. Or mabey they could just have a attribute like Soldiers have an extra 10% chance of striking the target, Warriors have an extra 10% chance  of finding animals, Settlers have an extra 10% chance of finding an item, Scouts have a 3% chance of recovering 1 HP per AP spent, etc. --[[User:One of many doctors|One of many doctors]] 02:34, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
:I am in favor of this (if it is not in effect currently). We'd have to work out the details to make sure each class is getting their fair share, but something that encourages players to try other classes or team up with other players using different classes for a better playing experience sounds good to me. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
:I am in favor of each class being able to acquire (but not necessarily starting off with) a unique skill or attribute that the others may never acquire. Sounds to me like the kind of thing that would be  unlocked as one's reward for a rite of passage, rather than granted as a right of birth. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 12:53, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
=== Pet System ===
I will combine aspects of the '''Animal''' and '''Pirate''' suggestions and propose a pet system that allows you to tame one of the animals on the island. First, you have to weaken the animal. Then you throw a sphere device at it and shout "SHARTAK SPHERE! GO!" for 1 AP. There's a slight chance that you have captured and tamed the animal. The more powerful the animal, the less success chance. You earn no XP for taming an animal. Players can only have 1 pet at a time. They can release a pet whenever they want. If the owner dies, the pet runs away. Pets have fixed HP, attack, and accuracy based on the type of animal they are (ie. they do not level up or heal, just to keep it simple to design). They follow the player around and only attack when the player attacks. It would be nice if they attacked while you were not playing, but auto-defense mechanisms are unnecessary. Enemy animals randomly determine whether they are attacking the owner or the pet. Other players will have an option for targeting the owner or pet. There is no XP gained for attacking or killing a pet to deter any attempts at farming pet killing (I can't believe we even have to consider preventing such a thing). For added flavor, owners can name their pets. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
:ROTFL. Sounds a bit like Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh (don't worry, I'm not a fan, I have kids that were!).  Perhaps instead of spheres, you could keep the monkeys on a leash, heal a tiger or elephant to make it less likely to attack you, tame deer by feeding them, etc. Some animals like the wild boar would have to be pretty difficult to tame. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:14, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
:I was with you right up until you got to the "sphere device" bit, and I rejoined you afterwards. ;) The rest of your suggestion otherwise seems to be pretty well thought out.  Personally, I'd prefer to attempt to tame the animal into becoming a pet purely by offering it food, rather than "weakening" it by other means.  Especially since food is scarce enough that offering it to an animal would be a real sacrifice and therefore an interesting decision for the player to make. --[[User:Berry|Berry]] 14:49, 7 March 2006 (GMT)
=== Profile Effect Items ===
These are useless baubles that take up 1 unit of a player's inventory space, but if anyone views their profile they will see that the players possesses the item. Using the item won't accomplish anything and merely produce flavor text. However, if a player is in the presence of another player, using the item would show it off. As with all items, there's no way to trade them with other players. We can have eyepatches and peglegs. We can have tribal masks and warpaint. Maybe some clans would require a certain dress code. Maybe they need 30 pieces of flair. I think it provides an outlet for the less serious gamers. Problems: Serious gamers might be plagued with finding such items and dropping them, wasting (in their opinion) AP and Page Hits. Also, arguing over what items fit with the theme of Shartak will be a headache-inducing process. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
=== Unique Item Hunt ===
''Capture the Flag''-ish minigame. Somewhere on the island is a single conch shell item. It can be found by searching anywhere. It takes 1 inventory space and appears when anyone views their profile. When the conch holder is in the presence of other players, flavor text is added to the area description to inform the others that the conch holder is in the area. If the person in possession of the conch drops it, dies, or is idle for more than 5 days, the conch returns to the system. The person who holds the conch the longest gets recognized in the statistics. Killing the conch holder earns special bonus XP. Adept conch holder killers may also be recognized in the statistics. Problems: Someone with multiple characters could take advantage of having the conch on one character and reap the XP and fame with another. There will be a point where a race condition will occur and might result in multiple conches and a broken game. --[[User:Lint|Lint]] 08:40, 5 March 2006 (GMT)
* This kind of thing has been on my ideas list, although this is much more detailed version than the one-liner I had. --[[User:Simon|Simon]] 15:05, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

Revision as of 15:21, 7 March 2006

Suggestions for Shartak are always welcome, although there's no guarantee that anything will be added. Comments on or modifications for any of the suggestions below can be added by editing this page. Please be considerate and don't just remove ideas that you don't like.

Begin a new item with a * and "sign" your suggestions using -- ~~~~ so we know who to blame ;)

Bug reports should go on the Bugs page.

Separate Suggestion Pages

This page was becoming rather unwieldy, so it has been split into separate pages:

To-do list?

Perhaps I should add a to-do list here on the wiki so you can comment/vote on the ideas before they're implemented. Then again, perhaps I shouldn't as this would spoil the surprise ;) Not so much a "things I might do" list like this page but a "things I am going to do" list.

--Simon 14:59, 5 March 2006 (GMT)

I'd say unless your debating whether to implement a change, or are seeking feedback, just make whatever changes you are going to make and only tell us afterward. While I'm sure we are all interested in what might be in the pipeline for Shartak, it creates expectations, and expectations lead to frustration when the ideas you are planning aren't implemented in a timely fashion. Think of a game like Duke Nukem Forever, which created massive backlash among its fans for going through delay after delay. If the game designers had not created the expectation (and being unable to fulfill it), there would be no basis for the fan backlash. --Jackel 02:23, 6 March 2006 (GMT)
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